GAC Matchmaking - Zetas, G13, and 6 dot Mods

Replies

  • DHudson wrote: »
    Not one of those you posted is mismatched. Wasted resources on toons never used is a meaningless statistic. Example: 3 zetas on CLS is a waste of zetas. You don't need all 3 for him to be effective. Same can be said for a lot of toons. I'm in division 3 and I don't have DR so no Malak either. My fastest mod set is +127. Haven't lost. Probably not losing this round either. Figure out how to win like the rest of us.

    @DHudson LOL. You're basically making the point that matchmaking is only good at creating widely different experiences for different players. If you and your no DR / no Malak / lack of high speed mods roster is undefeated in D3, it probably just goes to show you that MM is strongly favorable to certain rosters....
    Most likely given his position on zetas, he has fewer then most... That is sorta the point zetas are overweighted in the matchmaking system.... He is also proving the point that the matchmaking system is flawed if he says he is winning his matches easily.
  • TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.

    But you just basically confirmed that the MM system is flawed, because those cases of large advantage are created by it.
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.

    But you just basically confirmed that the MM system is flawed, because those cases of large advantage are created by it.

    I disagree that people should have perfectly matched battles every time.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Vice_torn
    544 posts Member
    edited September 5
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    So the matchmaking system works for you great.... For others it doesn't.... I am at a disadvantage every GAC simply because I have 85 zetas... I get matched with someone with only 75.... In div1 and div2 this basically means they have many more g13s and 6e mods.

    There is absolutely nothing I can do to fix this problem, other then not adding any new zetas to characters. That really is the only solution.

    Look at the examples at the start of this thread... In most cases, one side has more zetas and other has more g13 or 6dot mods.... The player with the 30 g13 toons has the stronger roster by far, but because the GP of the gear is under valued they have the same GP.
    Post edited by Vice_torn on
  • Best strategy is never apply zetas but get g13

    You get favorable matches by making the best teams with lowest power possible.

    They eliminated paper zombie but introduced paper GA which definitely helps with match making. I have 200 plus zetas and not putting another one on anyone until.... who knows.

    Dont wanna mess up my GA advantage
  • Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    So the matchmaking system works for you great.... For others it doesn't.... I am at a disadvantage every GAC simply because I have 85 zetas... I get matched with someone with only 75.... In div1 and div2 this basically means they have many more g13s and 6e mods.

    There is absolutely nothing I can do to fix this problem, other then not adding any new zetas to characters. That really is the only solution.

    Look at the examples at the start of this thread... In most cases, one side has more zetas and other has more g13 or 6dot mods.... The player with the 30 g13 toons has the stronger roster by far, but because the GP of the gear is under valued they have the same GP.

    And having more Zeta characters is one thing while having more G13 characters is something else entirely, but the GP doesn't know that.
  • Best strategy is never apply zetas but get g13

    You get favorable matches by making the best teams with lowest power possible.

    They eliminated paper zombie but introduced paper GA which definitely helps with match making. I have 200 plus zetas and not putting another one on anyone until.... who knows.

    Dont wanna mess up my GA advantage

    I wonder how long will it take for CG to figure that out?
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • dimi4a wrote: »
    Best strategy is never apply zetas but get g13

    You get favorable matches by making the best teams with lowest power possible.

    They eliminated paper zombie but introduced paper GA which definitely helps with match making. I have 200 plus zetas and not putting another one on anyone until.... who knows.

    Dont wanna mess up my GA advantage

    I wonder how long will it take for CG to figure that out?

    Few Years I bet... they have so many other problems and addressing this doesn't make them a profit like a new legendary would...
  • TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....
  • Build counters against 7 times the gear13 you have..Nice joke.
  • Vice_torn wrote: »
    DHudson wrote: »
    Not one of those you posted is mismatched. Wasted resources on toons never used is a meaningless statistic. Example: 3 zetas on CLS is a waste of zetas. You don't need all 3 for him to be effective. Same can be said for a lot of toons. I'm in division 3 and I don't have DR so no Malak either. My fastest mod set is +127. Haven't lost. Probably not losing this round either. Figure out how to win like the rest of us.

    @DHudson LOL. You're basically making the point that matchmaking is only good at creating widely different experiences for different players. If you and your no DR / no Malak / lack of high speed mods roster is undefeated in D3, it probably just goes to show you that MM is strongly favorable to certain rosters....
    Most likely given his position on zetas, he has fewer then most... That is sorta the point zetas are overweighted in the matchmaking system.... He is also proving the point that the matchmaking system is flawed if he says he is winning his matches easily.

    You people are amazing. I never said I was slow. I never said winning was easy. I said I try to win. People are predictable and defense wins championships. Figure the **** out.

