Geonosian Spy Kit Changes [MEGA]

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Sunnie1978
2936 posts Moderator
DEV POST
CG_SBCrumb wrote: »

Hi Holotable Heroes,

We wanted to let you know in advance that we will be changing Geonosian Spy’s kit at the same time we release Geonosian Brood Alpha. Similar to our changes to HK-47, this character’s kit was designed very early in Galaxy of Heroes’ life and now severely limits our design space of future characters in this faction. In general, any character with that much turn meter gain is usually a red flag for us when we are creating new units.

If you have seen Geonosian Brood Alpha kit you will find that the current version of Geonosian Spy’s kit will create an infinite loop fairly easily. To mitigate this in the short term, we will be nerfing Spy’s kit along with the release of the Brood Alpha and since this significantly impacts that ability, we will be returning all Ability Materials that you used to upgrade his Unique 1: Illicit Insect.

Also this isn’t Geonosian Spy’s final molt...errr, evolution. We will be making some updates to Spy in the future but aren't quite ready to share those changes just yet.

OLD:
Geonosian Spy gains Stealth for 3 turns at the start of each encounter and whenever he scores a Critical Hit. Whenever a Geonosian ally inflicts a negative status effect, Geonosian Spy gains 70% Turn Meter.

NEW:
Geonosian Spy gains Stealth for 3 turns at the start of each encounter and whenever he scores a Critical Hit. Whenever a Geonosian ally inflicts a negative status effect during their turn, Geonosian Spy gains 20% Turn Meter.


DEV POST

Replies

  • Tbirds01
    1235 posts Member
    Bit of a bummer, liked his big turn meter gain.
    Tag me if you reply to my comment so I know I should answer you!😀 My roster: https://swgoh.gg/p/842694912/
  • CCyrilS
    6671 posts Member
    Wonder about Padme event now. Spy was a super hero for me, now will people be forced to farm someone else instead?
  • CCyrilS wrote: »
    Wonder about Padme event now. Spy was a super hero for me, now will people be forced to farm someone else instead?

    Overall with all the reworks/additions it has to be way easier. A new spy is coming anyways, but even as is it’s hard to imagine many people are going to find all the reworks a net loss.
  • CamaroAMF
    1206 posts Member
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Wonder about Padme event now. Spy was a super hero for me, now will people be forced to farm someone else instead?

    I don’t see the unique change here impacting the Padme event at all. Not a whole lot of Geonosians landing debuffs in that event. Nothing at all changed with his special, at least not yet, and that’s what made him huge for the event.
  • Ultra
    9351 posts Moderator
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Wonder about Padme event now. Spy was a super hero for me, now will people be forced to farm someone else instead?
    Spy was a hero for me too. They only changed his TM gain, which didn't really do anything for me in Padme's event. He still hits very hard with his special, so I don't think it changes anything
  • I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources
  • How can you possibly nerf an already impossibly outdated and pre nerf, nerfed character? Next I suppose his moves will be non-lethal like CUP.
  • CCyrilS
    6671 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Wonder about Padme event now. Spy was a super hero for me, now will people be forced to farm someone else instead?
    Spy was a hero for me too. They only changed his TM gain, which didn't really do anything for me in Padme's event. He still hits very hard with his special, so I don't think it changes anything

    It's probably a very small impact overall. But I could see a match going in a way that getting that TM full to one-shot an enemy before the enemy destroys you could be huge. Idk about everyone else, but even a winning match is usually very close.

    I imagine most will be farming new toons anyway. Guess I should have waited for the real complain threads?
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?
  • Fixer wrote: »
    What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?

    Ig 88 lead. Geo Alpha, Spy, Sun Fac, Soldier. As soon as Spy takes a turn it’s game over against most teams out there. No one else will move.
  • TVF
    31661 posts Member
    I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources

    No they are not nerfing them. How on Geonosis did you decide that's what they're doing.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of the change to the shipment tab. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    Fixer wrote: »
    What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?

    Ig 88 lead. Geo Alpha, Spy, Sun Fac, Soldier. As soon as Spy takes a turn it’s game over against most teams out there. No one else will move.

    Wanna try elaborating with evidence/explanation rather than just state a squad and dismissing me? Because I went and refreshed my mind and as I stated yet even worse since I read up the new units there's literally just 4 units that can debuff? Finding an infinite loop isn't really possible except under very specific situations, and tbh their changing of the unique at least in my eyes is protecting the unskilled and lack of thoughtfulness players, most intelligent players will have some form of tenacity in their squad or have natural tenacity.

