@Kyno the current meta is currently occupied mostly by characters that are out of balance with the rest of the characters in the game. They are so powerful that almost no other teams can beat them. The majority of my server is mirror matches. Almost no “theorycrafting” going on whatsoever. It’s all a variation of Jedi Knight Revan, Grand Master Yoda, Jolene, Hermit Yoda, Bastilla, and General Kenobi. And the current counter for those teams are what? They are literally characters designed to be counters for those teams. Therefore CG is again trying to create a meta that we are not creating.
Of course we could choose to use other teams, but why would we? Those teams are winning and have been winning for months. And this type of gameplay is going to take over fleet battles as well soon. More and more people are unlocking the original Falcon this week. The top 20 is going to be all Falcons.
I guess my point is that the meta should always be shifting. A meta is created, countered, and then that counter is countered. And that counter is then countered and so on. But that has just stopped happening in this game.
JKR, is the one exception that I was mentioning.
Across the game, he is one of a few metas currently and that will differ from shard to shard.
DR is a counter and is by no means as put of balance as JKR was.
But to that point before JKR came around the second time there were teams in the mix that could win, once he came back everyone switched.
We are getting back to a better balance right now in many shards and swgoh.gg data shows this. We should see more steps in the right direction as events repeat and more comes out. It may not be desirable but it's better then them trying to make a big swing to correct from the last meta.
I hope you are right about balance, but I feel like Darth Malak erased any progress in balance that was created by Darth Revan. If the DR team was a good counter to JKR prior to Darth Malak then why would they need to add what’s arguably the best tank in the game to that team?
But of the % who got DR, only a % of those got malak. We also got the bastilla buff with this introduction.
Either way, malak is not going to make DR another JKR.
This argument is really no different than the first time JKR came around. The arena only seemed balanced because not enough people had JKR. That just means when we get the second coming of DR and then Malak, it will be a new arena setting with all sith empire teams.
The game is not balanced because only a few people got unique characters. The problems those characters bring to the game are just hidden.
I don’t like (but I get) the argument that whales feed this game, but let’s not pretend like this power creep is not making old characters irrelevant.
Last time I played TW, Ship arena, GA, and TB, I didn't realize I could win just because I have 1-2 characters because they are new, but i guess we all play a different game. There is more to the game than arena.
or maybe we can not pretend that there is no diversity.
I am not calling this balanced, but diverse. which is not what we had before.
Ship arena = Han’s falcon and then everyone else. I seem to remember a thread about how han’s Falcon and JKR killed diversity in the arenas.
TW = aren’t there multiple threads where people complaining about the new buffs in here? But sure TW prizes are roughly equivalent to daily top 5 in arena
GA = my last 2 GA came down to 2 matches as many have (my CLS team against JKR and My JKR against Traya). If I lost either battle, I lose the match regardless of all other battles and using the entire rest of my roster to try to finish off those teams. Thank God my opponent didn’t have Darth Revan and Malak or I could have just sat those matches out.
TB = yea I’ll give you that one.
I’m not saying and never did say that arena is the only part of this game. I just don’t see how one of the two best teams in the game getting the new best tank is going to create a diverse game as you discussed before. And the upcoming changes to Malak only further my point...scratch EP off this list.
Scuttlebutt exactly this! Too many characters have become irrelevant. They are still good characters but they can't keep up with the power creep. So it makes me think that CG is controlling the meta and not us.
I am going to say two true things.
At max gear and zetas with equal mods, Nightsisters can face a Jedi Knight Revan team as equals and win a substantial portion of the time.
At max gear and zetas with equal mods, Phoenix squad with Sabine can face Nightsisters and win a substantial portion of the time.
That should be telling about the state of power creep and balance in the game. People love complaining about it, but new characters skew more anti-meta than strictly more power. They seem more amazing because the first thing they're thrown against is the thing they're targeted against.
What's more, in a mode like GA, where you need to worry about the outcome of fourteen fights with fourteen completely independent teams, the new hotness has a much more limited impact.
