Juhani (no shard complaint)

VonZant
3842 posts Member
edited September 5
Ok - please someone tell me what I am doing wrong with her?

Try as I might, she is terrible. I have modded her as a tank, and max tenacity and for damage and for pure crit. All useless. I am about to put a pure speed set on her and move her to a trash Jedi team.

At least in Div 2-3, If I leave her on Carth, they lose unless my opponent is really outmatched. If I attack Carth, I just ignore her and save her for last. She is a giant void on the team. I see what they were trying to do with her, but either I am failing her or she is failing me. If she ever gets to move, Her cleanse is ok, but then she is useless for 4 turns. And her other cool ability is hidden behind a conditional that never gets met so she can never get its full benefit.

I removed her from the team and it gets some defensive wins. I keep her on it and they lose. Would love some suggestions before she gets moved to the bin.

Replies

  • Who do you use instead of her?

    I'm definitely not tryna use / invest in a tank that stealths lmao.
  • Yeah she is like a cross between Teebo and Mace. That is not good.

    T3 is better. Sidious is better. Visas is better. Probably literally anyone is better.

    Or I'm just doing it wrong.
  • Vets 2.0. Nothing more. Well actually the Vets have use in a hybrid Smuggler/Scoundrel team now.

    So she's worse.
  • Use her instead of GK in a JKR team. CD set + 2x CC, Speed arrow, CD triangle, Attack cross, Health circle. Speed at least over 200. Make sure her taunt doesn't expire to early.
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • Yea I don’t use her on carth team either. When I got padme I took gk off my revan team and replaced with her. I figured at least the additional 5 speed would be worth something. It’s definitely useable and that revan team is great. But it’s lacking in some respects to the kenobi or hermit yoda variations. But I’m convinced that’s a better choice than using on carth team.

    I prefer wampa to be on the carth team. Shreds ewoks and makes people think twice about using rebels against them.
  • Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?

  • Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?

    1. Not ideal compared to GK (or Hoda teams), but can work. See Kisakee's post
    2. If you are running zCarth, you usually have big Z on the team. Juhani would be an extra tank (rather than using t3)
    3. If you have enough jedi to support this, sure. There are still better jedi tanks.

  • Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?

    1 yes, but In the same way putting any obsolete jedi on a revan team will make them useful. So she’s not truly adding anything special.
  • Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?

    1. Not ideal compared to GK (or Hoda teams), but can work. See Kisakee's post
    2. If you are running zCarth, you usually have big Z on the team. Juhani would be an extra tank (rather than using t3)
    3. If you have enough jedi to support this, sure. There are still better jedi tanks.

    3. Who would you recommend? GK is with my JKR now, but once my GR is ready he's going there. I don't wanna use hyoda or ezra because putting my g13 JKR on D is a nice lock down of one side in GA, but with either attacker they're too squishy. I was thinking Juhani, luckily I haven't geared her yet but I wanna work on the replacement for GK asap
  • I used her this morning in JKR against NS in GA and she took some hits and then stealthed. Better than a sharp stick in the eye or Teebo, I guess.

    She isnt as vulnurable to debuffs on a JKR team so maybe has some utility.

    I wish they would reduce her taunt cool down and duration. A 4 turn taunt sounds cool but with so many dispels it becomes useless fast. I wish it had a 1 turn duration and 2 turn cool down. Maybe better then.
  • Jack1210 wrote: »
    Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?

    1. Not ideal compared to GK (or Hoda teams), but can work. See Kisakee's post
    2. If you are running zCarth, you usually have big Z on the team. Juhani would be an extra tank (rather than using t3)
    3. If you have enough jedi to support this, sure. There are still better jedi tanks.

    3. Who would you recommend? GK is with my JKR now, but once my GR is ready he's going there. I don't wanna use hyoda or ezra because putting my g13 JKR on D is a nice lock down of one side in GA, but with either attacker they're too squishy. I was thinking Juhani, luckily I haven't geared her yet but I wanna work on the replacement for GK asap

    Honestly, I think the only two jedi tanks worth much are GK and Old Ben. Kanan is probably next, but feels pretty meh outside a phoenix team.

