Something is rotten in the state of GAC

Replies

  • ReveNCZ wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Currently we have a league-based system which is very abruptly elo-like. You can only get matched inside your league...which then only kicks into real effect in later weeks as there are less accomplishers in higher leagues. And even then it's also mingled with cross-division still.

    thats not true, at the start of 3rd GA me and others were chromium and one guy was already in aurodium league

    Did you check everyone's league as soon as you could? Or is it possible that he reached aurodium by setting defenses?
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    ReveNCZ wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Currently we have a league-based system which is very abruptly elo-like. You can only get matched inside your league...which then only kicks into real effect in later weeks as there are less accomplishers in higher leagues. And even then it's also mingled with cross-division still.

    thats not true, at the start of 3rd GA me and others were chromium and one guy was already in aurodium league

    I don't believe that, sorry. I have seen many samples taken at the exact time of matchmaking...and not after that where any action of one of the players can bump them up a league. Are you claiming chromium-aerodium pool happened when you checked it right after matchmaking instance?
  • Dk_rek
    3238 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    Secondly, it actually makes sense that from a division a "mid level" GP would have a chance to get more points than the "top dogs", some possible reasons are- facing slightly easier defenses, which could lead to more feats being completed, more points gained from teams/zones cleared, and general wins

    That may make sense, but it's definately an argument in favour of the leaderboard being meaningless.

    Meaningless, not entirely. It's just not going to show what players expect. That doesnt mean that the player in position 1 didnt complete more feats and score more points in the current system we have.

    The competition as a whole is a series of ways to score points, some people will always be better at that then others. Winning is a major point system, but after that it breaks down to a player by player basis.

    You can't call the leaderboard a competition if some in front can't knock back others on there.

    Really?

    YES KYNO

    Really
  • Brownie
    282 posts Member
    I dont know if its been mentioned, but please take a look at Rank 45 in D1...that is all I need to say
  • Austin9370
    1378 posts Member
    edited August 7
    The problem is...why skill is a requirement to be considered for the top of the leaderboard, the circumstances each player faced is not remotely similar. This causes our current leaderboard results.
  • leef
    13180 posts Member
    Austin9370 wrote: »
    The problem is...why skill is a requirement to be considered for the top of the leaderboard, the circumstances each player faced is not remotely similar. This causes our current leaderboard results.

    yea, which makes it (not entirely) meaningless.
    No suprise there really, just look at the "raid leaderboard" or basically every leaderboard ingame.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Kyno
    22131 posts Moderator
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    Secondly, it actually makes sense that from a division a "mid level" GP would have a chance to get more points than the "top dogs", some possible reasons are- facing slightly easier defenses, which could lead to more feats being completed, more points gained from teams/zones cleared, and general wins

    That may make sense, but it's definately an argument in favour of the leaderboard being meaningless.

    Meaningless, not entirely. It's just not going to show what players expect. That doesnt mean that the player in position 1 didnt complete more feats and score more points in the current system we have.

    The competition as a whole is a series of ways to score points, some people will always be better at that then others. Winning is a major point system, but after that it breaks down to a player by player basis.

    You can't call the leaderboard a competition if some in front can't knock back others on there.

    Really?

    YES KYNO

    Really

    Care to explain.
  • Kyno
    22131 posts Moderator
    Acrofales wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    evoluza wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    Secondly, it actually makes sense that from a division a "mid level" GP would have a chance to get more points than the "top dogs", some possible reasons are- facing slightly easier defenses, which could lead to more feats being completed, more points gained from teams/zones cleared, and general wins

    That may make sense, but it's definately an argument in favour of the leaderboard being meaningless.

    Meaningless, not entirely. It's just not going to show what players expect. That doesnt mean that the player in position 1 didnt complete more feats and score more points in the current system we have.

    The competition as a whole is a series of ways to score points, some people will always be better at that then others. Winning is a major point system, but after that it breaks down to a player by player basis.

    You can't call the leaderboard a competition if some in front can't knock back others on there.

    Really?

    In many sports there is a time, usually as the finals are approaching (but not always)that some teams no matter what they do cant effect others whether they win or lose and those teams could have beaten the top team earlier in the season.

    This leader board just represents the pointed gained. It doesn't necessarily represent who would win when face to face. I'm not saying this represents a player to player "skill", this represents a player to player skill of this game mode as a whole.

