If Rian Johnson was a SWGOH character...

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Replies

  • Stenun wrote: »
    The only one I agree with you on is the Mind Trick. It was a fun scene but a little unusual that she mastered it so quickly. Every other example I think is grasping at straws.
    For example, flying the Falcon. There is a rule in storytelling of "show, don't tell"; don't tell us Rey is a good pilot, show us. And that's exactly what they do. They show us Rey is a good pilot.
    For example, beating Kylo Ren in lightsaber combat. As I keep saying, Kylo Ren is so badly injured that he can't muster a simple Force Pull - let alone fight at his full potential.
    All of it, other than the Mind Trick, to me smacks extremely heavily of "we need to attack this character, let's look for reasons to do so".

    Even if they just removed the mind trick, it would go a long way to making it more believable. Though with the piloting, a little bit of background is needed as well. After all the movie shows she has been stuck on Jakuu since being a little girl. And there is no indication that she had any opportunity to practice flying. In fact, it seems to indicate that she has been stuck on jakuu with no chance to learn piloting. And I know that the force seems to help in piloting but at this point she doesn't even know what the force was and had absolutely no training. So while she woukd have faster reflexes, it is a stretch to have her doing han solo level maneuvers the first time she gets in a ship.
  • Stenun wrote: »
    The only one I agree with you on is the Mind Trick. It was a fun scene but a little unusual that she mastered it so quickly. Every other example I think is grasping at straws.
    For example, flying the Falcon. There is a rule in storytelling of "show, don't tell"; don't tell us Rey is a good pilot, show us. And that's exactly what they do. They show us Rey is a good pilot.
    For example, beating Kylo Ren in lightsaber combat. As I keep saying, Kylo Ren is so badly injured that he can't muster a simple Force Pull - let alone fight at his full potential.
    All of it, other than the Mind Trick, to me smacks extremely heavily of "we need to attack this character, let's look for reasons to do so".

    Ok so as I stated before it is the cumulative effect tgat makes it worse. If Like had used the mind trick to get past the stormtroopers, had the expertise to disable the tractor beam and rescue leia on his own with no help needed, and fought vader and won (even if chewie had gotten a lucky shot and injured vader), and blown up the death star your arguement that I'm only criticizing the writing of Rey's character and no Luke's would be warranted. But there is far less suspension of disbelief required in Luke's story than in Rey's story.

    And in ep 9 this won't be too much of an issue. With a time skip and time to study the jedi texts and get guidance off screen from jedi ghosts, any feats she does in ep 9 will be in the realm of possibility given her raw force ability. The problem I have is lack of reason for a skill not her gender.
  • ZAP
    296 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ... forced feminist agenda ...
    Well you've revealed your true colours. Well done.

    I believe it and have seen plenty of proof on the matter.

    People have real complaints and dislikes with ep8, the writing, the acting and the production choices made.

    Rogue One wasn’t a perfect movie either, but you don’t see as much backlash against Jyn and that movie as you do with Rey and ep8.

    I liked Jyn and genuinely enjoyed most everything about Rogue One, the writing, cinematography, acting, etc...

    However I am not a fan of a lot of ep8 and Reys character.

    While clearly Kennedy and a lot of people involved in decision making were pushing a pro female agenda, which is not bad in itself, just think the execution of it could have been much better, I and probably most who thought Reys character and ep8 as a whole could have been better are certainly not pushing an anti female agenda.

    Your claim of sexism in regards to Rey and Luke are unfounded in fact or reality.

  • ZAP wrote: »
    Stenun wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ... forced feminist agenda ...
    Well you've revealed your true colours. Well done.

    I believe it and have seen plenty of proof on the matter.

    People have real complaints and dislikes with ep8, the writing, the acting and the production choices made.

    Rogue One wasn’t a perfect movie either, but you don’t see as much backlash against Jyn and that movie as you do with Rey and ep8.

    I liked Jyn and genuinely enjoyed most everything about Rogue One, the writing, cinematography, acting, etc...

    However I am not a fan of a lot of ep8 and Reys character.

    While clearly Kennedy and a lot of people involved in decision making were pushing a pro female agenda, which is not bad in itself, just think the execution of it could have been much better, I and probably most who thought Reys character and ep8 as a whole could have been better are certainly not pushing an anti female agenda.

    Your claim of sexism in regards to Rey and Luke are unfounded in fact or reality.

    Well put. I hate it when people paint anyone that criticizes anything about the new trilogy as sexist.

    I think we can all have our opinions without calling names. I am ok with some people liking the sequel trilogy but I just don't like them all that much. I have tried to articulate the reasons as have others.

    Some people don't like the prequels and site the bad acting in ep 2 as a reason. That personally doesn't bother me much but they are entitled to their opinion.