Lol. "We define the meta." Yeah, and then they change the kits so we can't. META means "most effective." When you are slooooow it's "most effective" to run Palpatine lead with Sith Assassin. So they defined that meta out of existence. Like the little baby rich kid that takes his ball and goes home when he starts losing to the smart puny kid with strategy.
@Kyno the current meta is currently occupied mostly by characters that are out of balance with the rest of the characters in the game. They are so powerful that almost no other teams can beat them. The majority of my server is mirror matches. Almost no “theorycrafting” going on whatsoever. It’s all a variation of Jedi Knight Revan, Grand Master Yoda, Jolene, Hermit Yoda, Bastilla, and General Kenobi. And the current counter for those teams are what? They are literally characters designed to be counters for those teams. Therefore CG is again trying to create a meta that we are not creating.
Of course we could choose to use other teams, but why would we? Those teams are winning and have been winning for months. And this type of gameplay is going to take over fleet battles as well soon. More and more people are unlocking the original Falcon this week. The top 20 is going to be all Falcons.
I guess my point is that the meta should always be shifting. A meta is created, countered, and then that counter is countered. And that counter is then countered and so on. But that has just stopped happening in this game.
JKR, is the one exception that I was mentioning.
Across the game, he is one of a few metas currently and that will differ from shard to shard.
DR is a counter and is by no means as put of balance as JKR was.
But to that point before JKR came around the second time there were teams in the mix that could win, once he came back everyone switched.
We are getting back to a better balance right now in many shards and swgoh.gg data shows this. We should see more steps in the right direction as events repeat and more comes out. It may not be desirable but it's better then them trying to make a big swing to correct from the last meta.
I hope you are right about balance, but I feel like Darth Malak erased any progress in balance that was created by Darth Revan. If the DR team was a good counter to JKR prior to Darth Malak then why would they need to add what’s arguably the best tank in the game to that team?
But of the % who got DR, only a % of those got malak. We also got the bastilla buff with this introduction.
Either way, malak is not going to make DR another JKR.
This argument is really no different than the first time JKR came around. The arena only seemed balanced because not enough people had JKR. That just means when we get the second coming of DR and then Malak, it will be a new arena setting with all sith empire teams.
The game is not balanced because only a few people got unique characters. The problems those characters bring to the game are just hidden.
I don’t like (but I get) the argument that whales feed this game, but let’s not pretend like this power creep is not making old characters irrelevant.
Last time I played TW, Ship arena, GA, and TB, I didn't realize I could win just because I have 1-2 characters because they are new, but i guess we all play a different game. There is more to the game than arena.
or maybe we can not pretend that there is no diversity.
I am not calling this balanced, but diverse. which is not what we had before.
Well tbf once the malak changes take effect palp will be gone from the meta so lets not act like cg wants diversity.
with the change to Malak, CG has just defined the meta. (only speed will win, but now also a bunch of heroes you just geared up are useless)
it is so ridiculous, because the 'sith empire' also carry the 'sith' tag, and this is directly nerfing the dr team, for no good reason. sith assassin giving turn meter to team? not any more?? you've got to be kidding me CG!!
your new tooltip description for Malak's rework ability says "excluding raid bosses" ..it should also exclude 'sith empire'. this is completely bogus.
it is bad enough we have a speed meta where CBM will destroy a slow team. (by slow i mean 1 less speed)
and now we get gnawing terror that destroys mirrors that use tm gain heroes within the very faction...
outstanding!
No Malak is not going to make DR another JKR, that will happen because CG has effectively neutered the counter that is a Palpatine and so by default we return to the meta being dominated by the old republic....again.
Sad when you have to use someone else's game to prop yours up. This tired old thing is on its last legs, or at least we can hope.
There are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn’t mean power creep isn’t making older characters irrelevant.
Pick any 5 characters to use for your arena team for the next month. Were most of all of those toons released in the last 12 months?
Fill 6 teams for GA. Were most or all of those toons release in the last 24 months?
