To sum it up, we used to farm characters, now we are farming entire teams at once.
Eh, not really. That's mainly a thing for the Old Republic farms that were basically generating factions from scratch, but other than that?
Yes, you have to build up different teams of different factions, but that's always been the game. Most meta/event teams have been two or three old established characters, two or three new hotness characters.
Going back in time?
Devan, HK, Bast, Malak, Trooper. Three new toons. Two old solid toons.
Padme and a number of lineups, but let's say GK, Ani, Snips, R2. All old, established toons who've been useful for one reason or another at various points. The only toon competing for a spot in Padme's lineup who's new is 3PO.
Kevan, Bast, Jolee, Yoda, GK. Three new, two old.
Current CLS. Slot the new Chewie and 3PO into the old Titans.
Separatist droids. Two new, three old. One of the droids is often displaced by Nute, who is very old and easy to gear.
We've got the upcoming Geonosian team, which is four very old characters, several of them launch characters, three of them pilots who a lot of people have lying around at high gear. Just one new unit to make that work.
Now there's Shaak troopers. One new leader and four old clones.
Hunters for Chewie. Lot of shiny new hunters happened, but you only needed Bossk with four old school hunters to make a good team.
Ewoks for 3PO. All of them had been good and around for a hot minute.
Sith. Nightmare had one new unit in Sion. Traya had two in Sion and Traya herself.
Bastila Jedi. This was one new unit with four old since Jolee hadn't caught on yet.
Qi'ra Scoundrels. New team, but little incentive to actively farm it. Just a couple new units and some stray scoundrels you probably already have was enough for anything you need them for. The rest is a luxury for TW and now GA. A good luxury, but still a luxury. But it was one of the rare cases of a new, full five-person team being added.
JTR. To really get this working in Nightmare, you needed three new units; JTR, BB-8, and Holdo.
Nightsisters. They were pretty trash before the rework other than Asajj, so they were almost from scratch.
Titans. At the time, CLS and Thrawn were pretty new hotness toons, put alongside old staples Han, GK, and moderately established R2.
Phoenix squad was the last time before Revan where we got a full lineup in preparation for an event. Five new toons who went farmable very shortly before Thrawn happened.
That more or less covers major teams of the last two years, and the general trend has been a couple new, a couple old. That hasn't really changed.
This chart reads very easily. The mark of carbanti inflow has been %50 more one year than the year before it. That's not 3x-4x but the overall economical impact is rather significant.
This chart is ****. They needed to make this chart legible by adding more information. This is just a positive sloped squiggly line. Sure what Cyanides said is “true” but until they tell us what the X and Y axis are then I call ****. Why not just be 100% honest...
They don’t want us to know what the X and Y are because then we would be in an uproar. This is not transparency. This is a vague attempt at quelling apprehensions.
This chart is ****. They needed to make this chart legible by adding more information. This is just a positive sloped squiggly line. Sure what Cyanides said is “true” but until they tell us what the X and Y axis are then I call ****. Why not just be 100% honest...
They don’t want us to know what the X and Y are because then we would be in an uproar. This is not transparency. This is a vague attempt at quelling apprehensions.
We know what X is. We know what Y is. It's in the title, even if the axes aren't labeled. The exact timeframe down to the week is irrelevant to the point being made. The actual precise number is not important on our end; proportion is really all that matters. And looking at that graph, we're talking a 60-75% increase depending on where you put zero.
You could call that interpretation into question, but a logic check against all the stuff they've added to the game and the various sources of carbs they've added says that's a pretty reasonable number. TB, GET store, TW, GA, continuously increasing shard shop income, new raid adding guild currency/GET, daily box. All things that increase carbanti income, and a 60-75% rise is not an implausible increase in that context.
You can call into question the lack of labels, but it's not meaningless, and it is consistent.
What labels could you possibly put on there that would cause an uproar? On what grounds could you possibly think carbanti income hasn't gone up significantly with the addition of all these new income sources and game modes?
This chart reads very easily. The mark of carbanti inflow has been %50 more one year than the year before it. That's not 3x-4x but the overall economical impact is rather significant.
This chart is ****. They needed to make this chart legible by adding more information. This is just a positive sloped squiggly line. Sure what Cyanides said is “true” but until they tell us what the X and Y axis are then I call ****. Why not just be 100% honest...
They don’t want us to know what the X and Y are because then we would be in an uproar. This is not transparency. This is a vague attempt at quelling apprehensions.
X is time, Y is amount. The amount is not clear. But there are scales on the chart. These are pretty safe assumptions and how any chart presented as such would read. Any reality not fitting these assumptions would be deceitful. And I don't believe it's deceitful. They just don't want to give out an amount which would then cause other types of uproars and future assumptions/demands.
@CG_Cyanides are you able to blink if the axis are such and the chart's bottom indicates zero?
There seems to be a lot honing in on the word “Carbanti” here and I don’t think it has anything to do with OP’s post outside his reference to Cyanide.
