So I haven’t heard anyone give the most obvious solution yet: make all matches 8 v 8, regardless of GP. Even playing field for all.
that doesn't even the playing field, because those with lower gps can't field as many effective teams as those with higher gps. so lowering the number of teams makes it boring for whales, while raising the number of teams makes it lopsided in favor of the whales.
CG should have learned the lesson the last time they tried to come out with a mode like this, tying reward levels too strongly to unlevel competitive play is always a bad idea. that was why they killed the idea the first time.
This thread hurts my head, but this portion is concerning to me. I dont see how that can or should happen.
I'm not so worried about the points issue, but if a person that can field 8 good teams is forced to fight against a person that can only field 6 and they are limited to 6, that actually hurts the person with the stronger roster because it artificially levels the playing field.
Just spitballing: I dont think they will or should release the algorithm as then it can be gamed.
BUT, I would be curious how it would perform if the matchmaking algorithm was as simple as the discord bot output. You would probably have to weight mods very low or not at all, because they are a huge variable, but if the rest of the items were toggle flags or +/- 5%-ish, how good would it be? Might be interesting to see.
To Give you more details
The rng is....
I was matched against an opponent with 2.5m character gp but not enough ships to meet division 2 therefore limiting my battles to 6 since he was division 3.
Other people with 2.3m character gp got matched against people with a lot of ships so they could do 8 battles and progress normally in division 2 leagues.
so players have their max points possible randomly limited by capping battles which hurts league progression which is directly tied to rewards so imo it's a major problem unless addressed.
I believe what the devs are hoping is that as this happens by rng, over time everyone will have the same bad luck getting 6v6 matches equally. So everyone will feel equally cheated.
This thread hurts my head, but this portion is concerning to me. I dont see how that can or should happen.
I'm not so worried about the points issue, but if a person that can field 8 good teams is forced to fight against a person that can only field 6 and they are limited to 6, that actually hurts the person with the stronger roster because it artificially levels the playing field.
Just spitballing: I dont think they will or should release the algorithm as then it can be gamed.
BUT, I would be curious how it would perform if the matchmaking algorithm was as simple as the discord bot output. You would probably have to weight mods very low or not at all, because they are a huge variable, but if the rest of the items were toggle flags or +/- 5%-ish, how good would it be? Might be interesting to see.
To Give you more details
The rng is....
I was matched against an opponent with 2.5m character gp but not enough ships to meet division 2 therefore limiting my battles to 6 since he was division 3.
Other people with 2.3m character gp got matched against people with a lot of ships so they could do 8 battles and progress normally in division 2 leagues.
so players have their max points possible randomly limited by capping battles which hurts league progression which is directly tied to rewards so imo it's a major problem unless addressed.
I believe what the devs are hoping is that as this happens by rng, over time everyone will have the same bad luck getting 6v6 matches equally. So everyone will feel equally cheated.
that is not necessarily true, it is more likely that someone at the lower end of the range will be matched this way, so its not equal. (in theory, at least)
Fair point. But difference between 6 and 8 teams is 33% points, so if rewards for lower leagues on higher division exceeds top leagues on previous division (which I really doubt)
But you get more points than just for setting teams and attacking. You get points for winning rounds and for doing feats. We can’t say the percentage difference until we know the total number of points gained.
Fair point. But difference between 6 and 8 teams is 33% points, so if rewards for lower leagues on higher division exceeds top leagues on previous division (which I really doubt)
But you get more points than just for setting teams and attacking. You get points for winning rounds and for doing feats. We can’t say the percentage difference until we know the total number of points gained.
but should someone be forced to focus on other efforts to stay equal with an opponent due to a forced match up? it just doesn't feel right. all other things being equal, they are still down those points no matter how small a percent they are of the total.
I agree that its not the full picture (the percent shown) but its a factor, and once we see full rewards there will be a clearer picture on how this will play out.
This thread hurts my head, but this portion is concerning to me. I dont see how that can or should happen.
I'm not so worried about the points issue, but if a person that can field 8 good teams is forced to fight against a person that can only field 6 and they are limited to 6, that actually hurts the person with the stronger roster because it artificially levels the playing field.
Just spitballing: I dont think they will or should release the algorithm as then it can be gamed.
