Trying to stay positive

I’ve been playing this game for years. Really enjoyed it. Dropped some coin here and there. I’ve tried not to get down when CG made some poor changes and just go with it. But how freaking long is it going to take for CG to update our challenge drops, holy hell. Been needing omegas, stun guns, and carbantis for years. Now finisher items are just another paywall. CG your going to kill your base if you don’t make this better...ffs fix it, a disgruntled game vet

Replies

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
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    Yes, this game has paywalls. Yes, some items are only available in limited supplies for free. What's your point?
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
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    How is that confusing?

    You tell me. I don't find it confusing that new paywalls are introduced. How do you find it confusing?

  • Options
    I’ve been playing this game for years. Really enjoyed it. Dropped some coin here and there. I’ve tried not to get down when CG made some poor changes and just go with it. But how freaking long is it going to take for CG to update our challenge drops, holy hell. Been needing omegas, stun guns, and carbantis for years. Now finisher items are just another paywall. CG your going to kill your base if you don’t make this better...ffs fix it, a disgruntled game vet
    That is not how paywalls work. This game has zero paywalls.

    A paywall is content locked behind money. Not content that can be earned faster with money. Not content that is slightly more convenient with money. Content you cannot get without money.

    Make the finishers a priority and you will have them. It is not a paywall.
    Still not a he.
  • Options
    Man all that watching the promo video for relics did was make me want to quit haha
  • Options
    Kyrotech has been a pretty bad paywall. If scavengers can convert my trash gear into Kyrotech, then maybe it can slide. But in it's current state, it's a paywall.
  • Options
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    I’ve been playing this game for years. Really enjoyed it. Dropped some coin here and there. I’ve tried not to get down when CG made some poor changes and just go with it. But how freaking long is it going to take for CG to update our challenge drops, holy hell. Been needing omegas, stun guns, and carbantis for years. Now finisher items are just another paywall. CG your going to kill your base if you don’t make this better...ffs fix it, a disgruntled game vet
    That is not how paywalls work. This game has zero paywalls.

    A paywall is content locked behind money. Not content that can be earned faster with money. Not content that is slightly more convenient with money. Content you cannot get without money.

    Make the finishers a priority and you will have them. It is not a paywall.

    It is a paywall, in the sense that if you didn't pay to (in the nicest way to say it) "assist" gearing, your toon is useless. You would've missed unlocking certain events and rewards. Not saying that you shouldn't have to pay for new content, but I think players are more vocal now because it's WAY too expensive to keep up.
  • TVF
    36598 posts Member
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    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb

    There is no content locked behind money, as stated.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb
    This is a long-term resource management game. Resources are limited. How you spend them over time is the most important decision in the game.

    Yes, you will be continuously hungry for certain resources. Make them a priority, spend the time and effort, and you will get them. You will use them. You will make progress toward an increasing number of goals. They are an obstacle. They are not a paywall.

    Also, they have made older resources easier to get. Much easier. Step by step, they've added new vectors for gaining more stuff that makes it easier to gear up your units. And they doubtless will continue to do so.
    Still not a he.
  • Options
    ZAP wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb

    There is no content locked behind money, as stated.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb
    This is a long-term resource management game. Resources are limited. How you spend them over time is the most important decision in the game.

    Yes, you will be continuously hungry for certain resources. Make them a priority, spend the time and effort, and you will get them. You will use them. You will make progress toward an increasing number of goals. They are an obstacle. They are not a paywall.

    Also, they have made older resources easier to get. Much easier. Step by step, they've added new vectors for gaining more stuff that makes it easier to gear up your units. And they doubtless will continue to do so.

    It’s pretty clear that you both get max or close to max crystals from arenas.

    While technically true that all char shards and gear are available at some point for free to everyone, the amount of time it takes to acquire them can be vastly different depending on your crystal income and whether you spend actual cash.

    I know it’s difficult for you to understand, but how much do you think your char, gear and mod progress would slow down if you only earned 75-100 crystals a day from both arenas total?