Of course, higher gear tiers require a lot more gear (save for certain easy-to-gear saints). Simultaneously, the number of characters we’re expected to have geared has increased to match the difficulty of new content.
There has been an effort to alleviate the gear crunch, but they’ve simply been outpaced.
If you disagree with OP, essentially the argument you’re making is that we aren’t expected to spend gear at a higher rate now than two years ago relative to gear availability.
(^Which is totally valid and possibly correct, though I personally lean towards OP’s opinion)
What labels could you possibly put on there that would cause an uproar? On what grounds could you possibly think carbanti income hasn't gone up significantly with the addition of all these new income sources and game modes?
The labels that would cause an uproar would how little Carbanti’s are given to us.
Because how do you simply label a graph that has to take into account the percent chance we get carbantis dropping from raid rewards. Because I LOOK at my Raid rewards (Sith or Tank) and I have not gotten Carbantis in the past two weeks. It has been longer but I have only been keeping track for 2 weeks. (That is why this squiggly line graph is ****).
Still haven’t once received 7 Carbantis from challenges.
Sure they show up more in a store, but there are golden eyeballs in that same store too. There are Mk 5 Stun Guns in shard store along with a plethora of other highly needed gear. Oh, and now, we have the Kyrotech pieces for what seems like every new character since DRevan...
The way CG proves that more Carbantis are making it into our rosters is to guarantee a set amount of carbantis as rewards from either raids, TBs or something. The amount of useless non needed gear I get from TB, HSith and Tank Raids plus the Rancor Raid is annoying. What good does it do to a player to have them choose from between Mk 4 Zaltin Gels, golden eyeballs, Carbantis and Mk 5 Detonators in one shop when NONE of those dropped as rewards in the raids that generates that currency? “Oh btw, we added more carbantis!”
So thanks for “behind the math” putting “more” carbantis in the game, instead of just actually giving us more carbantis in a tangible way.
This chart reads very easily. The mark of carbanti inflow has been %50 more one year than the year before it. That's not 3x-4x but the overall economical impact is rather significant.
This chart is ****. They needed to make this chart legible by adding more information. This is just a positive sloped squiggly line. Sure what Cyanides said is “true” but until they tell us what the X and Y axis are then I call ****. Why not just be 100% honest...
They don’t want us to know what the X and Y are because then we would be in an uproar. This is not transparency. This is a vague attempt at quelling apprehensions.
Exactly. I skipped thru 5 pages to see the end, but basically, without knowing the axis,we can't say 50-75%. The axis could be skewed and the increase could be 5%, but it's an increase
Supply has not kept up with demand. Without evidence, I can't support that 1-2 years ago, the amount of toons most people need requiring a carbanti was more than current status, then they have done something to allievate the burden. If not, then the inflation of carbanti has not kept up with the inflation of characters.
What an odd time to release this information. Long ago, before raids and guilds, there were only 3 ways to get cabantis - in the challenge, for 1400 crystals in the store (no 20packs), or by farming them. Stun guns and cuffs were even worse. Buy them for crystals or farm 50. This may sound familiar...
Since then, they've added the Pit raid, guild store, shard shop, guild event store, fleet store (it used to have gear available), guild event store, TBs, TWs, and weekly shipments. Vastly more options for getting cuffs, guns, and carbs. Which is great!
But a few months ago, they added new gear that regresses back to that old state where you either farm 50 or buy through the store. It's possible that this new gear will be available in the upcoming GTB and GE2 stores, but why not wait until then to post a "look at our progress!" gear post? Odd.
What an odd time to release this information. Long ago, before raids and guilds, there were only 3 ways to get cabantis - in the challenge, for 1400 crystals in the store (no 20packs), or by farming them. Stun guns and cuffs were even worse. Buy them for crystals or farm 50. This may sound familiar...
Since then, they've added the Pit raid, guild store, shard shop, guild event store, fleet store (it used to have gear available), guild event store, TBs, TWs, and weekly shipments. Vastly more options for getting cuffs, guns, and carbs. Which is great!
But a few months ago, they added new gear that regresses back to that old state where you either farm 50 or buy through the store. It's possible that this new gear will be available in the upcoming GTB and GE2 stores, but why not wait until then to post a "look at our progress!" gear post? Odd.
The labels that would cause an uproar would how little Carbanti’s are given to us.
Because how do you simply label a graph that has to take into account the percent chance we get carbantis dropping from raid rewards. Because I LOOK at my Raid rewards (Sith or Tank) and I have not gotten Carbantis in the past two weeks. It has been longer but I have only been keeping track for 2 weeks. (That is why this squiggly line graph is ****).
Still haven’t once received 7 Carbantis from challenges.
Sure they show up more in a store, but there are golden eyeballs in that same store too. There are Mk 5 Stun Guns in shard store along with a plethora of other highly needed gear. Oh, and now, we have the Kyrotech pieces for what seems like every new character since DRevan...
