If Rian Johnson was a SWGOH character...

Replies

  • Stenun wrote: »
    The only one I agree with you on is the Mind Trick. It was a fun scene but a little unusual that she mastered it so quickly. Every other example I think is grasping at straws.
    For example, flying the Falcon. There is a rule in storytelling of "show, don't tell"; don't tell us Rey is a good pilot, show us. And that's exactly what they do. They show us Rey is a good pilot.
    For example, beating Kylo Ren in lightsaber combat. As I keep saying, Kylo Ren is so badly injured that he can't muster a simple Force Pull - let alone fight at his full potential.
    All of it, other than the Mind Trick, to me smacks extremely heavily of "we need to attack this character, let's look for reasons to do so".

    Even if they just removed the mind trick, it would go a long way to making it more believable. Though with the piloting, a little bit of background is needed as well. After all the movie shows she has been stuck on Jakuu since being a little girl. And there is no indication that she had any opportunity to practice flying. In fact, it seems to indicate that she has been stuck on jakuu with no chance to learn piloting. And I know that the force seems to help in piloting but at this point she doesn't even know what the force was and had absolutely no training. So while she woukd have faster reflexes, it is a stretch to have her doing han solo level maneuvers the first time she gets in a ship.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    The only one I agree with you on is the Mind Trick. It was a fun scene but a little unusual that she mastered it so quickly. Every other example I think is grasping at straws.
    For example, flying the Falcon. There is a rule in storytelling of "show, don't tell"; don't tell us Rey is a good pilot, show us. And that's exactly what they do. They show us Rey is a good pilot.
    For example, beating Kylo Ren in lightsaber combat. As I keep saying, Kylo Ren is so badly injured that he can't muster a simple Force Pull - let alone fight at his full potential.
    All of it, other than the Mind Trick, to me smacks extremely heavily of "we need to attack this character, let's look for reasons to do so".

    Ok so as I stated before it is the cumulative effect tgat makes it worse. If Like had used the mind trick to get past the stormtroopers, had the expertise to disable the tractor beam and rescue leia on his own with no help needed, and fought vader and won (even if chewie had gotten a lucky shot and injured vader), and blown up the death star your arguement that I'm only criticizing the writing of Rey's character and no Luke's would be warranted. But there is far less suspension of disbelief required in Luke's story than in Rey's story.

    And in ep 9 this won't be too much of an issue. With a time skip and time to study the jedi texts and get guidance off screen from jedi ghosts, any feats she does in ep 9 will be in the realm of possibility given her raw force ability. The problem I have is lack of reason for a skill not her gender.
  • ZAP
    475 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ... forced feminist agenda ...
    Well you've revealed your true colours. Well done.

    I believe it and have seen plenty of proof on the matter.

    People have real complaints and dislikes with ep8, the writing, the acting and the production choices made.

    Rogue One wasn’t a perfect movie either, but you don’t see as much backlash against Jyn and that movie as you do with Rey and ep8.

    I liked Jyn and genuinely enjoyed most everything about Rogue One, the writing, cinematography, acting, etc...

    However I am not a fan of a lot of ep8 and Reys character.

    While clearly Kennedy and a lot of people involved in decision making were pushing a pro female agenda, which is not bad in itself, just think the execution of it could have been much better, I and probably most who thought Reys character and ep8 as a whole could have been better are certainly not pushing an anti female agenda.

    Your claim of sexism in regards to Rey and Luke are unfounded in fact or reality.

  • ZAP wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ... forced feminist agenda ...
    Well you've revealed your true colours. Well done.

    I believe it and have seen plenty of proof on the matter.

    People have real complaints and dislikes with ep8, the writing, the acting and the production choices made.

    Rogue One wasn’t a perfect movie either, but you don’t see as much backlash against Jyn and that movie as you do with Rey and ep8.

    I liked Jyn and genuinely enjoyed most everything about Rogue One, the writing, cinematography, acting, etc...

    However I am not a fan of a lot of ep8 and Reys character.

    While clearly Kennedy and a lot of people involved in decision making were pushing a pro female agenda, which is not bad in itself, just think the execution of it could have been much better, I and probably most who thought Reys character and ep8 as a whole could have been better are certainly not pushing an anti female agenda.