    It doesn't even do that accurately, because I am quite confident the #2 would kick the #1s derriere (sorry for the earlier word) in the GA "game mode". But because the matchmaking never matched them, and the #1 probably had far more fortuitous matches, we have this higgledypiggledy "leaderboard".

    They did face each other in this game mode. They didnt face each other in battle, those are 2 different things.

    This game mode is about points in a set system. That system is different then the GA system and that is where I believe the disconnect is. I dont think this leaderboard represents the best players of the game, it may later on when looking at the lifetime, because the 1000 point wins will eventually over take any other scoring, but still not at any minute level since players are not guaranteed to face each other.
  • Kyno
    22131 posts Moderator
    edited August 7
    leef wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    Secondly, it actually makes sense that from a division a "mid level" GP would have a chance to get more points than the "top dogs", some possible reasons are- facing slightly easier defenses, which could lead to more feats being completed, more points gained from teams/zones cleared, and general wins

    That may make sense, but it's definately an argument in favour of the leaderboard being meaningless.

    Meaningless, not entirely. It's just not going to show what players expect. That doesnt mean that the player in position 1 didnt complete more feats and score more points in the current system we have.

    The competition as a whole is a series of ways to score points, some people will always be better at that then others. Winning is a major point system, but after that it breaks down to a player by player basis.

    I don't think the difference between "meaningless" and "not entirely meaningless" matters when it comes to leaderboards.
    I'm not sure where you're going with the whole showing something other than what players expect. I thought it was pretty obvious that you were giving reasons as to why some players got a higher rank which had nothing to do with player skill. Some players being able to earn points more easily due to the circumstances than other players within the same division makes the leaderboard (not entirely) meaningless.

    Because even in similar circumstances, some players will be able to complete feats that other wouldn't.

    But I agree at this level it is not going to show the best players of the game.
  • Austin9370
    1378 posts Member
    edited August 7
    leef wrote: »
    Austin9370 wrote: »
    The problem is...why skill is a requirement to be considered for the top of the leaderboard, the circumstances each player faced is not remotely similar. This causes our current leaderboard results.

    yea, which makes it (not entirely) meaningless.
    No suprise there really, just look at the "raid leaderboard" or basically every leaderboard ingame.

    That's probably the best comparison so far.You get a ⭐!
  • "Championship" is a marketing slogan, nothing more. Anyone who has ever competed in a real tournament that culminates in an actual championship knows that GAC is not a true championship. It's just a round robin competition with a general reward structure based on your record in the round robin matches. While we might like an actual championship or tournament style of play, that's not what GAC is, and GA itself never was that either. I doubt that is coming any time soon.
  • Naver666
    185 posts Member
    edited August 7
    I don't think the leaderboard was meant to show the one player that can beat every other player face to face. Its about collecting a score. MM is a tool to keep chances equal across all GP Tiers. Even if MM needs adjustment i thought it was meant this way, that a lower player has the same chance to climb the leaderboard. After all his task was the same as for top tier Players. Beat others that are compareable to himself and do it as efficently as possible.
  • So underdogs are favored in this matchmaking?
    Why than the question who is the best player? It should be named who has most luck in matchmaking.
    I dislike the way CG has set this up.

    Total misdirection of CG on the said question who is the best player. The leaderboard should be gone to the waste paper basket.

    Full screwing up on any Arena ideas or anything meaningfull. And again ... bad communication because that should have been said prior to this GAC.
  • But if the question simply is who can beat everyone else you would need a System in that everyone faces everyone else. Hardly possible
  • Or a KO System that locks half the Players out after each round. Not fun either
  • I think CG tried pretty hard from the beginning to make it clear this wasn’t about who had the best roster. It’s not who collected the most gear 13 or best moded characters. It’s about who played their roster the best against similar opponents.

    Expecting the best rosters to be top of the leaderboards isn’t relevant to what this was about. Within my guild I ranked third, but my roster is somewhere in the teens. This is what often what happens in my guild. I will place highly in guild events over deeper rosters. And I do think that makes me a better player. Not the marketing hype “Best” that CG is employing, but I can use my roster to better effect than other players.

    That’s what the leaderboards here are meant to show. Comparing rosters in the leaderboard doesn’t mean anything. It was unlikely the top rosters would end up top of the pile. There are other players who use what they’ve built better.

