I just did the same thing manually with paper and a calculator for my grouping, it’s all within a couple of thousand.. anomaly being the guy with 4.2mil gp, he has a lot of spare g10/11 toons after the 8def 8 off squads are taken into account
Thanks!. I’ve done 6 “shards” for guild mates and they are all very similar distributions. My shard is the only one with a real outlier. He has 3 gold toons but 110 g11 - so has very high raw GP but very low (comparatively) “top toon” GP (only 3 can have 6 dot mods for example).
Again I’m not joining the right or wrong debate - but hope this informs people of how it is done and why they are matched up.
So it is literary other way around now as before, its extremely favorite ppl with broad roster. Since their GP will be higher so they will be in higher division and they will have more characters so more tries to beat oponent.
If I had time today I would go find all the posts from people that asked for *exactly this* method of matchmaking and are now claiming it’s worse than before. Because there were a lot of posts claiming this was the way to go.
If I had time today I would go find all the posts from people that asked for *exactly this* method of matchmaking and are now claiming it’s worse than before. Because there were a lot of posts claiming this was the way to go.
Exactly what? Are you going to find posts which asks for algorithm description (matchmaking are based on toons you are "allowed to use", whatever it means) or actual implementation (matchmaking are based on partial roster but you still allowed to use full)?
If you click the little "i" icon in the grand arena event it says
"Grand Arena matchmaking is based on the maximum power of the units a player is allowed to use based on the number of squads allowed to be deployed in this event"
Can you explain in detail exactly what that means across each division
if it is true that the matchmaking is mostly based on defense teams x2, then people can reach a breaking point.
If the strongest, lets say 80, chars are counting, the opponent could have every other char at g12 while my other chars are g1.
This could lead to mismatches.
But no one here knows the algorithm, so lets wait for what comes next I suppose
Shouldn’t get punished for having a focused roster now maybe they should have found a happy medium instead of going the complete opposite way.
So why should I be punished because I have a broad roster?
I've got a very high GP because I love ships (not relevant to this GAC, since ships are factored out, thankfully) and because I have a lot of g7, g8, and g9 characters at 7* level 85 with basic health mods and all abilities at just below Omega (and, for quite a few, at Omega).
Why should I be punished for developing my characters in a game that's LITERALLY ABOUT developing characters?
And don't tell me that I have an inherent advantage already because that roster means I have depth--When there are only 8 defensive teams, there's no way my g8 Old Republic team is going to be used on offense. So, again, why should I be punished for playing the game the way it's intended? Because, for all the previous Grand Arenas, I *have* been punished.
So now it seems like the name of the game is being choosy about exactly which you power up. This is a very welcome change. Suddenly tactics entered the game.
So now it seems like the name of the game is being choosy about exactly which you power up. This is a very welcome change. Suddenly tactics entered the game.
No they didn't. It's "gear/mod the top toons you use for everything and ignore everything else"....like it's always been.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
So now it seems like the name of the game is being choosy about exactly which you power up. This is a very welcome change. Suddenly tactics entered the game.
No they didn't. It's "gear/mod the top toons you use for everything and ignore everything else"....like it's always been.
No, because you get to use all of the extra people for O. It benefits both types of Rosters.
Changing the matchmaking rules now negates hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success.
What tournament tries to make first round matches even? This flips the tournament. It would be like having all the 15 and 16 seeds play each other in the first round, and all the 1 and 2 seeds play each other in the first round. Then the 1 and 2 seeds that lose go to the loser's bracket and hope for a favorable matchup.
Why have divisions base on gp when matchmaking is based on something completely different? Should rewards be base on wins, quality of competition, or gp?
I'm not going to rage quit a game I have so much invested in without seeing how it plays out. All these consecutive fails is frustrating. The first ga tourney roll out was a complete fail. The second has tuned matchmaking upside down compared to what was used in ga. People that were serious about ga, built their rosters based on the old matchmaking. By the way, they screwed up the new tb before it even started. What are the odds that it runs smooth when it actually launches.
