Falling player numbers - it's time to talk ...

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I've been in this game for a number of years now, and until recently it's been great, but over the last few months something's changed, and players are voting with their feet (never mind their wallets).

The biggest impact began with the start of the Revan era. The team when it was introduced was all powerful - beyond OP. The first team member to die was automatically revived. Bindo Jolee was too hard to kill, and could revive 3 jedi in one go. It swept all other teams before it. Everyone had to have that team, or be beaten.

Before Revan was introduced, there was a diverse meta. Treya was queen, but there was a fair variety of teams that were viable. After Revan came in, it was get Revan, or get beaten. Not everyone got Revan the first time, but second time around, it was clear he was the must have character, and so most did. It was also clear what the dominant team was - JKR, Jolee, Bastilla, GMY and GK.

However, this is where the trouble began. The mirror matches were boring. They often timed out, or took almost all of the allotted 5 minutes, and once you beat one team, what was next? Doing the same thing again against the next one. After the initial excitement of getting Revan is over, Arena became drudgery not fun.

A lot of the truths we cling to depend on one's point of view, and I'm sure Revan was good for business for a while.

Then along came Darth Revan. Like Revan, it was a much requested character. But the same thing happened again. He too is overpowered, and completely destroys Revan. It's no longer a rock-paper-scissors game, but a do you have the right Revan game?

There was another knock on negative effect: Once we knew Darth Revan was coming, everyone had to stop whatever they were working on and grind for the new characters needed for him. Now everyone's farming the same toons, and fighting the same mirror matches in Arena every day, with the prospect ahead of them that once they get Darth Revan, they can repeat the boredom of mirror matches, but with a slightly different set of toons.

The game quickly ceases to be fun in this way, and it is no wonder players drifted away once the 1st Revan meta was established, and left in greater numbers (no need to do so single file) as the meta continued and perhaps in greater numbers when it became Malak would require both Revans, and so the meta wouldn't expand in a meaningful way at all.

As a business model, clearly there need to be toons that customers need to financially invest in to drive sales and maintain the game's profitability, but the game also needs numbers to thrive, and it needs to be of interest to the many, rather than a few whales.

The problem is the Revans are too powerful, and the rest of the player rosters are unable to compete.

Attempts have been made to make inroads into this with the release of Padme and the separatist reworks. However, Separatists were such a forgotten faction, few players were able to get Padme unlocked at a high enough level to make her Arena viable. Moreover, when she seemed to be the beacon of hope, there was a 'tweak'/nerf to ensure that she didn't outshine Malak.

A rethink is needed. A return to a more rock-paper-scissors Arena is needed, and much sooner rather than later, or the numbers leaving will be too many to go in single file to hide their numbers, even if they wanted to.

But the Devs should do what they think is right, of course ...

Replies

  • Gifafi
    6017 posts Member
    Don’t see any numbers itt
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Yes, I'd like to see a source for the thread title.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Especially since the devs said in the Q&A that their data doesn’t support the alleged mass exodus people seem to think has happened.
  • You fanbois crack me up. 🤣

    A guy posts his impressions of the game and offers reasons why he believes the people he sees leaving the game are doing it... Not one, but THREE have to come in and try and squash him.

    “The Devs say everything is hunky dory.”

    If history has taught us anything, no one ever admits a mistake until 6 months after they’ve been ‘caught’. Time will tell if he was right or not, my guild and shard chats tell me he’s not as wrong as you might have us believe.
  • OB1_Kenobi_2016
    12 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    Mobile Gamer reviewed the income data available from Sensor Tower in this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oypi1QK5Ru0&list=PLM51JK5SPzFAc9WjqqgYVJGoZ92PnEKeE&index=6&t=0s
    There's also reference to the falling subscriptions of his and AhnaldT101's SWGoH channels.

    If you look at the Guild Search feature in-game, you will see many Guilds at the 100mill GP point that often have 5 or 6 spaces available.

    In my own Guild (109 mill GP) we've had vacancies for the last 2-3 months, whereas before they would be filled within a week, often within days.

    The title of this thread is not 'mass exodus'. It's numbers falling.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    I love these type of threads.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Damodamo
    1574 posts Member
    Game changers are dropping subscribers, oh well in that case the game is obviously failing..

