Grand Arena Hitting Last an Advantage?

Prev13456
CordycepsX
6 posts Member
edited June 20
Ok, so I live in Australia. The final hours of the GA occur very early in the morning (as in while I’m asleep). Hitting second in GA is a definite advantage, as u can work out exactly what u need to win. It’s garbage to disadvantage the same players every single time. Can we get some rotating start times to Grand Arena?
Post edited by Kyno on

Replies

  • Oh good - another one of these threads.

    @Kyno - merge with the mega!
  • Bruh wdym advantage? Them knowing the # of banners really doesnt matter.

    I mean it's either u win or u lose :P
  • Right now I don't see this as an issue, but I would agree it would be an advantage IF the new battle logs that CG are discussing showing on SWGOH.gg are displayed before the attack phase has ended.
  • CordycepsX
    6 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?
  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?

    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.
  • The advantage is not really that big, you want to be as efficient as possible anyway. And changing the starting time would only cause confusion and lead to missed phases, now that some timing has been established.
  • It can be an advantage in some circumstances for sure. I don't see how that's up for debate. Anyway, I don't really mind it for selfish reasons, since I live in Europe and GAs end in the evening. It's nice being able to see how many points I need, and then I can decide whether to risk battles with undersized squads if I need a lot of points to win, or whether it will be fine to finish off an enemy team using two squads. I can also decide to finish some feats if I'm comfortably ahead. It's not a huge advantage, but there certainly is one.
  • Well, if u know what u need to score before u go than u can go for more points if needed. Attack with a shorthanded squad etc
  • Well, if u know what u need to score before u go than u can go for more points if needed. Attack with a shorthanded squad etc
  • I'm still waiting for a valid reason the timing or who hits first matters. That NS team example was maybe close, but I've seen no other valid reason. Also, it's 24 hrs so when you are awake or asleep should not factor in.
  • If anything, I suppose there's a bit of a scare tactic by hitting last, but that's psychological and not an unfair advantage.
  • There is one situation where going last can be an advantage (though I’m sure many will see it differently to me).

    - player A has cleared all of B’s teams except for a revive team, like NS.
    - Then player A needs to go and do something in real life, like mow the lawn or administer medicine to an angry hippo.
    - Player B comes on and clears all of A’s teams, but does so inefficiently. Player B is ahead of A, but by a small margin.
    - Player A returns to the game and realises that he just needs to clear that NS team, no matter how many attempts it takes, to win the round.
    - Player A sends in his Imperial Trooper team, who are not always 100% successful at beating NS.
    - It starts brilliantly! Zombie killed twice. Then MT is killed! Then Spirit! The troopers are still all alive, but most have plague.
    - Now player A faces a tough decision. Zombie, Daka and AV are all pretty healthy. It’s Shore trooper’s move, and it will be Daka next. Will Shore get the assists to kill another NS? Or will the NS survive and Daka revives MT and Spirit next turn?

    Since player A KNOWS that he doesn’t need to clear the NS first time, he can let the battle time out. Goodbye MT and Spirit. No need to take the risk that all the hard work is undone.

    Who is still using troopers for ns? I thought everyone had moved on to cheesing them with gr.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?

    It doesn't make it easier but that's not the point. If you have two potential teams, the first is a 5 man team you know you have a 99% chance of winning with 58+ banners. The second is a 1 or 2 man team that can give you a 50:50 shot at getting 62+ banners with. If you go first you will most likely take the 99% chance of 58 banners. If you go second and know that 62 banners are required you take the 50:50 option every time.

    Note, I personally don't care because I just play as efficiently as I can when I get the time to. But dismissing peoples concerns about this outright, is disingenuous and pointless. Make a few reasonable arguments against it like "the devs time is better spent elsewhere as there are more important issues" if you are desperate to argue against the idea.
  • There is one situation where going last can be an advantage (though I’m sure many will see it differently to me).

