If Rian Johnson was a SWGOH character...

Replies

  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Luke's arc makes perfect sense. I outlined why earlier in the thread but you ignored it.

    Rey's lineage is not another waste of time. The reveal is that it doesn't matter who her parents her; they don't define her, she defines herself. That's the point. He parents could be the worst villains ever but she is her own person who lives her own life; she doesn't need to worry about her parents and nor should the audience. It doesn't matter.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Luke's arc makes perfect sense. I outlined why earlier in the thread but you ignored it.

    Rey's lineage is not another waste of time. The reveal is that it doesn't matter who her parents her; they don't define her, she defines herself. That's the point. He parents could be the worst villains ever but she is her own person who lives her own life; she doesn't need to worry about her parents and nor should the audience. It doesn't matter.

    Luke spends the whole original trilogy fighting the dark side. Then in one film decides to stop caring. It absolutely does not make sense despite your earlier comments. Luke would never, just stop caring and wander off.

    Rey’s lineage is a waste of time. You’ve just proved my point “she doesn’t need to worry about it and nor should the audience. It doesn’t matter”

    Then why for the love of god is about 30mins of the film dedicated to this boring pointless non-reveal. Time which we could have spent:
    - having an actual lightsaber duel
    - Explaining where the FO came from
    - Exploring Snoke and the Knights of Ren

    This is Star Wars not a new age self-help book. What’s Rey going to discover in episode 9, that she’s a strong independent woman? Learning mindfulness?
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Luke spends the whole original trilogy fighting the dark side. Then in one film decides to stop caring. It absolutely does not make sense despite your earlier comments. Luke would never, just stop caring and wander off.

    I don't want to be rude but if you honestly think Luke "stops caring" then you have completely missed the point.
    Luke NEVER stops caring.
    But he can't face his failure. He is ashamed of that momentary lack of control he showed when confronted by Kylo Ren's darkness. If he "stopped caring" then he would have killed Kylo there and then. But he cares about Kylo the same way he cared about Vader. He tried to save Vader, not kill him. But now he is confronted by being unable to save Kylo. He doesn't want to hurt him. And, ultimately, he doesn't. And he still wins.

    Rey’s lineage is a waste of time. You’ve just proved my point “she doesn’t need to worry about it and nor should the audience. It doesn’t matter”

    Then why for the love of god is about 30mins of the film dedicated to this boring pointless non-reveal.

    It's not a "pointless non-reveal", it's character growth. She starts the first film desperately waiting for her parents to come back and to discover who they are.
    She then grows as a character in the second film and realises that it doesn't matter who they are. She is her own woman. She is not defined by her parents.
    This isn't "a waste of time". This is the character learning and growing and changing.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Luke spends the whole original trilogy fighting the dark side. Then in one film decides to stop caring. It absolutely does not make sense despite your earlier comments. Luke would never, just stop caring and wander off.

    I don't want to be rude but if you honestly think Luke "stops caring" then you have completely missed the point.
    Luke NEVER stops caring.
    But he can't face his failure. He is ashamed of that momentary lack of control he showed when confronted by Kylo Ren's darkness. If he "stopped caring" then he would have killed Kylo there and then. But he cares about Kylo the same way he cared about Vader. He tried to save Vader, not kill him. But now he is confronted by being unable to save Kylo. He doesn't want to hurt him. And, ultimately, he doesn't. And he still wins.

    Rey’s lineage is a waste of time. You’ve just proved my point “she doesn’t need to worry about it and nor should the audience. It doesn’t matter”

    Then why for the love of god is about 30mins of the film dedicated to this boring pointless non-reveal.

    It's not a "pointless non-reveal", it's character growth. She starts the first film desperately waiting for her parents to come back and to discover who they are.
    She then grows as a character in the second film and realises that it doesn't matter who they are. She is her own woman. She is not defined by her parents.
    This isn't "a waste of time". This is the character learning and growing and changing.

    Kind of like Luke’s failure in Empire leading to his best friend being frozen and captured. Then I’m return of the Jedi he went off to an island to sulk for years... oh wait.

    Rey’s character can learn and grow without tedious and unnecessary exposition.