BUT, I would be curious how it would perform if the matchmaking algorithm was as simple as the discord bot output. You would probably have to weight mods very low or not at all, because they are a huge variable, but if the rest of the items were toggle flags or +/- 5%-ish, how good would it be? Might be interesting to see.
To Give you more details
The rng is....
I was matched against an opponent with 2.5m character gp but not enough ships to meet division 2 therefore limiting my battles to 6 since he was division 3.
Other people with 2.3m character gp got matched against people with a lot of ships so they could do 8 battles and progress normally in division 2 leagues.
so players have their max points possible randomly limited by capping battles which hurts league progression which is directly tied to rewards so imo it's a major problem unless addressed.
I believe what the devs are hoping is that as this happens by rng, over time everyone will have the same bad luck getting 6v6 matches equally. So everyone will feel equally cheated.
that is not necessarily true, it is more likely that someone at the lower end of the range will be matched this way, so its not equal. (in theory, at least)
I would disagree that the cause is the lower end of the range, I think cross division more likely to happen to players with a lot of ships.
After all, the mismatch is caused by a player with a lot of ship GP fighting a player low ship GP. This causes the character GP to be equal but the total GP used for divisions to be different.
We are now full circle and you can understand that sandbagging ship GP will help prevent players from being mismatched in GAC.
Sandbagging ship GP is the best strategy to win your division since your giving yourself the shot at not being "battle limited" to 6 in my case... But this applies to all players across all divisions.
Hopefully they recognize this as a design flaw and do something to Equalize the battles across all players within a given division.
What's reward structure have to do with it? Especially when your disadvantaged by cross devision play
OP is correct in what has saying, dang my 7yr old could get that... funny how many miss the point totally.
Biggest point is CG couldn't anticipate getting wet on a rainy day in recent times
This is not the sollution.
I do however agree that the current setup seems to be flawed when some players in the same division can get more banners than others simply due to having more available def slots.
7v7
Defensive banners 90 x 7 = 630
Offensive banners 60 x 7 = 420
For a total of 1050 not including conquer points
6v6
Defensive banners 90 x 6 = 540
Offensive banners 60 x 6 = 360
For a totsl of 900 banners
So a player who should be in 7v7 (div 2+) cause of total gp fights a person who fights in 6v6 (div 3) due to toon only gp is at a 150 banner loss from division ranking not including an additional 30 points cause 1 territory has 1 less defensive team in a zone so hes at 180 banner difference uf his peirs (div 2) did perfect/same clears and thats 1 round if it happened for all 3 matches hes at a 540 points less then those who fought at 7v7 instead down a bracket at 6v6 even though they have the same gp
This thread hurts my head, but this portion is concerning to me. I dont see how that can or should happen.
I'm not so worried about the points issue, but if a person that can field 8 good teams is forced to fight against a person that can only field 6 and they are limited to 6, that actually hurts the person with the stronger roster because it artificially levels the playing field.
Just spitballing: I dont think they will or should release the algorithm as then it can be gamed.
BUT, I would be curious how it would perform if the matchmaking algorithm was as simple as the discord bot output. You would probably have to weight mods very low or not at all, because they are a huge variable, but if the rest of the items were toggle flags or +/- 5%-ish, how good would it be? Might be interesting to see.
To Give you more details
The rng is....
I was matched against an opponent with 2.5m character gp but not enough ships to meet division 2 therefore limiting my battles to 6 since he was division 3.
Other people with 2.3m character gp got matched against people with a lot of ships so they could do 8 battles and progress normally in division 2 leagues.
so players have their max points possible randomly limited by capping battles which hurts league progression which is directly tied to rewards so imo it's a major problem unless addressed.
I believe what the devs are hoping is that as this happens by rng, over time everyone will have the same bad luck getting 6v6 matches equally. So everyone will feel equally cheated.
that is not necessarily true, it is more likely that someone at the lower end of the range will be matched this way, so its not equal. (in theory, at least)
I would disagree that the cause is the lower end of the range, I think cross division more likely to happen to players with a lot of ships.
After all, the mismatch is caused by a player with a lot of ship GP fighting a player low ship GP. This causes the character GP to be equal but the total GP used for divisions to be different.
We are now full circle and you can understand that sandbagging ship GP will help prevent players from being mismatched in GAC.
Sandbagging ship GP is the best strategy to win your division since your giving yourself the shot at not being "battle limited" to 6 in my case... But this applies to all players across all divisions.
