#MakeFinnGreatAgain (for PvP)
TL;DR - zFinn after the rework is nowhere near as viable in PvP as he was before, despite how CG originally claimed that he would be. To make up for this, CG can make zFinn viable in PvP again by 1) further tweaking his leadership to have a higher percentage TM gain and reduction; 2) buff Poe, RP, and maybe RT; and/or 3) introduce a new Resistance toon (or two) that does AoE expose and damage.
From this post and my original zFinn post (first link below), you can see how avid of a fan I am of the zFinn Resistance squad. In that light, it's hard to adequately explain how frustrated I am that the worries I expressed in that post were realized. He sucks in PvP. I could previously get through KRU-led FO, Bossk BH, Ewoks, and a bunch more teams with no sweat with my zFinn squad. They were by no means overpowered - prior to 3PO they still couldn't handle the meta teams - CLS, Revan, JTR, Bastila, EP, or Traya. They were a good niche squad for TW and GA. And yet, once 3PO came out and introduced the loop, instead of fixing what created the problem (3PO's kit), CG decided to nerf Finn's leadership, something that had been working just fine as intended for so long. Heck, I would have been fine with the change as long as it had accomplished what they claimed - kept him viable for PvP. But nope, didn't happen. I just lost my most recent GA match because they couldn't handle an Ewok squad that previously they would have owned with full health and protection. I've also lost against multiple FO teams that would have provided little issue previously.
Yes, I decided to re-apply his zeta after getting it refunded, which was my choice. However, consider the following:
1) Without putting his zeta back on, that meant that my fully geared Poe (g12+2) and RP (g11+5) would turn into useless characters collecting dust on my roster and inflating my GP. I'm at 3.6M GP, and having one fewer viable team to use on offense for GA really hurts. Now, if CG had agreed to refund Finn's zeta AND all the gear/credits/etc. to get him, Poe, and RP up to scratch, then it would have been a no-brainer. I would have spent the refunded materials on a more sure bet. Obviously they weren't going to do that, though.
2) CG's original announcement of the zFinn rework (2nd link below) stated that he would remain viable in PvP. They even specifically call out being able to beat KRU-led FO.
3) CG's follow-up announcement on the rework (3rd link below) was very generic and did nothing to dissuade me from the notion that he would still be viable in PvP. All they said was that the changes "impacted Finn's core identity," so they were refunding the leadership zeta. However, when you compared the updated rework to the original rework, the changes actually IMPROVED his PvP viability. Yes, the ramping damage got capped, but in most situations, you won't have time to ramp it up enough anyway. The leadership actually got better by increasing the TM gain and TM reduction based on the number of exposes. So the theory is that if his original rework maintained his PvP viability vs squads like FO, the updated rework should do so even more. Sadly, that did not end up being the case.
I would love to hear of situations where people can still beat evenly-modded/geared FO and BH squads as consistently as before, but I honestly doubt those situations exist. Previously, as long as my Poe was fastest (I made sure to mod him for tons of speed) and everyone else was modded for potency, my win rate was probably 90-95% vs. FO and 80-85% vs. BH (less due to their added tenacity). Now, I'm guessing it would be closer to the 10-20% range, although I don't have a big enough sample size yet, and would prefer to not have to keep losing to prove that out. Even after revisiting mods to make the team speedier, I just don't see it happening.
My plea to the CG powers that be is to make zFinn great again (in PvP) through one of the following changes (I get that the rework is done and they're not going back to where they were before):
1) Revise Finn's leadership further to improve on the TM gain and reduction. The loop has already been resolved by scaling to the number of Resistance toons, and only applying when a Resistance toon attacks.
2) Buff Poe, RP, and maybe RT. This could potentially represent an added healing component, more tankiness for Poe, and a higher expose chance for all 3. Those are just some of many options.
3) Introduce a new Resistance toon (or two) that does an AoE expose AND damage. I get that Episode IX is coming up in December, but it would be nice to not have to wait until then....
It should be noted that, yes, he is better in PvE situations now with a JTR lead. However, the small incremental amount of damage I get in P1 of HSTR by subbing him for RT doesn't even come close to compensating for having one fewer effective GA team on offense AND the now useless toons (Poe and RP) in my roster that are artificially inflating my GP and matching me up against tougher GA opponents.
Mt last comment is to those who think this is justified because other toons have lost their viability over time (e.g. clones). To that I say that you're comparing apples and Chihuahuas. It's ridiculous to say I shouldn't complain about an entire squad losing its PvP viability overnight, just because other squads have gradually become obsolete due to power creep. With the latter, at least I have time to gear up the newer meta characters/squads to replace the old ones; plus the old toons/squads are still working as intended - you're getting exactly what you spent all that time and resources to get. In this situation, I geared up zFinn Resistance team specifically because of the viability his leadership offered in PvP scenarios - now, that's gone. They may have offered a zeta refund, but that's not going to get me back the resources and time I spent on them, that I would have spent on a different team had I known how all this garbage would play out.
