How can you reconcile Anakin with Carrie's statements?

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Draeth
33 posts Member
edited April 2019
Regardless of what you think about Carrie's statements on Twitter, she said what she said: Malak was a reward for spenders to get the exclusivity they wanted and reap an advantage from it.

So... How, in that context, does reworking Anakin to do 100k damage AoEs under Jedi Revan lead, wiping out the entire Darth Revan + Malak team in one hit, make any sense? At all?

Replies

  • Gannon
    1619 posts Member
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.
  • Draeth
    33 posts Member
    edited April 2019
    Gannon wrote: »
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.

    They increased the damage bonus of Righteous Fury, gave him Offense Up, and increased the damage ratios on his abilities (which is invisible in the text description) significantly. There are videos all over YouTube.
  • Draeth wrote: »
    Regardless of what you think about Carrie's statements on Twitter, she said what she said: Malak was a reward for spenders to get the exclusivity they wanted and reap an advantage from it.

    So... How, in that context, does reworking Anakin to do 100k damage AoEs under Jedi Revan lead, wiping out the entire Darth Revan + Malak team in one hit, make any sense? At all?

    It’s pretty ridiculous. They do this to themselves. I’m pretty sure if you asked ANYONE who gets top 10 in arena what the first thing they should test when doing the Anankin rework, everyone would have said “how he performs in a JKR team.” How they could have possibly missed that he will destroy DR teams is mind boggling, which leads me to believe it must have been intentional. If it was intentional, you’ve just told your community there is no point on spending money to get new heroes journey characters because they may be easily countered by F2P characters.
  • Gannon
    1619 posts Member
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.

    They increased the damage bonus of Righteous Fury, gave him Offense Up, and increased the damage ratios on his abilities (which is invisible in the text description) significantly. There are videos all over YouTube.

    I don't have a **** or clip of the old upgrade values, but the aoe damage (+50 in upgrades) looks the same to me as before. Offense up was there before, but was a chance.
    I do see the extra 25% damage increase to fury tho, but I don't get how a 25% increase makes that big of a difference, as it isn't going to trigger very often.
    I've use him under bast before revan tho and nearly one shot enemy teams..
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    Malak is still exclusive. Those who have Malak still have an advantage. He's just not the only show in town, and he shouldn't be.
    Still not a he.
  • Draeth
    33 posts Member
    edited April 2019
    Gannon wrote: »
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.

    They increased the damage bonus of Righteous Fury, gave him Offense Up, and increased the damage ratios on his abilities (which is invisible in the text description) significantly. There are videos all over YouTube.

    I don't have a **** or clip of the old upgrade values, but the aoe damage (+50 in upgrades) looks the same to me as before. Offense up was there before, but was a chance.
    I do see the extra 25% damage increase to fury tho, but I don't get how a 25% increase makes that big of a difference, as it isn't going to trigger very often.
    I've use him under bast before revan tho and nearly one shot enemy teams..

    Again, the damage ratios of abilities is not visible in the text of the game. They are hidden values you can read on swgoh.gg and you can easily verify this by watching the videos on every SWGOH YouTube channel.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Malak is still exclusive. Those who have Malak still have an advantage. He's just not the only show in town, and he shouldn't be.

    How is having a tank that gets destroyed in one hit by a 3 year old character an advantage? Jedi Knight Revan is going to be the only viable team again because of this change.
  • Ikky2win
    870 posts Member
    edited April 2019
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    This is the part I really don’t get. Malak was supposed to be a “super-legendary” that offset reworks... If he was supposed to be a super legendary that offset reworks, why in the world did you release a rework like a week after releasing your super-legendary that completely destroys him??? I can’t even put into words how nonsensical that is.

    Then there is the part about how Malak was supposed to satisfy the whales whining about wanting something exclusive for the money they put into the game. Again, Malak was supposed to fit that role. He did fit that role perfectly...for a week. The whales, like myself, were generally pretty happy. Those of us that got malak, especially those of us that were able to 7 star him right away, were holding really well on defense in arena. Then a week later you made the whales angry again by countering Malak with the Anakin rework.