    As for what to do once you move GK to Padme, I would say it depends on your opponent. Assuming they have JKR, use your JKR with Hoda on offence to counter theirs (or another top tier team). If they do not have JKR, chances are they will still struggle against a less defensive team with hoda or ezra. This is based off of my experience wiping out G13 JKRs with standard JKR+hoda.
  • Jack1210 wrote: »
    Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?

    1. Not ideal compared to GK (or Hoda teams), but can work. See Kisakee's post
    2. If you are running zCarth, you usually have big Z on the team. Juhani would be an extra tank (rather than using t3)
    3. If you have enough jedi to support this, sure. There are still better jedi tanks.

    3. Who would you recommend? GK is with my JKR now, but once my GR is ready he's going there. I don't wanna use hyoda or ezra because putting my g13 JKR on D is a nice lock down of one side in GA, but with either attacker they're too squishy. I was thinking Juhani, luckily I haven't geared her yet but I wanna work on the replacement for GK asap

    Honestly, I think the only two jedi tanks worth much are GK and Old Ben. Kanan is probably next, but feels pretty meh outside a phoenix team.

    As for what to do once you move GK to Padme, I would say it depends on your opponent. Assuming they have JKR, use your JKR with Hoda on offence to counter theirs (or another top tier team). If they do not have JKR, chances are they will still struggle against a less defensive team with hoda or ezra. This is based off of my experience wiping out G13 JKRs with standard JKR+hoda.

    Ya that's what I'm thinking, the rest just don't belong anywhere. I think I prefer OB so i can place them on D. Also a little behind on hyoda as i dont even have him unlocked yet.... I know.... But my guild is alternating between hoth and Geo so I'll have him in the near future. Ya Kanan is just not worth it outside Phoenix.
  • Questions from someone that doesn't have full OR or GR teams.

    1. Would she have use on a Revan team as tank there?
    2. Would Zalbaar make a better tank for a Carth team?
    3. What about Juhanni with a zBastila team split off from Revan?
    1: I would not consider Juhani for a Revan team unless I were subdividing Jedi into a Revan team, a Bastila team, and a Padme team. Other than the lead synergy, she's pretty meh. And she really isn't a tank. She's an off-tank, on a team that already has one. And it's a role that isn't clearly defined, which she doesn't do particularly well. Just as notably, Revan teams don't really need a tank. If the key contenders for that slot are pulled, then it's just kinda a dead slot that Juhani doesn't do much more for than, say, Aayla or Qui Gon.

    2: The non-negotiable core of a Carth team is Carth, Candy, Mission, and Big Z. There is no Juhani/Big Z comparison; Big Z is locked and essential. Juhani is not vying for Big Z's spot; she's vying for that floating fifth slot against T3 and Wampa. In that spot, she is okay. She can off tank a bit opposite Zaalbar. She brings a team cleanse which the team wants, though it's on a long cooldown. No DoT synergy. In comparison, T3 doesn't bring a whole lot to a non-droid team and Wampa, while being a powerhouse on their own who synergizes with DoTs, they miss out on the entire lead. This is a reasonable place to use Juhani, but she will not shine.

    3: This is another place where Juhani is reasonable but won't shine, as off tank opposite Old Ben. If you're splitting your Jedi three ways, you're talking something like JKR/GMY/Jolee/Hoda/Open, Bast/Ezra/Ben/Open/Open, and Padme/GK/Ani/Ahsoka/Open. After the Bast/Ezra/Ben triangle, the rest of that lineup's basically scrap utilization. Juhani's fine there. But that's pretty much all she'll ever be; fine.
    Still not a he.
  • Juhani just has a terrible kit. She is a tank whose only taunt is on a really long cooldown so when it gets dispelled she probably isn't gonna be able to retaunt before the battle is over. She also loses her taunt as soon as she loses protection. Any tank you can just ignore is a bad tank. She really needs some kind of ability that forces the player to go after her first.
  • Dwinkelm
    488 posts Member
    edited September 8
    Juhani is trash, junk her. I’ve tested pretty extensively with Carth on both Offense and Defense, as I’m CONVINCED there’s a fifth to make the team shine. Here’s my experience thus far:

    Wampa: shreds on offense with Carth, useless on defense. Wampa is too easy to control himself, while lack of a cleanse keeps traditional Carth counters happy. Generally not enough of a deterrent to stop rebels IMO.