    The squad you actually stated would only have geo brood alpha with 1 of his specials able to inflict an expose to each enemy, IF he's even successful on 1 or more and the other toon being sun fac who can only inflict a debuff once with a special aswell but on a single target and not garunteed yet again as I stated against tenacity as none of these are even given the privilege of unavoidable. Not even geo brute can inflict a debuff and the I won't even address a second time that geo spy requires specific situations to debuff that most people wouldn't choose. I will however address though that geo brood himself in fact nerfs spy on his own? He mass clears buffs which makes spy extra damage a loss.

    In all honesty I also checked poggle aka I checked every form of team that could contribute this TM gain to spy and the list is as follows;

    Geo brood alpha
    Sun Fac
    Poggle
    And Spy himself

    All of these toons can only inflict debuffs with specials except for Poggle, he can't inflict any with specials, a) that makes all of them rare as there'll be cool down to trigger the TM gain and b) they all depend on success of inflicting the debuff and let me tell you now most if not all of them you don't gear mods towards potency as primary or your doing something wrong.

    Yes Poggle can inflict with every assist he gets this part can be true in terms of some infinite loop however the ability itself states at 60% chance and that's before the enemy teams tenacity is considered and RNG itself, stack this with spy's basic which is quite lackluster to his special this wouldn't have even been that overpowering, I could understand a reduction in the TM gain to like 60% maybe even 50% to get in line with geonosian soldier who btw is much more likely to get infinite loop and is definitely the more powerful of the 2 but is pretty much clone sergeant reskinned.

    The only other reason I see them changing it is geo brood alpha triggering illicit (unique) 5 times because its inflicted to 5 enemies in an ideal world equalling immediate turn, if that's the case it's easily solvable to include new details of illicit insect only triggering once per turn of ally which was probably too much work for them and this is the quicker easier fix for them? And maybe Poggle inflicting ability block with each assist yet this is heavily RNG dependent and I'm assuming won't trigger if used on someone already ability blocked? Maybe it's because the whole team is assist on steroids compared to the clone team that they are already super powerful yet I don't see this team even closely challenging the meta.

    TL,DR this seems like laziness in choice and obviously code time and costs can factor, but I don't see any reason other than that for this choice, in the areas where infinite loop are a problem; raids, squad arena and TB they are already not much of a problem for infinite loops due to any tenacity and the fact that specials stay on cool down making the unique untriggerable for a good part of time and secondly when someone tries or decides to trigger these extra turns they lose the usefulness of geo spy, his basic is lackluster compared to his special and his special is easily nerfed by geo brood alpha and his mass dispel.
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources

    No they are not nerfing them. How on Geonosis did you decide that's what they're doing.

    They have unquestionably nerfed geonosian spy even if the geonosian team themselves are now gods with the amount of assists
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    Honestly this is an insanely crazy massive nerf like they could've purely kept the denotion of the new ability being in a genosians own turn but still at 70% TM the only person this effects is Poggle as his basic is the only one that can trigger on basic attack? Poggle himself isn't even useful in a geonosian team most of the time and with this they insure he won't be with such small TM gain, his basic attacks aren't even garunteed to debuff.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    Fixer wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources

    No they are not nerfing them. How on Geonosis did you decide that's what they're doing.

    They have unquestionably nerfed geonosian spy even if the geonosian team themselves are now gods with the amount of assists

    It’s temporary. He is getting a rework later that they haven’t revealed yet, along with other geos. It is clear that the faction as a whole is getting buffed. Relax.
  • I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources

    They aren’t done doing reworks/touch ups on them. I presume a couple of them will have stronger debuffs and all. Plus they aren’t worthless anyway as they do pilot some pretty good ships to make another Capital team.
  • I love how some people are complaining about the nerf. 😂😂😂

    I’ve been seeing Geos running rampant in Arena and it’s becoming too much. Geos def ruining the game 😜
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Fixer wrote: »

    In all honesty I also checked poggle aka I checked every form of team that could contribute this TM gain to spy and the list is as follows;

    Geo brood alpha
    Sun Fac
    Poggle
    And Spy himself
    + every geonosian under ig88 lead...
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources

    No they are not nerfing them. How on Geonosis did you decide that's what they're doing.

    They have unquestionably nerfed geonosian spy even if the geonosian team themselves are now gods with the amount of assists

    It’s temporary. He is getting a rework later that they haven’t revealed yet, along with other geos. It is clear that the faction as a whole is getting buffed. Relax.