    Or it could be that they are losing revenue on twitch or whatever and need to generate, so publish dubious content that generates interest etc etc..

    Man I hate the gc program, entitled, pointless and always the lowest common denominator in what they do. Yet people lap up the drivel.

    Nothing to see here, move along...
  • RandomSithLord
    2325 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    There's also reference to the falling subscriptions of his and AhnaldT101's SWGoH channels.
    That's irrefutable proof of players leaving the game.
  • No. This is data players can access. What other data sources do you suggest?

    Do you have data that contradicts this?
  • LynnYoda
    1017 posts Member
    Mobile gamer + Ahnald said it must be so true............................
  • jhbuchholz
    1966 posts Member
    TL;DR:
    You don't like mirror matches.
    Ahnald is losing subscribers.
    The sky is falling!
  • LynnYoda wrote: »
    Mobile gamer + Ahnald said it must be so true............................
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    TL;DR:
    You don't like mirror matches.
    Ahnald is losing subscribers.
    The sky is falling!

    Do you have alternative data to show the numbers are static, or growing?
  • Damodamo
    1574 posts Member
    No. This is data players can access. What other data sources do you suggest?

    Do you have data that contradicts this?

    Are you still playing the game @OB1_Kenobi_2016 ??
    I take it that’s a yes?

    If so do you really care if a couple of gc are losing subscribers?

    As to player numbers, go look in the recruitment threads...doesn’t seem to be a lack of players, just a lot of guilds all offering a very similar experience and rewards..sorry that your guild has space for months (sketchy advertising?)

    But meh.. I’m playing, people in my guild are playing, content is being released..first sign of any business failing would be a cut back on new stuff.. if it was in decline, it would make logical business sense to hold onto everything they can and not spend money developing new things..yet we can all see the raft of new stuff that has come out and there is still more to come that has been announced.

    You can either take the common sense approach, or be all harbinger of doom. Whatever makes you feel good I guess.
  • Damodamo wrote: »
    No. This is data players can access. What other data sources do you suggest?

    Do you have data that contradicts this?

    Are you still playing the game @OB1_Kenobi_2016 ??
    I take it that’s a yes?

    If so do you really care if a couple of gc are losing subscribers?

    As to player numbers, go look in the recruitment threads...doesn’t seem to be a lack of players, just a lot of guilds all offering a very similar experience and rewards..sorry that your guild has space for months (sketchy advertising?)

    But meh.. I’m playing, people in my guild are playing, content is being released..first sign of any business failing would be a cut back on new stuff.. if it was in decline, it would make logical business sense to hold onto everything they can and not spend money developing new things..yet we can all see the raft of new stuff that has come out and there is still more to come that has been announced.

    You can either take the common sense approach, or be all harbinger of doom. Whatever makes you feel good I guess.

    So no data at all then.

    Player numbers falling does not mean the business is failing (yet). That would require a significant exodus. Falling player numbers suggests changes are needed to bring it back to a state of greater prosperity.

    Before a business fails, the sensible thing to do is listen to your customer base and reflect.
  • Damodamo
    1574 posts Member
    I think if you actually look around the forum, which is usually fairly vitriolic and at both ends of the spectrum, people get what they ask for, eventually, then complain it’s not what they wanted, then say they are leaving, yet there is still an uptake of new players. This can be seen by the (mainly) English speaking people on this board. It does not take into account the amount of non English speaking people who also start this game.

    I’ve been playing this game for a good few years on my current account and since jan 2016 on my first account, right now it feels like there are more players than ever. This could be wrong, but despite what two gc say about there subscribers and a few doom mongers @OB1_Kenobi_2016 (I’m counting you as one here) say, the game doesn’t feel like it’s struggling, if anything it’s developed into a more mature and rounded actual game, rather than just a 10 min time sink like most mobile games. I put less time into Skyrim or any of the fallout games than I have into this one, both in total and in average hours a week.

    I’m sure a lot of people will feel the same way.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Maybe their subscriptions are down because people have realized they don’t actually have anything useful to say.
  • Damodamo
    1574 posts Member
    Oh @OB1_Kenobi_2016 look.. info.. actual comments from the dev team..

