Why do they want to break up Guilds?

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Bevel_Lemelisk
202 posts Member
edited June 2019
i thought the Guild shuffle was bad when the Sith Raid came out but now with the new TB it is happening all over again. Good players with String rosters on Smaller GP Guilds are leaving for larger guilds because they are pretty much forced to in order to keep up. A 3.5 Million GP player that is on a 80 Million GP guild that is say top 100 in arena cannot stay with that guild. If that guild goes after Geo TB they are only going to get a couple stars and pour rewards so if that player wants to stay in the top 100 in arena they will need the G12 finishers and need to be in a stronger guild to achieve that. I see this a a way to make the top guild even stronger and who cares about anyone else. I think I am in a good place in a 160 Million GP guild but I feel for those players that have to leave friends or just fall to far behind in the game.
Post edited by Kyno on

Replies

  • Bevel_Lemelisk
    202 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    Also this goes against the previous talk about rewarding strong guild or players that take on smaller players to help them.
  • Ultra
    11449 posts Moderator
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave
  • TVF
    36519 posts Member
    I stayed when hSTR dropped. I couldn't get Traya. I dropped in arena. It was temporary.

    We lost a few strong players, but over time we got stronger without them. Anyone who leaves just to chase new content is not worth keeping imo.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    Sure, but they fully understand what will happen to guilds when they release this type of content, and they welcome the breaking of guilds. They think it's healthy for the game.
  • Unpopular opinion:

    Content like this that causes guilds to shuffle is good for the game. It redistributes strength so that players can be in guilds that are appropriate for their GP. Sure it sucks to have your guilds' whales leave, but the 4.5m GP player is being held back by the 3m avg GP guild.

    Eventually the dust settles and everyone is better off. People that couldn't beat the whale HSTR scores are now cracking the top 10, the whales get to whale together, and the inactives finally get the boot. It's a win-win-win.
  • kello_511
    1648 posts Member
    Those “whales” in your 80M GP guild who are going to bail?
    They are there for one reason only - to grab the top rewards from your sith raids.
    Now that something more important is coming around, they are moving to chase it.
    It was never going to last forever.
  • I was just calling it like I see it I will gladly take players that want to move up into a higher guild as it will get us more rewards and make our whole guild stronger. The actual whale that have nothing but the 2 revan teams because they bought them will end up losing top spot as they won't be able to keep up with the G13 hunt.
  • Snaklor
    43 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    This comment makes my brain hurt.

    Ask the quitters why they leave? Sure, because CG only introduces new content that requires massive GP.

    The bottom line is that type of content FORCES players to choose between friends and progress. Why are you defending that? How is making the player choose one or the other good? Why not just make content that is easier in a bigger guild but has more of a player driven component or score so that you get the best of both worlds? There are hundreds of ways to build a more complicated system that doesn’t solely rely on being in the biggest possible guild.

    The answer is because it’s easy to just continue making the content the way they have.

    Here’s a simple solution: add a personal component to TB. You get rewards for progress as a guild and you get rewards for your own personal progress/score. Wow, that was both a simple idea AND doesn’t force players to choose between two things they want.
  • TVF wrote: »
    I stayed when hSTR dropped. I couldn't get Traya. I dropped in arena. It was temporary.

    We lost a few strong players, but over time we got stronger without them. Anyone who leaves just to chase new content is not worth keeping imo.

    Exactly. These players will always be there. The content chasers are what make it so difficult to find and keep a good, solid guild. This type of player has been there since the first video game with guilds, and they will be there forever.

    I love picking on CG as much as the next person, but I don't think this is something we can hold them accountable for. I know they can make decisions that have some influence over the guild hoppers behavior, but they will never be able to stop it. Any new content with a higher difficulty can make guild hoppers move on.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Snaklor wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    This comment makes my brain hurt.

    Ask the quitters why they leave? Sure, because CG only introduces new content that requires massive GP.

    The bottom line is that type of content FORCES players to choose between friends and progress. Why are you defending that? How is making the player choose one or the other good? Why not just make content that is easier in a bigger guild but has more of a player driven component or score so that you get the best of both worlds? There are hundreds of ways to build a more complicated system that doesn’t solely rely on being in the biggest possible guild.

    The answer is because it’s easy to just continue making the content the way they have.

    Here’s a simple solution: add a personal component to TB. You get rewards for progress as a guild and you get rewards for your own personal progress/score. Wow, that was both a simple idea AND doesn’t force players to choose between two things they want.

    Maybe if you would get good your friends wouldn't leave you.
  • Snaklor
    43 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »

    Maybe if you would get good your friends wouldn't leave you.

