Is it worth it to go past 100% potency?

Yerff_Caasi

Ok, I need this settled--how does it work when potency and tenacity stats go above 100%? I know that 100% potency is supposed to make you land the debuff every time, except that there's an irreducible 15% chance of it being resisted (even if the enemy has 0% tenacity, there's always a 15% chance of resist). And 100% tenacity is supposed to make it impossible to be debuffed (except, again, I think there's a 15% chance?). But as if that isn't complicated enough...
What happens when the stats are over 100%? Say I have 150% potency and my enemy has 110% tenacity? Do I have an 15%(100-85) chance to apply the debuff, or do I have a 40%(150-110) chance, or is it something else?
Can someone please break down, in detail, how the math works out when the values are over 100%? Because I want to know if it's worth it to mod a toon past 100% potency. Do I just get my debuffers to 100% and call it a day? Or do I need to mod to say 200%, so that I can still debuff toons with 100% tenacity?
This is all very confusing, and I'd appreciate a breakdown, thanks.

Waqui

Yerff_Caasi wrote: »

Ok, I need this settled--how does it work when potency and tenacity stats go above 100%? I know that 100% potency is supposed to make you land the debuff every time, except that there's an irreducible 15% chance of it being resisted (even if the enemy has 0% tenacity, there's always a 15% chance of resist). And 100% tenacity is supposed to make it impossible to be debuffed (except, again, I think there's a 15% chance?).

That's not correct. What matters is the difference between the potency of the source of the debuff and the tenacity og the target. 100% guarantees nothing.

There's a 15% base minimum chance to resist, but no base chance for the debuff to stick.

Fixer

Got me intrigued, so it's worth it for the enemies that bulk up their tenacity and keeping it at 15% chance to fail? Also I guess that would mean (if possible) 185% max potency to bother for anyone that has (if possible) 200% tenacity

Juzz

First check -》
Probability to get the debuff going:
Depends on attackers ability. Will multiply second check

Second check -》
Probability to not get debuffed:

2% from evasion [0.02]
+
98%*15% minimum resist [0.98*0.15]
=
16.7% (a bit more than 1 out of 6)

If cannot be evaded, then 15%
If cannot be resisted, then 2%
If target is immune, then 100%

Tenacity - Potency can get the minimum 15% higher

Conclusions:
Mean tenacity before mods of g12+5 is 39.45% and mean potency is 38.24% which means they almost nullify each other (not counting bonuses from abilities).

So for the average attacker against the average defender, more than +115% is ost probably going to be wasted.

Notes:
Attack (damage) and debuff have separate evasion tests. Easiest example to see it is with a team of C-3PO and 4 ewoks. The basic attack of ewok misses but the expose goes through.

kieltrx

Juzz wrote: »

First check -》
Probability to get the debuff going:
Depends on attackers ability. Will multiply second check

Second check -》
Probability to not get debuffed:

2% from evasion [0.02]
+
98%*15% minimum resist [0.98*0.15]
=
16.7% (a bit more than 1 out of 6)

If cannot be evaded, then 15%
If cannot be resisted, then 2%
If target is immune, then 100%

Tenacity - Potency can get the minimum 15% higher

Conclusions:
Mean tenacity before mods of g12+5 is 39.45% and mean potency is 38.24% which means they almost nullify each other (not counting bonuses from abilities).

So for the average attacker against the average defender, more than +115% is ost probably going to be wasted.

Notes:
Attack (damage) and debuff have separate evasion tests. Easiest example to see it is with a team of C-3PO and 4 ewoks. The basic attack of ewok misses but the expose goes through.

I didn't understand anything.. did you even take the OP's stats into this math?

Kisakee

Potency and Tenacity cancel each other out. So if you have 200% Potency and your opponent 150% Tenacity you have a 100% chance of landing the debuff. Additional there is a 15% chance that the debuff will fail, regardless of stat values. These 15% can't be negated in any way so even with a 100% chance in math it can miss, that's the RNG factor.

Edit: math correction

kieltrx

So after the potency-tenacity calculation, if the result is landing a debuff, there is still one more check for this 15% of resisting debuff, right?

Kisakee

kieltrx wrote: »

So after the potency-tenacity calculation, if the result is landing a debuff, there is still one more check for this 15% of resisting debuff, right?