    Your claim of sexism in regards to Rey and Luke are unfounded in fact or reality.

    Well put. I hate it when people paint anyone that criticizes anything about the new trilogy as sexist.

    I think we can all have our opinions without calling names. I am ok with some people liking the sequel trilogy but I just don't like them all that much. I have tried to articulate the reasons as have others.

    Some people don't like the prequels and site the bad acting in ep 2 as a reason. That personally doesn't bother me much but they are entitled to their opinion.

    A lot of fans didn't like jar jar. The actor that played him was black. Were they all racist or did jar jar just add nothing to the movie and that was what they didn't like. I personally think it was the second for most people.
  • Stenun
    506 posts Member
    While I accept DarkHelmet1138 has criticisms beyond a sexist agenda, the reason it is hard to be sure at first is because of people like ZAP who is clearly basing his arguments in sexism.
    "[F]orced Feminist Agenda"? Why should the male and female characters be regarded equally? I mean, seriously?? Mate, you need to have a long hard look at your wording in this thread and if you see nothing wrong with it then you need to have a long hard look at yourself.
  • Stenun
    506 posts Member
    Not going to bother returning to this thread anymore.
  • ZAP
    475 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    While I accept DarkHelmet1138 has criticisms beyond a sexist agenda, the reason it is hard to be sure at first is because of people like ZAP who is clearly basing his arguments in sexism.
    "[F]orced Feminist Agenda"? Why should the male and female characters be regarded equally? I mean, seriously?? Mate, you need to have a long hard look at your wording in this thread and if you see nothing wrong with it then you need to have a long hard look at yourself.

    Maybe you saw some buzzwords and aren’t actually understanding what I’m saying?

    Kennedy and others involved with Disney and Lucas Films straight up said they wanted to and then implemented having more female roles in the SW movies than the first six.

    It absolutely was and is an agenda, highly planned and executed in ep7, Rogue One, Solo, ep8, even Rebels and Clone Wars.

    I for one was and still am completely on board with that agenda. Gender balance in the first 6 movies was completely out of whack. I want and can’t wait to have more good female roles in the movies to come.

    The issue is that I believe there were some failures in those new characters, storylines and acting and it has absolutely nothing to do with their gender.

    Not to mention the fact that a lot of criticism of Some of the chars had nothing to do with Rey or rose or holdo themselves, but male writers and Directors.
  • Nihion
    2198 posts Member
    I didn’t like TLJ, that’s just what I thought of it, and I have every right to dislike it. I understand that it’s probably good from a thematic standpoint, but it just didn’t sit well with me.

    That being said, I don’t think we should search for reasons to make it look bad. It’s still a good film. I don’t understand why people that don’t like it are acting like it’s the worst thing in the world or that it needs to be changed because that doesn’t make any sense. It’s a fictional story. You have every right to dislike it, but unless you are creating this universe, why try to ruin it for everyone else? Why try to convince people that they are not allowed to like it? I’m sure there are a lot of people who like Rey better than Luke, and that’s okay! They have that right too. This is why I sympathize more with those defending the movie in this thread than those trying to sabotage it.

    I didn’t like TLJ very much. The only true power I should have to change this franchise is by becoming a director and making the next movie.
  • ZAP
    475 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    I didn’t like TLJ, that’s just what I thought of it, and I have every right to dislike it. I understand that it’s probably good from a thematic standpoint, but it just didn’t sit well with me.

    That being said, I don’t think we should search for reasons to make it look bad. It’s still a good film. I don’t understand why people that don’t like it are acting like it’s the worst thing in the world or that it needs to be changed because that doesn’t make any sense. It’s a fictional story. You have every right to dislike it, but unless you are creating this universe, why try to ruin it for everyone else? Why try to convince people that they are not allowed to like it? I’m sure there are a lot of people who like Rey better than Luke, and that’s okay! They have that right too. This is why I sympathize more with those defending the movie in this thread than those trying to sabotage it.

    I didn’t like TLJ very much. The only true power I should have to change this franchise is by becoming a director and making the next movie.

    People in this thread are trying to sabotage TLJ?

    I’d say several people had a hand in sabotaging it and it certainly wasn’t anyone in this thread.

