Guild Store Characters

I know it's been mentioned several different times and in several different ways before, but I feel it bears repeating...

Please get rid of the excess bulk in Guild Store toons! If you're going to make vital characters (e.g. Logray, Dengar, Jyn) farmable only in Guild Store, then at least make farming them actually practical by eliminating characters easily farmable elsewhere (e.g. Kit Fisto, Bariss, Talia) from the rotations.

I get the point, that you guys need to make money / get us to use crystals somewhere, and one of those is in refreshes. But the fact that there are so many toons in the rotations actually dissuades me from spending crystals on refresh, because there's only a 17% chance (or less, I sometimes feel) that the character I want will actually show up.

So I'll make a suggestion that would actually work out better for all of us. Get it down to 2-3 toons per slot, thereby increasing that chance to 33%-50%, and maybe I'll play the refresh game with some reasonable expectation of success. Then you actually make more money, and I actually get a usable store for practical farming. I mean, we're not talking exclusive end game stuff here; just daily playability.

As it is now, Guild Store is an extremely unreliable way to farm, which therefore makes it especially cruel to have any vital characters farmable only in Guild Store. And bottom line: it hurts the game.

Replies

  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    Cruel?
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  • YaeVizsla
    3203 posts Member
    The guild store farms are some of the easier farms in the game so long as you keep some dosh in your back pocket.

    IIRC, the worst slot in there is seven toons. So let's say eight toons to make a nice round number. That's a 1/8 chance of said toon appearing. Average appearance rate is every other day. Total shard income of 2.5 shards per day, without drawing energy away from other farms, though it does cost currency.

    Single hard node farm is 5 attempts a day at about a 1/3 drop rate. 1.67 shards per day.

    Even the guild store farms without an alternate source are more than half again as fast as single hard node farms without spending crystals, without drawing energy from other priorities.

    And given farming these toons from the guild store requires 66 procs, for an average of four months without crystals to a single hard node's six months without crystals, the randomness is spread out over so many instances that it'll average out within a reasonable margin of error. It is a reliable source, so long as you keep that currency in your back pocket for when the shards show up in the store.
    Still not a he.
  • Yes, cruel. As in getting people's hopes up and then pulling the rug out from underneath them. To wit:
    "Oh yay, it's a store farm so all I have to do is get enough of the appropriate currency... Oh, wait... it's still dependent on RNG and will take a lot longer than I originally thought, and possibly longer than I could have ever imagined" (like those who couldn't successfully farm a character to 7* during an entire 90-day legendary event cycle).
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    Yae said it better but mine was more to the point.

    It's not cruel. It's part of the game.
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  • YaeVizsla
    3203 posts Member
    You usually cannot fit a 132 day (on average, using the above conservative assumption) farming cycle into 90 days, no.

    That's not cruelty. That's math.

    That's not them pulling the rug out from under you. That's poor planning and unreasonable expectations on your part.

    The above said?

    The key units in the guild store are Dengar, Logray, Jyn, and Starck.

    Dengar and Logray are important for the Chewie and 3PO events, characters who are unlockable at five stars. That requires 145 shards, which is doable in 58 days on average. Far less than the 90 day legendary cycle.

    Going from zero to seven star legendary in one cycle is generally not a reasonable expectation. A sometimes achievable goal, sure, but not a reasonable expectation by default. You know what is a reasonable expectation? After a zero cycle, you work on that team, get them five or six star the next cycle, and get them seven stars the cycle after that.

    Jyn is needed for a ship and for TB nodes. Pilots are usable at any star rating as long as they're unlocked, with no gating in any mode; you just get stronger. As such, Cassian's U-Wing only needs 80 Jyn shards, unlockable in 32 days. As for the TB nodes, they are... four and seven stars, I believe. The four star node needs 32 days. The seven star node needs substantially more than 132 days because unless you started the farm very late, Jyn is probably not the limiter. You have some pretty limited options, and it is a very hard mission, to the point where even many guilds that max Hoth LSTB do not care about that node; it requires either a strong Chaze or some incredibly strong pilots, on the order of things like G11+ Scarif Rebel Pathfinder, one of the worst units to gear in the game. And Baze, as a single hard node farm, is a longer farm than Jyn unless you spend crystals on node refreshes, which would generally be a waste for Baze at this point.