    That’s 2,250-3000 crystals a month compared to the nearly 27,000 crystals a month you currently get.

    The refreshes, gear, mods, chars that YOU can get via crystals takes me 9 times longer. What you can do in a month takes me and 99% of the player base 9 months.

    Of course it’s a resource management game, neither of you are intelligent for pointing that out. It’s the disparity of crystal income between the top 1% of players such as yourselves and the other 99% of us that causes a lot of people to speak out about how progression just seems to get slower and slower.




    What stops you from getting more than 75 to 100 crystals a day in arena?

    If you want more crystal income than build the teams to get it. It only takes one good team to be in the top of arena and one good fleet team to be at the top of fleet arena.

    Typically the last 3 arena metas are viable in the top 50 or arena if you work at it. Jkr teams with thrawn can beat malak if you work at it. There is no reason anyone can't have jkr geared for arena by now.

    For fleet the falcon has been meta for six months or more. More than enough time to have farmed it and geared the toons.

    Even if you only get top 20 that gives you 200 crystals in and another's 100 in fleet. That's far better than 75 to 100. And enough to farm the next meta the 2nd time it comes. Then you can move to the top 10 or 5 and get enough crystals to attempt to get the next meta.

    The top of arena is achievable by anyone who works at it. You can either work at it or whine about it not being fair.
  • Options
    ZAP wrote: »
    It’s pretty clear that you both get max or close to max crystals from arenas.

    While technically true that all char shards and gear are available at some point for free to everyone, the amount of time it takes to acquire them can be vastly different depending on your crystal income and whether you spend actual cash.

    I know it’s difficult for you to understand, but how much do you think your char, gear and mod progress would slow down if you only earned 75-100 crystals a day from both arenas total?

    That’s 2,250-3000 crystals a month compared to the nearly 27,000 crystals a month you currently get.

    The refreshes, gear, mods, chars that YOU can get via crystals takes me 9 times longer. What you can do in a month takes me and 99% of the player base 9 months.

    Of course it’s a resource management game, neither of you are intelligent for pointing that out. It’s the disparity of crystal income between the top 1% of players such as yourselves and the other 99% of us that causes a lot of people to speak out about how progression just seems to get slower and slower.
    Interesting you call that "obvious" when it is false.

    Most days, I end top 500 in arena, top 50 in fleet. That's 110 crystals. On a good day, I end top 200 in arena, top 20 in fleet, which is 175 crystals. According to swgoh.gg, in the last 30 days, I had 13 days in top 200, 17 in the top 500 for squad. 3 days in the top 20 and 27 in the top 50 for fleet. So that's an average of 121.5 crystals per day from arena, 3645 a month from the arenas. I have, in the past, done better in squad arena. Prior to Kevan 3, Devan 2, and Malak 2, my JKR held in the top 200 more consistently and could sometimes strike for the top 100. However, broad strokes, this is fairly normal performance for me.

    I do not find fleet and squad arena to be the more enjoyable modes of the game, so I do not focus my efforts there.

    It's also important to remember we are getting crystals from MANY sources other than the arenas. You say 2250-3000 crystals a month is the norm. However, daily activities give 65/day. The daily box gives about 20/day. GW gives 25/day. That's 110/day, 3300/month before even looking at arena. Calendar is 500 a month, 16 2/3 a day. TB is 300 every 15 days if you manage 12 stars on Geonosis, making 20/day, which is achievable for an established player in a solid guild. Grand Arena is 300 every 35 days, for another 8.5/day if you can make Aurodium, which is not unreasonable. The bounty board is another 100 every time it happens, and we generally get one of them a month for another 3 1/3 per day. Put all that together and you're talking almost 160/day, 4800/month before even looking at arena.

    None of these are unreasonable goals. And that's going to be the lion's share of crystal income for the majority of players. And you know what? That plus even modest arena crystals is an entirely reasonable income to work with and build with. You know why?

