I'm not sure it will have the effect you hope for. If your opponent can block your path to the fleet zone with the current layout, moving the fleet zone to the front will just make him able to block you from a character zone in the back instead.
I think his point is that he wants to try this strategy. He feels his fleet is strong enough to block his opponents from a character zone in the back. And none of the GA maps have allowed him to try this strategy.
True. But still, the opponent will simply block a character zone containing weak characters instead, which leaves him more strong characters for offense to clear both of OP's character zones with ease, while OP clears one fleet zone and at most 1 character zone - and still looses.
But ok. It may feel different loosing this way.
You're making a lot of assumptions here. And putting forth a large effort to build a false dichotomy. It makes me curious as to your motivations. How would you be negatively affected if the fleet zone was moved to the front?
I never claimed that there would be a negative impact. I simply stated that:
I'm not sure it will have the effect you hope for.
You misread my post.
I read your post correctly. I'm just wondering why you're putting in such an effort to oppose a fleet forward map. My best guess was that you'd be negatively affected. If it really is just that you don't think it'll have the effect OP hopes for then consider me impressed with the amount of time you spent preparing OP for disappointment.
it’s kind of hard for any setup to reward ship investments right now. Keep the Falcon for offense and just blow past whatever the defense puts out there. 5 good ships or 30 good ships, it doesn’t really matter.
It's the same in squad though. Whoever has the most Revans wins.
Revan is just 2 squads though. In ships you can neutralize everything else your opponent has by keeping the Falcon, because it beats everything, there is no modding to deal with, and there is only 1 defensively slot. In squad battles you can keep your Darth Revan and maybe be guaranteed a win against any single squad your opponent throws up, but you still have 6-10 other squads to deal with.
Two OP squads versus one OP fleet. Which isn't really all that OP if you have either Cassian's U-Wing, the Ebon Hawk, or your own Falcon. And if you don't have any of these ships yet, why would you possibly think that you deserve to win in a fleet GA?
I don’t think you are understanding my point. I’m not saying you can stick it on defense and win. I’m saying that any player can completely negate any ship advantage by just keeping the Falcon on offense. I can have a fully maxed out ship fleet going up an opponent with 3-4 maxed rebel ships. That extra GP is just going to hurt me, because I can’t gain any advantage. He puts crap on defense, keeps his Falcon to beat mine or whatever I put on defense. We both come out with near the same score on ships.
From what I have seen in fleet vs player GP there are some differences but they are nowhere ever near 500k.
Anyway, yes, you could make an argument for sticking a ship quadrant up front from time to time. Still, quite honestly this is just whinging for the most part, next time maybe you have the advantage. I suspect you won't be saying how unfair that is. Any layout will favour some "focus" or other (which are, face it, 90% the same for most).. I would agree though, again, no reason ships should always be at back in GA.
From what I have seen in fleet vs player GP there are some differences but they are nowhere ever near 500k.
My current opponent has about 1.37m squad GP to my 1.07m and the worst I have seen was a member of my bracket who had 1.35m squad GP to my 900k. The matchmaker pays no heed to squad : fleet ratio.
Anyway, yes, you could make an argument for sticking a ship quadrant up front from time to time. Still, quite honestly this is just whinging for the most part, next time maybe you have the advantage.
The way GA is balanced right now, a fleet-heavy roster is disadvantaged on every mixed squad+fleet map.
'Walling in' zones with weaker squads/fleet has always been strategic options in TW and GA. It's no different than 'walling in' weak squads behind a zone of strong META squads. Removing that strategic aspect from all GA map layouts would be a terrible idea. Strategic aspects make GA more fun. I see no problem with the current GA layout.
This is very different since players are not matched by character GP alone, as I already pointed out in my opening post. Someone with a vastly higher char GP shouldn't get to use this advantage to render their ships untouchable.
Why not?
Because I'm being matched with people who have been playing twice as long as myself while neglecting their fleets, courtesy of my high fleet GP. People who have half a year worth of raid gear and zetas on me.