That is how i understand it.

leef

Yerff_Caasi wrote: »

Ok, I need this settled--how does it work when potency and tenacity stats go above 100%? I know that 100% potency is supposed to make you land the debuff every time, except that there's an irreducible 15% chance of it being resisted (even if the enemy has 0% tenacity, there's always a 15% chance of resist). And 100% tenacity is supposed to make it impossible to be debuffed (except, again, I think there's a 15% chance?). But as if that isn't complicated enough...
What happens when the stats are over 100%? Say I have 150% potency and my enemy has 110% tenacity? Do I have an 15%(100-85) chance to apply the debuff, or do I have a 40%(150-110) chance, or is it something else?
Can someone please break down, in detail, how the math works out when the values are over 100%? Because I want to know if it's worth it to mod a toon past 100% potency. Do I just get my debuffers to 100% and call it a day? Or do I need to mod to say 200%, so that I can still debuff toons with 100% tenacity?
This is all very confusing, and I'd appreciate a breakdown, thanks.

potency is just a way to mitigate the effect of tenacity. Tenacity is there to decrease the chance of getting debuffed.
So basically potency does NOT increase the chance to debuff, it just decreases the chance you'll be resisted. If there's no tenacity that increases the chances of being resisted, potency does nothing. There's no difference in the chance to debuff between 0% potency and 200% potency, unless there's tenacity to be countered.
Hopefully that makes sense and hopefully the formula used makes more sense once you're looking at it that way.
tenacity (increases the chance to resist) - potency (mitigates the effect of tenacity) = chance to resist
There's always a 15% base minimum chance to resist a debuff, but there's no base minimum chance to debuff.
It doesn't matter if the toons have 1010% vs 1050% or 10% vs 50%, the chance to debuff/resist remains the same.

Kisakee

leef wrote: »

potency is just a way to mitigate the effect of tenacity. Tenacity is there to decrease the chance of getting debuffed.
So basically potency does NOT increase the chance to debuff, it just decreases the chance you'll be resisted. If there's no tenacity that increases the chances of being resisted, potency does nothing. There's no difference in the chance to debuff between 0% potency and 200% potency, unless there's tenacity to be countered.
Hopefully that makes sense and hopefully the formula used makes more sense once you're looking at it that way.
tenacity (increases the chance to resist) - potency (mitigates the effect of tenacity) = chance to resist
There's always a 15% base minimum chance to resist a debuff, but there's no base minimum chance to debuff.
It doesn't matter if the toons have 1010% vs 1050% or 10% vs 50%, the chance to debuff/resist remains the same.

Ah man, you're right. Got that twisted in my mind. So it's like that:
If your Potency cancel out the enemies Tenacity, the debuff will get through with a 100% - the 15% of resisting it by default.

Mephisto_style

Is it worth stacking them? Absolutely. It's still more important to be faster than that team though. A combination of some potency and offense is what makes my CLS team usuable. Check out the screenshots. I am imposing my crowd control debuffs all the time against this team with my CLS team. People say all the time that damage output is what makes it formidable, but without those potent debuffs the team can't win.

FistyCuffs

Mephisto_style wrote: »

Is it worth stacking them? Absolutely. It's still more important to be faster than that team though. A combination of some potency and offense is what makes my CLS team usuable. Check out the screenshots. I am imposing my crowd control debuffs all the time against this team with my CLS team. People say all the time that damage output is what makes it formidable, but without those potent debuffs the team can't win.

Mephisto_style wrote: »

Is it worth stacking them? Absolutely. It's still more important to be faster than that team though. A combination of some potency and offense is what makes my CLS team usuable. Check out the screenshots. I am imposing my crowd control debuffs all the time against this team with my CLS team. People say all the time that damage output is what makes it formidable, but without those potent debuffs the team can't win.

Mephisto_style wrote: »

Is it worth stacking them? Absolutely. It's still more important to be faster than that team though. A combination of some potency and offense is what makes my CLS team usuable. Check out the screenshots. I am imposing my crowd control debuffs all the time against this team with my CLS team. People say all the time that damage output is what makes it formidable, but without those potent debuffs the team can't win.

Put more speed, offense and Crit damage on han and chewie and kill bastila first.. you won’t get any of those nasty debuffs on your squad

leef

^ 7/10
all points earned by quoting a comment with a gazillion images 3 times in 1 response without removing the images. That's some advanced forumming right there. Scroll you peasants!

Mephisto_style

@leef @FistyCuffs
For.all the mods.I have available.to me I believe I have them modded perfectly
My shortcoming is gear levels.

Banmeong

Excuse me, my Nest tenacity is 126% and enemy Logray potency is 80%. Logray several times dazed my Nest. Is it because the 15% chance to land debuffs? Sorry bad english I am Indonesian..

Yerff_Caasi

Thanks everyone for trying to explain it to me, I think I get it now... Though tbh I'm not sure everyone answered the same thing.

leef

Banmeong wrote: »

Excuse me, my Nest tenacity is 126% and enemy Logray potency is 80%. Logray several times dazed my Nest. Is it because the 15% chance to land debuffs? Sorry bad english I am Indonesian..

126% tenacity nest - 80% potency logray = 46% chance to resist (54% chance for the debuff to land)
There isn't a minimum chance to land a debuff. If you've got 100% more tenacity than the attack has potency you'll resist everything with the exception of unresistable debuffs.