Twenty-four months is an insane metric. That is literally over half the life of the game. You are asking if most of the characters I choose were released during most of the game's run. Phoenix squad barely makes that cut. R2 does not.
My arena team right now is JKR, Bastila, Jolee, GK, and Grandmaster Yoda. Kenobi and Yoda are both very old units. The rest are literally a new faction, and are designed to go together.
Going down my saved squads for my top GA staples, aside from my arena team?
Resistance. JTR, R2, BB-8, Rose, Holdo. All over a year.
Nightsisters. Asajj, Talzin, Daka, Zombie, Talia. All over a year, most over two.
Thrawntroopers. Thrawn, Veers, Starck, Stormtrooper, and a rotating fifth ranger between Deathtrooper, Magmatrooper, and Snowtrooper. Starck and Thrawn are over a year old. The rest are over two years old. For the purposes of this conversation, we'll say Deathtrooper is the fifth ranger, but all three are over two years old.
Hunters. Bossk, Boba, Dengar, Cad, Greedo. The four OG hunters are over two years, most of them launch toons, and Bossk is under a year.
Phoenix, all over two years. Hera, Sabine, Kanan, Chopper, Zeb.
Doing the tally, out of those thirty characters, GK, GMY, Asajj, Daka, Talia, Veers, Deathtrooper, Stormtrooper, Greedo, Cad, Boba Fett, Dengar, Hera, Zeb, Kanan, Chopper, and Sabine. Seventeen units over two years old, out of thirty characters. And only four- Revan, Bastila, Jolee, and Bossk- under a year old.
This isn't me manipulating things to prove a point. These are six of my most trusted, tried and true teams that win me battles in most modes of the game. Of the six, four of them have been my arena team at some point.
And that Phoenix squad can beat a coherent team that can beat Revan is not a fluke, or an exception. Nor is it me saying power creep does not exist.
Power creep does exist. And that is fine. It is necessary in the same way inflation is necessary in an economy. It allows for growth and development. Without some amount of power creep, the game stagnates.
What I am saying is that power creep does not exist in the manner you state; of a succession of "godlike" new toons. No, most of that "godlike" power is actually anti-meta and tighter synergies, rather than anything more than an incremental step up in power. This is why many teams who are not the direct target of antimeta often stick around for a long time. Nightsisters were a staple of the leaderboards through, like, six metas. They were ousted less because they couldn't keep up, and more because people were tired of fighting Revans. And I don't know if we're done seeing them on top. Rex was a staple of the leaderboards through eight metas, maybe more, and for a long time was considered a forever lead.
What's more, #1 in arena is a terrible metric for the state of the game. Most games have a solved state. The top end, high spotlight play is where you will generally see the most homogenized, solved play. What's more, you only need five units to participate in arena. The common toons at the top will only ever be a pretty short list.
Territory War and Grand Arena are much more indicative of the state of the game, and the state of game balance, where there's more breathing room and developing efficient tactics to take down the nominal "best" teams becomes important, and more tools get a chance to shine.
There are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn’t mean power creep isn’t making older characters irrelevant.
Pick any 5 characters to use for your arena team for the next month. Were most of all of those toons released in the last 12 months?
Fill 6 teams for GA. Were most or all of those toons release in the last 24 months?
Twenty-four months is an insane metric. That is literally over half the life of the game. You are asking if most of the characters I choose were released during most of the game's run. Phoenix squad barely makes that cut. R2 does not.
My arena team right now is JKR, Bastila, Jolee, GK, and Grandmaster Yoda. Kenobi and Yoda are both very old units. The rest are literally a new faction, and are designed to go together.
Going down my saved squads for my top GA staples, aside from my arena team?
Resistance. JTR, R2, BB-8, Rose, Holdo. All over a year.
Nightsisters. Asajj, Talzin, Daka, Zombie, Talia. All over a year, most over two.