    I wanted to like it, but just don’t. I want the SW franchise to succeed and keep delivering good entertainment.

    Bottom line is I won’t buy the dvd and I won’t go see it again in the theater. I’m not gonna be guilt tripped into liking it and I’m glad plenty of enough people did enjoy it that they will make more films. I also think the powers that be at Disney and Lucas Films have taken into account some flaws with Solo and ep8 and have been taking corrective action.

    I have hope that future films and shows will be better.

  • Nihion
    2198 posts Member
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?
  • ZAP
    475 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

  • Nihion
    2198 posts Member
    ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

    I wasn’t talking to you directly, but here we go I guess.

    I never said that only people who like the movie can voice their opinion. I said that I sympathize more with the people defending the movie here because they are not on the offensive. There are some here that are attacking the movie; people like @Stenun are only defending the movie, not attacking people for not liking it. It would be like if I hated Spider Man into the spider verse, which is a movie that received very enthusiastic reviews and found a good wide audience that really like the movie, and then tried to break it down by saying how terrible it is and that it ruined Spider Man for me. That comes across as if you enjoyed the movie, you’re wrong. You have every right to dislike the movie; but why try to break it apart?

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you actually attacked the movie, but if you did, just think about that.
  • ZAP
    475 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

    I wasn’t talking to you directly, but here we go I guess.

    I never said that only people who like the movie can voice their opinion. I said that I sympathize more with the people defending the movie here because they are not on the offensive. There are some here that are attacking the movie; people like @Stenun are only defending the movie, not attacking people for not liking it. It would be like if I hated Spider Man into the spider verse, which is a movie that received very enthusiastic reviews and found a good wide audience that really like the movie, and then tried to break it down by saying how terrible it is and that it ruined Spider Man for me. That comes across as if you enjoyed the movie, you’re wrong. You have every right to dislike the movie; but why try to break it apart?

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you actually attacked the movie, but if you did, just think about that.

    I definitely didn’t attack the movie. I’m not a huge fan of Rey or ep8 for many reasons.

    My only point in this thread was that I can dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the earlier films and that absolutely does not make me sexist.

    It was the sexist garbage that brought me out to post my opinion. I’ve never posted anywhere my dislike for ep8 until now. I've never felt the need to say anything about it until I read some ridiculous things in this thread.

  • If you disagree with me you are either sexist, rascist a nationalist or communist because every thing I say is the absolute truth and cannot be questioned.
  • So in in respect of that statement -
    The sequels are terrible stories and there are countless better plots that they could have come up with.
    The movies are only given the time of day because they have star wars in the title.
  • ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

    I wasn’t talking to you directly, but here we go I guess.

    I never said that only people who like the movie can voice their opinion. I said that I sympathize more with the people defending the movie here because they are not on the offensive. There are some here that are attacking the movie; people like @Stenun are only defending the movie, not attacking people for not liking it. It would be like if I hated Spider Man into the spider verse, which is a movie that received very enthusiastic reviews and found a good wide audience that really like the movie, and then tried to break it down by saying how terrible it is and that it ruined Spider Man for me. That comes across as if you enjoyed the movie, you’re wrong. You have every right to dislike the movie; but why try to break it apart?

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you actually attacked the movie, but if you did, just think about that.

    I definitely didn’t attack the movie. I’m not a huge fan of Rey or ep8 for many reasons.

    My only point in this thread was that I can dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the earlier films and that absolutely does not make me sexist.

    It was the sexist garbage that brought me out to post my opinion. I’ve never posted anywhere my dislike for ep8 until now. I've never felt the need to say anything about it until I read some ridiculous things in this thread.

    Yeah I also tire of the sexist label given to anyone that may not like aspects of how Rey's character was written.

    The first rule of debating is that if you have to resort to name calling, you have no better argument.

    I also think that critizing a bad movie is not only allowable but serves a purpose. If everyone that hated the last jedi were silient or silienced, then Disney may continue to make bad movies with no overall plan. But if people call them out on aspects that are horrible or just aspects that need improvement, then they can take that criticism and hopefully make ep 9 a better movie.