    Agree to disagree but the last Jedi is utter bantha poodoo.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Kind of like Luke’s failure in Empire leading to his best friend being frozen and captured. Then I’m return of the Jedi he went off to an island to sulk for years... oh wait.
    Luke infiltrated Jabba's Palace to try and get Han out stealthily. The path of peace. It failed.
    He (and Han) then tried bribing Jabba. The path of peace. It failed.
    He then, finally, tried threatening Jabba. A path of peace from a certain point of view. It failed.
    Violence was Plan D.
    See my earlier post about Luke's attempts at peace at the end of Return Of The Jedi and into The Last Jedi.
    Since his extreme failure at the end of Empire, Luke has tried to be a pacifist.
    He always tries the path of peace and he was ashamed about his momentary lack of control when he saw Kylo's darkness. He ran from his failure; in his eyes, he just made things worse. It took Yoda and Rey to convince him otherwise.
    Rey’s character can learn and grow without tedious and unnecessary exposition.
    I didn't find it tedious or unnecessary any more than Luke's experience in the Dark Side cave on Dagobah. It was mystic and cryptic and impacts on the character concerned.

    Agree to disagree but the last Jedi is utter bantha poodoo.

    No it isn't. It just doesn't fit in with what you have convinced yourself it had to be and therefore you can't accept it for what it is.

  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    Luke doesn’t defeat the dark side by destroying it; he defeats it by refusing to destroy it. He never really fights the dark side, only when he loses control.

    That being said, Luke has considerably less control in TLJ than in ROTJ. He’s angry and frankly quite a mess. It doesn’t matter if he failed with Kylo, Luke would never allow himself to become so angry with someone like Rey. TLJ Luke reminds me of Mace Windu, which was not the path he was headed for.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    He's not angry at Rey. He's angry at himself and misdirects it - partly in an attempt to get her to go away.
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    But even when he failed at Bespin he found his control in ROTJ. I’m sure he was angry then, at Ben for hiding secrets, at Vader for being his father, at himself for losing Han, and yet he handles everything very well.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    But even when he failed at Bespin he found his control in ROTJ. I’m sure he was angry then, at Ben for hiding secrets, at Vader for being his father, at himself for losing Han, and yet he handles everything very well.

    But what is it every time that provokes his loss of control / reason? It's a threat to his friends and family. He leaves Dagobah despite Yoda's warnings because Han and the others are in danger. He loses control in the Throne Room twice, both times when his friends are threatened. What brings his control back? When his own father is in danger - this time from Luke's own doing!
    And then he tries to talk to Ben and sees Kylo and reacts in the moment YET AGAIN. He has failed yet again. He is angry in TLJ not just because of the loss of control but because he keeps making the same mistake and this time the results are far worse.
    He could rescue Han from Jabba. He pushed Ben to Snoke. There is a big difference.
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    But even when he failed at Bespin he found his control in ROTJ. I’m sure he was angry then, at Ben for hiding secrets, at Vader for being his father, at himself for losing Han, and yet he handles everything very well.

    But what is it every time that provokes his loss of control / reason? It's a threat to his friends and family. He leaves Dagobah despite Yoda's warnings because Han and the others are in danger. He loses control in the Throne Room twice, both times when his friends are threatened. What brings his control back? When his own father is in danger - this time from Luke's own doing!
    And then he tries to talk to Ben and sees Kylo and reacts in the moment YET AGAIN. He has failed yet again. He is angry in TLJ not just because of the loss of control but because he keeps making the same mistake and this time the results are far worse.
    He could rescue Han from Jabba. He pushed Ben to Snoke. There is a big difference.

    So instead of facing his mistakes, our gallant hero, Luke Skywalker, the proud crowd pleaser for generations, hides on an island and ignores even his family and friends when they need his help. Can you maybe see why a lot of people are upset with that?
  • I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    It’s only one issue. There are so many others:

    - Leia’s Mary Poppins impression
    - the slowest car chase in cinematic history as a central plot device
    - the whole Casino tangent that doesn’t matter
    - No exploration of Snoke, Kylo or the Knights of Ren or the First Order

    These are all far worse crimes.

    For those that like it that’s cool. We can agree to disagree.

    I however will always hate it TLJ
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    So instead of facing his mistakes, our gallant hero, Luke Skywalker, the proud crowd pleaser for generations, hides on an island and ignores even his family and friends when they need his help. Can you maybe see why a lot of people are upset with that?

    A certain point of view ...

    Even "our gallant hero, Luke Skywalker, the proud crowd pleaser for generations" can make mistakes and that's OK. Nobody can be perfect all the time. Even Luke makes mistakes and has a hard time facing them and himself. But in the end, he does. He pushes through and does the brave thing.