Thrawntroopers. Thrawn, Veers, Starck, Stormtrooper, and a rotating fifth ranger between Deathtrooper, Magmatrooper, and Snowtrooper. Starck and Thrawn are over a year old. The rest are over two years old. For the purposes of this conversation, we'll say Deathtrooper is the fifth ranger, but all three are over two years old.
Hunters. Bossk, Boba, Dengar, Cad, Greedo. The four OG hunters are over two years, most of them launch toons, and Bossk is under a year.
Phoenix, all over two years. Hera, Sabine, Kanan, Chopper, Zeb.
Doing the tally, out of those thirty characters, GK, GMY, Asajj, Daka, Talia, Veers, Deathtrooper, Stormtrooper, Greedo, Cad, Boba Fett, Dengar, Hera, Zeb, Kanan, Chopper, and Sabine. Seventeen units over two years old, out of thirty characters. And only four- Revan, Bastila, Jolee, and Bossk- under a year old.
This isn't me manipulating things to prove a point. These are six of my most trusted, tried and true teams that win me battles in most modes of the game. Of the six, four of them have been my arena team at some point.
And that Phoenix squad can beat a coherent team that can beat Revan is not a fluke, or an exception. Nor is it me saying power creep does not exist.
Power creep does exist. And that is fine. It is necessary in the same way inflation is necessary in an economy. It allows for growth and development. Without some amount of power creep, the game stagnates.
What I am saying is that power creep does not exist in the manner you state; of a succession of "godlike" new toons. No, most of that "godlike" power is actually anti-meta and tighter synergies, rather than anything more than an incremental step up in power. This is why many teams who are not the direct target of antimeta often stick around for a long time. Nightsisters were a staple of the leaderboards through, like, six metas. They were ousted less because they couldn't keep up, and more because people were tired of fighting Revans. And I don't know if we're done seeing them on top. Rex was a staple of the leaderboards through eight metas, maybe more, and for a long time was considered a forever lead.
What's more, #1 in arena is a terrible metric for the state of the game. Most games have a solved state. The top end, high spotlight play is where you will generally see the most homogenized, solved play. What's more, you only need five units to participate in arena. The common toons at the top will only ever be a pretty short list.
Territory War and Grand Arena are much more indicative of the state of the game, and the state of game balance, where there's more breathing room and developing efficient tactics to take down the nominal "best" teams becomes important, and more tools get a chance to shine.
I didn’t ask who you use for GA. I asked you to pick from the entire character pool. If that’s your picks, I would gladly like to face you in GA with my picks.
No Darth Revan with his HK, FBS, Malak + 1 other?
You didn’t list the team specifically but I’m guessing you had JKR in there. If not, why not?
No scoundrels with Nest?
No sith triumvirate?
I too use many of the characters you listed but it’s not because I think they are better than newer characters. I use them because I previously geared them so that’s cheaper than acquiring and gearing new guys.
And arena is absolutely relevant to this discussion since that’s where the OP started. If you pick anything other JKR or DR then you would struggle to stay in the top 500 in my shard. Not many people would take a fall from top 30 to top 1000 just to show that older toons are still relevant.
I didn’t ask who you use for GA. I asked you to pick from the entire character pool. If that’s your picks, I would gladly like to face you in GA with my picks.
No Darth Revan with his HK, FBS, Malak + 1 other?
You didn’t list the team specifically but I’m guessing you had JKR in there. If not, why not?
No scoundrels with Nest?
No sith triumvirate?
I too use many of the characters you listed but it’s not because I think they are better than newer characters. I use them because I previously geared them so that’s cheaper than acquiring and gearing new guys.
And arena is absolutely relevant to this discussion since that’s where the OP started. If you pick anything other JKR or DR then you would struggle to stay in the top 500 in my shard. Not many people would take a fall from top 30 to top 1000 just to show that older toons are still relevant.
You asked for six teams, you got them. Depending on the GA mode that's only half of what's used, rest could be saved for offense. Here it comes down to strategy, one of them is to deploy mediocre teams and go all in for max banners on offense. I won my last GA with it so it can't be that bad.
So what's the point of asking for current meta teams? You need to be right that badly with your assumption?
"Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid."
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
I didn’t ask who you use for GA. I asked you to pick from the entire character pool. If that’s your picks, I would gladly like to face you in GA with my picks.
No Darth Revan with his HK, FBS, Malak + 1 other?
You didn’t list the team specifically but I’m guessing you had JKR in there. If not, why not?
No scoundrels with Nest?
No sith triumvirate?
I too use many of the characters you listed but it’s not because I think they are better than newer characters. I use them because I previously geared them so that’s cheaper than acquiring and gearing new guys.
And arena is absolutely relevant to this discussion since that’s where the OP started. If you pick anything other JKR or DR then you would struggle to stay in the top 500 in my shard. Not many people would take a fall from top 30 to top 1000 just to show that older toons are still relevant.
You asked for six teams, you got them. Depending on the GA mode that's only half of what's used, rest could be saved for offense. Here it comes down to strategy, one of them is to deploy mediocre teams and go all in for max banners on offense. I won my last GA with it so it can't be that bad.
So what's the point of asking for current meta teams? You need to be right that badly with your assumption?
You here to contribute to this conversation or make personal attacks?
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
I think people choose to use them because they provide the greatest chance for the highest rewards. Feel free to use older toons and test the climb to the top against newer toons.
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
Im saying if everyone one not a few or just me
Again, why would everyone/anyone make that decision if there is a more efficient squad out there?
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
Im saying if everyone one not a few or just me
Again, why would everyone/anyone make that decision if there is a more efficient squad out there?
To not allow cg/ea to dictate the meta as a way to rebel against current meta
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
Im saying if everyone one not a few or just me
Again, why would everyone/anyone make that decision if there is a more efficient squad out there?
To not allow cg/ea to dictate the meta as a way to rebel against current meta
I would love it if the top 50 or top 100 in my shard stopped using DR, JKR and Traya. At the very least it would let me move from top 200 to top 100. If I did really well, I’d move into the top 20.
Then I’d use all those extra crystals to invest in the new meta team that comes out later this year. Not because their new but because I would get the new team that makes Traya and possibly JKR irrelevant.
I would say the meta is defined by the players u dont have to use jkr, dr, traya. meta is just what the majority of players are using towards the top so if they all swapped to cls that would be the meta not jkr or dr they are cause they are good.
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
Im saying if everyone one not a few or just me
Again, why would everyone/anyone make that decision if there is a more efficient squad out there?
To not allow cg/ea to dictate the meta as a way to rebel against current meta
If this game was 110% free to play, I'd agree with that. But that just isn't the case. Especially after people spending thousands of dollars on new characters to be/stay at the top. I don't have meta squads, and won't anytime soon. I'm just gonna play at my own pace and be frustrated by being 15 squads behind the 8 ball since I haven't been playing since day 1.
You here to contribute to this conversation or make personal attacks?
I'm totally in it but you ignored my question: What is your point in asking for these specific characters/teams?
Even if somebody uses them that doesn't mean that they're needed for anything or are meta defining. It looks more like you try to lure into a direction where you can say 'I told you!' in the end to proof your point which results in my stated 'You need to be right badly'. I don't want to make personal attacks, i'm just curious and ask you. Tell us, what's the point?
"Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid."
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
You here to contribute to this conversation or make personal attacks?
I'm totally in it but you ignored my question: What is your point in asking for these specific characters/teams?
Even if somebody uses them that doesn't mean that they're needed for anything or are meta defining. It looks more like you try to lure into a direction where you can say 'I told you!' in the end to proof your point which results in my stated 'You need to be right badly'. I don't want to make personal attacks, i'm just curious and ask you. Tell us, what's the point?
I ignored your question because of the second question that followed. If you stop these “you need to be right” type comments, and ask something intelligent, I might consider responding to you.
Otherwise, read my comments and get what you want from them.
I would love it if the top 50 or top 100 in my shard stopped using DR, JKR and Traya. At the very least it would let me move from top 200 to top 100. If I did really well, I’d move into the top 20.
