Is a non-Phoenix route now viable?

Shadowscream
723 posts Member
edited June 29
People have made several posts on this....and I’m well aware of the benefits of Phoenix (I did them first!).
However it might be very viable to aim at these teams:
  • Geos and Brood Alpha —> Strong early Fleet and with Brood Alpha GA/TW/TB team
  • BHs —> Heists and Fleet
  • GRepublic Jedi —> GMY, Fleet and stronger now
  • Ewoks —> C3PO and zeta mats (Wicket)
  • Nightsisters —> HSTR, Zeta source (MTalzin)
  • Separatist Droids —> Padme

Eventually add to that mix Shaak Ti and Clones....


2 fleets and several Arena viable teams with no Revan, Phoenix or Rebels in sight!

Replies

  • Mucro
    58 posts Member
    When I started over a year ago, I more or less went straight for BHs. While it only barely got me into top 100 in arena, it was a blast anyway. Also got me 7* chewie before anyone else in my shard, which was a killer when he released
  • Kisakee
    406 posts Member
    edited July 1
    You will miss out on so much things if you don't go for Phoenix first. This way never was meant to bring you somewhere with the speed of light but to get every legendary toon at some point. What you describe is way to focused for a beginner and will bring him/her nowhere close to a well built roster, it will only lead to always chasing the meta but never to reach it.

    TL/DR: No.
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • RandomSithLord
    844 posts Member
    edited July 1
    This only works if you already have a main account with a good guild and you manage to a get a new account in there
    No top guild is going to recruit a low GP starter player just because they have geos, especially since you need a full G12 geo squad to even try to succeed with them in TB.
    Focusing on GR fleet on a starter account is also a waste of resources. Again, only top guild will unlock Negotiator relatively soon. A new player, even if they get in a guild that tries Geo TB, will probably not have Negotiator within a year. And that meta will be on its way out by then.
  • Jarvind
    2257 posts Member
    You can't start with a Geo team purely because you can't reach the final stage of cantina battles at the start of the game, and they suck without the Alpha.
  • Tbirds01
    1235 posts Member
    Yeah, the reason Phoenix are great as a beginner squad is not only because they unlock quite a few powerful ships and characters in the game, but that they’re extremely easy to farm.
    Tag me if you reply to my comment so I know I should answer you!😀 My roster: https://swgoh.gg/p/842694912/
  • Kai_Mulai
    683 posts Member
    edited July 5
    Bounty Hunters are a solid secondary team for a beginning player, but by neglecting Phoenix, you delay progress toward Thrawn, Palpatine, R2, CLS, & Yoda. That’s a lot to give up.

    Also, most of the other teams you propose are end-game stand alone teams that are difficult to farm and must be at gear 12-13 with zetas to be usable. Such teams would be incredibly difficult for a new player to obtain and even harder to use properly without considerable spending.
  • YKMisfit
    694 posts Member
    I would still go Phoenix to start because the beginning of the game is really the only place where Phoenix can be used for more than just getting Thrawn. They won't give you the top spot (whales will always buy the meta off the hop), but they'll keep you relevant until you're ready to move on.

    Building a Phoenix team later in the game (like I did) just to get Thrawn is painful even though they're very accessible and easy to farm.
  • YKMisfit
    694 posts Member
    But after Phoneix, I would bite the bullet and start on Revan. I say bite the bullet because the fact that it's mostly hard node farming means you'll be farming them for a while to get them to 7*. But once you have him, you'll be so far ahead of everyone else at your level, it's sickening.
  • YaeVizsla
    2758 posts Member
    Non-Phoenix starts have been viable for a hot minute now. Just rockier and it sucks when you have to double back and build Phoenix anyways to get Palp, Thrawn, and Chimaera.

    But it's mostly not by the means you list, OP. A lot of what you list requires you to reach the end of the table first. GBA is near the end of the cantina table. Same with Talzin and Zombie who make Nightsisters work. Hunters are not really a reliable go to team until you get Bossk and/or Jango. GR isn't really a solid team until Padme who is not a reasonable early game goal. Separatist droids require a very strong fleet and

    Even a lot of the early access teams are available significantly later than Phoenix, to the point where there's little reason to not at least work on them first.

    First Order is the main viable early game alternative.
    Still not a he.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Non-Phoenix starts have been viable for a hot minute now. Just rockier and it sucks when you have to double back and build Phoenix anyways to get Palp, Thrawn, and Chimaera.