    But bravery is in overcoming fear; it's not never experiencing fear in the first place.

    Luke is brave because he is afraid and ashamed and in the end he does the right thing regardless of it all.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    ROTJ Luke and TLJ Luke fit perfectly and I've gone to great lengths to explain why. You have at no point replied to my arguments. It makes you look like you have made a mistake and are running from it rather than deal with it straight up. Like Luke ... *lol*
  • Stenun wrote: »
    I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    ROTJ Luke and TLJ Luke fit perfectly and I've gone to great lengths to explain why. You have at no point replied to my arguments. It makes you look like you have made a mistake and are running from it rather than deal with it straight up. Like Luke ... *lol*

    To be clear I don’t care whether you agree with me or not. If you like TLJ that’s fine, there are plenty who do and plenty who don’t.

    I don’t like it. One of the reasons I don’t is that Luke’s arc does not make sense. He goes from hero, who makes mistakes but will continue to do the right thing, to hermit Luke who runs off to live on an island abandoning his family.

    Luke consistently shows family and friends mean everything to him. Therefore would not just run off (presumably for decades) and abandon his loved ones at a time of crisis.

    That, is why it doesn’t fit.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    ROTJ Luke and TLJ Luke fit perfectly and I've gone to great lengths to explain why. You have at no point replied to my arguments. It makes you look like you have made a mistake and are running from it rather than deal with it straight up. Like Luke ... *lol*

    To be clear I don’t care whether you agree with me or not. If you like TLJ that’s fine, there are plenty who do and plenty who don’t.

    I don’t like it. One of the reasons I don’t is that Luke’s arc does not make sense. He goes from hero, who makes mistakes but will continue to do the right thing, to hermit Luke who runs off to live on an island abandoning his family.

    Luke consistently shows family and friends mean everything to him. Therefore would not just run off (presumably for decades) and abandon his loved ones at a time of crisis.

    That, is why it doesn’t fit.

    Yeah, it's not like Jedi to run off and hide after failure, is it?
    Yoda had a very active social life on Dagobah.
  • Javick_Starage
    303 posts Member
    edited August 10
    Stenun wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    ROTJ Luke and TLJ Luke fit perfectly and I've gone to great lengths to explain why. You have at no point replied to my arguments. It makes you look like you have made a mistake and are running from it rather than deal with it straight up. Like Luke ... *lol*

    To be clear I don’t care whether you agree with me or not. If you like TLJ that’s fine, there are plenty who do and plenty who don’t.

    I don’t like it. One of the reasons I don’t is that Luke’s arc does not make sense. He goes from hero, who makes mistakes but will continue to do the right thing, to hermit Luke who runs off to live on an island abandoning his family.

    Luke consistently shows family and friends mean everything to him. Therefore would not just run off (presumably for decades) and abandon his loved ones at a time of crisis.

    That, is why it doesn’t fit.

    Yeah, it's not like Jedi to run off and hide after failure, is it?
    Yoda had a very active social life on Dagobah.

    Yoda is not Luke. Different argument.

    Plus Yoda was in hiding after the Jedi were completely wiped out.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    ROTJ Luke and TLJ Luke fit perfectly and I've gone to great lengths to explain why. You have at no point replied to my arguments. It makes you look like you have made a mistake and are running from it rather than deal with it straight up. Like Luke ... *lol*

    To be clear I don’t care whether you agree with me or not. If you like TLJ that’s fine, there are plenty who do and plenty who don’t.

    I don’t like it. One of the reasons I don’t is that Luke’s arc does not make sense. He goes from hero, who makes mistakes but will continue to do the right thing, to hermit Luke who runs off to live on an island abandoning his family.

    Luke consistently shows family and friends mean everything to him. Therefore would not just run off (presumably for decades) and abandon his loved ones at a time of crisis.

    That, is why it doesn’t fit.

    Yeah, it's not like Jedi to run off and hide after failure, is it?
    Yoda had a very active social life on Dagobah.

    Yoda is not Luke. Different argument.

    Luke is a Jedi who had two Jedi mentors who both ran away. Where do you think he got the impulse from?
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I just can’t square away TLJ Luke with ROTJ Luke. It doesn’t fit.

    ROTJ Luke and TLJ Luke fit perfectly and I've gone to great lengths to explain why. You have at no point replied to my arguments. It makes you look like you have made a mistake and are running from it rather than deal with it straight up. Like Luke ... *lol*

    To be clear I don’t care whether you agree with me or not. If you like TLJ that’s fine, there are plenty who do and plenty who don’t.