    Fair enough I did forget that this was mentioned however he is left in a really dismal spot during the time he's left like that, especially for those who won't have geo brood alpha or a terrible Poggle it kind of makes him much harder to use
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »

    In all honesty I also checked poggle aka I checked every form of team that could contribute this TM gain to spy and the list is as follows;

    Geo brood alpha
    Sun Fac
    Poggle
    And Spy himself
    + every geonosian under ig88 lead...

    Dude just like the person before you quoted a team without explanation luckily I reread a 2nd time since this morning and have noticed that he allows criticals to inflict DoT... good point I genuinely missed that many times and didn't think of the implications lol
  • NicWester
    8621 posts Member
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Wonder about Padme event now. Spy was a super hero for me, now will people be forced to farm someone else instead?
    Probably not. By the time Padme comes around again the Spy’s full rework will be in effect and he’ll be ready to go. Moreover, you’re mostly using him to one-shot fools, meaning his tm gain was a liability—more turns fewer buffs to boost damage. Besides, you weren’t landing debuffs to trigger his effect anyway, not with her leader ability in effect.
    I think the bugs are pretty worthless. And now they are nerfing them? That just makes them more worthless now. And yes I do have them at g12. Waste of resources

    If you have a g12 Spy then you had him for fleet and therefore this change doesn’t affect you at all. Don’t front like your g12 spy was the cornerstone on which the entire foundation of your team rested......
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    Fixer wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »
    What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?

    Ig 88 lead. Geo Alpha, Spy, Sun Fac, Soldier. As soon as Spy takes a turn it’s game over against most teams out there. No one else will move.

    Wanna try elaborating with evidence/explanation rather than just state a squad and dismissing me?

    Ig88 lead gives everyone the ability to debuff on every attack. You are calling a mass assist on every move. Game over.
  • Fixer
    150 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »
    What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?

    Ig 88 lead. Geo Alpha, Spy, Sun Fac, Soldier. As soon as Spy takes a turn it’s game over against most teams out there. No one else will move.

    Wanna try elaborating with evidence/explanation rather than just state a squad and dismissing me?

    Ig88 lead gives everyone the ability to debuff on every attack. You are calling a mass assist on every move. Game over.

    Yeah I reread ig88 and eventually noticed that which is quite an interesting idea, it really does seem pretty dumb to nerf TM gain that much for one leader possibility, honestly they couldve kept the whole only during their turn part with a fairly high TM gain I accept maybe not 70% and yet it would still do the trick and not harm the toon too much purely because ig88 could be a leader
  • Ultra
    9351 posts Moderator
    Fixer wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »
    Fixer wrote: »
    What??? Even if geo brood applies debuffs geo soldier doesn't last I checked and so there's literally less than half of the geo toons that can incite the TM gain, that's if the potency is high enough and let's get real how often does the enemy not have buffs to allow spy to debuff or more realistically when will we ever target someone that'll produce less heavy attack? Add the fact that sun fac is slow regardless of progression and rarely applies debuffs and quite useless then how does it become beneficial to have small TM per geo ally?

    Ig 88 lead. Geo Alpha, Spy, Sun Fac, Soldier. As soon as Spy takes a turn it’s game over against most teams out there. No one else will move.

    Wanna try elaborating with evidence/explanation rather than just state a squad and dismissing me?

    Ig88 lead gives everyone the ability to debuff on every attack. You are calling a mass assist on every move. Game over.

    Yeah I reread ig88 and eventually noticed that which is quite an interesting idea, it really does seem pretty dumb to nerf TM gain that much for one leader possibility, honestly they couldve kept the whole only during their turn part with a fairly high TM gain I accept maybe not 70% and yet it would still do the trick and not harm the toon too much purely because ig88 could be a leader
    Lets not forget they are being forward thinking:
    this character’s kit was designed very early in Galaxy of Heroes’ life and now severely limits our design space of future characters in this faction.

    Geos will also be getting reworks, it looks like, and to allow them to debuff in basics, they would need to address this
  • The reason it had to be restricted to during their turn is because of Sun Fac, whose debuff does apply on his basic (critical chance down, which is applied when he attacks out of turn), though the debuff comes from his unique. Between him and Poggle, that’s two shots to gain TM every time any ally moves, and with SF, Spy has the chance to restart the loop whenever SF counters.
This discussion has been closed.