If I had time today I would go find all the posts from people that asked for *exactly this* method of matchmaking and are now claiming it’s worse than before. Because there were a lot of posts claiming this was the way to go.
Exactly what? Are you going to find posts which asks for algorithm description (matchmaking are based on toons you are "allowed to use", whatever it means) or actual implementation (matchmaking are based on partial roster but you still allowed to use full)?
I don’t understand the question. I am referring to the posts that said, essentially, “Easy solution to matchmaking: Just look at the GP of the top 70 characters.” Of which there were many.
Changing the matchmaking rules now negates hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success.
I'll fix that for you: "Changing the matchmaking rules now negates the huge matchmaking advantage from hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success." It also eliminates the huge matchmaking disadvantage from people who spent hundreds of hours building rosters focused on raids and TB before TW and GA ever existed.
What tournament tries to make first round matches even? This flips the tournament. It would be like having all the 15 and 16 seeds play each other in the first round, and all the 1 and 2 seeds play each other in the first round. Then the 1 and 2 seeds that lose go to the loser's bracket and hope for a favorable matchup.
What tournament guarantees you an easy win in the first round robin match? There is a reason why they are moving people up in divisions and rewards increase based on performance as the GAC progresses.
Why have divisions base on gp when matchmaking is based on something completely different? Should rewards be base on wins, quality of competition, or gp?
Because rewards that have a huge impact on a 1M GP player may have barely any benefit at all to a 4.5M GP player so the rewards need to be scaled using some method besides a W/L record.
I used the .help APIs and pulled all my GAC "shard" into excel, checked their toons GP , and can confirm that adding the top 60 ( 5 toons x 6 zones x 2 ) gives a very very close number. We almost for all , the exception being one guy who happens to have almost 800k (3.9m v 3.1m) more GP than the lowest guy. I "blended" the raw GP and top 60 and it sort of makes sense at about 2:1 (2 top 60 1 raw toon). Not saying this is good or bad - but this is how it seems it is.
GP MM GP
3834864 1199462
3167983 1215793
3765605 1200165
3678436 1199026
3964395 1034832
3489225 1201423
3702813 1202234
3451415 1198993
If i have a much larger GP i will have more squad options or be able to re-try with another squad. That’s a huge advantage. I think GP differences would be fine with the new matchmaking if the difference wasn’t so huge.
Wow! I hadn’t realised that people hadn’t already seen this. It was there in the aborted GA too.
Personally I think it will result in some really good battles, and over a 5 week timescale people will probably find themselves in the “right” place in the rankings.
The big differentiation will come from the quality of the stats of your mods (which don’t count towards GP) and the presence (or absence) of the big meta characters (26k of Revan is intrinsically worth more than 100k of garbage). But that is the way it always has been.
Give it time people...
26K revan is worth more than my 1.6 mil character GP.... I can’t beat the thing and have to go full defense to have a chance to win. But that’s not really a GAC issue, it’s bad, very bad, very very bad, character design.
If I had time today I would go find all the posts from people that asked for *exactly this* method of matchmaking and are now claiming it’s worse than before. Because there were a lot of posts claiming this was the way to go.
Exactly what? Are you going to find posts which asks for algorithm description (matchmaking are based on toons you are "allowed to use", whatever it means) or actual implementation (matchmaking are based on partial roster but you still allowed to use full)?
I don’t understand the question. I am referring to the posts that said, essentially, “Easy solution to matchmaking: Just look at the GP of the top 70 characters.” Of which there were many.
Yes, but just because someone suggested it on these forums doesn’t mean that it was a good idea. As a game developer, they should make the best matchmaking system for their game regardless of what’s said on the forums. I’m not sure if this is better or worse. Some obvious limitations of the new system:
1. CLS and team is not equal strength in GAC to a JKR team or DR team, but their GPs are equal (actually I think the CLS team has a higher potential GP).
2. Once your top 60-80 get closer to maxed, it would put everyone in a much larger pool so that you could easily see 4 million GP people matched with 5 million GP. The 5 million GP person will typically have better mods as a result of doing more farming (potentially over a longer time).