My original reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/ash8m9/my_zfinn_story_and_why_the_zeta_refund_isnt_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Original announcement link:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/195609/update-on-the-finn-threepio-raid-interaction-resulting-finn-modifications#latest
Follow-up announcement link:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/199463/update-on-zfinn-changes-coming-next-update
From this post and my original zFinn post (first link below), you can see how avid of a fan I am of the zFinn Resistance squad. In that light, it's hard to adequately explain how frustrated I am that the worries I expressed in that post were realized. He sucks in PvP. I could previously get through KRU-led FO, Bossk BH, Ewoks, and a bunch more teams with no sweat with my zFinn squad. They were by no means overpowered - prior to 3PO they still couldn't handle the meta teams - CLS, Revan, JTR, Bastila, EP, or Traya. They were a good niche squad for TW and GA. And yet, once 3PO came out and introduced the loop, instead of fixing what created the problem (3PO's kit), CG decided to nerf Finn's leadership, something that had been working just fine as intended for so long. Heck, I would have been fine with the change as long as it had accomplished what they claimed - kept him viable for PvP. But nope, didn't happen. I just lost my most recent GA match because they couldn't handle an Ewok squad that previously they would have owned with full health and protection. I've also lost against multiple FO teams that would have provided little issue previously.
Yes, I decided to re-apply his zeta after getting it refunded, which was my choice. However, consider the following:
1) Without putting his zeta back on, that meant that my fully geared Poe (g12+2) and RP (g11+5) would turn into useless characters collecting dust on my roster and inflating my GP. I'm at 3.6M GP, and having one fewer viable team to use on offense for GA really hurts. Now, if CG had agreed to refund Finn's zeta AND all the gear/credits/etc. to get him, Poe, and RP up to scratch, then it would have been a no-brainer. I would have spent the refunded materials on a more sure bet. Obviously they weren't going to do that, though.
2) CG's original announcement of the zFinn rework (2nd link below) stated that he would remain viable in PvP. They even specifically call out being able to beat KRU-led FO.
3) CG's follow-up announcement on the rework (3rd link below) was very generic and did nothing to dissuade me from the notion that he would still be viable in PvP. All they said was that the changes "impacted Finn's core identity," so they were refunding the leadership zeta. However, when you compared the updated rework to the original rework, the changes actually IMPROVED his PvP viability. Yes, the ramping damage got capped, but in most situations, you won't have time to ramp it up enough anyway. The leadership actually got better by increasing the TM gain and TM reduction based on the number of exposes. So the theory is that if his original rework maintained his PvP viability vs squads like FO, the updated rework should do so even more. Sadly, that did not end up being the case.
I would love to hear of situations where people can still beat evenly-modded/geared FO and BH squads as consistently as before, but I honestly doubt those situations exist. Previously, as long as my Poe was fastest (I made sure to mod him for tons of speed) and everyone else was modded for potency, my win rate was probably 90-95% vs. FO and 80-85% vs. BH (less due to their added tenacity). Now, I'm guessing it would be closer to the 10-20% range, although I don't have a big enough sample size yet, and would prefer to not have to keep losing to prove that out. Even after revisiting mods to make the team speedier, I just don't see it happening.
My plea to the CG powers that be is to make zFinn great again (in PvP) through one of the following changes (I get that the rework is done and they're not going back to where they were before):
1) Revise Finn's leadership further to improve on the TM gain and reduction. The loop has already been resolved by scaling to the number of Resistance toons, and only applying when a Resistance toon attacks.
2) Buff Poe, RP, and maybe RT. This could potentially represent an added healing component, more tankiness for Poe, and a higher expose chance for all 3. Those are just some of many options.
3) Introduce a new Resistance toon (or two) that does an AoE expose AND damage. I get that Episode IX is coming up in December, but it would be nice to not have to wait until then....
It should be noted that, yes, he is better in PvE situations now with a JTR lead. However, the small incremental amount of damage I get in P1 of HSTR by subbing him for RT doesn't even come close to compensating for having one fewer effective GA team on offense AND the now useless toons (Poe and RP) in my roster that are artificially inflating my GP and matching me up against tougher GA opponents.
Mt last comment is to those who think this is justified because other toons have lost their viability over time (e.g. clones). To that I say that you're comparing apples and Chihuahuas. It's ridiculous to say I shouldn't complain about an entire squad losing its PvP viability overnight, just because other squads have gradually become obsolete due to power creep. With the latter, at least I have time to gear up the newer meta characters/squads to replace the old ones; plus the old toons/squads are still working as intended - you're getting exactly what you spent all that time and resources to get. In this situation, I geared up zFinn Resistance team specifically because of the viability his leadership offered in PvP scenarios - now, that's gone. They may have offered a zeta refund, but that's not going to get me back the resources and time I spent on them, that I would have spent on a different team had I known how all this garbage would play out.
My original reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/ash8m9/my_zfinn_story_and_why_the_zeta_refund_isnt_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Original announcement link:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/195609/update-on-the-finn-threepio-raid-interaction-resulting-finn-modifications#latest
Follow-up announcement link:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/199463/update-on-zfinn-changes-coming-next-update
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