The way CG proves that more Carbantis are making it into our rosters is to guarantee a set amount of carbantis as rewards from either raids, TBs or something. The amount of useless non needed gear I get from TB, HSith and Tank Raids plus the Rancor Raid is annoying. What good does it do to a player to have them choose from between Mk 4 Zaltin Gels, golden eyeballs, Carbantis and Mk 5 Detonators in one shop when NONE of those dropped as rewards in the raids that generates that currency? “Oh btw, we added more carbantis!”
So thanks for “behind the math” putting “more” carbantis in the game, instead of just actually giving us more carbantis in a tangible way.
It's not, "Sure they show up more in a store, but."
It's, "They show up in a store, and that's a source."
Yes, there is opportunity cost. There is ALWAYS opportunity cost. Just because you had the opportunity to buy something else with your currency doesn't invalidate the purchase. The many ways they've increased currency income with which you can buy carbantis is a large part of how carbanti income has gone up. It's not just about random drops.
That chart is a rolling average of carbanti income. Not carbanti drops. Carbanti income. And a lot of that rise is because of currency increases, where people choose to spend currency on carbantis. Yes, there is opportunity cost. There is always opportunity cost. But the strength of currency rewards is you can spend it on what you want. And what people want to use it on is sometimes eyeballs or stun guns, but a significant portion of it is carbantis because they are high demand. And that is reflected in the graph; it's a rolling average income, so what portion of the allotted currency individual players choose to spend on carbantis vice other opportunities is already accounted for, and carbanti income has still risen considerably.
They should make the chart how many you get vs how many you need lol,that just shows nothing with the amount of new heroes that need those.
Also where is that chart for stun guns?That one is way worse,but i guess they coudnt try to fool us if they used the stun guns chart.
How would you suggest graphing that?
Will it be measured by the number of carbantis required for newly released units over time? That would be a function of the average carbanti requirement of new units in a time period times the rate at which new characters come out.
So far this year, we've had six new characters. Three event toons, B1, Droideka, and Shaak Ti. They require 1250 carbantis total. That's 208 and a third carbantis per toon. Very slightly below average on a per-unit basis, but for our purposes we can round it off and say the per-unit carbanti demand is average so far this year. While I don't recall if Devan's event did it, too, but I know Padme's included some gear including at least one carbanti to offset her gearing requirements, making that 1250 a bit of a high ball in practice.
Discounting the initial 65 toons who were in the game at launch, CG has added an average of about 30 toons per year. That means 15 per half-year. This year, CG has placed higher emphasis on reworks than new releases; nine reworks to six new unit releases. But that means the character release rate for the first half of the year is 40% of usual.
That means so far this year, if we are measuring carbanti demand by the rate at which new units call for carbantis, this six month window is calling for carbantis at 40% of the average rate across game life. We need far fewer carbantis so far this year, even though two of the units- Revan and Droideka- need a substantial number of carbs (300 each).
Rate of carb demand as a result of new units has been down tremendously for six months. And that's not a negligible window. Six months is one seventh the total span of the game.
And let's take a look at those 1250 carbs that were added to total demand in a six month window.
Just looking at challenges, you get about 20 per challenge day, three times a week, and in 26 weeks, that comes out to 1560 carbantis. Before even accounting for any carbanti source, challenge gear is enough to outfit all of the new units this year with their carbantis.
So that perception of rising carbanti demand isn't a result of new units. Which gets back to the initial question. How do you suggest graphing that alleged rise in carbanti demand?
Exactly. I skipped thru 5 pages to see the end, but basically, without knowing the axis,we can't say 50-75%. The axis could be skewed and the increase could be 5%, but it's an increase
Supply has not kept up with demand. Without evidence, I can't support that 1-2 years ago, the amount of toons most people need requiring a carbanti was more than current status, then they have done something to allievate the burden. If not, then the inflation of carbanti has not kept up with the inflation of characters.
What demand? How do you define demand in this case?
I already covered how rate of increase in carbanti demand based on new units is down considerably. I contend that this perceived demand is not something new.
Rather, CG is doing things we've been asking them to do for a long time. Bringing new value to old units and rewarding broader rosters in new modes. This does not increase the overall carb load. Rather, it accentuates load that has been there the whole time.
Dooku, Nute, IG-1000, Poggle, and Geonosian Soldier are launch toons. Geonosian Spy, Sun Fac, B2, and Grievous are year one toons. Yes, people are gearing them now because it's been a long time since any of them have been relevant, but they've been here the whole time. Hard to reasonably count three year old toons as an increase in carbanti demand.
“Yes, there is opportunity cost. There is ALWAYS opportunity cost. Just because you had the opportunity to buy something else with your currency doesn't invalidate the purchase. The many ways they've increased currency income with which you can buy carbantis is a large part of how carbanti income has gone up. It's not just about random drops.”
“That chart is a rolling average of carbanti income. Not carbanti drops. Carbanti income.”