    Your premise that overall progress in the game scales linearly based on arena crystals is every flavor of nonsense.

    You rapidly hit diminishing returns from crystals. It's a highly inefficient source of gear. You get plenty of crystals to take many of the most efficient actions you can using crystals without getting number one in arena. Getting a much higher crystal income can be useful, sure, but it will not speed your overall progress by an order of magnitude. They are a part of your overall resource income, but they are by no means the bulk. One of the reasons my crystal income has stayed lower than it might otherwise be is because I prioritized hSith performance and managed to get a comfortable top ten on lock, which has earned me significantly more than going up a tier or two in arena would have. There are many, many ways to amass zots. Arena crystals are one of many, and vastly overstated in terms of importance.
    Still not a he.
  • Options
    ZAP wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb

    There is no content locked behind money, as stated.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb
    This is a long-term resource management game. Resources are limited. How you spend them over time is the most important decision in the game.

    Yes, you will be continuously hungry for certain resources. Make them a priority, spend the time and effort, and you will get them. You will use them. You will make progress toward an increasing number of goals. They are an obstacle. They are not a paywall.

    Also, they have made older resources easier to get. Much easier. Step by step, they've added new vectors for gaining more stuff that makes it easier to gear up your units. And they doubtless will continue to do so.

    It’s pretty clear that you both get max or close to max crystals from arenas.

    While technically true that all char shards and gear are available at some point for free to everyone, the amount of time it takes to acquire them can be vastly different depending on your crystal income and whether you spend actual cash.

    I know it’s difficult for you to understand, but how much do you think your char, gear and mod progress would slow down if you only earned 75-100 crystals a day from both arenas total?

    That’s 2,250-3000 crystals a month compared to the nearly 27,000 crystals a month you currently get.

    The refreshes, gear, mods, chars that YOU can get via crystals takes me 9 times longer. What you can do in a month takes me and 99% of the player base 9 months.

    Of course it’s a resource management game, neither of you are intelligent for pointing that out. It’s the disparity of crystal income between the top 1% of players such as yourselves and the other 99% of us that causes a lot of people to speak out about how progression just seems to get slower and slower.




    What stops you from getting more than 75 to 100 crystals a day in arena?

    If you want more crystal income than build the teams to get it. It only takes one good team to be in the top of arena and one good fleet team to be at the top of fleet arena.

    Typically the last 3 arena metas are viable in the top 50 or arena if you work at it. Jkr teams with thrawn can beat malak if you work at it. There is no reason anyone can't have jkr geared for arena by now.

    For fleet the falcon has been meta for six months or more. More than enough time to have farmed it and geared the toons.

    Even if you only get top 20 that gives you 200 crystals in and another's 100 in fleet. That's far better than 75 to 100. And enough to farm the next meta the 2nd time it comes. Then you can move to the top 10 or 5 and get enough crystals to attempt to get the next meta.

    The top of arena is achievable by anyone who works at it. You can either work at it or whine about it not being fair.

    You clearly don’t understand how arena works if you think anyone who works at it can get to the top. There are only 24 #1 payouts per day, per shard with thousands of active players per shard. Granted the older the shard probably the less active players.

    I was top of arena and in a shard chat for over 2 years. Even then, in my chat I shared a payout time with 3 others, so I didn’t get 1st daily.

    I took 10 months off from the game when the traya meta hit and came back this march. Im still grinding and feel lucky just to be sub 100 every day. The people at the top of my shard are 10 months of grinding mods, gear and chars ahead of me. My situation is self imposed and different than most and I’m definitely not whining.

    What I am saying is that there’s only so much room at the top of arenas for crystal intake. The majority of players will never make it up top, it’s basic math given arenas payout schedules.

    Players with 900 daily crystal income will continue to progress their rosters exponentially and the game will of course be manageable for them compared to the overwhelming majority of other players.