Hopefully they recognize this as a design flaw and do something to Equalize the battles across all players within a given division.
Hindering your progress in ships is a death nail in this game. You may think it's an advantage here, but it's not. On top of that you slow your zeta progress and that is a direct influence on your ability to win with characters.
The lower GP players in a division will always be more likely to be in this situation because there numbers will be closer to the next division down, no matter the make up. Ship heavy, ship light doesnt matter because there is only so much GP and ship is a fixed percent of that total.
Ah yes, so you see, the central issue here is that ships are a bust, have never been an interesting mode. They had potential before launch but the guy who was leading that effort got sacked and the rest neglected to take out the "ship synergy" references because of schedule pressure, so now here we are with this add-on that never worked and what do we do now. I mean honestly, if the primary reason for developing your ships is to earn ZETAS to make your CHARACTERS better, then clearly ships are secondary. Should have taken the hint and made characters your primary focus. If you didn't that's okay, just deal with what you got.
GAC structure is a clear statement that the devs look at it that way too.
It's just a game anyway. No sense getting completely unhinged about it.
Ah yes, so you see, the central issue here is that ships are a bust, have never been an interesting mode. They had potential before launch but the guy who was leading that effort got sacked and the rest neglected to take out the "ship synergy" references because of schedule pressure, so now here we are with this add-on that never worked and what do we do now. I mean honestly, if the primary reason for developing your ships is to earn ZETAS to make your CHARACTERS better, then clearly ships are secondary. Should have taken the hint and made characters your primary focus. If you didn't that's okay, just deal with what you got.
GAC structure is a clear statement that the devs look at it that way too.
It's just a game anyway. No sense getting completely unhinged about it.
Is it though? If that's how the team looked at it we would have gotten a division system solely based on toon gp and not one which benefits from better rewards for total gp.
Ah yes, so you see, the central issue here is that ships are a bust, have never been an interesting mode. They had potential before launch but the guy who was leading that effort got sacked and the rest neglected to take out the "ship synergy" references because of schedule pressure, so now here we are with this add-on that never worked and what do we do now. I mean honestly, if the primary reason for developing your ships is to earn ZETAS to make your CHARACTERS better, then clearly ships are secondary. Should have taken the hint and made characters your primary focus. If you didn't that's okay, just deal with what you got.
GAC structure is a clear statement that the devs look at it that way too.
It's just a game anyway. No sense getting completely unhinged about it.
Is it though? If that's how the team looked at it we would have gotten a division system solely based on toon gp and not one which benefits from better rewards for total gp.
Yeah well ships exist, so they have to be included somehow.
Ah yes, so you see, the central issue here is that ships are a bust, have never been an interesting mode. They had potential before launch but the guy who was leading that effort got sacked and the rest neglected to take out the "ship synergy" references because of schedule pressure, so now here we are with this add-on that never worked and what do we do now. I mean honestly, if the primary reason for developing your ships is to earn ZETAS to make your CHARACTERS better, then clearly ships are secondary. Should have taken the hint and made characters your primary focus. If you didn't that's okay, just deal with what you got.
GAC structure is a clear statement that the devs look at it that way too.
It's just a game anyway. No sense getting completely unhinged about it.
Ships are a bust to you and some other vocals, most notably the ones who refuse to gear any toon not the arena meta or needed for a legendary.
Now CG is basically handing people meta fleets composed of toons everyone should have geared and zetad like bossk, han chewy, biggs (og meta), even people who hate ships should be taking 1 they very day in fleet.
But either way like everything else CG has the data... good to see new stuff coming (someday lol)
And the vocal hate ships minority are not running the show.
Star wars game.... ships major SW lore, the rosters and synergies will expand and someday we will have some pve content to play with
Ah yes, so you see, the central issue here is that ships are a bust, have never been an interesting mode. They had potential before launch but the guy who was leading that effort got sacked and the rest neglected to take out the "ship synergy" references because of schedule pressure, so now here we are with this add-on that never worked and what do we do now. I mean honestly, if the primary reason for developing your ships is to earn ZETAS to make your CHARACTERS better, then clearly ships are secondary. Should have taken the hint and made characters your primary focus. If you didn't that's okay, just deal with what you got.
GAC structure is a clear statement that the devs look at it that way too.
It's just a game anyway. No sense getting completely unhinged about it.