So I posted my TB rewards that take a week to earn. I earned GET and got Zero Mk3 Carbs. I now have to use that GET to buy them along with other heavily needed gear. I did not receive any “income” of carbs. Just the opportunity to buy more. Income is earned by doing something. I did a TB and did not earn a Mk 3 Carb. I now have to way my options as to what gear I want to buy. If I don’t purchase Carbs then I do not have a net increase in Carb income.
Edit: Just for funnzies - there aren’t any Mk3 Carb in my GET store after the TB either. But hey I have a chance...
So I posted my TB rewards that take a week to earn. I earned GET and got Zero Mk3 Carbs. I now have to use that GET to buy them along with other heavily needed gear. I did not receive any “income” of carbs. Just the opportunity to buy more. Income is earned by doing something. I did a TB and did not earn a Mk 3 Carb. I now have to way my options as to what gear I want to buy. If I don’t purchase Carbs then I do not have a net increase in Carb income.
The point of currency rewards over gear rewards is to give you the choice. To empower you to get the rewards you want.
If you want carbantis, that currency can get them for you. You can choose to increase your carbanti income using that currency. And if you choose not to? That is because you made the decision. You and no one else. If you choose not to spend currency on carbantis, that is your decision. And in the case of GET, it's generally a less practical spend than shard shop currency and guild tokens.
The graph is a rollng average of income. That means it does NOT account for currency that theoretically have gone to carbantis but didn't. The currency only impacts that graph is someone CHOOSES to spend it on carbantis. So after every other possible mitigating factor has come into play.
Yes there are other things you can do with that currency. No matter what choice you make with it, there are a dozen other things you can choose. But no matter what you do with that currency, it will get you SOMETHING.
What you're doing right now is a dishonest shell game to buy your way out of giving CG credit at all. You're acting like the currency gets you nothing by pretending spending it on something is not worth consideration because it could be spent on something else. Which is nonsense.
Currency gets you stuff. It gets you a variety of stuff. Some portion of it will go to one thing. Some portion will go toward another. What portion? Conveniently, we've got a nice graph giving us some idea how that proportion actually impacts things!
If your increased currency that could go toward carbantis does not actually increase your carbanti income, that's on you. Not on CG. You are the one actively making that decision. Do not blame CG for your choices.
This chart reads very easily. The mark of carbanti inflow has been %50 more one year than the year before it. That's not 3x-4x but the overall economical impact is rather significant.
/sarcasim
Is that a 50% increase on 0 like the GA zeta to fleet double drops?
Guess I have to buy them with currency. Ok so the choice is on me to get more Carbs. Sweet. So then I have to lack in Golden eyeballs, stun guns and cuffs....
Then I have to hoard crystals for Kyrotech.
Their graph should show more information. Sure players are getting more Carbs from store by using currency. What increase is the graph showing? How much of an increase? I am draw a positive sloping squiggly line too. They are simply making a feel good post about the gear grind that they set in place. Why say this now? Why, after introducing a new gear grind? All they did was give us vague bull c r a p info. I am not buying it.
P.s. I will post my HAAT rewards too when it is completed around 4pm.
Guess I have to buy them with currency. Ok so the choice is on me to get more Carbs. Sweet. So then I have to lack in Golden eyeballs, stun guns and cuffs....
The. I have to hoard crystals for Kyrotech.
Their graph should show more information. Sure players are getting more Carbs from store by using currency. What increase is the graph showing? How much of an increase? I am draw a positive sloping squiggly line too. They are simply making a feel good post about the gear grind that they set in place. Why say this now? Why, after introducing a new gear grind? All they did was give us vague bull c r a p info. I am not buying it.
P.s. I will post my HAAT rewards too when it is completed around 4pm.
*facepalm*
Raids run several times a week. They all give guild shop currency. You probably won't spend all of it on carbantis. However, whether you spend those coins on eyeballs or carbs, you are alleviating the pressure on high demand gear and increasing your income for high demand gear, and therefore it counts for SOMETHING.
Currency also gives you more control over when and where income increases. When I was gearing General Kenobi, the lion's share of my guild tokens went to carbantis because I was in severe need of them; they were the limiting factor in getting an arena team ready. Now that carbantis are somewhat less pressing, a smaller portion of my guild token income goes to carbantis. That does not mean guild tokens do not matter as a tool for acquiring carbantis. That means there is flex in my choice to use them. And I still use guild tokens to buy carbantis regularly.
What do I spend my guild tokens on? It depends on what is pressing at this moment. But a relevant portion of the time, it is carbantis because I have need of them often, they are commonly a limiter, and it is a useful, efficient way to spend a portion of my guild tokens.
Currency can do multiple different things and be useful at all of them in flexible ways. I am not incapable of buying movie tickets with my dollars because I also have to buy food. My supply of money is not such that I can only do one thing with it ever. I can budget and distribute that money to multiple ends.