    I don’t like it. One of the reasons I don’t is that Luke’s arc does not make sense. He goes from hero, who makes mistakes but will continue to do the right thing, to hermit Luke who runs off to live on an island abandoning his family.

    Luke consistently shows family and friends mean everything to him. Therefore would not just run off (presumably for decades) and abandon his loved ones at a time of crisis.

    That, is why it doesn’t fit.

    Yeah, it's not like Jedi to run off and hide after failure, is it?
    Yoda had a very active social life on Dagobah.

    Yoda is not Luke. Different argument.

    Luke is a Jedi who had two Jedi mentors who both ran away. Where do you think he got the impulse from?

    Because Luke is a different character. Luke is not Yoda. Luke is Luke.
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    edited August 10
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    I never read the books. I just knew that I was ultimately disappointed in Luke after watching TLJ, and I wasn’t sure why.
  • Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    This guy gets it
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    I did answer your question. I said it depends how you look at it. Scroll up
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Because Luke is a different character. Luke is not Yoda. Luke is Luke.

    Characters do not exist in isolation. They interact and affect each other.
    Luke learned many things from Yoda including, it would appear, a lesson you don't want him to learn of running away.
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    I did answer your question. I said it depends how you look at it. Scroll up

    No, you gave another point of view and then decided that your point of view was correct.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    I did answer your question. I said it depends how you look at it. Scroll up

    No, you gave another point of view and then decided that your point of view was correct.

    Would you not agree that "my point of view" is that shared by the film makers? Otherwise they wouldn't have made the film in the way they did. They did what they thought was correct and I agree with them.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Because Luke is a different character. Luke is not Yoda. Luke is Luke.

    Characters do not exist in isolation. They interact and affect each other.
    Luke learned many things from Yoda including, it would appear, a lesson you don't want him to learn of running away.

    And that would be valid if that was ever cited as a reason for his running away and giving his family the middle finger.

    It’s not. He just quotes some nonsense about being ashamed etc.

    TLJ dumps all over Luke’s legacy.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    I did answer your question. I said it depends how you look at it. Scroll up

    No, you gave another point of view and then decided that your point of view was correct.

    Would you not agree that "my point of view" is that shared by the film makers? Otherwise they wouldn't have made the film in the way they did. They did what they thought was correct and I agree with them.

    That’s the whole argument. We think the filmmakers are wrong.

    Evidently so does Mark Hamil.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    Because Luke is a different character. Luke is not Yoda. Luke is Luke.

    Characters do not exist in isolation. They interact and affect each other.
    Luke learned many things from Yoda including, it would appear, a lesson you don't want him to learn of running away.

    And that would be valid if that was ever cited as a reason for his running away and giving his family the middle finger.

    It’s not. He just quotes some nonsense about being ashamed etc.

    TLJ dumps all over Luke’s legacy.

    Are you really saying you want everything spelled out and can't make the cognitive leap for yourself?
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    You never answered my question. Can you see how a Luke that ignores his friends and family for a great while may upset fans both casual and very invested?

    I did answer your question. I said it depends how you look at it. Scroll up

    No, you gave another point of view and then decided that your point of view was correct.

    Would you not agree that "my point of view" is that shared by the film makers? Otherwise they wouldn't have made the film in the way they did. They did what they thought was correct and I agree with them.

    That might have been the view of the film makers. It makes sense. But that’s not what the majority of the audience sees. Remember, the film makers also decided that Jar Jar was good for comic relief. A misinterpretation of how your audience may take a new direction can ruin a franchise. And I’m still confused on why Luke totally ignores his family. You said hearing if his family in peril drove him to gain control and protect them. So why did he ignore Leia for so long?
  • Stenun wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    Because Luke is a different character. Luke is not Yoda. Luke is Luke.

    Characters do not exist in isolation. They interact and affect each other.
    Luke learned many things from Yoda including, it would appear, a lesson you don't want him to learn of running away.

    And that would be valid if that was ever cited as a reason for his running away and giving his family the middle finger.

    It’s not. He just quotes some nonsense about being ashamed etc.

    TLJ dumps all over Luke’s legacy.

    Are you really saying you want everything spelled out and can't make the cognitive leap for yourself?

    A character does x, therefore another character should do it too.

    Brilliant argument.
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