3. This ties to the first. GP is not reflective of strength and was not originally developed to match for events like this. In fact, last year CG stated that GP alone is not a good metric for matching in TW and other factor such as team synergy need to be taken into account. Not sure why GP is better for GA. GP calculations should be updated for use in GA so that characters like DR would have a higher ceiling on GP compared to others.
All that said, we’ll see if this system is better than the last. It can’t be much worse than the first one where they used ship GP to match people without allowing the use of ships.
If I had time today I would go find all the posts from people that asked for *exactly this* method of matchmaking and are now claiming it’s worse than before. Because there were a lot of posts claiming this was the way to go.
Exactly what? Are you going to find posts which asks for algorithm description (matchmaking are based on toons you are "allowed to use", whatever it means) or actual implementation (matchmaking are based on partial roster but you still allowed to use full)?
I don’t understand the question. I am referring to the posts that said, essentially, “Easy solution to matchmaking: Just look at the GP of the top 70 characters.” Of which there were many.
Yes, but just because someone suggested it on these forums doesn’t mean that it was a good idea. As a game developer, they should make the best matchmaking system for their game regardless of what’s said on the forums. I’m not sure if this is better or worse.
I never said it was a good idea. I argued in the threads in which it was suggested that it might not be a good idea. My point is merely that it’s likely that some of the same people who previously insisted it was a great idea are now complaining about it in practice.
Interesting that they do not communicate the ingredients of their matchmaking formula. And they only react instead of being pro-active and say: we will change this.
Always the same.... and i expect a nerf behind the scene on GP as they tried to manipulate the formula to calculate it and were caught by observing players, thats my guess on it. Trust has to be earned! Remember that.... always.
It generally isn't a good idea to tell people exactly how matchmaking works because that just leads to people trying to game the system.
So now it seems like the name of the game is being choosy about exactly which you power up. This is a very welcome change. Suddenly tactics entered the game.
No they didn't. It's "gear/mod the top toons you use for everything and ignore everything else"....like it's always been.
No, because you get to use all of the extra people for O. It benefits both types of Rosters.
Except that any team that has been meta in the last year+ can't be "zerged" down by "extra people". If you don't have specific counters for DR/Malak, JTR teams, Triumverate, CLS, etc. it's almost impossible to simply send in waves of "B" or "C" teams to take them out piece meal like you can other teams. Heck, even Bastilla, FO and BH can be rough if you don't beat them the first time in.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Changing the matchmaking rules now negates hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success.
I'll fix that for you: "Changing the matchmaking rules now negates the huge matchmaking advantage from hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success." It also eliminates the huge matchmaking disadvantage from people who spent hundreds of hours building rosters focused on raids and TB before TW and GA ever existed.
What tournament tries to make first round matches even? This flips the tournament. It would be like having all the 15 and 16 seeds play each other in the first round, and all the 1 and 2 seeds play each other in the first round. Then the 1 and 2 seeds that lose go to the loser's bracket and hope for a favorable matchup.
What tournament guarantees you an easy win in the first round robin match? There is a reason why they are moving people up in divisions and rewards increase based on performance as the GAC progresses.
Why have divisions base on gp when matchmaking is based on something completely different? Should rewards be base on wins, quality of competition, or gp?
Because rewards that have a huge impact on a 1M GP player may have barely any benefit at all to a 4.5M GP player so the rewards need to be scaled using some method besides a W/L record.
Someone in my group of 8 is at 2.6 million. Another is at 3.6 million. The 3.6m has only 15 G12, and has almost every other character being at G7-G9. The 2.6m has 22 G12 and has about 15 more at G11 (I counted). As long as the 2.6m player plans correctly, he will wipe the floor with the 3.6m player. Remember that this is an Exhibition round, and that it is not the end of the world if you do not get paired with someone that perfectly matches your GP. At the end of the day, you are playing a game. Thats all. Maybe we should all take a breathe and remember that.
Not only that, but this would be the first of many battles if this were the 5 week contest. You would be more closely matched each time as you move in rankings.