I am beating a dead horse. My original post a few pages back simply stated a more tangible way for them to show players they are getting more Carbs is to guarantee them as rewards, if they were so concerned about getting more to players. If they were being honest and not just giving us info that will make us feel good about how much they care by a blue squiggly line, then they would’ve shown actual numbers, percents, stats, timelines, etc., to prove their point. They simply said here’s a graph to show you that we care. When there are more tangible ways of them showing they care... double drops for GA rewards anyone?
Could you imagine that graph being used in a business with now actual information? Or maybe a school board sees that graph and are told student scores are better? Or maybe a Government uses that graph to show job growth, etc. That graph would be scrutinized and picked over by everyone, but if the only response was, well the graph shows good things... my word.
I am beating a dead horse. My original post a few pages back simply stated a more tangible way for them to show players they are getting more Carbs is to guarantee them as rewards, if they were so concerned about getting more to players. If they were being honest and not just giving us info that will make us feel good about how much they care by a blue squiggly line, then they would’ve shown actual numbers, percents, stats, timelines, etc., to prove their point. They simply said here’s a graph to show you that we care. When there are more tangible ways of them showing they care... double drops for GA rewards anyone?
Could you imagine that graph being used in a business with now actual information? Or maybe a school board sees that graph and are told student scores are better? Or maybe a Government uses that graph to show job growth, etc. That graph would be scrutinized and picked over by everyone, but if the only response was, well the graph shows good things... my word.
I agree on the graph. It doesn't give a full picture, and unless you're willing to make assumptions on it you can't draw too many conclusions from it.
I disagree on the rewards. I would rather have the currency to buy whatever gear is my current bottleneck. More often than not it's not Mk III Carbanti.
I disagree on the rewards. I would rather have the currency to buy whatever gear is my current bottleneck. More often than not it's not Mk III Carbanti.
The currency is nice and I use it to help complete for my toons. I am thankful for the different stores. However, with the new Geo TB coming out, And we can only do ONE TB. How many stars do we have to obtain from Geo TB to equal the amount of GET and Hoth TB rewards I just posted above? That was from 44 stars achieved. Will only getting 1 Star in Geo TB net us that much? If not then why? Is limiting content going to limit our rewards too?
I disagree on the rewards. I would rather have the currency to buy whatever gear is my current bottleneck. More often than not it's not Mk III Carbanti.
The currency is nice and I use it to help complete for my toons. I am thankful for the different stores. However, with the new Geo TB coming out, And we can only do ONE TB. How many stars do we have to obtain from Geo TB to equal the amount of GET and Hoth TB rewards I just posted above? That was from 44 stars achieved. Will only getting 1 Star in Geo TB net us that much? If not then why? Is limiting content going to limit our rewards too?
If you're only getting 1 star in Geo TB you shouldn't be doing Geo TB. We'll know more about the reward structure today or tomorrow. Not much point speculating on it until then.
But they increased Mk3’s in the game, they even made a graph... I posted this and the tank rewards to be sarcastic. So much for increased Mk 3s.
Sarcastic, and ignorant, and wrong. You're making a point about not getting carbs, but you got enough guild credits to buy over fifteen carbs, and you got some shards that will be converted to shard shop currency. Literally every screenshot you've posted has been ways to get more carbantis.
But Carbs weren’t the rewards. I was posting this to show that “they added Carbs.” Look I buy Carbs in shops all the time. Because I need them all the time. I need other gear pieces too, all the time. It would be nice to see that they could be an always earnable reward. Players shouldn’t feel lucky to receive them as an actual reward for events. If they wanted to give us more carbantis then there is an easy sure fire way to show us they are giving us carbantis. So “they added more Carbs” but yet they can’t be earned in HAAT? Hmm, why not add them to the table? Just because I am skeptical and honestly being a jackass about it now doesn’t make me ignorant. Don’t put some half rear ended graph on a public forum and not expect this kind of nitpicking.
I actually bought 15 Carbs from raid rewards, but I now cannot buy anything else... so now I play the waiting game for shop refreshes or more raid rewards...
Replies
Yes, you have to build up different teams of different factions, but that's always been the game. Most meta/event teams have been two or three old established characters, two or three new hotness characters.
Going back in time?
Devan, HK, Bast, Malak, Trooper. Three new toons. Two old solid toons.
Padme and a number of lineups, but let's say GK, Ani, Snips, R2. All old, established toons who've been useful for one reason or another at various points. The only toon competing for a spot in Padme's lineup who's new is 3PO.
Kevan, Bast, Jolee, Yoda, GK. Three new, two old.
Current CLS. Slot the new Chewie and 3PO into the old Titans.
Separatist droids. Two new, three old. One of the droids is often displaced by Nute, who is very old and easy to gear.
We've got the upcoming Geonosian team, which is four very old characters, several of them launch characters, three of them pilots who a lot of people have lying around at high gear. Just one new unit to make that work.