    But it's mostly not by the means you list, OP. A lot of what you list requires you to reach the end of the table first. GBA is near the end of the cantina table. Same with Talzin and Zombie who make Nightsisters work. Hunters are not really a reliable go to team until you get Bossk and/or Jango. GR isn't really a solid team until Padme who is not a reasonable early game goal. Separatist droids require a very strong fleet and

    Even a lot of the early access teams are available significantly later than Phoenix, to the point where there's little reason to not at least work on them first.

    First Order is the main viable early game alternative.

    This. There are multiple other options for early game, but the thing you have to consider for early game is farmability. That's why phoenix is #1, because you can show up to arena battles with 3/5 (Ezra, hera, chopper) already unlocked, unlock Kanaan very shortly afterward, and Zeb 2 days after you hit level 40. The main alternative is First Order, since KRU is easily farmable and gives you potential access to a geared and starred ship once you hit level 60 (the main advantage they have over phoenix). You can also start out with Jedi, if you're willing to purchase a bastila pack, by farming Old Ben, Ezra, Kanaan and Ahsoka. With her rework they're probably one of the best early-game teams available, though they don't give you as much for ships as either phoenix or FO. BH would be great, but unless you're willing to fork out big bucks for the fancy pack that comes during the Chewbacca legendary, they're very hard to access in the early game. So for a strictly FTP, I'd probably stick with either Phoenix or FO.
  • The alternative start that does not use fenix has problems. There are several conceptual issues for anyone who wants to do an FTP.

    Geos and Brood Alpha -> Brood Alpha only unlocks level 83.
    GRepublic Jedi -> What is the reason for being limited by the Jedi of the republic? None. Anakin is more complicated access than Bastila and without Padme, so far this team does not work. A purely Jedi plan is more solid and Erza himself and Kanan appear as accessible Jedi.
    Ewoks -> Chirpa only in level 4 cantina and Teebo that the only other leader only in level 40? This team does nothing for their ship development.
    Nightsisters -> Mother Talzin and Zumbi only level 8. The leaderships of Talia and Daka are much more than necessary, in addition to doing nothing for the ships, although it is a team is an irrefutable PVE investment.
    Separatist Droids -> GG is more problematic than the Brood Alpha, since the 3 farm points of it that are separatist event, (requires Jedi or Ewok) Ship Shop (it rarely appears) or Fragment Store (the most inaccessible store for those who are starting out). We're not even talking about the B1 that's in phase 5 of the ships.

    If the person loathes the phoenix to the point of not wanting to start with them ok. Indicate the only initial teams are the First Order or Bounty Hunters (which is the best choice to go after finishing the phoenix), with the warning that even phoenix without zetas can recover health and protection in a consistent way for GW. The first order depends on the KU zetas and the BHs are not available bossk at the beginning.

    Considering the allied loan, being rebels they can receive a number of consistent allied help leaders for nodes 7, 8, and 9 including the CLS, Jyn, Wedge, and AA to make excellent synergies. For the First Order only Phasma or a generic leadership help.

    I do not think people have to be limited to a single thought, but their suggestions seem to ignore the fact that the person starts the game at level 85 and not at level 1.
  • Also, just a consideration for people not starting with Phoenix: They are one of the easier teams to farm VERY early on, and you will end up farming them eventually anyways. That's why I decided to focus on them first, but it is still heavily weighted towards what you want to do in the game. I want to unlock all legendary toons, so Phoenix was the logical starting point for me.
  • The only reason that I wouldn't do Phoenix as my first team would be based on the luck of what you get in that first guaranteed character from your first ever 350 crystal Chromium pack.

    IF, big if, IF, that pack unlocked either Bastila or Zombie then I would consider going with Jedi or NS first.

    Those 2 characters are game changers for a Jedi or NS team respectively even at 2*.

    In the case of Jedi, you convert from Ezra/Hera in Cantina to Ezra/Ben.
    You still farm Kanan but you go Qui-Gon instead of Chopper in Cantina Store.

    For NS you would push for Daka, Asaj, Acolyte, & Initiate to quickly get them up & running.

    But short of those 2 draws, Phoenix all the way to start out.

    Also opening up BH/Scoundrels early for Credit Heists after getting Phoenix open.

    I would start farming JKR characters in LS/DS as soon as those Nodes open because they are VERY long farms.