    I personally have my doubts that they will but we'll have to see. I really don't trust JJ Abrams and more than Rian Johnson but who knows maybe they had someone come in and help with the storytelling aspect that is better at it. If they have a good writer, it may turn out ok. After all most of my complaints with the last jedi are writing issues not directing ones. The one that I would call a directing error would be the mary poppins leia scene. I have no problem with leia having that ability. She's strong in the force, enough time has passed that she had plenty of time to have learned to use the force. So as I said, no issue there. The issue is it looks ridiculous and adds nothing to the movie. So it probably should have been cut.

    So the biggest problem is they let their directors write what ever they want instead of having a group if writers that make sure everything fits together.

    I've heard that George Lucas was brought in to consult a lot for ep 9 so that may be a sign they learned their lesson. Though there's not much to do to fix ep 8 in the minds of many other than to make it all a dream.
  • Nihion
    2198 posts Member
    They just need to plan like Marvel.
  • Nihion wrote: »
    They just need to plan like Marvel.

    Agreed lack of planing seems to be their biggest issue.
  • kalidor
    1742 posts Member
    He also needs an Overhype ability:
    For 2 turns, all allies gain defense down. Once that expires, they become enemies and gain undispellable retribution and offense up for the rest of the battle.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • This thread has better content than all of the Star Wars movies... I wonder though, has any of it made any difference whatsoever? Anybody have a totally different outlook on the movies afterwards? If not, then this whole thing was for nothing...
  • I just love the irony of human beings. It was actually J.J. Abrahams whose badly written characters and story arc ruined the EU. At that time people complained about ep.VII only being a copy of ep.IV . Then Rian Johnson added his own part to it, but working with those already developed characters. Now it seems people expect that anything better would come out with Abrahams in charge again... just ironic. >:)
  • CCyrilS
    3070 posts Member
    CadoaBane wrote: »
    I just love the irony of human beings. It was actually J.J. Abrahams whose badly written characters and story arc ruined the EU. At that time people complained about ep.VII only being a copy of ep.IV . Then Rian Johnson added his own part to it, but working with those already developed characters. Now it seems people expect that anything better would come out with Abrahams in charge again... just ironic. >:)

    I think the biggest problem is switching back and forth. I thought ep7 was okay, but then ep8 goes nowhere, and now it's going to be difficult to have 9 make any sense.

    Maybe they should make an ep8.2 first and tell us to forget what we saw in ep8. I'd be ok with that lol
  • Nihion
    2198 posts Member
    CadoaBane wrote: »
    I just love the irony of human beings. It was actually J.J. Abrahams whose badly written characters and story arc ruined the EU. At that time people complained about ep.VII only being a copy of ep.IV . Then Rian Johnson added his own part to it, but working with those already developed characters. Now it seems people expect that anything better would come out with Abrahams in charge again... just ironic. >:)

    That may be true, but it’s also Rians bad call when he tried to change up the tone of the trilogy.

    Abrams started the trilogy off with pure fan service. That movie was 100% meant to satisfy fans of the OT, and it was supposed to cover up the disturbances that came with the prequels. Did it work? Probably not. But it doesn’t matter, because then Johnson makes a critically impressive movie, but totally flips the trilogy into this, “end the past”, “end the fan service” thing that doesn’t exactly fit together smoothly.

    I watched the new TROS trailer-like video from D23, and the 3 trilogies look like completely separate things. First comes the mythical, satisfying OT, then the sleek, vast PT, and finally the awkward modern ST. The big problem right now is that nothing fits together, especially with the lack of prequel importance displayed in the trailer. They are definitely trying to cover up their existence, and that’s not going to work. If your franchise has a mistake, own it.
  • CCyrilS
    3070 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    CadoaBane wrote: »
    I just love the irony of human beings. It was actually J.J. Abrahams whose badly written characters and story arc ruined the EU. At that time people complained about ep.VII only being a copy of ep.IV . Then Rian Johnson added his own part to it, but working with those already developed characters. Now it seems people expect that anything better would come out with Abrahams in charge again... just ironic. >:)

    That may be true, but it’s also Rians bad call when he tried to change up the tone of the trilogy.

    Abrams started the trilogy off with pure fan service. That movie was 100% meant to satisfy fans of the OT, and it was supposed to cover up the disturbances that came with the prequels. Did it work? Probably not. But it doesn’t matter, because then Johnson makes a critically impressive movie, but totally flips the trilogy into this, “end the past”, “end the fan service” thing that doesn’t exactly fit together smoothly.