    That’s what I was responding to, 2 players who always tell people to manage their resources better when they have no idea or don’t remember how difficult it is to manage 1/9th or less the resources they have daily.

    How many new players do you have every day battling you for top spots? Very few if any I imagine.

    In my opinion there needs to be more ways to generate crystal income besides a few spots in arena in a game that has so many modes that demand so many chars, gear and mods.

    Sounds like CG might just do that someday and guess who’s whining about that? The very players who know they have it good in arena and have a huge edge on the majority of the player base.

    You can change your payout so in most shards there are enough slots to go around if you can be flexible with the time.

    And even if there are 5 at your payout, you can still get top 5 so that's no excuse for getting only 75 to 100 crystals per day.

    I get 1st most days on my main account and top 50 on my alt that I started in feb. Both are completely ftp. So it is definitely possible to do far better than 100s. In fleet i get 1st on my main and top 10 most days on my alt.

    So with focus it can be done. If you want more resources, you can get them by building a competitive arena team. I'm sure ot sucks if you took a year off. You have to start over and build a new meta team. But you can farm the characters and enough mods for that team with time and focus.
  • Options
    ZAP wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb

    There is no content locked behind money, as stated.
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Zero paywalls? U serious? You see the free to play players leaving like most? I have finishers but to say they are paywall is total rubbish. Now that there’s a new one, make the old paywall easier to climb
    This is a long-term resource management game. Resources are limited. How you spend them over time is the most important decision in the game.

    Yes, you will be continuously hungry for certain resources. Make them a priority, spend the time and effort, and you will get them. You will use them. You will make progress toward an increasing number of goals. They are an obstacle. They are not a paywall.

    Also, they have made older resources easier to get. Much easier. Step by step, they've added new vectors for gaining more stuff that makes it easier to gear up your units. And they doubtless will continue to do so.

    It’s pretty clear that you both get max or close to max crystals from arenas.

    While technically true that all char shards and gear are available at some point for free to everyone, the amount of time it takes to acquire them can be vastly different depending on your crystal income and whether you spend actual cash.

    I know it’s difficult for you to understand, but how much do you think your char, gear and mod progress would slow down if you only earned 75-100 crystals a day from both arenas total?

    That’s 2,250-3000 crystals a month compared to the nearly 27,000 crystals a month you currently get.

    The refreshes, gear, mods, chars that YOU can get via crystals takes me 9 times longer. What you can do in a month takes me and 99% of the player base 9 months.

    Of course it’s a resource management game, neither of you are intelligent for pointing that out. It’s the disparity of crystal income between the top 1% of players such as yourselves and the other 99% of us that causes a lot of people to speak out about how progression just seems to get slower and slower.




    What stops you from getting more than 75 to 100 crystals a day in arena?

    If you want more crystal income than build the teams to get it. It only takes one good team to be in the top of arena and one good fleet team to be at the top of fleet arena.

    Typically the last 3 arena metas are viable in the top 50 or arena if you work at it. Jkr teams with thrawn can beat malak if you work at it. There is no reason anyone can't have jkr geared for arena by now.

    For fleet the falcon has been meta for six months or more. More than enough time to have farmed it and geared the toons.

    Even if you only get top 20 that gives you 200 crystals in and another's 100 in fleet. That's far better than 75 to 100. And enough to farm the next meta the 2nd time it comes. Then you can move to the top 10 or 5 and get enough crystals to attempt to get the next meta.

    The top of arena is achievable by anyone who works at it. You can either work at it or whine about it not being fair.

    You clearly don’t understand how arena works if you think anyone who works at it can get to the top. There are only 24 #1 payouts per day, per shard with thousands of active players per shard. Granted the older the shard probably the less active players.

    I was top of arena and in a shard chat for over 2 years. Even then, in my chat I shared a payout time with 3 others, so I didn’t get 1st daily.

    I took 10 months off from the game when the traya meta hit and came back this march. Im still grinding and feel lucky just to be sub 100 every day. The people at the top of my shard are 10 months of grinding mods, gear and chars ahead of me. My situation is self imposed and different than most and I’m definitely not whining.