    Tusken Shaman: surprisingly decent.... early offense-up for the team and a well-timed heal can lead to victory. Also, it feels nice to use underutilized toons to worthy effect. If you were as dumb as I was gearing this guy up for a Vader DoT Tank Raid team back in the day, dust him off and give him a shot... he’s AT LEAST as effective as Juhani.

    B2: also decent, but not worth taking away from a droid team if you have one (which I don’t). This guy used to be the quintessential plug-and-play dispeller, and he can still shine in that role. Helps to negate Tenacity-Up buffs, so he helps against Rex counter. He’s also still incredibly annoying to deal with.

    TFP: this guy is actually a killer fit for Carth on offense, and does OK on defense too. TFP has ZERO empire tags in his kit, so all the debuff Carth brings help him to shine. A really fast TFP that opens the battle with both buff immunity and ability block, along with insane TM gain and heavy-hitting, make this a surprisingly fun fit. If you aren’t currently utilizing him in an empire squad, this is a fun and surprising fifth that’ll make your opponent think a little bit.

    Rex: brings the cleanse + Tenacity Up that you WISH Juhani could bring.... however, with all the utility Rex has across the game, this is a silly investment for him. Bummer.

    Chirrut: currently my favorite fifth on a Carth team, utilized for defense. The once OP-synergy of Chaze is practically peanuts compared to new synergies and leaderships IMO, while the utility of a cleanse + Tenacity Up from Chirrut and the Pre-Taunt from Baze are still of paramount importance on any team composition. The HoTs from chirrut help to keep your Carth team survive a touch longer, and while he’s an obvious first target, he’s typically done his job by the time he’s wiped and the DoT train is rolling. (I put Baze on my “Phoenix-Killer” Wiggs team, or on CLS on occasion)


    Hope this helps!

    Anybody else out there experimented successfully with other toons?
  • Also, for those who were interested in the points about splitting Jedi up in this thread:

    I reaaaaally like a slow zKanan on Bastilla lead, especially on offense. Kill the opponent’s dispeller first, and he’ll taunt and live forever.

    I’ve recently been using Bastilla, HY, Ezra, Kanan, and ATF together on offense to great effect.... it’s a very nice use of some underutilized toons (ATF, Kanan) without much compromise. I recommend using Ezra/Bastilla to dispel opponent’s taunt (multiple times if necessary), then go after their dispeller to keep Kanan taunting.
  • @Dwinkelm I would add Visas and Sid to your list. Sid has dots and heal immunity the team doesnt have. And because of his healing mechanic he can trigger Zaalbar multiple times.

    I had never even considered TFP. Have to look at that. Thanks.

    So seems that community verdict = Juhani stinks. Oh well. Gives me back a pretty froggy mod set I have on her.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    1: I would not consider Juhani for a Revan team unless I were subdividing Jedi into a Revan team, a Bastila team, and a Padme team.

    That is what I was getting at.

    My thought was that GK goes w/ Padme.

    And OBen could be with Bastila.

    Which leaves Juhani with Revan.

    I don't personally have any other Jedi "Tanks" except for Mace who isn't really a tank at all, lol.

    Well Kanan but he stays with Phoenix most of the time.

    So it seemed like someplace to put her when you split up Revan/Bastila team she goes with Revan.
  • My juhani just crit 21k.
  • Phoenixeon wrote: »
    My juhani just crit 21k.

    Yes. It happens. But so rarely it's not something to be counted one.

    But if you have insight more helpful than a big number, would love to hear it. ;)
  • That is what I was getting at.

    My thought was that GK goes w/ Padme.

    And OBen could be with Bastila.

    Which leaves Juhani with Revan.

    I don't personally have any other Jedi "Tanks" except for Mace who isn't really a tank at all, lol.

    Well Kanan but he stays with Phoenix most of the time.

    So it seemed like someplace to put her when you split up Revan/Bastila team she goes with Revan.
    You are operating from a presumption that every team needs a tank, rather than a question of, "Does this team need a tank?"

    JKR teams do not need a tank. Also, Juhani is not functional as a sole tank. It's not a case of, "Use Juhani because she's the only tank available." It's, "Is Juhani more useful to this team than Ezra/Hoda/Qui Gon/Aayla." And the answer is... probably not, unless Ezra and Hoda are in high demand elsewhere.
    Still not a he.
  • VonZant wrote: »
    Phoenixeon wrote: »
    My juhani just crit 21k.