This exactly! Maybe you don't take 1st the first couple of weeks, but maybe you do the last 3 once you get matched with players more closely matches! This is just a game people. If you can't handle not being perfectly 1st all of the time, I have some news for you: You will never get 1st every single time.
Man you are in every single thread considering matchmaking and you are seriously annoying.
1st appertanly you cannot process information so i will help you with. There is nothing in life where for winning against stronger opponents you get less than for winning against lesser opponents. Which is now the case as you fight higher division people for your devision rewards for example
2nd apparently you are non competetive person who doesnt care and havent invested any time in planning and so on. You might find the story line of the game and the animation appealing and be happy to go every day clicking the same buttons and cheer when you got some desired pixel...
Apperantly you are not in the minority, but there are a lot of highly competetive people that spend tremendous amount of time planning and executing so that they have the best chance to win. Now the people that click at any shine green plus are supposed to be rewarded for their lack of effort, and you punish the people putting the effort and work... thats sounds fair...
3d the system is broken, unlogical amd unfair. You ignore all the evidences and just go after your confirmation bias. While all man are influenced by this bias, as it is in the group of congitive biases, people with slower cognitive processing are more susceptible to it
- top 40-80 toons... so what if i have exactly 80 good toons but 10 of those are pilots unusable in GA. The other guy has 90 good toons with 10 pilots, so he has 10 extra maxed ground units. This is fair... well yeah... cause the top 80 are equal... make no sence or what so ever. Not all teams are equal, neither all counters. If someone has 20-30 more maxed toons he can be more flexible with his choice of counter or even setting a defence accordingly to what you dont have. You have only the 80 units and thats it... 0 flexibility, 0 margin of error, no way to take a toon more fitting for the deffence setted.
This game is resources based game. The proper resource use should be rewarded. TW is there for ever so inflating for TB is a bid old... one had enough time to focus and develop since than. And if you still have prioritized TB over TW than you should be rewarded in TB... not in TW and GA...
Probably you want understand what i am saying and will pick just the things that can be accommodated in your flawed believe system... but if 100k people complaib about something, people who never complained about anything so far, even though not everything was perfect, that should make even a person likd you to stop and think for a second
Replies
You sir deserve a round of applause..
I just did the same thing manually with paper and a calculator for my grouping, it’s all within a couple of thousand.. anomaly being the guy with 4.2mil gp, he has a lot of spare g10/11 toons after the 8def 8 off squads are taken into account
Again I’m not joining the right or wrong debate - but hope this informs people of how it is done and why they are matched up.
In my bracket all of my opponents are from a higher division and have between 500 k and 1 million GP more than me.
Having an opponent with JKR, Dr Evan and a 500 k GP advantage is not gonna be much fun methinks
Oh well
Exactly what?
Can you explain in detail exactly what that means across each division
If the strongest, lets say 80, chars are counting, the opponent could have every other char at g12 while my other chars are g1.
This could lead to mismatches.
But no one here knows the algorithm, so lets wait for what comes next I suppose
I've got a very high GP because I love ships (not relevant to this GAC, since ships are factored out, thankfully) and because I have a lot of g7, g8, and g9 characters at 7* level 85 with basic health mods and all abilities at just below Omega (and, for quite a few, at Omega).
Why should I be punished for developing my characters in a game that's LITERALLY ABOUT developing characters?
And don't tell me that I have an inherent advantage already because that roster means I have depth--When there are only 8 defensive teams, there's no way my g8 Old Republic team is going to be used on offense. So, again, why should I be punished for playing the game the way it's intended? Because, for all the previous Grand Arenas, I *have* been punished.
Welcome to my world. Grow your roster.
The larger player Is hamstrung because they cant put more teams on D that the smaller player would probably not have enough answers for.
The smaller player is hurt because the larger player will have more teams to use for offense.
But the top 60-80 toons should be evenly matched.
So it encourages you to to use your absolute best teams on O and D. And doesnt punish you for having more people.
I see the logic. I'm not saying its perfect but its a compromise. Fight the battles and see how it works out.