    I watched the new TROS trailer-like video from D23, and the 3 trilogies look like completely separate things. First comes the mythical, satisfying OT, then the sleek, vast PT, and finally the awkward modern ST. The big problem right now is that nothing fits together, especially with the lack of prequel importance displayed in the trailer. They are definitely trying to cover up their existence, and that’s not going to work. If your franchise has a mistake, own it.

    Yeah, about them fitting together. It's like when you think of a certain scene from either of the first 2 trilogies sometimes you have to think for a minute to remeber exactly which one it was... they have continuity making them almost like one long movie each.

    With any scene from the last two movies it's easy to identify because they're that different. They don't feel the same.
  • I don't know if they can exactly own the failure of TLJ. It feels so out of place and a complete 180.
    Personally, it does make the FA seem better. But I think my issue with FA has to do with characters just showing up and no real backstory. I've been thinking about it and I think that FA is more like the middle film in a trilogy, not the starting film. I get Disney has and will make a ton of money from books and TV series, etc, so the back story is provided there. Just doesn't feel as authentic that way.
  • Boo
    3454 posts Member
    He would be a tank with no other abilities other than taunt - so you can keep hitting him over and over again.
  • Boo
    3454 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    The force awakens was ok (a new hope 2). The last Jedi was garbage

    I see you call TFA "A New Hope 2". You're not one of those people who complained that TFA was too similar to what had gone before and then later complained that TLJ was too different to what had gone before, are you?
    Because that was just silly, wasn't it? "Give us something different! ... Argh, that's different!"
    Nah, you're not one of those. :smile:
    I mean, those people who complained like that were basically saying that they would only "like" a new Star Wars movie if it fit in exactly with what they wanted it to be after more than a decade of deciding for themselves what it had to be - no deviation allowed. These preconceived rigid lines must be followed and anything else means the film is bad.
    But no, you're not one of those. :smile:

    No, I’m not. As I say, I liked the force awakens. It was a little by the numbers but took some risks which were executed very well (killing Han)

    The last Jedi makes absolutely no sense as a film. I have no problem with it being different. I do have a problem with it being 💩.

    The Casino literally doesn’t matter and wastes about an hour. Nothing interesting happens at the casino either.

    The central plot theme revolves around running out of petrol. The First Order could have called reinforcements to attack from the other side rather than following at a snails pace for hours.

    Leia flying around in space is cringeworthy. Even if you believe it makes sense from a story perspective (I don’t) it was horrifically executed.

    Luke’s arc makes no sense:
    - Your nephew is turning to the dark side!
    - Cool, I’m gonna go live on an island and milk aliens. Screw him.
    ”I disagree with pretty much every decision you have made for this character” Mark Hamil to Rian, during filming.

    Rey’s lineage, another waste of time. The whole thing in the cave with the finger clicking, more time wasted.

    It’s not just a terrible Star Wars film. It is the worst film I have seen in years.

    I couldn't agree more.
  • Boo
    3454 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    I don't know if the following is true. I certainly can't prove it and have little more than anecdotal evidence for it. But it is a conclusion I have reached based on personal observation ...

    Simply put, the people most upset over the portrayal of Luke in TLJ are those who read the Expanded Universe novels starting with Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy and culminating in a new Jedi order lead by Luke. That was the Luke that they wanted to see onscreen and got it into their heads that that was the "real Luke", the "true Like". So when TLJ came out and had a completely different take on Luke post-ROTJ, they couldn't accept it. It wasn't the Perfect Hero of the novels. It wasn't what they wanted Luke to be.
    But for those who never read the novels, or those like me who gave up on them after a while because they didn't like them, it's much easier to see TLJ Luke as being Luke because it does fit in with all his on-screen representations in the past.
    It just doesn't fit with his in-print portrayals.

    Wrong - I didn't like much of the EU novels.

    Why people (especially longstanding fans) dislike TLJ is this difference in Luke's character:

    * Luke puts himself in danger, always in order to save friends, family and the galaxy:
    - marches into detention area to save a princess
    - risks his own life to destroy the Death Star
    - risks his own life to allow the Rebels to escape Hoth
    - risks his own life, against the restrtaint of Ben and Yoda, to save his friends on Bespin
    - risks his life to save Han from Jabba
    - risks his life by surrendering on Endo to save his friends
    - risks his life by facing Vader and the Emperor.