Is it though? If that's how the team looked at it we would have gotten a division system solely based on toon gp and not one which benefits from better rewards for total gp.
Yeah well ships exist, so they have to be included somehow.
They don't need to include ship gp be effectful in prize structure. CG chose to and I approve. They gave %80 worth of arena crystal prizes for ship arena prizes for the same reason. There's zero indication they are putting ships on hold, there's much indication CG is looking into developing them further.
Ships seems to be a bonus to me here.... Extra Ship GP get's me into division 1 but hopefully I'll be fighting div 2-4 people who have crappy toon GP like me....
Anyway the Kyber rewards are so sick compared to EVERYTHING else.... There is going to be soooooo much hate by the "majority" of the game not in Kyber 5000 vs 1450 from chromium even 2100 from aurodium..
oh well the best part is there is zero reason to try to win a lower tier instead of coming in last in a higher tier.... They nailed that part.
I will NEVER make kyber and 99 percent chance i'll never see aurodium..... I think I will have to fight HARD just to make 1450 in chromium...
is what it is... but seriously this is 1000x more fun than regular GA and we have not even played it yet... it's exciting... (unless I finish carbonite every GAC) then it sucks hahahahaha
EDIT whoever takes 1st in kyber.... GRATS to you sirs... there is no equal to thine credit limit....
(kiddin aside) tons of people have the max power of the credit card..... what will be truly amazing to see is who has the power of the credit card AND the power of super sayian to defeat the other credit cards..
good LUCK to all !!!!!!!!! either way should be a blast
Hopefully this edit by CG Erik in bold red letters has to do with removing the cross division battle limiter that slows player league progression...
EDIT: The team is making some limited changes to matchmaking for this next Championship. We will continue to monitor and will let you know if there are any further changes.
Hopefully this edit by CG Erik in bold red letters has to do with removing the cross division battle limiter that slows player league progression...
EDIT: The team is making some limited changes to matchmaking for this next Championship. We will continue to monitor and will let you know if there are any further changes.
Hopefully it has something to do with the announced new matchmaking algo as well, as that was nowhere to be seen first time around.
Cross Division play needs to stay..... There is no way for me to compete against people with 119 G12 toons would literally be pointless for me to even join lol...
They are not talking about getting rid of it are they ?
Cross Division play needs to stay..... There is no way for me to compete against people with 119 G12 toons would literally be pointless for me to even join lol...
They are not talking about getting rid of it are they ?
What makes you think it's cross divisions that saves you? Currently you get matched on toon gp...and as far as visible from everyone's match-ups, it's done randomly as long as toon gp matches.
Replies
so much schilling makes it hard to take you
So many things wrong with this "sentence."
that doesn't even the playing field, because those with lower gps can't field as many effective teams as those with higher gps. so lowering the number of teams makes it boring for whales, while raising the number of teams makes it lopsided in favor of the whales.
CG should have learned the lesson the last time they tried to come out with a mode like this, tying reward levels too strongly to unlevel competitive play is always a bad idea. that was why they killed the idea the first time.
I believe what the devs are hoping is that as this happens by rng, over time everyone will have the same bad luck getting 6v6 matches equally. So everyone will feel equally cheated.
That's what we call a run on sentence. If you can't understand it, it's not a sensetense
It's not that I can't understand it, it's that I'm still waiting for it to end.
that is not necessarily true, it is more likely that someone at the lower end of the range will be matched this way, so its not equal. (in theory, at least)
Oh kinda like this? I simmed the fleet challenge today and
But you get more points than just for setting teams and attacking. You get points for winning rounds and for doing feats. We can’t say the percentage difference until we know the total number of points gained.
Except the schil part of course
Still at least two things wrong with this "sentence" as well.
but should someone be forced to focus on other efforts to stay equal with an opponent due to a forced match up? it just doesn't feel right. all other things being equal, they are still down those points no matter how small a percent they are of the total.
I agree that its not the full picture (the percent shown) but its a factor, and once we see full rewards there will be a clearer picture on how this will play out.
I would disagree that the cause is the lower end of the range, I think cross division more likely to happen to players with a lot of ships.
After all, the mismatch is caused by a player with a lot of ship GP fighting a player low ship GP. This causes the character GP to be equal but the total GP used for divisions to be different.