    What in the world is going on?? My only conclusion can be not to spend money on anything because whatever you spend money on could be made useless (or at least made far less effective) a week later. That’s just my personal take from all this and I’m not telling anyone else what to do or how to spend. I feel frozen now. Do I whale to get a new character not knowing if it’s going to actually be worth anything? Do I whale to get the new character but not gear it up for a week or two just in case something else is going to immediately come along that counters it? I almost feel like I need to put a two week hold on anything new. Get it, but then don’t touch it until I’m sure it’s actually going to work as advertised.
  • Yeah I don’t know that you can reconcile it. It appears that Malak is underwhelming compared to expectations... but that said I’m so happy Anakin is a beast. It’s about time.

    And Anakin should be able to walk all over Malak and Darth Revan and eat them both for breakfast lunch and dinner. No way the chosen one whom George Lucas says SW centers around shouldn’t destroy Old Republic. Just give us the dark side version that everyone wants.
  • Sorry for the multiple posts but I also wanted to say @Drim made a post that really hit home on this subject:

    “This has to be the most ridiculous turn of the Events in this game history . Show us DR then show us who works with him then release new toon to go with him then fix a counter team and release a new counter team on the same day”

    I want to break that down.

    1. They release DR and they show who synergies with him. One of those characters is Sith Assassin.
    2. DR is underwhelming but they tease Malak.
    3. They release Malak and it makes DR meta viable, but at the same time the Palapatine lead destroys it.
    4. They don’t want the DR/Malak team to be so easily beaten so they nerf Palpatine.
    5. The Palpatine nerf also completely nerfs Sith Assassin, which again was one of the few characters that was advertised as having synergy with the team. Sith Assassin is now useless on a DR/Malak team.
    6. ON THE SAME DAY THEY NERF PALPATINE BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT IT BEATING DR/MALAK, THEY RELEASE A REWORK OF ANAKIN THAT COUNTERS DR/MALAK. They literally replaced one counter team with another counter team ON THE SAME DAY.
  • Gannon
    1619 posts Member
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.

    They increased the damage bonus of Righteous Fury, gave him Offense Up, and increased the damage ratios on his abilities (which is invisible in the text description) significantly. There are videos all over YouTube.

    I don't have a **** or clip of the old upgrade values, but the aoe damage (+50 in upgrades) looks the same to me as before. Offense up was there before, but was a chance.
    I do see the extra 25% damage increase to fury tho, but I don't get how a 25% increase makes that big of a difference, as it isn't going to trigger very often.
    I've use him under bast before revan tho and nearly one shot enemy teams..

    Again, the damage ratios of abilities is not visible in the text of the game. They are hidden values you can read on swgoh.gg and you can easily verify this by watching the videos on every SWGOH YouTube channel.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Malak is still exclusive. Those who have Malak still have an advantage. He's just not the only show in town, and he shouldn't be.

    How is having a tank that gets destroyed in one hit by a 3 year old character an advantage? Jedi Knight Revan is going to be the only viable team again because of this change.

    I play tested in gw and such the day leading up to and after the change tho, the damage looked the same to me. My ani against the exact same team, before then after.
    Also, I've watched most vids of it so far and there's been no talk of secret coding to improve his damage from what I've seen.

    My point was that he prolly could've done the same, or nearly the same, damage before the rework. I've only found proof of the extra 25% in the fury text, so far.
    If you can provide before and after screen shots tho, I'll concede that point.
  • Let's not be hard on Carrie - I mention her only because her name is already in this thread.

    Please remember that this is a COMPANY, and that just because one employee honestly believes something doesn't mean that everyone in the whole company is on the same page.

    If you like running Anakin under JKR, have fun. If you like running Malak, you'll still ruin huge numbers of teams - that anakin bit will mostly fail on defense.

    But, and wait for it, you also got a CRUSHING AWESOME defensive team in TW/GA, because if you have Malak and the other side doesn't, they have to use their Revan on offense, which leaves you with the ability to run your JKRevan however you like.

    You can still take #1 in Arena with this Malak and this JKA. You have a team that is incredibly hard to get that forces a massive advantage in TW/GA. And, for the final time, just because JKA can beat the team doesn't say anything about whether or not Carrie was lying.

    So let's ease off Carrie. The same people will still be able to take #1 in Arena. You still get an advantage in TW/GA. (And seriously, what bigger advantage do you need in Arena if you're placing #1?) And Carrie is doing her best.

    Critique the design choices if you like - that's more than fair. Grumble away. But Carrie doesn't deserve what she's been getting.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    Draeth wrote: »
    How is having a tank that gets destroyed in one hit by a 3 year old character an advantage? Jedi Knight Revan is going to be the only viable team again because of this change.
    We shall see how the meta shakes out. It's still very much in a state of flux. Not everything is a cataclysm.
    Still not a he.
  • Draeth
    33 posts Member
    edited April 2019
    Gannon wrote: »
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.