    - player A has cleared all of B’s teams except for a revive team, like NS.
    - Then player A needs to go and do something in real life, like mow the lawn or administer medicine to an angry hippo.
    - Player B comes on and clears all of A’s teams, but does so inefficiently. Player B is ahead of A, but by a small margin.
    - Player A returns to the game and realises that he just needs to clear that NS team, no matter how many attempts it takes, to win the round.
    - Player A sends in his Imperial Trooper team, who are not always 100% successful at beating NS.
    - It starts brilliantly! Zombie killed twice. Then MT is killed! Then Spirit! The troopers are still all alive, but most have plague.
    - Now player A faces a tough decision. Zombie, Daka and AV are all pretty healthy. It’s Shore trooper’s move, and it will be Daka next. Will Shore get the assists to kill another NS? Or will the NS survive and Daka revives MT and Spirit next turn?

    Since player A KNOWS that he doesn’t need to clear the NS first time, he can let the battle time out. Goodbye MT and Spirit. No need to take the risk that all the hard work is undone.

    Who is still using troopers for ns? I thought everyone had moved on to cheesing them with gr.

    Not if you use GR vs DR/Malak
  • It can go both ways. Seeing a wiped board and a high banner score can prompt your opponents to use more undersized squads and take risks they usually wouldn't take, which can easily backfire.
  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    edited September 2019
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    @EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    There is no staring time that is fair for everyone.

    Rotating doesnt mean its fair for everyone, it means it's good at times and bad at times. Fair would be having it start at the same local time for everyone, because everyone would be subject to the same "rule".

  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    @EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    And his/her suggestion for making it fair for everyone is rotating start times as laid out in their original post.
  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    And his/her suggestion for making it fair for everyone is rotating start times as laid out in their original post.

    I edited my post to add clarification on what I meant.

    Since any rotation is still subject to the timezone issue, there will still be people more effected and less effected by any rotation, which doesnt make it fair for everyone.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    @EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    There is no staring time that is fair for everyone.

    Rotating doesnt mean its fair for everyone, it means it's good at times and bad at times. Fair would be having it start at the same local time for everyone, because everyone would be subject to the same "rule".

    The same time isn’t fair, regardless of its a certain local time or not. 5 pm doesn’t work for everyone.

    Yes, I guess technically it will never be fair to everyone (someone who doesn’t work will always have an advantage over someone who does, as one example), but rotating times is making it as fair as possible for as many people as possible without taking more drastic measures.

    It’s a low cost change that has 0 downside.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    And his/her suggestion for making it fair for everyone is rotating start times as laid out in their original post.

    I edited my post to add clarification on what I meant.

    Since any rotation is still subject to the timezone issue, there will still be people more effected and less effected by any rotation, which doesnt make it fair for everyone.

    Under the assumption there's a good/bad start time (which can be debated of course) then in the current setup there are some people in the world that always have the good time and some people that always have the bad time. Under rotating start times everyone will sometimes have a good time and sometimes have a bad time. One of those situations is definitely more "fair" than the other in my opinion.

    Personally don't mind either way as I said. But there's no reason I can see that rotating start times shouldn't go on that list of QOL updates the devs have, that didn't quite make the cut this time. ;)
  • There is one situation where going last can be an advantage (though I’m sure many will see it differently to me).

    - player A has cleared all of B’s teams except for a revive team, like NS.
    - Then player A needs to go and do something in real life, like mow the lawn or administer medicine to an angry hippo.
    - Player B comes on and clears all of A’s teams, but does so inefficiently. Player B is ahead of A, but by a small margin.
    - Player A returns to the game and realises that he just needs to clear that NS team, no matter how many attempts it takes, to win the round.
    - Player A sends in his Imperial Trooper team, who are not always 100% successful at beating NS.
    - It starts brilliantly! Zombie killed twice. Then MT is killed! Then Spirit! The troopers are still all alive, but most have plague.
    - Now player A faces a tough decision. Zombie, Daka and AV are all pretty healthy. It’s Shore trooper’s move, and it will be Daka next. Will Shore get the assists to kill another NS? Or will the NS survive and Daka revives MT and Spirit next turn?