Then I’d use all those extra crystals to invest in the new meta team that comes out later this year. Not because their new but because I would get the new team that makes Traya and possibly JKR irrelevant.
Replies
Ship arena = Han’s falcon and then everyone else. I seem to remember a thread about how han’s Falcon and JKR killed diversity in the arenas.
TW = aren’t there multiple threads where people complaining about the new buffs in here? But sure TW prizes are roughly equivalent to daily top 5 in arena
GA = my last 2 GA came down to 2 matches as many have (my CLS team against JKR and My JKR against Traya). If I lost either battle, I lose the match regardless of all other battles and using the entire rest of my roster to try to finish off those teams. Thank God my opponent didn’t have Darth Revan and Malak or I could have just sat those matches out.
TB = yea I’ll give you that one.
I’m not saying and never did say that arena is the only part of this game. I just don’t see how one of the two best teams in the game getting the new best tank is going to create a diverse game as you discussed before. And the upcoming changes to Malak only further my point...scratch EP off this list.
There are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn’t mean power creep isn’t making older characters irrelevant.
Pick any 5 characters to use for your arena team for the next month. Were most of all of those toons released in the last 12 months?
Fill 6 teams for GA. Were most or all of those toons release in the last 24 months?
Well said.
it is so ridiculous, because the 'sith empire' also carry the 'sith' tag, and this is directly nerfing the dr team, for no good reason. sith assassin giving turn meter to team? not any more?? you've got to be kidding me CG!!
your new tooltip description for Malak's rework ability says "excluding raid bosses" ..it should also exclude 'sith empire'. this is completely bogus.
it is bad enough we have a speed meta where CBM will destroy a slow team. (by slow i mean 1 less speed)
and now we get gnawing terror that destroys mirrors that use tm gain heroes within the very faction...
outstanding!
Sad when you have to use someone else's game to prop yours up. This tired old thing is on its last legs, or at least we can hope.
My arena team right now is JKR, Bastila, Jolee, GK, and Grandmaster Yoda. Kenobi and Yoda are both very old units. The rest are literally a new faction, and are designed to go together.
Going down my saved squads for my top GA staples, aside from my arena team?
Resistance. JTR, R2, BB-8, Rose, Holdo. All over a year.
Nightsisters. Asajj, Talzin, Daka, Zombie, Talia. All over a year, most over two.
Thrawntroopers. Thrawn, Veers, Starck, Stormtrooper, and a rotating fifth ranger between Deathtrooper, Magmatrooper, and Snowtrooper. Starck and Thrawn are over a year old. The rest are over two years old. For the purposes of this conversation, we'll say Deathtrooper is the fifth ranger, but all three are over two years old.
Hunters. Bossk, Boba, Dengar, Cad, Greedo. The four OG hunters are over two years, most of them launch toons, and Bossk is under a year.
Phoenix, all over two years. Hera, Sabine, Kanan, Chopper, Zeb.
Doing the tally, out of those thirty characters, GK, GMY, Asajj, Daka, Talia, Veers, Deathtrooper, Stormtrooper, Greedo, Cad, Boba Fett, Dengar, Hera, Zeb, Kanan, Chopper, and Sabine. Seventeen units over two years old, out of thirty characters. And only four- Revan, Bastila, Jolee, and Bossk- under a year old.
This isn't me manipulating things to prove a point. These are six of my most trusted, tried and true teams that win me battles in most modes of the game. Of the six, four of them have been my arena team at some point.
And that Phoenix squad can beat a coherent team that can beat Revan is not a fluke, or an exception. Nor is it me saying power creep does not exist.
Power creep does exist. And that is fine. It is necessary in the same way inflation is necessary in an economy. It allows for growth and development. Without some amount of power creep, the game stagnates.