    First Order makes for an interesting alternative, but lacks the Legendary character access & you can always farm KyloU & Silencer when you hit 50 after Ezra/Hera are at least 5*.

    BB8 (FO) & JKR are the first 2 events I'd push for post CLS completion (R2, Thrawn, Yoda, Palp otw to CLS)
  • CaroCanon
    158 posts Member
    The first pack is no longer a guaranteed unlock.

    I would echo what someone else mentioned, Phoenix are really good for GW because of their healing. I haven’t tried it with baby FO or baby bounty hunters but baby Phoenix is great for GW.
  • CaroCanon wrote: »
    The first pack is no longer a guaranteed unlock.

    When did that change?

    Where is this confirmed?
  • CaroCanon
    158 posts Member
    I tried searching for the announcement but couldn’t find it. It’s well-documented. Also I started an alt the other day and my first pull was 10 Lando shards. I would say it’s been at least a year.
  • Jarvind
    2257 posts Member
    CaroCanon wrote: »
    The first pack is no longer a guaranteed unlock.

    When did that change?

    Where is this confirmed?

    It was a real long time ago. They did it to stop people from repeatedly restarting their account until they pulled a strong character from the free chromium.
  • CaroCanon wrote: »
    The first pack is no longer a guaranteed unlock.

    When did that change?

    Where is this confirmed?

    I believe it changed last summer when they added the light side and dark side only packs of data cards.
  • People have made several posts on this....and I’m well aware of the benefits of Phoenix (I did them first!).
    However it might be very viable to aim at these teams:
    • Geos and Brood Alpha —> Strong early Fleet and with Brood Alpha GA/TW/TB team
    • BHs —> Heists and Fleet
    • GRepublic Jedi —> GMY, Fleet and stronger now
    • Ewoks —> C3PO and zeta mats (Wicket)
    • Nightsisters —> HSTR, Zeta source (MTalzin)
    • Separatist Droids —> Padme

    Eventually add to that mix Shaak Ti and Clones....


    2 fleets and several Arena viable teams with no Revan, Phoenix or Rebels in sight!

    Most of the teams listed have crucial members that are only farmable when your in the 80s or after you hit level 85. BHs is the only exception, but even the best BHs are on high level nodes. Phoenix is a good starting faction to farm because not only do they help get thrawn, Palpatine, R2, CLS, and GMY, but they're easily farmable right off the bat. The only other faction that is nearly as easy to farm at an early stage is First Order.
  • If you want to go the non-Phoenix road, you are targeting essentially Old Republic for Revan, plus the Sith Empire for Darth Revan, as well as Bounty Hunters right after for the various events not just Chewie. And then you can go for a non-Phoenix ship squad (using only Falcon on unlock).

    It is not so much a matter of it being difficult as a matter of it requiring paid play, since you actually have to buy the shards for OR and SE early game. If you can afford that, you will end up with a lean powerful roster which is good.
  • Phoenix are really easy to farm.
    Galactic War is nearly a piece of cake; 50 wins (to auto) are acquired near lv 70.
    They are usefull for Hoth; since they are hard to kill (even though they can't deal a lot of dmg)
    Their Ships are good under Home One.
    And at G9 you unlock Palpatine and Thrawn.
    Then you have to swich to another team more efficient in arena.
  • I feel people are missing the point of this thread.....
    I farmed Phoenix and followed the classical approach.
    I was merely wondering if there’s a solid non-Phoenix route now e.g. FOrder and Jedi
    Followed by BHs and JKR then DR (with nightsisters thrown in there somewhere).
  • It was always possible to start with FO, Nightsisters, or, which probably made the most sense, Jedi. E.g., Qui-Gon lead until Bastila's node is open, Ezra, OB, plus 2. Either that or an Old Republic Jedi squad with Ahsoka, Anakin and Barriss. Later GMY, Bastila and Jolee, plus GK from raids, and eventually JKR, with Padme as a long-term goal.

    There are just three giant problems with any non-Phoenix approach: Thrawn, Chimaera, and Phantom II. Thrawn may be THE highest utility character in the game. People currently use him on JKR, DR, CLS and Padme squads in order to beat Malak. He's a strong raid character and invaluable in GA. As for fleet, guilds need all the capital ships players can get their hands on for TW, and Phantom is a staple on every arena fleet for the faster reinforcement. I really wouldn't want to go it without Phoenix.
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