As I've explained multiple times now, they're in a position to effectively turn this game mode into a squad-only GP, in which case their vastly higher squad GP plus better gear & more zetas constitutes an unfair advantage. The exact same type of advantage we've seen in early squad GA events when total GP instead of character GP was used for matchmaking.
Advantage? So, what's your goal? To simply be able to fight the fleet battle or to have a chance at winning?
Edit / added:
And as I usually say:
If you have a strong ships and a fleet, that can hold on defense, you have the advantage. If your opponent has a squad for which you have no counter, your disadvantage is not that you played for shorter time or have less zetas, character GP and what not. Your disadvantage is, that you didn't acquire that counter.
My goal is to be able to actually use my fleet in fleet GA at all, even when my opponent can place defensive squads I cannot beat. Both fleets and squads should stand on their own in squad + fleet GA. Neither should cancel out the other. Both fleet- and squad-focused players should have a fair chance at winning.
it’s kind of hard for any setup to reward ship investments right now. Keep the Falcon for offense and just blow past whatever the defense puts out there. 5 good ships or 30 good ships, it doesn’t really matter.
It's the same in squad though. Whoever has the most Revans wins.
Revan is just 2 squads though. In ships you can neutralize everything else your opponent has by keeping the Falcon, because it beats everything, there is no modding to deal with, and there is only 1 defensively slot. In squad battles you can keep your Darth Revan and maybe be guaranteed a win against any single squad your opponent throws up, but you still have 6-10 other squads to deal with.
Two OP squads versus one OP fleet. Which isn't really all that OP if you have either Cassian's U-Wing, the Ebon Hawk, or your own Falcon. And if you don't have any of these ships yet, why would you possibly think that you deserve to win in a fleet GA?
I don’t think you are understanding my point. I’m not saying you can stick it on defense and win. I’m saying that any player can completely negate any ship advantage by just keeping the Falcon on offense. I can have a fully maxed out ship fleet going up an opponent with 3-4 maxed rebel ships. That extra GP is just going to hurt me, because I can’t gain any advantage. He puts crap on defense, keeps his Falcon to beat mine or whatever I put on defense. We both come out with near the same score on ships.
I see what you mean now, and I think it's the same thing Rath was addressing too. This can only be solved by requiring two defensive fleets. Everyone has 3 capital ships. Those who don't have enough ships for 3 full fleets would have to place incomplete fleets on defense. And of course missing defenses need to be auto-filled even if players manually set some defense, which is still not the case.
Replies
I read your post correctly. I'm just wondering why you're putting in such an effort to oppose a fleet forward map. My best guess was that you'd be negatively affected. If it really is just that you don't think it'll have the effect OP hopes for then consider me impressed with the amount of time you spent preparing OP for disappointment.
I don’t think you are understanding my point. I’m not saying you can stick it on defense and win. I’m saying that any player can completely negate any ship advantage by just keeping the Falcon on offense. I can have a fully maxed out ship fleet going up an opponent with 3-4 maxed rebel ships. That extra GP is just going to hurt me, because I can’t gain any advantage. He puts crap on defense, keeps his Falcon to beat mine or whatever I put on defense. We both come out with near the same score on ships.
Anyway, yes, you could make an argument for sticking a ship quadrant up front from time to time. Still, quite honestly this is just whinging for the most part, next time maybe you have the advantage. I suspect you won't be saying how unfair that is. Any layout will favour some "focus" or other (which are, face it, 90% the same for most).. I would agree though, again, no reason ships should always be at back in GA.
The way GA is balanced right now, a fleet-heavy roster is disadvantaged on every mixed squad+fleet map.
My goal is to be able to actually use my fleet in fleet GA at all, even when my opponent can place defensive squads I cannot beat. Both fleets and squads should stand on their own in squad + fleet GA. Neither should cancel out the other. Both fleet- and squad-focused players should have a fair chance at winning.
I see what you mean now, and I think it's the same thing Rath was addressing too. This can only be solved by requiring two defensive fleets. Everyone has 3 capital ships. Those who don't have enough ships for 3 full fleets would have to place incomplete fleets on defense. And of course missing defenses need to be auto-filled even if players manually set some defense, which is still not the case.