What I am saying is that power creep does not exist in the manner you state; of a succession of "godlike" new toons. No, most of that "godlike" power is actually anti-meta and tighter synergies, rather than anything more than an incremental step up in power. This is why many teams who are not the direct target of antimeta often stick around for a long time. Nightsisters were a staple of the leaderboards through, like, six metas. They were ousted less because they couldn't keep up, and more because people were tired of fighting Revans. And I don't know if we're done seeing them on top. Rex was a staple of the leaderboards through eight metas, maybe more, and for a long time was considered a forever lead.
What's more, #1 in arena is a terrible metric for the state of the game. Most games have a solved state. The top end, high spotlight play is where you will generally see the most homogenized, solved play. What's more, you only need five units to participate in arena. The common toons at the top will only ever be a pretty short list.
Territory War and Grand Arena are much more indicative of the state of the game, and the state of game balance, where there's more breathing room and developing efficient tactics to take down the nominal "best" teams becomes important, and more tools get a chance to shine.
I didn’t ask who you use for GA. I asked you to pick from the entire character pool. If that’s your picks, I would gladly like to face you in GA with my picks.
No Darth Revan with his HK, FBS, Malak + 1 other?
You didn’t list the team specifically but I’m guessing you had JKR in there. If not, why not?
No scoundrels with Nest?
No sith triumvirate?
I too use many of the characters you listed but it’s not because I think they are better than newer characters. I use them because I previously geared them so that’s cheaper than acquiring and gearing new guys.
And arena is absolutely relevant to this discussion since that’s where the OP started. If you pick anything other JKR or DR then you would struggle to stay in the top 500 in my shard. Not many people would take a fall from top 30 to top 1000 just to show that older toons are still relevant.
You asked for six teams, you got them. Depending on the GA mode that's only half of what's used, rest could be saved for offense. Here it comes down to strategy, one of them is to deploy mediocre teams and go all in for max banners on offense. I won my last GA with it so it can't be that bad.
So what's the point of asking for current meta teams? You need to be right that badly with your assumption?
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
You here to contribute to this conversation or make personal attacks?
That would be true if the developers created even kits across the board. But, since they create the kits with new and more powerful abilities, they define the meta. The players just follow their breadcrumbs like Hansel & Gretel.
Yes but we choose to follow it cause it is new and we want to use it but thats our choice to use them
I think people choose to use them because they provide the greatest chance for the highest rewards. Feel free to use older toons and test the climb to the top against newer toons.
But do we really have a choice, full well knowing there are more powerful squads to use? No.
Yes but u decided to use it everyone could just not use jkr/dr or any new teams and stike to cls jtr traya ect if they wanted and that would be the meta then
Lol, go ahead and try to survive in your arena with JTR...
Im saying if everyone one not a few or just me
Again, why would everyone/anyone make that decision if there is a more efficient squad out there?
To not allow cg/ea to dictate the meta as a way to rebel against current meta
I would love it if the top 50 or top 100 in my shard stopped using DR, JKR and Traya. At the very least it would let me move from top 200 to top 100. If I did really well, I’d move into the top 20.
Then I’d use all those extra crystals to invest in the new meta team that comes out later this year. Not because their new but because I would get the new team that makes Traya and possibly JKR irrelevant.
If this game was 110% free to play, I'd agree with that. But that just isn't the case. Especially after people spending thousands of dollars on new characters to be/stay at the top. I don't have meta squads, and won't anytime soon. I'm just gonna play at my own pace and be frustrated by being 15 squads behind the 8 ball since I haven't been playing since day 1.
I'm totally in it but you ignored my question: What is your point in asking for these specific characters/teams?
Even if somebody uses them that doesn't mean that they're needed for anything or are meta defining. It looks more like you try to lure into a direction where you can say 'I told you!' in the end to proof your point which results in my stated 'You need to be right badly'. I don't want to make personal attacks, i'm just curious and ask you. Tell us, what's the point?
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
I ignored your question because of the second question that followed. If you stop these “you need to be right” type comments, and ask something intelligent, I might consider responding to you.
Otherwise, read my comments and get what you want from them.
I do.
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
Link to the referred reddit page in the video:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/bc90mk/i_work_in_analytics_and_am_shocked_at_the/