    They increased the damage bonus of Righteous Fury, gave him Offense Up, and increased the damage ratios on his abilities (which is invisible in the text description) significantly. There are videos all over YouTube.

    I don't have a **** or clip of the old upgrade values, but the aoe damage (+50 in upgrades) looks the same to me as before. Offense up was there before, but was a chance.
    I do see the extra 25% damage increase to fury tho, but I don't get how a 25% increase makes that big of a difference, as it isn't going to trigger very often.
    I've use him under bast before revan tho and nearly one shot enemy teams..

    Again, the damage ratios of abilities is not visible in the text of the game. They are hidden values you can read on swgoh.gg and you can easily verify this by watching the videos on every SWGOH YouTube channel.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Malak is still exclusive. Those who have Malak still have an advantage. He's just not the only show in town, and he shouldn't be.

    How is having a tank that gets destroyed in one hit by a 3 year old character an advantage? Jedi Knight Revan is going to be the only viable team again because of this change.

    I play tested in gw and such the day leading up to and after the change tho, the damage looked the same to me. My ani against the exact same team, before then after.
    Also, I've watched most vids of it so far and there's been no talk of secret coding to improve his damage from what I've seen.

    My point was that he prolly could've done the same, or nearly the same, damage before the rework. I've only found proof of the extra 25% in the fury text, so far.
    If you can provide before and after screen shots tho, I'll concede that point.

    If you don't understand how the math of the game works, no amount of me repeating it to you is going to change anything. Every character has a physical offense and a special offense value which you can see on their stat sheet. These usually range from 1.5-5k for a g12 character. You've probably noticed that g12 characters do more than 1.5-5k damage? That's because every ability does some multiplier of the character's offense stat. It's not visible anywhere in the game. Anakin's multipliers were both increased substantially.

    Here is a forum thread explaining the math for you:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/89968/offense-stat-ratio-to-damage

    Here are three huge reddit threads detailing the rework for you.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/bepkc8/anakins_rework_trivializes_darth_revan_malak_100k/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/beoel8/anakin_skywalker_the_best_rework_since_gmy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/beswap/proceeds_to_rework_two_existing_characters_bast/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    Any further research you can do yourself. The fact remains that Anakin is clearing entire Sith Empire teams in one hit now under Jedi Revan lead.
    Let's not be hard on Carrie - I mention her only because her name is already in this thread.

    Please remember that this is a COMPANY, and that just because one employee honestly believes something doesn't mean that everyone in the whole company is on the same page.

    If you like running Anakin under JKR, have fun. If you like running Malak, you'll still ruin huge numbers of teams - that anakin bit will mostly fail on defense.

    But, and wait for it, you also got a CRUSHING AWESOME defensive team in TW/GA, because if you have Malak and the other side doesn't, they have to use their Revan on offense, which leaves you with the ability to run your JKRevan however you like.

    You can still take #1 in Arena with this Malak and this JKA. You have a team that is incredibly hard to get that forces a massive advantage in TW/GA. And, for the final time, just because JKA can beat the team doesn't say anything about whether or not Carrie was lying.

    So let's ease off Carrie. The same people will still be able to take #1 in Arena. You still get an advantage in TW/GA. (And seriously, what bigger advantage do you need in Arena if you're placing #1?) And Carrie is doing her best.

    Critique the design choices if you like - that's more than fair. Grumble away. But Carrie doesn't deserve what she's been getting.

    You may have noticed that I very specifically and intentionally did not say anything negative about Carrie. I asked how her statement - which, no, we cannot ignore, or treat as only one person's opinion when she is literally in charge - can be reconciled with a very old character getting buffed to the point of obliterating the brand new "exclusive" team a week into its release.
  • Lasod
    52 posts Member
    Does anakin do this on defence all the time too or is it something you have to orginize manually. If its the latter than well done cg, the chosen one has risen
  • Kokie
    1338 posts Member
    On defense he dies before moving
  • Lasod
    52 posts Member
    Lol ok then ppl are just mad about a glass cannon, move along.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    ...

    This is just nuts.

    The last several days since Malak dropped, and especially since Malak was tweaked to prevent Palp meta 4.0, people were complaining about Malak being overpowered and unbeatable.