    You'd be wrong about the zetas. 598635715.
  • Losers will only complain when they get completely thrashed; I have never complained when I have lost by less than 100 points; it's when I lose by 400-600 points that I start to complain.
    An opponent putting 2 fully maxed G13 teams in the front top corner will stop me dead and I have no way of clearing either of the top zones.

    The last GAC I didn't have Malak and EVERY oponent had a G13 malak which they put in the front, top zone and only once did I beat it, and it took 3 teams to do it. I went 1-11 and only lost 1 match by less than 100 points, the other 10 losses were humiliation.
    Now I have Malak and GG so i'll see how it goes.
    Looking for 1 member with 3.5m+ GP roster to help in GEO TB; we are 185m guild who are 70-6 in TW.
  • DHudson wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    DHudson wrote: »
    Not one of those you posted is mismatched. Wasted resources on toons never used is a meaningless statistic. Example: 3 zetas on CLS is a waste of zetas. You don't need all 3 for him to be effective. Same can be said for a lot of toons. I'm in division 3 and I don't have DR so no Malak either. My fastest mod set is +127. Haven't lost. Probably not losing this round either. Figure out how to win like the rest of us.

    @DHudson LOL. You're basically making the point that matchmaking is only good at creating widely different experiences for different players. If you and your no DR / no Malak / lack of high speed mods roster is undefeated in D3, it probably just goes to show you that MM is strongly favorable to certain rosters....
    Most likely given his position on zetas, he has fewer then most... That is sorta the point zetas are overweighted in the matchmaking system.... He is also proving the point that the matchmaking system is flawed if he says he is winning his matches easily.

    You people are amazing. I never said I was slow. I never said winning was easy. I said I try to win. People are predictable and defense wins championships. Figure the **** out.

    You'd be wrong about the zetas. 598635715.
    You have 45 zetas... By my outlook that is a low count... But I guess that relative... IMO it only becomes an issue I. Div 1/2 when your matched with someone with 10 or more less zetas... And that 25k GP worth of zetas is in the form of g13s and 6e mods
  • It still goes back to how you gear, level and apply abilities. I use 80 toons. My opponent uses 80 toons. My zetas and who I've applied gear two, which mods I slice, who gets mods, which squads are on defense, which squads are for offense, where they are placed on the map, and how I've set up the turns orders is purposeful. It's is also fluid. I've figured out ways to win. You are in this same system. The amount of gear, zetas, G13 toons, G12 toons, and mods will scale relative to your GP growth. You being in division 1 is of no consequence. Enjoy trying to crush the spirits of those atop the spear before relics are released. Rules change then.
  • DHudson wrote: »
    It still goes back to how you gear, level and apply abilities. I use 80 toons. My opponent uses 80 toons. My zetas and who I've applied gear two, which mods I slice, who gets mods, which squads are on defense, which squads are for offense, where they are placed on the map, and how I've set up the turns orders is purposeful. It's is also fluid. I've figured out ways to win. You are in this same system. The amount of gear, zetas, G13 toons, G12 toons, and mods will scale relative to your GP growth. You being in division 1 is of no consequence. Enjoy trying to crush the spirits of those atop the spear before relics are released. Rules change then.

    But that's the thing: G13 toons with 6e mods are currently endgame and aren't taken into account by the GP. It doesn't even take into account any unlocked legendary/journey characters in a roster.
  • DHudson wrote: »
    The amount of gear, zetas, G13 toons, G12 toons, and mods will scale relative to your GP growth.

    Wrong, because g13 and mods do not add enough GP. The power of your roster does not scale with GP.

    Leta say a wookie a droid and a porg, all start with the exact same roster. The porg adds 10 zetas and increases her GP 25k.. The droid buys 50 vaults and takes 500 mods to 6dot. The wookie buys 60 vaults and rakes 40 chars to g13.

    They all end up with the same GP... I suppose we should let the wookie win.

  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    DHudson wrote: »
    The amount of gear, zetas, G13 toons, G12 toons, and mods will scale relative to your GP growth.

    Wrong, because g13 and mods do not add enough GP. The power of your roster does not scale with GP.

    Leta say a wookie a droid and a porg, all start with the exact same roster. The porg adds 10 zetas and increases her GP 25k.. The droid buys 50 vaults and takes 500 mods to 6dot. The wookie buys 60 vaults and rakes 40 chars to g13.

    They all end up with the same GP... I suppose we should let the wookie win.

    Not to mention that character synergies and abilities don't scale with GP too. It's one thing fighting against G12 Ewoks and something else entirely fighting against G12 Darth Revan + Darth Malak.
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.