    Yes. It happens. But so rarely it's not something to be counted one.

    But if you have insight more helpful than a big number, would love to hear it. ;)

    G13 + offense mod + carth OR team.

    She sucks until G12+4.
  • Dwinkelm wrote: »
    Juhani is trash, junk her. I’ve tested pretty extensively with Carth on both Offense and Defense, as I’m CONVINCED there’s a fifth to make the team shine. Here’s my experience thus far:

    Wampa: shreds on offense with Carth, useless on defense. Wampa is too easy to control himself, while lack of a cleanse keeps traditional Carth counters happy. Generally not enough of a deterrent to stop rebels IMO.

    Tusken Shaman: surprisingly decent.... early offense-up for the team and a well-timed heal can lead to victory. Also, it feels nice to use underutilized toons to worthy effect. If you were as dumb as I was gearing this guy up for a Vader DoT Tank Raid team back in the day, dust him off and give him a shot... he’s AT LEAST as effective as Juhani.

    B2: also decent, but not worth taking away from a droid team if you have one (which I don’t). This guy used to be the quintessential plug-and-play dispeller, and he can still shine in that role. Helps to negate Tenacity-Up buffs, so he helps against Rex counter. He’s also still incredibly annoying to deal with.

    TFP: this guy is actually a killer fit for Carth on offense, and does OK on defense too. TFP has ZERO empire tags in his kit, so all the debuff Carth brings help him to shine. A really fast TFP that opens the battle with both buff immunity and ability block, along with insane TM gain and heavy-hitting, make this a surprisingly fun fit. If you aren’t currently utilizing him in an empire squad, this is a fun and surprising fifth that’ll make your opponent think a little bit.

    Rex: brings the cleanse + Tenacity Up that you WISH Juhani could bring.... however, with all the utility Rex has across the game, this is a silly investment for him. Bummer.

    Chirrut: currently my favorite fifth on a Carth team, utilized for defense. The once OP-synergy of Chaze is practically peanuts compared to new synergies and leaderships IMO, while the utility of a cleanse + Tenacity Up from Chirrut and the Pre-Taunt from Baze are still of paramount importance on any team composition. The HoTs from chirrut help to keep your Carth team survive a touch longer, and while he’s an obvious first target, he’s typically done his job by the time he’s wiped and the DoT train is rolling. (I put Baze on my “Phoenix-Killer” Wiggs team, or on CLS on occasion)


    Hope this helps!

    Anybody else out there experimented successfully with other toons?

    Tusken Shaman works on so many teams. He was my 1st gear 12 on accident, and not a lot of regrets. Hugely underrated "C" character.
  • VonZant wrote: »
    @Dwinkelm I would add Visas and Sid to your list. Sid has dots and heal immunity the team doesnt have. And because of his healing mechanic he can trigger Zaalbar multiple times.

    I had never even considered TFP. Have to look at that. Thanks.

    So seems that community verdict = Juhani stinks. Oh well. Gives me back a pretty froggy mod set I have on her.

    Started trying this with my not so great tie fighter pilot , worked pretty well. Asian stick guy worked better though.
  • Dwinkelm
    488 posts Member
    edited September 10
    LoL “Asian stick guy.”

    I haven’t tried Visas as mine isn’t leveled at all, but I did give my zSid a shot a while ago. That was before I had any of them at g11 even, so I’ll have to go back and revisit using him now that Big Z can take some punishment.

    Has anybody tried using Zarriss on a Carth team? She’s another great plug-and-play zeta character, I don’t see why she couldn’t do her job effectively here. Really, it’s the cleansing that I’m finding to be most effective as a fifth when using them for defense.

    In fact, I run a lot of Crit Avoidance mods on my Carth team when I use them on D. I could replace those with speed, offense, or health/protection on respective toons if I thought Carth could be a semi-permanent home for Zarriss. This could really improve the whole dynamic of the team.


    Hmmmmm. Interesting. Looks like it’s time to go play around with my Carth team again!
    Post edited by Dwinkelm on
  • I accidentally zeta'd her. The only time she hasn't been a waste of space was when I needed her for the legendary events. Yet I leave her in the Carth team because she is g12 and what else am I going to do with her. TFP is an interesting idea but I still use him on offense with Palpatine.
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