    There is now a more accessible counter among the multiple counters, and people are angry about that.

    This playerbase has no idea what it wants.
    Still not a he.
  • Gannon
    1619 posts Member
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Draeth wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    What part of the rework suddenly added this ability to deal massive damage? 👀
    I didn't see them adding damage or anything to his kit..
    If it works now, then it likely worked before now anyway, so I don't get it.

    They increased the damage bonus of Righteous Fury, gave him Offense Up, and increased the damage ratios on his abilities (which is invisible in the text description) significantly. There are videos all over YouTube.

    I don't have a **** or clip of the old upgrade values, but the aoe damage (+50 in upgrades) looks the same to me as before. Offense up was there before, but was a chance.
    I do see the extra 25% damage increase to fury tho, but I don't get how a 25% increase makes that big of a difference, as it isn't going to trigger very often.
    I've use him under bast before revan tho and nearly one shot enemy teams..

    Again, the damage ratios of abilities is not visible in the text of the game. They are hidden values you can read on swgoh.gg and you can easily verify this by watching the videos on every SWGOH YouTube channel.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Malak is still exclusive. Those who have Malak still have an advantage. He's just not the only show in town, and he shouldn't be.

    How is having a tank that gets destroyed in one hit by a 3 year old character an advantage? Jedi Knight Revan is going to be the only viable team again because of this change.

    I play tested in gw and such the day leading up to and after the change tho, the damage looked the same to me. My ani against the exact same team, before then after.
    Also, I've watched most vids of it so far and there's been no talk of secret coding to improve his damage from what I've seen.

    My point was that he prolly could've done the same, or nearly the same, damage before the rework. I've only found proof of the extra 25% in the fury text, so far.
    If you can provide before and after screen shots tho, I'll concede that point.

    If you don't understand how the math of the game works, no amount of me repeating it to you is going to change anything. Every character has a physical offense and a special offense value which you can see on their stat sheet. These usually range from 1.5-5k for a g12 character. You've probably noticed that g12 characters do more than 1.5-5k damage? That's because every ability does some multiplier of the character's offense stat. It's not visible anywhere in the game. Anakin's multipliers were both increased substantially.

    Here is a forum thread explaining the math for you:

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/89968/offense-stat-ratio-to-damage

    Here are three huge reddit threads detailing the rework for you.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/bepkc8/anakins_rework_trivializes_darth_revan_malak_100k/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/beoel8/anakin_skywalker_the_best_rework_since_gmy/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/beswap/proceeds_to_rework_two_existing_characters_bast/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

    Any further research you can do yourself. The fact remains that Anakin is clearing entire Sith Empire teams in one hit now under Jedi Revan lead.
    Let's not be hard on Carrie - I mention her only because her name is already in this thread.

    Please remember that this is a COMPANY, and that just because one employee honestly believes something doesn't mean that everyone in the whole company is on the same page.

    If you like running Anakin under JKR, have fun. If you like running Malak, you'll still ruin huge numbers of teams - that anakin bit will mostly fail on defense.

    But, and wait for it, you also got a CRUSHING AWESOME defensive team in TW/GA, because if you have Malak and the other side doesn't, they have to use their Revan on offense, which leaves you with the ability to run your JKRevan however you like.

    You can still take #1 in Arena with this Malak and this JKA. You have a team that is incredibly hard to get that forces a massive advantage in TW/GA. And, for the final time, just because JKA can beat the team doesn't say anything about whether or not Carrie was lying.

    So let's ease off Carrie. The same people will still be able to take #1 in Arena. You still get an advantage in TW/GA. (And seriously, what bigger advantage do you need in Arena if you're placing #1?) And Carrie is doing her best.

    Critique the design choices if you like - that's more than fair. Grumble away. But Carrie doesn't deserve what she's been getting.

    You may have noticed that I very specifically and intentionally did not say anything negative about Carrie. I asked how her statement - which, no, we cannot ignore, or treat as only one person's opinion when she is literally in charge - can be reconciled with a very old character getting buffed to the point of obliterating the brand new "exclusive" team a week into its release.