    #1 in both arenas and easily 40m+ without P3 gimmicks at just over 3.2M GP. I think I’m doing just fine on the “git gud” front.
  • Jarvind
    3920 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    What's the alternative? Just never raise the bar? Farm heroic sith forever? No thank you, please.
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  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    i thought the Guild shuffle was bad when the Sith Raid came out but now with the new TB it is happening all over again. Good players with String rosters on Smaller GP Guilds are leaving for larger guilds because they are pretty much forced to in order to keep up. A 3.5 Million GP player that is on a 80 Million GP guild that is say top 100 in arena cannot stay with that guild. If that guild goes after Geo TB they are only going to get a couple stars and pour rewards so if that player wants to stay in the top 100 in arena they will need the G12 finishers and need to be in a stronger guild to achieve that. I see this a a way to make the top guild even stronger and who cares about anyone else. I think I am in a good place in a 160 Million GP guild but I feel for those players that have to leave friends or just fall to far behind in the game.

    80M gp guild has a 1.6M gp average and you take 3.5M gp peep in that guild. That person makes the choice on every corner turn in the game. I know I did and my choice was to stay until this one. Now I want to shuffle too. It's a personal decision each time, but it's also flock behaviour as a result which possibly even breaks guilds completely. It's both good and bad at the same time for the longetivity of the game. If that person leaving only cared about peeps he was playing with and not the his gameplay experience, he wouldn't choose to leave. It's not like everyone wants to stay unconditionally and CG is the one that breaks up the guilds, the relation is conditional and situation dependant to varying degrees.
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    Snaklor wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    Maybe if you would get good your friends wouldn't leave you.

    #1 in both arenas and easily 40m+ without P3 gimmicks at just over 3.2M GP. I think I’m doing just fine on the “git gud” front.

    Then why do your friends keep leaving you?
  • Snaklor
    43 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    Snaklor wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    Maybe if you would get good your friends wouldn't leave you.

    #1 in both arenas and easily 40m+ without P3 gimmicks at just over 3.2M GP. I think I’m doing just fine on the “git gud” front.

    Then why do your friends keep leaving you?

    At no point did I say my friends are leaving me. My point is that making content that only rewards large guilds is dumb, and a business decision designed to take an easier path for CG and generate income rather than rewarding the entire player base.

    It’s not hard to create a better reward structure. It’s not hard to have a system that rewards individuals and guilds. There is no world where a more nuanced system doesn’t benefit players, it’s just more work for CG so they choose the easy path.
  • Kokie
    1338 posts Member
    I'm sorry but if you're in a 80 million ish guild then that is your own doing. You've been held back from good rewards long before geo TB arrived
  • StarSon
    7411 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    Snaklor wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Snaklor wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    Maybe if you would get good your friends wouldn't leave you.

    #1 in both arenas and easily 40m+ without P3 gimmicks at just over 3.2M GP. I think I’m doing just fine on the “git gud” front.

    Then why do your friends keep leaving you?

    At no point did I say my friends are leaving me. My point is that making content that only rewards large guilds is dumb, and a business decision designed to take an easier path for CG and generate income rather than rewarding the entire player base.

    I don't agree that it's dumb. I do think they should occasionally release stuff for smaller guilds, like a raid before Pit, perhaps, but new end-game content, by definition, will always benefit large guilds the most.
    It’s not hard to create a better reward structure. It’s not hard to have a system that rewards individuals and guilds. There is no world where a more nuanced system doesn’t benefit players, it’s just more work for CG so they choose the easy path.

    Sure, neither is hard, and maybe they'll do one or both. But it won't change the fact of what I stated already: end-game content is always aimed most at end-game guilds.

    Edit: also, I feel like the "why are your friends leaving you" comment came across as harsh instead of sarcastic. Sorry about that.
  • The op initial post is flawed... A 3.5mil gp person in an 80mil gp guild is already not going to be top 100 in arena because they are missing g12+ pieces cause an 80mil gp guild isn't completing hstr. That person already made their decision.
  • As to the original post, any 80 Million GP guild that has a 3.5 million player or 2 on the roster has been relying on that player. Getting them to set an impossible defense in TW could single handed get a win. Getting lower GP players Traya shards earlier than what would be expected, etc....

    And the situation is also a benefit for that high GP player. Placing #1 in every raid that the guild participates in creates a nice inflow of top rewards and currency. The choice they will have to make is the current rewards good enough for them to stay, or will they want to leave a known entity, to join a guild that may relegate them to the bottom 20%.

    Guilds that grow together, I would guess, will be stronger in the long run.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    People leave because CG has tied individual success with guild success. I’ve played other mmo’s before and pvp success seemed to be separate from pve success. I could take top end pve gear into pvp and do ok, but I couldn’t compete against those with top end pvp gear. The reverse was true as well.

    For me in this game, I’ve been huge on ships (first every day since before it paid crystals), but not so much on raids. When g12+ came out, people just put a few of those items on pilots and would easily beat my maxed out (minus g12+) fleet despite having many other pilots in their fleet far from g12.

