Why do they want to break up Guilds?

Replies

  • My guild has struggled with this since the day we were able to do haat. From that point on we could no longer keep players, everytime something new came a long people jumped ship and we had to start over. Sith raid damaged us really good. And with that we started to suffer in tw and tb. But slowly we started to recover where we could almost do hsith till g12 exclusive gear came a long and what do you know, more left again to chase after that. Needless to say we were farther away from hsith again. Back to rebuilding the guild we go. Which at this point was getting hard, no wants in a non hsith guild but we kept going. Finially got up to a 120m guild getting ready for hsith and g12 finisher and geo tb comes a long and just like that lost 6 ppl within 2 days. Ive been with this guild since day 1. Bleeding with it a long the way. Im a 4.3m gp player more than capable to be in a stronger guild and until now would never abondon my friends. But CG has left me no choice if I want to advance beyond what my guild is stuck at.
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    The only way CG can introduce new PvE content without anyone leaving a guild is by making the content SO EASY that you can sim or auto it without looking at the screen

    Nobody wants that

    Also, those who are blaming CG and saying they force players to quit, untrue. My guild is holding me back, but I'm not quitting it. There are others in my guild who should migrate but aren't

    If you make a good guild community people will stay
  • Vos_Landeck
    1666 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    t
    A 3.5 Million GP player that is on a 80 Million GP guild that is say top 100 in arena cannot stay with that guild. If that guild goes after Geo TB they are only going to get a couple stars and pour rewards so if that player wants to stay in the top 100 in arena they will need the G12 finishers and need to be in a stronger guild to achieve that.

    A 3.5 mil GP player in an 80 mil GP guild isn't an end-game player anyway and should already be in a stronger guild. G12 finisher pieces are also in the GAC store and will be farmable (per the initial dev announcement on G12 finishers). From today's update notes: "G12 Finishers will be available nodes next week". Need to get your information straight if you're gonna start a "the sky is falling" thread.
  • taquillasun
    1158 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    Slippyfist wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I stayed when hSTR dropped. I couldn't get Traya. I dropped in arena. It was temporary.

    We lost a few strong players, but over time we got stronger without them. Anyone who leaves just to chase new content is not worth keeping imo.

    Exactly. These players will always be there. The content chasers are what make it so difficult to find and keep a good, solid guild. This type of player has been there since the first video game with guilds, and they will be there forever.

    I love picking on CG as much as the next person, but I don't think this is something we can hold them accountable for. I know they can make decisions that have some influence over the guild hoppers behavior, but they will never be able to stop it. Any new content with a higher difficulty can make guild hoppers move on.

    Here is what is going to happen. Reality will sink in when it's been 6 months and you haven't done anything in the new Geo, besides a few desperation stars to keep anyone who is left.

    When people -the high GP roster members are getting smoked day in and day out in arena and grand arena! And to a larger extent Territory Wars... they'll leave. Trust me... they'll figure they can keep in touch if they really want to via chat - discord - but I know I will always do what's best for me. I am not in the same guild I started with. I left previous guilds for various reasons. If I wasn't in a guild that could do a little damage in the new Geo, trust me, I'd be contemplating leaving, and ultimately I'd leave because I want to progress at a normal pace.
  • Who wants to be looking at a full team of G13 when you got like 1....?? That's going to get old fast. They're letting us know, G13 is going to be a hug huge boost. Get ready ya'll!
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    As always in these situations:

    When some alliances disolve, new alliances are formed.
  • Snaklor
    43 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    The only way CG can introduce new PvE content without anyone leaving a guild is by making the content SO EASY that you can sim or auto it without looking at the screen

    Nobody wants that

    Also, those who are blaming CG and saying they force players to quit, untrue. My guild is holding me back, but I'm not quitting it. There are others in my guild who should migrate but aren't

    If you make a good guild community people will stay

    This is not true, you’re just thinking of content in exactly the form it currently exists. Make a global scoreboard for raids. Make raid damage scored against tiers of increased damage.