    An outdated tin foil hat post and a bunch of videos and threads raving that he kills Darth revan? From everything I've seen, tested, read, and researched, his stats didn't change, his damage didn't change, and he didn't even get a full rework. Only difference as far as damage is a 25% boost to his fury unique.
    This would've likely worked before the rework, especially with the armor/defense reducing effects of Darth revan, if someone had thought to test it.
    I see no problem here.
  • I asked how her statement - which, no, we cannot ignore, or treat as only one person's opinion when she is literally in charge - can be reconciled with [JKA's effectiveness vs. DR & Malak]

    She's not literally in charge. She's a PR person who communicates what she's told, but is worth her salary because she has the writing and speaking skills to express what she needs to express clearly, effectively, and hopefully with a bit of art. Other people are in charge of EA/CG, not Carrie. This is as bad as saying that Sarah Sanders is in charge of the White House in the USA. It's just not remotely true.

    As for the question, I made clear that I agree there's reason to critique the rework. But Carrie isn't responsible for the rework, and I'd bet you 10,000 purple crystals that they didn't show her the math on the rework before she crafter her statements.

    The statements cannot be reconciled with JKA's effectiveness vs. DR/Malak, but that's not on Carrie. It's on whoever is high enough up the chain of command that both the Devs AND Carrie answer to that person. How high up the organizational chart do you have to go to reach someone that can give orders to both programmers and Carrie? I don't know, but it sure as heck isn't Carrie herself.

    Question the rework if you like. Incorporate Carrie's statements into your critiques to show that the JKA rework isn't consistent with what players have been told, if you believe that to be true. But Carrie doesn't control programmers or game balance and putting responsibility the JKA situation on Carrie in any way is wrong. And, if you didn't notice, I didn't call you out by name because I'm not interested in naming and shaming. Y'all are adults, and everyone in this thread with the capacity for self reflection can decide for themselves whether they have participated in blaming Carrie for a situation which is not her fault.

    Honestly, Carrie should be your friend in all this. People could easily take an approach like this:
    Recently Carrie told us X about Malak, whaling, & game balance.
    We have noticed Y about JKA vs. DR-led Malak teams.
    We agree with Carrie that X should be true, but we don't believe that Y is compatible with X.
    Could someone with power over the devs please take Carrie's statements seriously? She needs to be told if it's not EA/CG's intent to create a game where X is true. And if she was right and you're trying to create a game where X is true, then please change Y which would otherwise be incompatible with that.

    Seriously. Carrie is your ally in this because she's the insider who is spelling out a convincing argument for exactly what you want.

    I, personally, have no problem with a JKA glass cannon. Different toons have different roles. JKA goes BOOM. It's what he was designed to do. He's completely useless on defense but stellar on offense, as a glass cannon should be. Heck, in most ways he's a less problematic glass cannon than Princess Leia who preserves herself despite her low health with stealth and a strong regen mechanic in her zeta. JKA just happens to fit well with a currently powerful meta-team AND performs the role of glass cannon.

    But if you hate on JKA and want him nerfed, there's no reason to criticize Carrie unless you have evidence that she was handed information that contradicted what she said and then lied about it. Since we don't have that, Carrie is entirely irrelevant to the conversation and should not even have been brought up unless you want to uphold her as championing your side. (I don't think her statements actually do champion your side, but whatevs: you do you.)

    So next time maybe think about who is in charge, and maybe when someone makes a statement that you can use in your argument treat that person with some generosity and respect, rather than making them literally responsible for the things you don't like even though the things you don't like come from the devs and not the PR shop.
  • Kokie
    1338 posts Member
    Lasod wrote: »
    Lol ok then ppl are just mad about a glass cannon, move along.

    I'm not mad....I love the matchup
  • Javin37
    367 posts Member
    Yeah, this pretty much will anger the only people that weren't angry the past few days.

    Give them credit for this one. Caps off a week that won't be topped easily.

    Might as well have ROLO a platoon requirement p6 at this point and hand out chewie shards instead of GET.
  • @icanectc
    With that said i do not agree that Carrie is our advocate in this. Fact is she is PR for CG not the player base.

    If I communicated that, then I've written badly. I agree with your statement here: her job is to do PR for CG, not for me or any other player.

    What I was trying to communicate was that in this case, her words might be advantageous to a player making the argument that JKA should be nerfed. (Full disclosure, that player is not me. I'm fine with JKA as a glass cannon.) She's only an accidental ally to those trying to make that argument, but her statement does seem to lend at least a little weight to that position, so if that's what you're trying to argue, why not laud her instead of attacking her?

    I think we're probably in exact agreement if I can just communicate clearly. (Obviously I myself couldn't be a PR professional.)
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