    A lot of fans didn't like jar jar. The actor that played him was black. Were they all racist or did jar jar just add nothing to the movie and that was what they didn't like. I personally think it was the second for most people.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    While I accept DarkHelmet1138 has criticisms beyond a sexist agenda, the reason it is hard to be sure at first is because of people like ZAP who is clearly basing his arguments in sexism.
    "[F]orced Feminist Agenda"? Why should the male and female characters be regarded equally? I mean, seriously?? Mate, you need to have a long hard look at your wording in this thread and if you see nothing wrong with it then you need to have a long hard look at yourself.
  • Stenun
    497 posts Member
    Not going to bother returning to this thread anymore.
  • ZAP
    296 posts Member
    Stenun wrote: »
    While I accept DarkHelmet1138 has criticisms beyond a sexist agenda, the reason it is hard to be sure at first is because of people like ZAP who is clearly basing his arguments in sexism.
    "[F]orced Feminist Agenda"? Why should the male and female characters be regarded equally? I mean, seriously?? Mate, you need to have a long hard look at your wording in this thread and if you see nothing wrong with it then you need to have a long hard look at yourself.

    Maybe you saw some buzzwords and aren’t actually understanding what I’m saying?

    Kennedy and others involved with Disney and Lucas Films straight up said they wanted to and then implemented having more female roles in the SW movies than the first six.

    It absolutely was and is an agenda, highly planned and executed in ep7, Rogue One, Solo, ep8, even Rebels and Clone Wars.

    I for one was and still am completely on board with that agenda. Gender balance in the first 6 movies was completely out of whack. I want and can’t wait to have more good female roles in the movies to come.

    The issue is that I believe there were some failures in those new characters, storylines and acting and it has absolutely nothing to do with their gender.

    Not to mention the fact that a lot of criticism of Some of the chars had nothing to do with Rey or rose or holdo themselves, but male writers and Directors.
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    I didn’t like TLJ, that’s just what I thought of it, and I have every right to dislike it. I understand that it’s probably good from a thematic standpoint, but it just didn’t sit well with me.

    That being said, I don’t think we should search for reasons to make it look bad. It’s still a good film. I don’t understand why people that don’t like it are acting like it’s the worst thing in the world or that it needs to be changed because that doesn’t make any sense. It’s a fictional story. You have every right to dislike it, but unless you are creating this universe, why try to ruin it for everyone else? Why try to convince people that they are not allowed to like it? I’m sure there are a lot of people who like Rey better than Luke, and that’s okay! They have that right too. This is why I sympathize more with those defending the movie in this thread than those trying to sabotage it.

    I didn’t like TLJ very much. The only true power I should have to change this franchise is by becoming a director and making the next movie.
  • ZAP
    296 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    I didn’t like TLJ, that’s just what I thought of it, and I have every right to dislike it. I understand that it’s probably good from a thematic standpoint, but it just didn’t sit well with me.

    That being said, I don’t think we should search for reasons to make it look bad. It’s still a good film. I don’t understand why people that don’t like it are acting like it’s the worst thing in the world or that it needs to be changed because that doesn’t make any sense. It’s a fictional story. You have every right to dislike it, but unless you are creating this universe, why try to ruin it for everyone else? Why try to convince people that they are not allowed to like it? I’m sure there are a lot of people who like Rey better than Luke, and that’s okay! They have that right too. This is why I sympathize more with those defending the movie in this thread than those trying to sabotage it.

    I didn’t like TLJ very much. The only true power I should have to change this franchise is by becoming a director and making the next movie.

    People in this thread are trying to sabotage TLJ?

    I’d say several people had a hand in sabotaging it and it certainly wasn’t anyone in this thread.

    I wanted to like it, but just don’t. I want the SW franchise to succeed and keep delivering good entertainment.

    Bottom line is I won’t buy the dvd and I won’t go see it again in the theater. I’m not gonna be guilt tripped into liking it and I’m glad plenty of enough people did enjoy it that they will make more films. I also think the powers that be at Disney and Lucas Films have taken into account some flaws with Solo and ep8 and have been taking corrective action.

    I have hope that future films and shows will be better.

  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?
  • ZAP
    296 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

    I wasn’t talking to you directly, but here we go I guess.

    I never said that only people who like the movie can voice their opinion. I said that I sympathize more with the people defending the movie here because they are not on the offensive. There are some here that are attacking the movie; people like @Stenun are only defending the movie, not attacking people for not liking it. It would be like if I hated Spider Man into the spider verse, which is a movie that received very enthusiastic reviews and found a good wide audience that really like the movie, and then tried to break it down by saying how terrible it is and that it ruined Spider Man for me. That comes across as if you enjoyed the movie, you’re wrong. You have every right to dislike the movie; but why try to break it apart?