    Those I literally thought of in the past 30 seconds. You’re just thinking of how things are instead of what could be.
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    Snaklor wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    The only way CG can introduce new PvE content without anyone leaving a guild is by making the content SO EASY that you can sim or auto it without looking at the screen

    Nobody wants that

    Also, those who are blaming CG and saying they force players to quit, untrue. My guild is holding me back, but I'm not quitting it. There are others in my guild who should migrate but aren't

    If you make a good guild community people will stay

    This is not true, you’re just thinking of content in exactly the form it currently exists. Make a global scoreboard for raids. Make raid damage scored against tiers of increased damage.

    Those I literally thought of in the past 30 seconds. You’re just thinking of how things are instead of what could be.
    And its zero new content. How does global scoreboard make the game more fun, engaging?

    Your 30 second ideas provides nothing new or any value to the game. A scoring system has a bunch of flaws but I'll ignore that for now because its another debate

    Keep in mind, CG is not allowed to make new raids because that will break up guilds so we will forever be stuck in the 3 raids we currently have
  • I wonder if top Guilds will start charging mid tier player a fee to be in the guild. I can see it now "We are a 280 Million GP guild with 1 spot open new member must pay $20 per month and get their 600. his will guarantee you get X # of crystals, X currency and X gear per month"
  • TVF
    36518 posts Member
    I wonder if top Guilds will start charging mid tier player a fee to be in the guild. I can see it now "We are a 280 Million GP guild with 1 spot open new member must pay $20 per month and get their 600. his will guarantee you get X # of crystals, X currency and X gear per month"

    Anyone who pays to be in a guild gets what they deserve I guess.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Snaklor wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    This comment makes my brain hurt.

    Ask the quitters why they leave? Sure, because CG only introduces new content that requires massive GP.

    The bottom line is that type of content FORCES players to choose between friends and progress. Why are you defending that? How is making the player choose one or the other good? Why not just make content that is easier in a bigger guild but has more of a player driven component or score so that you get the best of both worlds? There are hundreds of ways to build a more complicated system that doesn’t solely rely on being in the biggest possible guild.

    The answer is because it’s easy to just continue making the content the way they have.

    Here’s a simple solution: add a personal component to TB. You get rewards for progress as a guild and you get rewards for your own personal progress/score. Wow, that was both a simple idea AND doesn’t force players to choose between two things they want.

    Maybe if you would get good your friends wouldn't leave you.

    You misspelled "get gud"
  • i don't think anyone was saying don't make new content. i mean I wish they would add a harder tier to the challenges and maybe give us a reason to even do Mace Windu's. There are different areas to the Game.Solo PVE (battles, events) Guild PVE (TB), Solo PVP (Arena, Fleet Arena, GAC) and Guild PVP (TW). Most games I have played if you do not want to play in an area it does not hurt you in the others. In this game it is different everything is tied together. I don't mind this however I am in a decent guild. But I came across someone this week that loved TW and did not care about anything else so he tended to ignore TB. Well he got kicked out of his guild. I have seen some guild if you do not stay in the top 100 in arena you are out. Now to each their own and if people want to play this way Hopefully they can find fellow players with the same mindsets but I do know the grid to recruit players is hard. Extremely hard for lower guilds that can never get ahead. When the game does things like not letting you run Hoth and Geonosis it makes matters worse. A guild might not care as much that a player does not have enough 16,500 GP toons if they are still contributing to Hoth and helping get max stars there. But as it stands now that person will most likely get booted and struggle to find a new home that gives him the same rewards as what he was getting. So see 1 simple option of letting the guild run both TB's at the same time keeps how many players happy? I mean they even designed Geonosis to run on the easy no brainer days of Hoth anyways. So keep new content coming but try to think of everyone not just the top 1% and excluding the other 99%.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    i don't think anyone was saying don't make new content. i mean I wish they would add a harder tier to the challenges and maybe give us a reason to even do Mace Windu's. There are different areas to the Game.Solo PVE (battles, events) Guild PVE (TB), Solo PVP (Arena, Fleet Arena, GAC) and Guild PVP (TW). Most games I have played if you do not want to play in an area it does not hurt you in the others. In this game it is different everything is tied together. I don't mind this however I am in a decent guild. But I came across someone this week that loved TW and did not care about anything else so he tended to ignore TB. Well he got kicked out of his guild. I have seen some guild if you do not stay in the top 100 in arena you are out. Now to each their own and if people want to play this way Hopefully they can find fellow players with the same mindsets but I do know the grid to recruit players is hard. Extremely hard for lower guilds that can never get ahead. When the game does things like not letting you run Hoth and Geonosis it makes matters worse. A guild might not care as much that a player does not have enough 16,500 GP toons if they are still contributing to Hoth and helping get max stars there. But as it stands now that person will most likely get booted and struggle to find a new home that gives him the same rewards as what he was getting. So see 1 simple option of letting the guild run both TB's at the same time keeps how many players happy? I mean they even designed Geonosis to run on the easy no brainer days of Hoth anyways. So keep new content coming but try to think of everyone not just the top 1% and excluding the other 99%.