    If CG were to decouple individual and guild success somewhat, it would prevent a lot of guilds from breaking.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    They make new content, this content will be easier with a higher GP, this is the case for any content.

    They placed a value on the minimum and have explained that even those at the minimum will have a hard time getting meaningful rewards.

    So they should not make new content? Or they should not make hard content?

    How would either of those be good for the game?
    Players leaving a guild is a personal choice they make and is not forced upon them by anyone.
  • Snaklor wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    CG doesn't break guilds. They make endgame contents, players break guilds by quitting

    Ask the quitters why they leave

    This comment makes my brain hurt.

    Ask the quitters why they leave? Sure, because CG only introduces new content that requires massive GP.

    The bottom line is that type of content FORCES players to choose between friends and progress. Why are you defending that? How is making the player choose one or the other good? Why not just make content that is easier in a bigger guild but has more of a player driven component or score so that you get the best of both worlds? There are hundreds of ways to build a more complicated system that doesn’t solely rely on being in the biggest possible guild.

    The answer is because it’s easy to just continue making the content the way they have.

    Here’s a simple solution: add a personal component to TB. You get rewards for progress as a guild and you get rewards for your own personal progress/score. Wow, that was both a simple idea AND doesn’t force players to choose between two things they want.

    Well i suggested that before but apparently the forum is full of freeloaders and it was quickly shot down.
  • jkray622
    1636 posts Member
    thedrjojo wrote: »
    The op initial post is flawed... A 3.5mil gp person in an 80mil gp guild is already not going to be top 100 in arena because they are missing g12+ pieces cause an 80mil gp guild isn't completing hstr. That person already made their decision.

    Guilds lower than 80M can do hstr now. There already been a 3 player clear of the whole raid, so 1-2 strong mercs can certainly push a guild over the edge.
  • exile038
    138 posts Member
    i thought the Guild shuffle was bad when the Sith Raid came out but now with the new TB it is happening all over again. Good players with String rosters on Smaller GP Guilds are leaving for larger guilds because they are pretty much forced to in order to keep up. A 3.5 Million GP player that is on a 80 Million GP guild that is say top 100 in arena cannot stay with that guild. If that guild goes after Geo TB they are only going to get a couple stars and pour rewards so if that player wants to stay in the top 100 in arena they will need the G12 finishers and need to be in a stronger guild to achieve that. I see this a a way to make the top guild even stronger and who cares about anyone else. I think I am in a good place in a 160 Million GP guild but I feel for those players that have to leave friends or just fall to far behind in the game.

    $$$$
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    exile038 wrote: »
    i thought the Guild shuffle was bad when the Sith Raid came out but now with the new TB it is happening all over again. Good players with String rosters on Smaller GP Guilds are leaving for larger guilds because they are pretty much forced to in order to keep up. A 3.5 Million GP player that is on a 80 Million GP guild that is say top 100 in arena cannot stay with that guild. If that guild goes after Geo TB they are only going to get a couple stars and pour rewards so if that player wants to stay in the top 100 in arena they will need the G12 finishers and need to be in a stronger guild to achieve that. I see this a a way to make the top guild even stronger and who cares about anyone else. I think I am in a good place in a 160 Million GP guild but I feel for those players that have to leave friends or just fall to far behind in the game.

    $$$$

    Didn't know CG got paid when guild break up.
  • Kokie
    1338 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    CG employees receive bonuses for every guild they break up.....thought you knew this.....
  • RawdSW
    150 posts Member
    My former guild fell apart when we couldn't do hSTR. It was sad, but inevitable - too many people who didn't want to progress as fast as some others. Yes, new, harder content causes guilds to reshuffle - it's the proverbial circle of life. Some things have to die for better things to be born.
  • Jarvind
    3920 posts Member
    edited June 2019
    I left my first guild because they weren't serious about progressing, and it was holding back overall growth. I was going hard on teams to do better in arenas and raids so I could get more resources and improve my roster in the most impactful way possible. Meanwhile every day I'd be seeing:

    "Mol Eliza increased gear level for Lobot to XI"
    "Thraken Vih'Torr promoted Resistance Pilot to 7-Star"


    And so on. People would just randomly gear up and promote characters with no thought for how useful it actually was, and as a result we won maybe 30% of our Territory Wars and got way less stars and GEC in TB than a "serious" guild at the same GP would get. I brought it up to the leaders repeatedly and they'd just say something like "yeah you're right but recruiting is hard so we don't want to bother people because they might leave and then we'll have to replace them."

    So I left. Most people just want to fart around and sponge gear, and you can't excel in that environment. That's why people leave. Not because "CG made them." They want to be better, and your guild doesn't.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



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