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you actually attacked the movie, but if you did, just think about that.
  • ZAP
    296 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

    I wasn’t talking to you directly, but here we go I guess.

    I never said that only people who like the movie can voice their opinion. I said that I sympathize more with the people defending the movie here because they are not on the offensive. There are some here that are attacking the movie; people like @Stenun are only defending the movie, not attacking people for not liking it. It would be like if I hated Spider Man into the spider verse, which is a movie that received very enthusiastic reviews and found a good wide audience that really like the movie, and then tried to break it down by saying how terrible it is and that it ruined Spider Man for me. That comes across as if you enjoyed the movie, you’re wrong. You have every right to dislike the movie; but why try to break it apart?

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you actually attacked the movie, but if you did, just think about that.

    I definitely didn’t attack the movie. I’m not a huge fan of Rey or ep8 for many reasons.

    My only point in this thread was that I can dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the earlier films and that absolutely does not make me sexist.

    It was the sexist garbage that brought me out to post my opinion. I’ve never posted anywhere my dislike for ep8 until now. I've never felt the need to say anything about it until I read some ridiculous things in this thread.

  • If you disagree with me you are either sexist, rascist a nationalist or communist because every thing I say is the absolute truth and cannot be questioned.
  • So in in respect of that statement -
    The sequels are terrible stories and there are countless better plots that they could have come up with.
    The movies are only given the time of day because they have star wars in the title.
  • ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    I don’t think you are glad that other people like it. “Sabotage” was probably the wrong word, but what I was going for was this: Why try to tell other people that a movie they like is bad?

    I didn’t.

    My posting in this thread was me disputing the claim that because people dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the first films that we are sexist because there were problems with Lukes char and his movies as well. I also dislike Luke in ep8, has nothing whatsoever to do with gender.

    So only people that liked the movie can voice their opinion? Why try to tell other people that a movie they dislike is good?

    I wasn’t talking to you directly, but here we go I guess.

    I never said that only people who like the movie can voice their opinion. I said that I sympathize more with the people defending the movie here because they are not on the offensive. There are some here that are attacking the movie; people like @Stenun are only defending the movie, not attacking people for not liking it. It would be like if I hated Spider Man into the spider verse, which is a movie that received very enthusiastic reviews and found a good wide audience that really like the movie, and then tried to break it down by saying how terrible it is and that it ruined Spider Man for me. That comes across as if you enjoyed the movie, you’re wrong. You have every right to dislike the movie; but why try to break it apart?

    Anyway, I’m not sure if you actually attacked the movie, but if you did, just think about that.

    I definitely didn’t attack the movie. I’m not a huge fan of Rey or ep8 for many reasons.

    My only point in this thread was that I can dislike Rey and ep8 and like Luke and the earlier films and that absolutely does not make me sexist.

    It was the sexist garbage that brought me out to post my opinion. I’ve never posted anywhere my dislike for ep8 until now. I've never felt the need to say anything about it until I read some ridiculous things in this thread.

    Yeah I also tire of the sexist label given to anyone that may not like aspects of how Rey's character was written.

    The first rule of debating is that if you have to resort to name calling, you have no better argument.

    I also think that critizing a bad movie is not only allowable but serves a purpose. If everyone that hated the last jedi were silient or silienced, then Disney may continue to make bad movies with no overall plan. But if people call them out on aspects that are horrible or just aspects that need improvement, then they can take that criticism and hopefully make ep 9 a better movie.

    I personally have my doubts that they will but we'll have to see. I really don't trust JJ Abrams and more than Rian Johnson but who knows maybe they had someone come in and help with the storytelling aspect that is better at it. If they have a good writer, it may turn out ok. After all most of my complaints with the last jedi are writing issues not directing ones. The one that I would call a directing error would be the mary poppins leia scene. I have no problem with leia having that ability. She's strong in the force, enough time has passed that she had plenty of time to have learned to use the force. So as I said, no issue there. The issue is it looks ridiculous and adds nothing to the movie. So it probably should have been cut.

    So the biggest problem is they let their directors write what ever they want instead of having a group if writers that make sure everything fits together.

    I've heard that George Lucas was brought in to consult a lot for ep 9 so that may be a sign they learned their lesson. Though there's not much to do to fix ep 8 in the minds of many other than to make it all a dream.
  • Nihion
    2070 posts Member
    They just need to plan like Marvel.
  • Nihion wrote: »
    They just need to plan like Marvel.

    Agreed lack of planing seems to be their biggest issue.
  • kalidor
    1609 posts Member
    He also needs an Overhype ability:
    For 2 turns, all allies gain defense down. Once that expires, they become enemies and gain undispellable retribution and offense up for the rest of the battle.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
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