    This in no way excludes 99% by any means.

    A guild that cannot get rewards from an event being excluded and directed to keep working on "the lower tier" of an event that they can do and will help them develop is bad?

    Who is trying to catch up? And who are they trying to catch up to? They are all in the same boat as others at thier level of investment (time/$$) and have the same opportunities to invest more to go faster than those around them.

    We run an alliance where we keep guilds around for those players who dont like X or are casual about Y. Not everyone does this, but that is not a dev problem. X and Y are just opportunities to invest more time/effort/$$ to get ahead, if player dont want to take advantage then that is thier choice and is them turning down help, not being hurt.

    This new gear is a great example of this, everything can be achieved by those who have no interest in either game mode, but there is help offered to those who will put in the extra effort to take full advantage.

  • Kyno wrote: »
    A guild that cannot get rewards from an event being excluded and directed to keep working on "the lower tier" of an event that they can do and will help them develop is bad?

    Who is trying to catch up? And who are they trying to catch up to? They are all in the same boat as others at thier level of investment (time/$$) and have the same opportunities to invest more to go faster than those around them.

    1st off I was not talking about be excluded from an event. My issue was being forced to choose between the 2 events. Mid Tier guild are being forced to give up on Hoth rewards just to try Geonosis. Is this wrong yes, yes it is. How does this not seem wrong to you. Oh wait you are in an Alliance and a Large guild and don't want lower guilds to get better without paying money. Tell me who does it hurt not allowing Guilds to do both TB's at the same time? It allows Mid tier guilds in the 150 Million range try to push forward without having to take a step back and missing payouts that will help them move up. This scenario is what causes the turmoil in the Guilds and causes players to leave or be kicked out.

    2nd I am not at the same level as my opponents. When it TW w have a 220 Million GP guild sit the lower half of their roster so they can play down into our 160 GP guild how is that apples to apples. Your answer of more time or money is not true either. I max out my time on this game everyday adding more time to it will give me nothing more. And money is the thing you want us to spend. I am not a completely free to play player but I am also not going to spend $1000's of dollars a year to have what I just spent $$ on become obsolete. The $$ value of what you get in this game is so bad and is only getting worse that it causes me to spend less then I did a year ago and the year before that. You can say what you want to defend these practices but we know they are not valid and they are only there to try to pull in more of the $$$ you are so fond of.

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    A guild that cannot get rewards from an event being excluded and directed to keep working on "the lower tier" of an event that they can do and will help them develop is bad?

    Who is trying to catch up? And who are they trying to catch up to? They are all in the same boat as others at thier level of investment (time/$$) and have the same opportunities to invest more to go faster than those around them.

    1st off I was not talking about be excluded from an event. My issue was being forced to choose between the 2 events. Mid Tier guild are being forced to give up on Hoth rewards just to try Geonosis. Is this wrong yes, yes it is. How does this not seem wrong to you. Oh wait you are in an Alliance and a Large guild and don't want lower guilds to get better without paying money. Tell me who does it hurt not allowing Guilds to do both TB's at the same time? It allows Mid tier guilds in the 150 Million range try to push forward without having to take a step back and missing payouts that will help them move up. This scenario is what causes the turmoil in the Guilds and causes players to leave or be kicked out.

    2nd I am not at the same level as my opponents. When it TW w have a 220 Million GP guild sit the lower half of their roster so they can play down into our 160 GP guild how is that apples to apples. Your answer of more time or money is not true either. I max out my time on this game everyday adding more time to it will give me nothing more. And money is the thing you want us to spend. I am not a completely free to play player but I am also not going to spend $1000's of dollars a year to have what I just spent $$ on become obsolete. The $$ value of what you get in this game is so bad and is only getting worse that it causes me to spend less then I did a year ago and the year before that. You can say what you want to defend these practices but we know they are not valid and they are only there to try to pull in more of the $$$ you are so fond of.