    Luke in TLJ risks nothing - he runs and hides. He even does nothing when he learns of Han's death!

    * Luke saves, he doesn't destroy.
    - Luke vowed to save Vader from the darkside. Vader who was his father (he had no relationship with), who was also a mass murdering Sith Lord that killed little children.
    - Luke in TLJ would kill his nephew, a boy he has had a relationship with all his life, who hadn't even turned to the darkside yet!

    Luke was the hero of a generation - he is THE HERO of Star Wars, yet instead of being a wise master, that could take the audience into places unimaginable in this trilogy - he is a hermit (something we have all seen before - in Ben & Yoda), as well as being a failure - the son of Anakin (the force personified) who uses the force, straining himself to death.

    Luke's character arc in TLJ is like a square peg in a round hole compared to what he was and should be.

    That is merely the "Luke conversation" as to why people dislike TLJ - there are many, many other conversations to have as to why TLJ is a terrible Star Wars movie.
  • Boo
    3454 posts Member
    I don't know if they can exactly own the failure of TLJ. It feels so out of place and a complete 180.
    Personally, it does make the FA seem better. But I think my issue with FA has to do with characters just showing up and no real backstory. I've been thinking about it and I think that FA is more like the middle film in a trilogy, not the starting film. I get Disney has and will make a ton of money from books and TV series, etc, so the back story is provided there. Just doesn't feel as authentic that way.

    I agree - but to me that's just another reason where TLJH falls short. TFA introduced these new characters, with mystery behind them and where they will go.

    Then Johnson comes along with his "tunnel-vision" approach to making "his" star wars movie and goes nowhere.

    It was TLJ where we should have seen these characters thoroughly fleshed out and where they will grow for E9 - what we got was a devolved Luke Skywalker, a pointless villain in Snoke, Finn returns to cowardice and then back to bravery, Rey goes nowhere, a casino and code breaker plot that also goes nowhere.

    It was a mess. How can E9 possibly clean up after that? It cannot.

    Now we have E9 bringing back the Emperor, which totally destroys the story arc of Anakin/Vader - his purpose and prophecy etc. Now its like all other movies do not matter - out of the frying pan and into the fire, that is what has happened with this franchise and this trilogy is a complete write-off.

    I just hope they make the KOTOR movies well.
  • Boo wrote: »
    I don't know if they can exactly own the failure of TLJ. It feels so out of place and a complete 180.
    Personally, it does make the FA seem better. But I think my issue with FA has to do with characters just showing up and no real backstory. I've been thinking about it and I think that FA is more like the middle film in a trilogy, not the starting film. I get Disney has and will make a ton of money from books and TV series, etc, so the back story is provided there. Just doesn't feel as authentic that way.

    I agree - but to me that's just another reason where TLJH falls short. TFA introduced these new characters, with mystery behind them and where they will go.

    Then Johnson comes along with his "tunnel-vision" approach to making "his" star wars movie and goes nowhere.

    It was TLJ where we should have seen these characters thoroughly fleshed out and where they will grow for E9 - what we got was a devolved Luke Skywalker, a pointless villain in Snoke, Finn returns to cowardice and then back to bravery, Rey goes nowhere, a casino and code breaker plot that also goes nowhere.

    It was a mess. How can E9 possibly clean up after that? It cannot.

    Now we have E9 bringing back the Emperor, which totally destroys the story arc of Anakin/Vader - his purpose and prophecy etc. Now its like all other movies do not matter - out of the frying pan and into the fire, that is what has happened with this franchise and this trilogy is a complete write-off.

    I just hope they make the KOTOR movies well.

    I am excited for the emperor to come back because he was good enough to do it. And, it doesn't destroy the arc. The problem is, the prophecy says the chosen one will bring balance to the force. Balance means both jedi and sith. Killing all the sith means there is an imbalance. There's no way around it, unless the prophecy actually meant, kill all the sith, then we're balanced. Yes, Episode 8 was a mess, and it was bad, but I hope this final film can fix it.
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