I'm sure by now everyone is well aware of the fact that speed is king when it comes to modding. The Darth Revan/Malak meta really shows this more than anything, it's become an endless struggle to get 1 more speed than the enemy teams Bastila Shan Fallen or make your BSF 1 speed faster than a GMY so you can get CBM on the enemy before the tenacity up.
I think most agree that speed is by far a stronger stat than the others. The issue I see that doesn't get much talk is the actual mod sets. I've noticed a consistent trend in my shard and GA of opponents that are ignoring the mod set bonuses in favor of 4 speed set plus any 2 random max secondary speed mods.
Could we not possibly have some penalty for not matching the sets? Perhaps a 25-50% stat decrease on the mods that aren't matched if the set bonus is not activated. Meaning a 24 speed mod becomes a 12 speed mod if it's set requirement is not met.
This doesn't make speed any less powerful, it just prevents people getting one mod and using it everywhere no matter the character. It just prevents the race for 1 more speed no matter the cost. The current loss of the set bonuses just doesn't off set the gain of 1 speed.
Perhaps we can gather some ideas for the devs here.
Personally I think it’s stupid to have maxed sets for one more speed. That part isn’t strategic at all. I don’t have mixed sets where you have a random critical damage and speed set on the same toon. It means the player lacks speed likely.
Personally I think it’s stupid to have maxed sets for one more speed. That part isn’t strategic at all. I don’t have mixed sets where you have a random critical damage and speed set on the same toon. It means the player lacks speed likely.
If I can outspeed the opposing team by adding one speed, you better believe I'm going to "not be strategic," whatever that's supposed to mean.
Personally I think it’s stupid to have maxed sets for one more speed. That part isn’t strategic at all. I don’t have mixed sets where you have a random critical damage and speed set on the same toon. It means the player lacks speed likely.
In most metas, there are key units for whom going first is The Most Important Thing. Badstila and Thrawn are the most obvious. R2 going before Devan has a huge impact on whether or not Padme can win in the current arena. Going non-meta, whether or not you can get Starck to go first is the bar that makes the difference between, "Imperial troopers counter almost everything on offense," and just another B team. Many units like Hermit Yoda, C-3PO, or First Order Officer get almost nothing out of stats that are not speed. Go first, go often is the name of the game.
Sacrificing 15% potency or 10% health in order to have a better chance at winning initiative when winning initiative affects you chances of victory way more than that health or potency. Prioritizing the thing that can win you fights is a 100% valid and reasonable strategic choice.
Maximizing my speed so both my DR and my BSF go before anyone else goes is absolutely strategy. I tweak their speeds almost every arena battle at the top to get that result and my fights are way easier because of it.
Thanks for your concern about my free time though.
Get a life. You are on every post on this forum. And as far as strategy mixing sets isn’t considered strategy.
You're also here.
And isn't considered strategy by whom? You? Doesn't matter.
Every informed choice that impacts an outcome in a game is part of strategy. Choosing to sacrifice the benefit of a matched set in favor of a different benefit that you believe will help you more is absolutely strategy. Is it theoretically optimal? No. Is it the best available option in some situations? Absolutely.
Speed is what it is and any change in its dominance would probably break Reddit. I may be the only one who enjoyed the way mods were on release. At least then you could load someone up with an obscene amount of protection which could absorb the extra turns gained from speed. But even statistically speed outpaces all other skills as a percentage of base stat.
Frankly gameplay would probably have been better without secondary skills and just primary and mod sets but that wouldn’t drive spend in the same way as the slot machine pull of secondary rolling.
Personally I think it’s stupid to have maxed sets for one more speed. That part isn’t strategic at all. I don’t have mixed sets where you have a random critical damage and speed set on the same toon. It means the player lacks speed likely.
haha, well i'd rather have easy wins with mixed sets than having to scramble with matching sets. Feel free to think it's stpid and not strategic though.
The first thought that comes to mind is a simple, nerf speed secondary stats and buff every other secondary stat, especially the lesser used ones.
So, what difference will +25,000 offense and +200,000 health do if I don't get a single turn the entire fight if I don't get to move first? You're trying to fix the wrong problem.
TBH for the sake of balance: Hard-Caps for every stat, not speed only. Make chars with different caps of each stat (e.g.: Tank can not be faster than an attacker (speed))
The problem isnt one thing. It is multifaceted. Yes speed is always king, but in some situations that can be overcome. Faster JTR? Use a high tenacity/crit avoidance team. Faster ewoks? AOE daze or a tank who counters and applies daze. Even Jedi revan, I'd take a slightly slower revan with a much stronger jolee/GK and higher offense on Yoda instead of speed.
Part of the problem is the current meta. Due to undispellable debuffs, AOE turn lockouts, and high damage/max health based damage. Missing a turn because of being slower means an auto loss.
Any fix would need to be multifaceted as well. Nerfing speed would just keep the same speed meta issues at lower top speeds.
The set bonus issue is just asinine. At the top end of nature shards you won't survive without a high speed speed set. It would just make everyone farm speed sets and health sets only and make all other mod sets useless.
It needs to be a much more comprehensive adjustment.
One simple change to break up monotony could be to add some randomness.
If speed was changed to random(speed), or speed/2+random(speed/2), or something similar, then there would no longer be any guarantees of who goes first, and a single +1 speed would not be as important, while speed probably would still be prioritized over all.
I think that would make the fights a little more interesting.
One simple change to break up monotony could be to add some randomness.