    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.

    Or CG can simply re-evaluate Zeta, 6e Mods and G13 GP.
  • dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.

    Or CG can simply re-evaluate Zeta, 6e Mods and G13 GP.
    Why the effort if there is already simpler solution stated above?

    Invest in what gives you the bigger benefit comparatively to GP increase instead of trying to change the system.
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.

    Or CG can simply re-evaluate Zeta, 6e Mods and G13 GP.

    Which is more likely, that CG will fix your problems for you or that you will fix your problems for yourself?

    You only have control over one of these options.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.

    Or CG can simply re-evaluate Zeta, 6e Mods and G13 GP.
    Why the effort if there is already simpler solution stated above?

    Invest in what gives you the bigger benefit comparatively to GP increase instead of trying to change the system.
    TVF wrote: »
    dimi4a wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.

    Or CG can simply re-evaluate Zeta, 6e Mods and G13 GP.

    Which is more likely, that CG will fix your problems for you or that you will fix your problems for yourself?

    You only have control over one of these options.

    Q: When are you going to adjust matchmaking? I sometimes face rosters with way more G13 characters and way better speed mods.
    A: Tophat - We've gotten a lot of questions around this idea of "making matchmaking better". What we can offer is that we'll be opening up the investigation again soon., but our current set of analyses indicate that the current matchmaking has led to more "pitched" battles (meaning more players are experiencing a 50% win rate) - which for us is the definition of what we're hoping for. We believe that combat experiences that result in regular victories and losses is more exciting, more engaging, and, hopefully, less one sided. We're going to be running another analysis after the current change to matchmaking (where players can't be surfaced matches that are outside their division) has had its first run. We'll also do some analysis around the impact relics have on matchmaking. A number of players have reached out to us about the "mis-weighting" of zetas relative to G13, which we'll review as well. We've said it a number of places, but we are taking match making very seriously and continue to re-evaluate. We'll let you know if there are any changes we think need to occur.
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    Doesn't invalidate anything I said.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Doesn't invalidate anything I said.

    "A number of players have reached out to us about the "mis-weighting" of zetas relative to G13, which we'll review as well. We've said it a number of places, but we are taking match making very seriously and continue to re-evaluate."
  • TVF
    15164 posts Member
    edited September 6
    You can continue to repeat it as much as you want, it will never change the fact that

    a) They say these types of things all the time and there's no guarantee anything will change
    b) If something does change there's no guarantee it will help you, in fact it might make it worse for you
    c) You have control over your roster, and no control over what CG does
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • dimi4a
    1166 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    You can continue to repeat it as much as you want, it will never change the fact that

    a) They say these types of things all the time and there's no guarantee anything will change
    b) If something does change there's no guarantee it will help you, in fact it might make it worse for you
    c) You have control over your roster, and no control over what CG does

    a) It most likely will
    b) It will make MM closer to being fair, eliminating the big advantages-disadvantages between players as much as possible
    c) Correct on both, but still these re-evaluations will most likely happen
  • ZAP
    412 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Vice_torn wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »

    Disagree.

    So you think 19 G13 to 53 G13 is well matched?

    Depends on the context.

    I can tell you that most of my matches have been fairly even, with just a few where I'm at a large advantage. But even then, so what? That should be incentive for the person on the other end to work on their roster.
    Are you trolling?

    Nope.

    Get some more G13 I guess. Or build more counters.

    OK just not understanding then... Right now I am matched to 10 g13 to 40... If I add 30 g13s I will just face someone with 70 g13s... Not as bad I guess.... Only real solution is as stated above and stop adding zetas.... And hope others keep adding them.

    As stated above... Zetas are now counter productive in GAC....

    One real solution is to stop adding the wrong zetas.
    TVF wrote: »
    You can continue to repeat it as much as you want, it will never change the fact that

    a) They say these types of things all the time and there's no guarantee anything will change
    b) If something does change there's no guarantee it will help you, in fact it might make it worse for you
    c) You have control over your roster, and no control over what CG does

    Some zetas were good and relevant when you or most of the OP zetas and kits were not in the game.

    QGJ and Cody specifically. They definitely weren’t the “wrong” zetas when I added them to my roster. I got decent use out of them, but never asked for a refund when they became obsolete.

    Years later, CG comes up with a new game mode and they use top x char GP to match people. Those zetas and their chars are currently included in my top x GP because zetas add far more than their value compared to other things such as 6e mods and taking a char to G13.

    GP calculation in that regard is flawed and it’s not unreasonable for people to continue to point out that flaw.

    The way you smugly reply to people is horrible and adds nothing but negativity to this forum.
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