    No one is being forced, not to leave a guild, not to do a particular event. They are options and people can choose to do what they want. The only thing that is locked out by not doing the event is shards of Wat. All other rewards are offered through other means. This means if a guild will get better rewards or choose to run Hoth they can and still make progress.

    We have a few guilds that are going to be in a rough spot from the information we just got about the difficulty. But we will make the best of it and work through it.

    Running both would mean there would have to be lower rewards. Despite what anyone wants there is an economy and it is balanced the way they want to keep the pace where they want it. Since it would be a horrendous idea to lower current rewards, they would have to produce low rewards on new content, which is an almost equally bad idea.

    The difficulty and rewards of new content always cause turmoil in guilds, this is nothing new and is 100% going to happen not matter what when they make new content. Players will choose to leave or choose to kick other out due to the personal choices they make.

    I dont want you to do anything. I am not telling anyone to spend money, but if anyone wants to get somewhere faster or beat out others similar to them, they always have the option to $$. Time also refers to how long you play, so yes you can always commit more time.

    Anyone who thinks this is not a game made by a company here to make money is not paying attention. Anyone who thinks they are forced to pay is not paying attention. This game is free for those who want it to be and an advantage cam be played for if they choose. Yes the game is paced and designed to make options of spending seem great, who wouldnt designed thier product to look desirable.
  • Gair
    616 posts Member
    I agree with Bevel in that there is a limit to the amount of time one can spend per day. Any gain beyond a specific amount would really net you nothing other than staring at your game.

    Kyno is right in that this is entirely your choice on how you go about playing this game.

    Our CG Overlords are here to make you spend money to suppress their EA Overlords, who have Disney Overlords, that have shareholder Overlords. Which one are we complaining to about money exactly?
  • With a few exceptions the top 20 guilds generate the vast majority of the $$$ for CG. I'm not saying their entire business model isn't broken, it is. But they have to keep the whales happy, period. They do not actually care about you (or me) because we do not pay the bills. Other very successful games attempt to provide reasonable spending oppertuniy for the masses and do well with the "dolphin" business model. CG prefers to bank on the top whales and occasionally throw the rest of us a bone. Get use to it. It is not going to change!!! We have 1 or 2 Simi-Whale players in my 130 mil guild. They prefer us over the hyper-intense "you must do this or get booted" guilds. We are laid back but very active and have found a good middle ground. Also we have a good community which is a big part of keeping good players. I wouldn't know any of them if they were in my living room yet they feel like family. That is a guild.
  • JaggedJ
    1352 posts Member
    Do they want to break up guilds or is that just a natural progression based on new content being more difficult than the last?

    At the end of the day it's an individual decision.

    I stuck with my original guild through HAAT and HSTR because they were a good group of people. I was one of the first ready and could have left a lot earlier but stuck it out.

    Then it got to the point where I wanted a change so now I have a new guild whereas others in my guild came and went because they weren't prepared to stick around until those raids were done.

    Point is, none of it was driven by CG, they just release the content. Individuals then make their own decisions.
  • Perro wrote: »
    I like peanut butter

    Smooth or crunchy?
  • miketo
    139 posts Member
    One of the former game changers made a weekly series of him starting a new account. His experiment, imo, was fraudulent from the word go.

    His alt was accepted into his friends guild that was running all 3 raids on heroic. I assume TW and TB rewards were also top level.

    Great deal for him. Not so much for those who also started at the same time and went through the starter guilds. Geo Tb, similar to HsTR will push people into guilds that are more appropriate for their level.

    If you had an HSTR ready roster and stayed in a guild that was't, you made a poor decision.

    If your a guild that is ready for Geo TB and are carrying dead weight rather than replacing them with other Geo TB ready players, that too is a poor choice.

    Find a guild at the same level as you and progress as a team. Don't free load or carry dead weight.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    He answered thatbin his post. They leave because if they dont theyll fall behind and thus cant be conpetitive anymore.