    And then there's Starck, who pretty much comes as fast as you have cred.

    Pretty much everyone else is a vanity unit (Gamorrean Guard), no longer relevant (Jawa Engineer), decent but unimportant (Yolo), or not quite relevant again yet but available elsewhere (clones).

    The timeframe is reasonable. Plan ahead properly.
    Still not a he.
  • I do understand what you're saying, Yae; but you're not really comparing apples to apples. You're over-simplifying it to shards/day without crystals, whereas it's almost universally true that people spend crystals on important farms.

    So, let's say I want to double my shards farmed from a hard node. Assuming we're on 24/7 as you seem to (that we'll see every store refresh), that would cost only 25 crystals/day. I could even triple it for only 75 crystals/day. Based on your math (which I tentatively agree) that's 5 shards/day at a cost of 75 crystals/day.

    Whereas for a Guild Store farm, let's talk about the 6-toon slots and say you're right that our desired toon appears once per 6 refreshes, and because I'm not a machine and I have to sleep from 11pm-7am, I never see the 1am refresh, so I only get 3 chances per day. Then we're back to your 2.5 shards/day. To double that number and equal the farming output of the hard node, I would have to refresh an additional 3 times per day, at a cost of 50 crystals per refresh means farming Guild Store would get 5 shards/day at a cost of 150 crystals/day.

    Therefore, if I'm really trying to farm a character, say for an upcoming legendary event, it costs twice as much to accelerate that farming to within the available timeframe from the guild store versus a hard node.

    And that's not even addressing the fact that people have consistently reported long timeframes without seeing their desired character in the store. Which is also my current situation where I've caught Logray only three times in the last 2 weeks. This may be anecdotal and just 'bad RNG', but it's something that can't be overcome in Guild Store farming as easily as it could be in node farming, and the long distances between getting any return become all the much more demoralizing.

    And so, in closing, how about you let me have my opinion and make my suggestion and let it rest on its own merits for CG to consider, rather than coming in and trying to tell me I'm wrong? I appreciate your kind consideration.
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    This is a public forum. You are allowed to state your opinion. And others are allowed to disagree with it.
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  • WoodDaversTrain
    9 posts Member
    edited July 1
    I didn't say you don't have the right. But I also have the right to tell you that I think your invalidation of others' input, opinions, and/or frustrations is rude.
  • TVF
    17944 posts Member
    It's part of the game. If you think I'm rude for pointing it out, so be it. Stores rotate stuff. There's bad stuff like 4 dot mods and IG86. I don'[t know why you think CG will change it.
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  • WoodDaversTrain
    9 posts Member
    edited July 1
    I get that stores rotate stuff, but I'm not going to fail to unlock a legendary character because the mod store doesn't offer the 5-dot speed-primary mod I want - firstly, because I have other ways of farming mods, and secondly because that specific mod is not vital.

    And I don't expect them to change it, but I hope they may at least consider it based on exactly what I said in my original post - that a better expectation of successful results may induce more people to spend crystals on refreshes (or at least it would for me specifically; I'm sure they have their own bean counters).
  • WoodDaversTrain
    9 posts Member
    edited July 1
    ZAP wrote: »
    ... I believe he is weighted less than the others that can show in that slot. Just anecdotal obv, but he doesn’t even show up once a week for me ...

    I think maybe that's really the crux of the issue: that the all-or-nothing outcome (with nothing being the more frequent result by far) is demoralizing and frustrating, especially in this case where people may spend crystals on refresh and truly get nothing if their desired character doesn't appear - as opposed to hard nodes where at least I get some gear, credits, mats, etc, and can hit it again within a day and hope/expect to get something. Unfortunately, with a 6-toon slot there's a real possibility (~33% or 1/3) that I could refresh six times (for 300 crystals) and still not have my character show up! That would be incredibly aggravating.

    And it's absolutely a perception thing, but let's say we'd get 10 shards/week either way, it "feels" slower when that comes at 5 shards on two occasions rather than 1-2 shards on many occasions.

    Again, I'm not trying to just "complain"; I'm trying to provide real feedback, and insight or recommendations that hopefully can help improve the game.
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