    @Liath also a valid point.. the gc assume people are too lazy to work there own strategies out and need to be spoon fed everything!
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    People leave all the time, of course you’d feel numbers are dropping, but there are new players joining all the time too, and they’re not going to appear on your Leaderboard obviously.

    Long story short, CG has their Health Metrics data (which you are asking for) and they’ve stated it’s going up. So give it a rest with all the doom and gloom.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member

    Do you have data that contradicts this?


    Do you have alternative data to show the numbers are static, or growing?


    So no data at all then.

    This basically sums up this entire thread; no data
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    If I made a video claiming no one is quiting, would you believe that too?
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • You need to read that post more carefully. CG Carrie isn't saying that player numbers aren't dropping. She's saying there isn't a mass exodus.

    I'm not saying there's a mass exodus. I'm saying player numbers are dropping.

    She's not saying the game is healthy either. She says that "many of our health metrics ... have gone up".
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    You need to read that post more carefully. CG Carrie isn't saying that player numbers aren't dropping. She's saying there isn't a mass exodus.

    I'm not saying there's a mass exodus. I'm saying player numbers are dropping.

    She's not saying the game is healthy either. She says that "many of our health metrics ... have gone up".

    So she is stating that the health metrics have gone up, and from my understanding of how this works, she is looking at actual data and numbers that are representative of in game activity and game play for the entire player base.

    Now you are saying that the players are leaving the game at some rate that is bad for the game or different than previously based on........
    ... no data at all then....

    Which one sounds like the more accurate description of the current state of the player base?
    What people see locally is not always representative of the player base.
  • OB1_Kenobi_2016
    12 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    Here's the link to the Reddit page with the Sensor Tower data for this game since 2016:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/boh28c/swgoh_sales_q4_fy2019_april_2019/

    As you can see it is broken down by month, and the financial revenue is falling month on month since December 18.
  • Damodamo
    1574 posts Member
    And that shows revenue, from an external data source. Not cg, not ea. It doesn’t show profit on said revenue, which is the important part for anyone investing in the game. Please remember that an 8-10million return per month, on an initial investment from 4/5 financial years ago, that will have already been balanced and amortised is by any measure a good product.

    If cg or ea publish annual accounts and break those annual accounts down into divisions/projects/games, then and only then will you be able to stand on your high horse @OB1_Kenobi_2016 and preach that the game is in decline financially.
  • LynnYoda
    1017 posts Member
    LynnYoda wrote: »
    Mobile gamer + Ahnald said it must be so true............................
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    TL;DR:
    You don't like mirror matches.
    Ahnald is losing subscribers.
    The sky is falling!

    Do you have alternative data to show the numbers are static, or growing?

    Why would i have? youtubers said its true so it must be...................
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    LynnYoda wrote: »
    LynnYoda wrote: »
    Mobile gamer + Ahnald said it must be so true............................
    jhbuchholz wrote: »
    TL;DR:
    You don't like mirror matches.
    Ahnald is losing subscribers.
    The sky is falling!

    Do you have alternative data to show the numbers are static, or growing?

    Why would i have? youtubers said its true so it must be...................

    Just to be fair - the DATA the youtubers are citing is not "made up" - it's based on actual in-game purchase data, which is accessible to the general public.

    Incidentally, the youtubers (and the data itself) have no bias (apart from getting views). CG_Carrie does, so I take her completely vague (and unsubstantiated) point in the Q&A with a very large grain of salt.

    And no - no actual data I have seen contradicts the real data cited regarding the drop in-app spending.



    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • TVF
    36527 posts Member
    Because you aren't going to see the actual data. See above.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Because you aren't going to see the actual data. See above.

    What you (and the above post) actually are saying is that we won't see "the data as spun by CG to EA execs". Profitability is one thing. A drop in sales over the past year clearly indicates a decline in player spending - no matter how you want to spin it.

    I don't really care one way or the other. But suggesting there's "no data" isn't being completely honest. I'm just trying to be objective - CG_Carrie has every reason not to be.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Liath wrote: »
    Maybe their subscriptions are down because people have realized they don’t actually have anything useful to say.

    or decided that if they wanted to watch "A 40 Year Old Virgin", that the Steve Carel version is waaaaay better.
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