If speed was changed to random(speed), or speed/2+random(speed/2), or something similar, then there would no longer be any guarantees of who goes first, and a single +1 speed would not be as important, while speed probably would still be prioritized over all.
I think that would make the fights a little more interesting.
PS. Random (X) = a random value between 0 and X.
Randomness is not a solution. It can be very unsatisfying when your win or loss is decided by a coin toss, rather than preparation and strategy. And this means you completely lose control over your own turn order, wrecking a lot of strategy.
This is not a simple problem, and does not have a simple solution. It's a problem that literally predates CG by decades.
One thing that could make speed mods a little more of a choice and a little harder to achieve would be to change the speed mod set to require 6 (instead of 4). There is already a differentiation of different sets requiring different amounts (2 vs 4) so it wouldn't be an odd change; and considering speed is so overwhelmingly powerful, requiring you to fill all spots for the speed bonus seems fair. So you would basically have to decide to go all in on speed (which most are doing anyways) but it would require you to specifically have speed mods with high speed secondaries versus throwing in other random high speed secondary mods.
One thing that could make speed mods a little more of a choice and a little harder to achieve would be to change the speed mod set to require 6 (instead of 4). There is already a differentiation of different sets requiring different amounts (2 vs 4) so it wouldn't be an odd change; and considering speed is so overwhelmingly powerful, requiring you to fill all spots for the speed bonus seems fair. So you would basically have to decide to go all in on speed (which most are doing anyways) but it would require you to specifically have speed mods with high speed secondaries versus throwing in other random high speed secondary mods.
Wouldn't help. Would just be somewhat irritating.
The characters who use speed sets usually literally do not care about anything else. This wouldn't make speed sets less attractive. It would just devalue literally anything else.
Only way to truly negate the speed meta is buffing other stats. The DR teams right now just land everything if they go first. Everyone gets feared no matter how much tenacity you have if you are running without a pretaunt. Making the abilities much more resistable and damage mitigated more is the solution to straight out speed
Only way to truly negate the speed meta is buffing other stats. The DR teams right now just land everything if they go first. Everyone gets feared no matter how much tenacity you have if you are running without a pretaunt. Making the abilities much more resistable and damage mitigated more is the solution to straight out speed
Only way to truly negate the speed meta is buffing other stats. The DR teams right now just land everything if they go first. Everyone gets feared no matter how much tenacity you have if you are running without a pretaunt. Making the abilities much more resistable and damage mitigated more is the solution to straight out speed
Or just run JKR?
The JKR is kind of a gimmick team and your gmy has to be faster than DR really
Replies
something like 80% offense bonus, 100% defense may be better trade offs
Awful idea.
Where is the dislike button even? Bleah, try again.
If I can outspeed the opposing team by adding one speed, you better believe I'm going to "not be strategic," whatever that's supposed to mean.
Sacrificing 15% potency or 10% health in order to have a better chance at winning initiative when winning initiative affects you chances of victory way more than that health or potency. Prioritizing the thing that can win you fights is a 100% valid and reasonable strategic choice.
Or you can try not being a troll and adding something of value to the conversation.
Disagreeing with a suggestion is not being a troll, it's disagreeing.
Anyone who thinks anyone who disagrees is a troll should not be making suggestions on a public forum.
Get a life. You are on every post on this forum. And as far as strategy mixing sets isn’t considered strategy.
Thanks for your concern about my free time though.
And isn't considered strategy by whom? You? Doesn't matter.
Every informed choice that impacts an outcome in a game is part of strategy. Choosing to sacrifice the benefit of a matched set in favor of a different benefit that you believe will help you more is absolutely strategy. Is it theoretically optimal? No. Is it the best available option in some situations? Absolutely.
Frankly gameplay would probably have been better without secondary skills and just primary and mod sets but that wouldn’t drive spend in the same way as the slot machine pull of secondary rolling.
what would that accomplish though? And why is that preferable over how it currently is?
haha, well i'd rather have easy wins with mixed sets than having to scramble with matching sets. Feel free to think it's stpid and not strategic though.
So, what difference will +25,000 offense and +200,000 health do if I don't get a single turn the entire fight if I don't get to move first? You're trying to fix the wrong problem.
this would break PVE, especially raids. Imagine having RT in P1 doing even more damage, or having a team that can constantly debuff nihlus.
Mods got introduced to the game later on, pre-mods everything was hard capped and it didn't bring balance.
Thanks, didn't start playing 3 years ago. Then there is a flaw in the game design itself ...
Part of the problem is the current meta. Due to undispellable debuffs, AOE turn lockouts, and high damage/max health based damage. Missing a turn because of being slower means an auto loss.
Any fix would need to be multifaceted as well. Nerfing speed would just keep the same speed meta issues at lower top speeds.
The set bonus issue is just asinine. At the top end of nature shards you won't survive without a high speed speed set. It would just make everyone farm speed sets and health sets only and make all other mod sets useless.
It needs to be a much more comprehensive adjustment.
If speed was changed to random(speed), or speed/2+random(speed/2), or something similar, then there would no longer be any guarantees of who goes first, and a single +1 speed would not be as important, while speed probably would still be prioritized over all.
I think that would make the fights a little more interesting.
PS. Random (X) = a random value between 0 and X.
This is not a simple problem, and does not have a simple solution. It's a problem that literally predates CG by decades.
The characters who use speed sets usually literally do not care about anything else. This wouldn't make speed sets less attractive. It would just devalue literally anything else.
Or just run JKR?
The JKR is kind of a gimmick team and your gmy has to be faster than DR really