Now there's Shaak troopers. One new leader and four old clones.
Hunters for Chewie. Lot of shiny new hunters happened, but you only needed Bossk with four old school hunters to make a good team.
Ewoks for 3PO. All of them had been good and around for a hot minute.
Sith. Nightmare had one new unit in Sion. Traya had two in Sion and Traya herself.
Bastila Jedi. This was one new unit with four old since Jolee hadn't caught on yet.
Qi'ra Scoundrels. New team, but little incentive to actively farm it. Just a couple new units and some stray scoundrels you probably already have was enough for anything you need them for. The rest is a luxury for TW and now GA. A good luxury, but still a luxury. But it was one of the rare cases of a new, full five-person team being added.
JTR. To really get this working in Nightmare, you needed three new units; JTR, BB-8, and Holdo.
Nightsisters. They were pretty trash before the rework other than Asajj, so they were almost from scratch.
Titans. At the time, CLS and Thrawn were pretty new hotness toons, put alongside old staples Han, GK, and moderately established R2.
Phoenix squad was the last time before Revan where we got a full lineup in preparation for an event. Five new toons who went farmable very shortly before Thrawn happened.
That more or less covers major teams of the last two years, and the general trend has been a couple new, a couple old. That hasn't really changed.
This chart is ****. They needed to make this chart legible by adding more information. This is just a positive sloped squiggly line. Sure what Cyanides said is “true” but until they tell us what the X and Y axis are then I call ****. Why not just be 100% honest...
They don’t want us to know what the X and Y are because then we would be in an uproar. This is not transparency. This is a vague attempt at quelling apprehensions.
You could call that interpretation into question, but a logic check against all the stuff they've added to the game and the various sources of carbs they've added says that's a pretty reasonable number. TB, GET store, TW, GA, continuously increasing shard shop income, new raid adding guild currency/GET, daily box. All things that increase carbanti income, and a 60-75% rise is not an implausible increase in that context.
You can call into question the lack of labels, but it's not meaningless, and it is consistent.
What labels could you possibly put on there that would cause an uproar? On what grounds could you possibly think carbanti income hasn't gone up significantly with the addition of all these new income sources and game modes?
X is time, Y is amount. The amount is not clear. But there are scales on the chart. These are pretty safe assumptions and how any chart presented as such would read. Any reality not fitting these assumptions would be deceitful. And I don't believe it's deceitful. They just don't want to give out an amount which would then cause other types of uproars and future assumptions/demands.
@CG_Cyanides are you able to blink if the axis are such and the chart's bottom indicates zero?
Of course, higher gear tiers require a lot more gear (save for certain easy-to-gear saints). Simultaneously, the number of characters we’re expected to have geared has increased to match the difficulty of new content.
There has been an effort to alleviate the gear crunch, but they’ve simply been outpaced.
If you disagree with OP, essentially the argument you’re making is that we aren’t expected to spend gear at a higher rate now than two years ago relative to gear availability.
(^Which is totally valid and possibly correct, though I personally lean towards OP’s opinion)
The labels that would cause an uproar would how little Carbanti’s are given to us.
Because how do you simply label a graph that has to take into account the percent chance we get carbantis dropping from raid rewards. Because I LOOK at my Raid rewards (Sith or Tank) and I have not gotten Carbantis in the past two weeks. It has been longer but I have only been keeping track for 2 weeks. (That is why this squiggly line graph is ****).
Still haven’t once received 7 Carbantis from challenges.
Sure they show up more in a store, but there are golden eyeballs in that same store too. There are Mk 5 Stun Guns in shard store along with a plethora of other highly needed gear. Oh, and now, we have the Kyrotech pieces for what seems like every new character since DRevan...
The way CG proves that more Carbantis are making it into our rosters is to guarantee a set amount of carbantis as rewards from either raids, TBs or something. The amount of useless non needed gear I get from TB, HSith and Tank Raids plus the Rancor Raid is annoying. What good does it do to a player to have them choose from between Mk 4 Zaltin Gels, golden eyeballs, Carbantis and Mk 5 Detonators in one shop when NONE of those dropped as rewards in the raids that generates that currency? “Oh btw, we added more carbantis!”
So thanks for “behind the math” putting “more” carbantis in the game, instead of just actually giving us more carbantis in a tangible way.
Also where is that chart for stun guns?That one is way worse,but i guess they coudnt try to fool us if they used the stun guns chart.
Exactly. I skipped thru 5 pages to see the end, but basically, without knowing the axis,we can't say 50-75%. The axis could be skewed and the increase could be 5%, but it's an increase
Supply has not kept up with demand. Without evidence, I can't support that 1-2 years ago, the amount of toons most people need requiring a carbanti was more than current status, then they have done something to allievate the burden. If not, then the inflation of carbanti has not kept up with the inflation of characters.
Since then, they've added the Pit raid, guild store, shard shop, guild event store, fleet store (it used to have gear available), guild event store, TBs, TWs, and weekly shipments. Vastly more options for getting cuffs, guns, and carbs. Which is great!