    Since player A KNOWS that he doesn’t need to clear the NS first time, he can let the battle time out. Goodbye MT and Spirit. No need to take the risk that all the hard work is undone.

    Who is still using troopers for ns? I thought everyone had moved on to cheesing them with gr.

    Put my GR on defence this round. And beat NS with troopers. What you do =/= what everyone does.
  • Kyno
    32056 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    @EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    There is no staring time that is fair for everyone.

    Rotating doesnt mean its fair for everyone, it means it's good at times and bad at times. Fair would be having it start at the same local time for everyone, because everyone would be subject to the same "rule".

    The same time isn’t fair, regardless of its a certain local time or not. 5 pm doesn’t work for everyone.

    Yes, I guess technically it will never be fair to everyone (someone who doesn’t work will always have an advantage over someone who does, as one example), but rotating times is making it as fair as possible for as many people as possible without taking more drastic measures.

    It’s a low cost change that has 0 downside.

    Slight down side, starting events of this magnitude at off times for the dev team, has shown to not be the best idea.
  • Rotating start times seems reasonable. I think those who are arguing that going last has no advantage whatsoever are being disingenuous... If you know you can 100% win with 5, but know that you need to try with 4 or 3 it adds uncertainty that you might not otherwise risk... To prove my point, what would people think if banner count and wins/losses were not displayed at all until the end of the time or both players clear all territories? This would fully resolve the whole issue/discussion for everyone who has posted... "Hey, that takes away excitement because then you wouldn't know..."...Exactly.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The game is world wide, there is no time that works for everyone.

    Come on Kyno, read the OP's suggestion which is the topic of discussion. "There is no time that works for everyone" is exactly countered by his/her suggestion of rotating start times.
    You need 62 points in a battle, can you please explain how knowing this makes getting those points easier in battle?
    @EduardoCadav
    I replied to this post >>>
    CordycepsX wrote: »
    How about this.... a player sets an absolute FU defence. Both revans, GG, padme, etc, etc. Their best 8 teams straight onto defence. Then waits. If u full clear, they lose. If u don’t, they know exactly how many banners they need with whatever offence they have left. Their whole strategy revolves around hitting second. I’m not saying it’s an unfair strategy, it’s quite good, actually. The only thing I was asking originally is why not make the starting times fair for everyone?

    There is no staring time that is fair for everyone.

    Rotating doesnt mean its fair for everyone, it means it's good at times and bad at times. Fair would be having it start at the same local time for everyone, because everyone would be subject to the same "rule".

    The same time isn’t fair, regardless of its a certain local time or not. 5 pm doesn’t work for everyone.

    Yes, I guess technically it will never be fair to everyone (someone who doesn’t work will always have an advantage over someone who does, as one example), but rotating times is making it as fair as possible for as many people as possible without taking more drastic measures.

    It’s a low cost change that has 0 downside.

    Slight down side, starting events of this magnitude at off times for the dev team, has shown to not be the best idea.

    Ok, fair enough. I would still argue for rotating start times but I’ll concede you have a point there. At minimum they could still rotate start times within their more convenient hours.
  • Solus_Imperius
    217 posts Member
    edited September 2019

    Anyone that would feel "pressured" by the number of banners needed probably wouldn't beat you anyways.
    Either you win or you lose. It's that simple.
    I always hit first and 70% of the time my opponent doesn't even attempt to fight back.
    Either you have a bigger punch or your opponent does, it doesn't matter who hits first. The bigger swing gets the knockout plain and simple.
    Post edited by Fauztin on
  • 70% of the time they don’t fight back?

    Not sure I’ll place any faith in the opinions of someone who is getting such an easy ride. That’s 70% more than I’ve experienced for a start.
This discussion has been closed.