    How many squads were in top 50 after trayas release that were from guilds that couldnt get traya?
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    He answered thatbin his post. They leave because if they dont theyll fall behind and thus cant be conpetitive anymore.

    How many squads were in top 50 after trayas release that were from guilds that couldnt get traya?

    Does that mean they shouldnt release new content or good rewards because people will choose to leave?

    What is holding them back from being competitive, there are no exclusive rewards, they can keep up. If they are in a "lesser guild " than they could have been in then they have already accepted some lower rewards and were ok with that. Now they are not?, and that sounds like a personal choice about the grass being greener....
  • If i was a dev that knew my content would make guilds fall apart and ppl quit for that matter,i would be ashamed of myself and my work.Yeah i know i can sound a little harsh,but its what i believe.
  • Liath
    5140 posts Member
    When higher GP players leave for guilds that match or even exceed their level, it creates peer pressure types of incentives. These exist passively even if the guild is not dictatorial. You see people at your level doing things you aren’t and you think “hey I guess I can/should do that too,” in a way you just don’t get when you’re the big fish in a small pond. This promotes progression and spending among those players.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    If i was a dev that knew my content would make guilds fall apart and ppl quit for that matter,i would be ashamed of myself and my work.Yeah i know i can sound a little harsh,but its what i believe.

    How would you create new content that corrects human nature?

    For that matter how do you create content that would have an incentive to grow and be difficult and have better rewards than previous content or new rewards, and at the same time not make people want to do better/get better rewards?

    What you are saying is not harsh towards the devs, it naive and unrealistic in any sense. The dev team did not make content that would break up guilds, they made content that the player base will want. Players making the personal choice to leave is on them.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Snaklor wrote: »

    The bottom line is that type of content FORCES players to choose between friends and progress. Why are you defending that?

    because it leads to more player enjoyment if you're in a guild with players whom are roughly as dedicated as yourself.
    It's the same with sports for example. It's a simple concept, i don't know why so many people flip out about this.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Kyno wrote: »
    If i was a dev that knew my content would make guilds fall apart and ppl quit for that matter,i would be ashamed of myself and my work.Yeah i know i can sound a little harsh,but its what i believe.

    How would you create new content that corrects human nature?

    For that matter how do you create content that would have an incentive to grow and be difficult and have better rewards than previous content or new rewards, and at the same time not make people want to do better/get better rewards?

    What you are saying is not harsh towards the devs, it naive and unrealistic in any sense. The dev team did not make content that would break up guilds, they made content that the player base will want. Players making the personal choice to leave is on them.

    I will give you an example to see why so many complains on forums and on reddit.They make only decisions where the gap from f2p to p2w players keep increasing,ofc you will have hard time to make content for everyone.You see where this is going i bet,games that want to have a healthy population try to balance things out with every update,trying to close the gap,i am not saying there shoudnt be a gap,but not this huge one.Even making new shards,which is great Top players,fight Top players,middle middle and low fight vs low ppl,there is still a mismatching at TB,like our last fight.
    Now this new g13 finisher will only make things even worse,even at same gp,roster,composition of your team,that 1 item will be the deciding factor who wins.Why the need to make such op new gear item?Look what happened when revan came out,his abilities is like a small essay.
    So what could be done?Why not make the geonosis TB tiered like the raids?My guild is only doing t6 of sith,we farm the other ones,am i complaining?Hell no for this,becouse at least i get to do,see,enjoy that part of the game.
  • kello_511
    1648 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Snaklor wrote: »

    The bottom line is that type of content FORCES players to choose between friends and progress. Why are you defending that?

    because it leads to more player enjoyment if you're in a guild with players whom are roughly as dedicated as yourself.
    It's the same with sports for example. It's a simple concept, i don't know why so many people flip out about this.

    You’re not new here.
    You know that the entire game collapses each time something new is added. Guild fall apart, the earth (and forums) are scorched, Wookiee and Ewoks mate. It’s like the end times. Every decision that the developers have ever made has resulted in the game falling apart. If only the developers had half the foresight of the average forum member, the game would stand a chance at surviving.

    Or so I’ve read anyway.
  • leef wrote: »
    It's the same with sports for example. It's a simple concept, i don't know why so many people flip out about this.

    Bad analogy if in sports 1 team had all mvps and one had all benchwarmers the league would fail.
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