But a few months ago, they added new gear that regresses back to that old state where you either farm 50 or buy through the store. It's possible that this new gear will be available in the upcoming GTB and GE2 stores, but why not wait until then to post a "look at our progress!" gear post? Odd.
They "let you focus", you should be thankful.
It's, "They show up in a store, and that's a source."
Yes, there is opportunity cost. There is ALWAYS opportunity cost. Just because you had the opportunity to buy something else with your currency doesn't invalidate the purchase. The many ways they've increased currency income with which you can buy carbantis is a large part of how carbanti income has gone up. It's not just about random drops.
That chart is a rolling average of carbanti income. Not carbanti drops. Carbanti income. And a lot of that rise is because of currency increases, where people choose to spend currency on carbantis. Yes, there is opportunity cost. There is always opportunity cost. But the strength of currency rewards is you can spend it on what you want. And what people want to use it on is sometimes eyeballs or stun guns, but a significant portion of it is carbantis because they are high demand. And that is reflected in the graph; it's a rolling average income, so what portion of the allotted currency individual players choose to spend on carbantis vice other opportunities is already accounted for, and carbanti income has still risen considerably. How would you suggest graphing that?
Will it be measured by the number of carbantis required for newly released units over time? That would be a function of the average carbanti requirement of new units in a time period times the rate at which new characters come out.
So far this year, we've had six new characters. Three event toons, B1, Droideka, and Shaak Ti. They require 1250 carbantis total. That's 208 and a third carbantis per toon. Very slightly below average on a per-unit basis, but for our purposes we can round it off and say the per-unit carbanti demand is average so far this year. While I don't recall if Devan's event did it, too, but I know Padme's included some gear including at least one carbanti to offset her gearing requirements, making that 1250 a bit of a high ball in practice.
Discounting the initial 65 toons who were in the game at launch, CG has added an average of about 30 toons per year. That means 15 per half-year. This year, CG has placed higher emphasis on reworks than new releases; nine reworks to six new unit releases. But that means the character release rate for the first half of the year is 40% of usual.
That means so far this year, if we are measuring carbanti demand by the rate at which new units call for carbantis, this six month window is calling for carbantis at 40% of the average rate across game life. We need far fewer carbantis so far this year, even though two of the units- Revan and Droideka- need a substantial number of carbs (300 each).
Rate of carb demand as a result of new units has been down tremendously for six months. And that's not a negligible window. Six months is one seventh the total span of the game.
And let's take a look at those 1250 carbs that were added to total demand in a six month window.
Just looking at challenges, you get about 20 per challenge day, three times a week, and in 26 weeks, that comes out to 1560 carbantis. Before even accounting for any carbanti source, challenge gear is enough to outfit all of the new units this year with their carbantis.
So that perception of rising carbanti demand isn't a result of new units. Which gets back to the initial question. How do you suggest graphing that alleged rise in carbanti demand? What demand? How do you define demand in this case?
I already covered how rate of increase in carbanti demand based on new units is down considerably. I contend that this perceived demand is not something new.
Rather, CG is doing things we've been asking them to do for a long time. Bringing new value to old units and rewarding broader rosters in new modes. This does not increase the overall carb load. Rather, it accentuates load that has been there the whole time.
Dooku, Nute, IG-1000, Poggle, and Geonosian Soldier are launch toons. Geonosian Spy, Sun Fac, B2, and Grievous are year one toons. Yes, people are gearing them now because it's been a long time since any of them have been relevant, but they've been here the whole time. Hard to reasonably count three year old toons as an increase in carbanti demand.
Really? I'm getting more and I'm not farming any of those nodes. Guess I don't count in the statistics.
Hey need help!? Did I receive any carbantis? I can’t tell.
Yes. You got 16.
“Yes, there is opportunity cost. There is ALWAYS opportunity cost. Just because you had the opportunity to buy something else with your currency doesn't invalidate the purchase. The many ways they've increased currency income with which you can buy carbantis is a large part of how carbanti income has gone up. It's not just about random drops.”
“That chart is a rolling average of carbanti income. Not carbanti drops. Carbanti income.”
So I posted my TB rewards that take a week to earn. I earned GET and got Zero Mk3 Carbs. I now have to use that GET to buy them along with other heavily needed gear. I did not receive any “income” of carbs. Just the opportunity to buy more. Income is earned by doing something. I did a TB and did not earn a Mk 3 Carb. I now have to way my options as to what gear I want to buy. If I don’t purchase Carbs then I do not have a net increase in Carb income.
Edit: Just for funnzies - there aren’t any Mk3 Carb in my GET store after the TB either. But hey I have a chance...
If you want carbantis, that currency can get them for you. You can choose to increase your carbanti income using that currency. And if you choose not to? That is because you made the decision. You and no one else. If you choose not to spend currency on carbantis, that is your decision. And in the case of GET, it's generally a less practical spend than shard shop currency and guild tokens.