We are now full circle and you can understand that sandbagging ship GP will help prevent players from being mismatched in GAC.
Sandbagging ship GP is the best strategy to win your division since your giving yourself the shot at not being "battle limited" to 6 in my case... But this applies to all players across all divisions.
Hopefully they recognize this as a design flaw and do something to Equalize the battles across all players within a given division.
OP is correct in what has saying, dang my 7yr old could get that... funny how many miss the point totally.
Biggest point is CG couldn't anticipate getting wet on a rainy day in recent times
This is not the sollution.
I do however agree that the current setup seems to be flawed when some players in the same division can get more banners than others simply due to having more available def slots.
Defensive banners 90 x 7 = 630
Offensive banners 60 x 7 = 420
For a total of 1050 not including conquer points
6v6
Defensive banners 90 x 6 = 540
Offensive banners 60 x 6 = 360
For a totsl of 900 banners
So a player who should be in 7v7 (div 2+) cause of total gp fights a person who fights in 6v6 (div 3) due to toon only gp is at a 150 banner loss from division ranking not including an additional 30 points cause 1 territory has 1 less defensive team in a zone so hes at 180 banner difference uf his peirs (div 2) did perfect/same clears and thats 1 round if it happened for all 3 matches hes at a 540 points less then those who fought at 7v7 instead down a bracket at 6v6 even though they have the same gp
Hindering your progress in ships is a death nail in this game. You may think it's an advantage here, but it's not. On top of that you slow your zeta progress and that is a direct influence on your ability to win with characters.
The lower GP players in a division will always be more likely to be in this situation because there numbers will be closer to the next division down, no matter the make up. Ship heavy, ship light doesnt matter because there is only so much GP and ship is a fixed percent of that total.
It kinda is:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naglfar
In Norse mythology, Naglfar or Naglfari (Old Norse "nail farer") is a boat made entirely from the fingernails and toenails of the dead.
Eve Version:
Witcher Version:
GAC structure is a clear statement that the devs look at it that way too.
It's just a game anyway. No sense getting completely unhinged about it.
Is it though? If that's how the team looked at it we would have gotten a division system solely based on toon gp and not one which benefits from better rewards for total gp.
Yeah well ships exist, so they have to be included somehow.
Ships are a bust to you and some other vocals, most notably the ones who refuse to gear any toon not the arena meta or needed for a legendary.
Now CG is basically handing people meta fleets composed of toons everyone should have geared and zetad like bossk, han chewy, biggs (og meta), even people who hate ships should be taking 1 they very day in fleet.
But either way like everything else CG has the data... good to see new stuff coming (someday lol)
And the vocal hate ships minority are not running the show.
Star wars game.... ships major SW lore, the rosters and synergies will expand and someday we will have some pve content to play with
They don't need to include ship gp be effectful in prize structure. CG chose to and I approve. They gave %80 worth of arena crystal prizes for ship arena prizes for the same reason. There's zero indication they are putting ships on hold, there's much indication CG is looking into developing them further.
Anyway the Kyber rewards are so sick compared to EVERYTHING else.... There is going to be soooooo much hate by the "majority" of the game not in Kyber 5000 vs 1450 from chromium even 2100 from aurodium..
oh well the best part is there is zero reason to try to win a lower tier instead of coming in last in a higher tier.... They nailed that part.
I will NEVER make kyber and 99 percent chance i'll never see aurodium..... I think I will have to fight HARD just to make 1450 in chromium...
is what it is... but seriously this is 1000x more fun than regular GA and we have not even played it yet... it's exciting... (unless I finish carbonite every GAC) then it sucks hahahahaha
EDIT whoever takes 1st in kyber.... GRATS to you sirs... there is no equal to thine credit limit....
(kiddin aside) tons of people have the max power of the credit card..... what will be truly amazing to see is who has the power of the credit card AND the power of super sayian to defeat the other credit cards..
good LUCK to all !!!!!!!!! either way should be a blast
EDIT: The team is making some limited changes to matchmaking for this next Championship. We will continue to monitor and will let you know if there are any further changes.
Hopefully it has something to do with the announced new matchmaking algo as well, as that was nowhere to be seen first time around.
They are not talking about getting rid of it are they ?
What makes you think it's cross divisions that saves you? Currently you get matched on toon gp...and as far as visible from everyone's match-ups, it's done randomly as long as toon gp matches.