    Personally I think the results are interesting and congratulate all the HONEST top players.
  • 1. They need more divisions.
    2. No cross division matchups.
    3. Flat increase in rewards instead of scaled increase rewards for top place finishes in each league.
    4. Players with the same win lose record should face each other first before reusing the same match making algorithm over and over again.
  • Nihion
    2230 posts Member
    I think the OP highlighted an issue and went about it in a respectful and understanding way. I don’t care much about the topic, but bravo OP.
  • VonZant
    3843 posts Member
    Naver666 wrote: »
    But if the question simply is who can beat everyone else you would need a System in that everyone faces everyone else. Hardly possible

    This may be the main issue. What other method do you use when everyone can't play everyone?

    But OP is actually pretty good highlight os some potential flaws - and perhaps other things.

    But is the leaderboard persistent? Meaning it will continue through all GA?

    Also what OP is arguing logically leads to toughs vs weaks in early rounds, which I am not sure very many people want.

    The current system my be not perfect and a compromise, but it is relatively "blind."
  • Take it easy guys. Maybe CG shouldn’t call it a championship, just call it an event with whatever matchmaking method they have. The leaderboard is just a way to distribute awards based on the system, they can say it is not an indication of who is best player, so it doesn’t hurt anyone’s pride. :) unless they put a league system based on total spend level and time of playing, the ranking will never be an indicator of skills, it will always be something else. So why got upset with this ranking? The only thing we should be universally upset is that there is known cheaters in the list.
  • Prosser wrote: »
    Just an observation, but the guy in first has 88 g12. At his gp you have to field what, 8 teams? That means you need 80 toons at least, 40 def, and 40 offense, if you clear all in one battle. None of the rest of the ones you shared can field a full 80 g12+ toons on off and def, so they have to go weaker on def and keep a strong offense or strong def and have a weaker offense. He can do both. Plus if he is diligent to finish the feats, that will bolster his score more.

    Yeah, that's exactly what I saw.
  • Instead of using GP as league, they should setup initial league based on total spend and time of playing, then they can put higher awards in the leagues with top spend level and long time players. They could allow league promotion through more spending and better playing, so one can earn more rewards by spending, being long time player, and play it more skillfully. And whoever is top of the highest league will likely be the top players legitimately through either heavy spending and playing better.

  • Tiggus
    743 posts Member
    In a GA battle, your skill will influence the outcome of the battle (win/lose), but your opponent actually dictates your score (if both go full offence, both will have high scores, and if your opponent goes full defence, you will certainly get less points, even if you win).

    Each GA round (3 battles in a pool of 8) does a pretty good job at ordering the players by skill: the one at the top had 3/3 victories, he clearly dominates the others and deserves the win.

    The second GA should pitch only these winners against each other, and so on, so that in the end, the leaderboard would be people who got 12/12 victories against increasingly better skilled opponents. Matchmaking would only play its random tricks in the first GA, much less thereafter.

    And all/only folks who got 12/12 (that's 1/4000 players, a rather selective club) end up in Kyber league, with equal ranks since they didn't play each other. Or be more generous and allow all 11/12 as well with a lower score tier.
    ☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/
  • HansSnah
    77 posts Member
    edited August 7
    #1 doesn’t even have Malak...I smell cheat

    Seriously. Check out that guy. 278 spee on DR. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to win with that. 268 on JKR
  • Player stats change over 5 weeks.

    Feats.

    Mods change.

    There is little data presented here to be conclusive about anything. All it does is rile people up.
  • Brownie
    282 posts Member
    Sufinsil wrote: »
    Player stats change over 5 weeks.

    Feats.

    Mods change.

    There is little data presented here to be conclusive about anything. All it does is rile people up.

    Look at the guy ranked 45 in D1 and feed me that same excuse...
  • Feed this GAC to a dark corner and return if you have done your homework.

    And do not ask for policing if you do not give suitable tools. GAC is not Arena with constant monitoring and communication done by chat programs like discord. So rolling out a Beta once again. Oh my. But the top of the spear should donate another 5k to get this done, neeh?
  • Antares
    686 posts Member
    Brownie wrote: »
    Sufinsil wrote: »
    Player stats change over 5 weeks.

    Feats.

    Mods change.

    There is little data presented here to be conclusive about anything. All it does is rile people up.

    Look at the guy ranked 45 in D1 and feed me that same excuse...

    It’s all just plain sad. What a mess!

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