The graph is a rollng average of income. That means it does NOT account for currency that theoretically have gone to carbantis but didn't. The currency only impacts that graph is someone CHOOSES to spend it on carbantis. So after every other possible mitigating factor has come into play.
Yes there are other things you can do with that currency. No matter what choice you make with it, there are a dozen other things you can choose. But no matter what you do with that currency, it will get you SOMETHING.
What you're doing right now is a dishonest shell game to buy your way out of giving CG credit at all. You're acting like the currency gets you nothing by pretending spending it on something is not worth consideration because it could be spent on something else. Which is nonsense.
Currency gets you stuff. It gets you a variety of stuff. Some portion of it will go to one thing. Some portion will go toward another. What portion? Conveniently, we've got a nice graph giving us some idea how that proportion actually impacts things!
If your increased currency that could go toward carbantis does not actually increase your carbanti income, that's on you. Not on CG. You are the one actively making that decision. Do not blame CG for your choices.
/sarcasim
Is that a 50% increase on 0 like the GA zeta to fleet double drops?
Lol
Didn’t receive Mk3 Carbs... hmmm.
Guess I have to buy them with currency. Ok so the choice is on me to get more Carbs. Sweet. So then I have to lack in Golden eyeballs, stun guns and cuffs....
Then I have to hoard crystals for Kyrotech.
Their graph should show more information. Sure players are getting more Carbs from store by using currency. What increase is the graph showing? How much of an increase? I am draw a positive sloping squiggly line too. They are simply making a feel good post about the gear grind that they set in place. Why say this now? Why, after introducing a new gear grind? All they did was give us vague bull c r a p info. I am not buying it.
P.s. I will post my HAAT rewards too when it is completed around 4pm.
Edit: Typos
Raids run several times a week. They all give guild shop currency. You probably won't spend all of it on carbantis. However, whether you spend those coins on eyeballs or carbs, you are alleviating the pressure on high demand gear and increasing your income for high demand gear, and therefore it counts for SOMETHING.
Currency also gives you more control over when and where income increases. When I was gearing General Kenobi, the lion's share of my guild tokens went to carbantis because I was in severe need of them; they were the limiting factor in getting an arena team ready. Now that carbantis are somewhat less pressing, a smaller portion of my guild token income goes to carbantis. That does not mean guild tokens do not matter as a tool for acquiring carbantis. That means there is flex in my choice to use them. And I still use guild tokens to buy carbantis regularly.
What do I spend my guild tokens on? It depends on what is pressing at this moment. But a relevant portion of the time, it is carbantis because I have need of them often, they are commonly a limiter, and it is a useful, efficient way to spend a portion of my guild tokens.
Currency can do multiple different things and be useful at all of them in flexible ways. I am not incapable of buying movie tickets with my dollars because I also have to buy food. My supply of money is not such that I can only do one thing with it ever. I can budget and distribute that money to multiple ends.
I am beating a dead horse. My original post a few pages back simply stated a more tangible way for them to show players they are getting more Carbs is to guarantee them as rewards, if they were so concerned about getting more to players. If they were being honest and not just giving us info that will make us feel good about how much they care by a blue squiggly line, then they would’ve shown actual numbers, percents, stats, timelines, etc., to prove their point. They simply said here’s a graph to show you that we care. When there are more tangible ways of them showing they care... double drops for GA rewards anyone?
Could you imagine that graph being used in a business with now actual information? Or maybe a school board sees that graph and are told student scores are better? Or maybe a Government uses that graph to show job growth, etc. That graph would be scrutinized and picked over by everyone, but if the only response was, well the graph shows good things... my word.
I agree on the graph. It doesn't give a full picture, and unless you're willing to make assumptions on it you can't draw too many conclusions from it.
I disagree on the rewards. I would rather have the currency to buy whatever gear is my current bottleneck. More often than not it's not Mk III Carbanti.
The currency is nice and I use it to help complete for my toons. I am thankful for the different stores. However, with the new Geo TB coming out, And we can only do ONE TB. How many stars do we have to obtain from Geo TB to equal the amount of GET and Hoth TB rewards I just posted above? That was from 44 stars achieved. Will only getting 1 Star in Geo TB net us that much? If not then why? Is limiting content going to limit our rewards too?
If you're only getting 1 star in Geo TB you shouldn't be doing Geo TB. We'll know more about the reward structure today or tomorrow. Not much point speculating on it until then.
Third chance today to get Mk3 Carbs from Raids or TB. But we have been getting more.
Also, I didn’t attack. Since I have solo’d it before I normally don’t to let other in guild score higher.
Well, Mk3 Carbanti aren't in the tank rewards table, so not surprised you didn't get any.
I actually bought 15 Carbs from raid rewards, but I now cannot buy anything else... so now I play the waiting game for shop refreshes or more raid rewards...