No they didn't. It's "gear/mod the top toons you use for everything and ignore everything else"....like it's always been.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
No, because you get to use all of the extra people for O. It benefits both types of Rosters.
Changing the matchmaking rules now negates hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success.
What tournament tries to make first round matches even? This flips the tournament. It would be like having all the 15 and 16 seeds play each other in the first round, and all the 1 and 2 seeds play each other in the first round. Then the 1 and 2 seeds that lose go to the loser's bracket and hope for a favorable matchup.
Why have divisions base on gp when matchmaking is based on something completely different? Should rewards be base on wins, quality of competition, or gp?
I'm not going to rage quit a game I have so much invested in without seeing how it plays out. All these consecutive fails is frustrating. The first ga tourney roll out was a complete fail. The second has tuned matchmaking upside down compared to what was used in ga. People that were serious about ga, built their rosters based on the old matchmaking. By the way, they screwed up the new tb before it even started. What are the odds that it runs smooth when it actually launches.
I don’t understand the question. I am referring to the posts that said, essentially, “Easy solution to matchmaking: Just look at the GP of the top 70 characters.” Of which there were many.
I'll fix that for you: "Changing the matchmaking rules now negates the huge matchmaking advantage from hundreds of hours of creating a roster focused on tw and ga success." It also eliminates the huge matchmaking disadvantage from people who spent hundreds of hours building rosters focused on raids and TB before TW and GA ever existed.
What tournament guarantees you an easy win in the first round robin match? There is a reason why they are moving people up in divisions and rewards increase based on performance as the GAC progresses.
Because rewards that have a huge impact on a 1M GP player may have barely any benefit at all to a 4.5M GP player so the rewards need to be scaled using some method besides a W/L record.
Good call! There are likely still a lot of adjustments to come in GAC.
If i have a much larger GP i will have more squad options or be able to re-try with another squad. That’s a huge advantage. I think GP differences would be fine with the new matchmaking if the difference wasn’t so huge.
26K revan is worth more than my 1.6 mil character GP.... I can’t beat the thing and have to go full defense to have a chance to win. But that’s not really a GAC issue, it’s bad, very bad, very very bad, character design.
Yes, but just because someone suggested it on these forums doesn’t mean that it was a good idea. As a game developer, they should make the best matchmaking system for their game regardless of what’s said on the forums. I’m not sure if this is better or worse. Some obvious limitations of the new system:
1. CLS and team is not equal strength in GAC to a JKR team or DR team, but their GPs are equal (actually I think the CLS team has a higher potential GP).
2. Once your top 60-80 get closer to maxed, it would put everyone in a much larger pool so that you could easily see 4 million GP people matched with 5 million GP. The 5 million GP person will typically have better mods as a result of doing more farming (potentially over a longer time).
3. This ties to the first. GP is not reflective of strength and was not originally developed to match for events like this. In fact, last year CG stated that GP alone is not a good metric for matching in TW and other factor such as team synergy need to be taken into account. Not sure why GP is better for GA. GP calculations should be updated for use in GA so that characters like DR would have a higher ceiling on GP compared to others.
All that said, we’ll see if this system is better than the last. It can’t be much worse than the first one where they used ship GP to match people without allowing the use of ships.
I never said it was a good idea. I argued in the threads in which it was suggested that it might not be a good idea. My point is merely that it’s likely that some of the same people who previously insisted it was a great idea are now complaining about it in practice.
Be careful what you wish for.
Opponent: 3.75 mil
It generally isn't a good idea to tell people exactly how matchmaking works because that just leads to people trying to game the system.
Except that any team that has been meta in the last year+ can't be "zerged" down by "extra people". If you don't have specific counters for DR/Malak, JTR teams, Triumverate, CLS, etc. it's almost impossible to simply send in waves of "B" or "C" teams to take them out piece meal like you can other teams. Heck, even Bastilla, FO and BH can be rough if you don't beat them the first time in.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
This is beautiful.
Btw, you will be attacked for your sound reason and logic.
Could you elaborate please?