    What I am saying is that there’s only so much room at the top of arenas for crystal intake. The majority of players will never make it up top, it’s basic math given arenas payout schedules.

    Players with 900 daily crystal income will continue to progress their rosters exponentially and the game will of course be manageable for them compared to the overwhelming majority of other players.

    That’s what I was responding to, 2 players who always tell people to manage their resources better when they have no idea or don’t remember how difficult it is to manage 1/9th or less the resources they have daily.

    How many new players do you have every day battling you for top spots? Very few if any I imagine.

    In my opinion there needs to be more ways to generate crystal income besides a few spots in arena in a game that has so many modes that demand so many chars, gear and mods.

    Sounds like CG might just do that someday and guess who’s whining about that? The very players who know they have it good in arena and have a huge edge on the majority of the player base.

    You can change your payout so in most shards there are enough slots to go around if you can be flexible with the time.

    And even if there are 5 at your payout, you can still get top 5 so that's no excuse for getting only 75 to 100 crystals per day.

    I get 1st most days on my main account and top 50 on my alt that I started in feb. Both are completely ftp. So it is definitely possible to do far better than 100s. In fleet i get 1st on my main and top 10 most days on my alt.

    So with focus it can be done. If you want more resources, you can get them by building a competitive arena team. I'm sure ot sucks if you took a year off. You have to start over and build a new meta team. But you can farm the characters and enough mods for that team with time and focus.

    Oh I’m working on it, maybe I’ll get back up too one day, maybe I won’t.

    The OP, a player who has been playing for years, posted frustration with gear grinding and progression. I agree with that sentiment.

    This game has gotten more grindy over the years and the main source of crystal income, the arenas, became a prescribed meta and much less diverse. It’s gotten slightly better over the last couple of months with GG droids and GR being able to compete with revans and hopefully soon more teams will be able to jump into the mix.

    I play this game for fun and there’s an element of satisfaction and fun to working on chars and teams that a grind provides. However the gap between that grind vs actual playtime has gotten wider, at least for me and many others who express frustration here or reddit or wherever.

    I think CG is making a mistake by adding relics so soon after G12 finishers, and keeping gear like stun guns and eyeballs trickling in at a snails pace, when every relevant char needs loads of them, but time will tell.

    Oh I never said the gear grind isn't real. Only that doing well in arena is possible for most if the effort is put in. It is hard to beat a new meta if you miss it. I remember missing revan the first time and having to beat it with a 5 star traya (and for a little while with just ep led sith). It's hard and you have to mod your team correctly and think outside the box. For example, if the jkr was fast enough, I'd have to use tarkin lead to keep up and get fracture on him. And some were just too fast to beat. But I still managed top 10 or 20 through that.

    Right now there ate gg teams that stay in the top 20 of my arena. Ironically they are really easy to beat with an ep traya team with fair mods but a pain to beat with darth revan. But those teams could be used to leap frog to an extent if played correctly.

    As far as the relics, I'm still on the fence on those. Cg has said they are implementing them as a way to be able to make lower gear more readily available. If that's true nd they actually make getting to g13 easier, then it could be ok. Only time will tell.

    In a larger sense though, they have to make the gear crunch hard enough that those that do well in arena still can't finish gearing everything easily and thus still have motivation to spend.

    And I imagine that casual players that place lower in arena have an even harder time but part of that is their choice not to focus more time in game or to be less efficient.

    I can say for sure that itis possible even with gear 13 to do well in the game and gear character fast enough to keep doing well ftp. I got all my arena team to g13 within a week or two (fast enough to not lose any ranks in arena) thiugh I did have to use some hoarded crystals (but not that many). Most other characters can be left at g12 or farmed more slowly to g13.

    I have seen on my alt account that team composition makes more difference than g13. I have seen several full g13 bh ot fo teams on my shard but they are easily beaten by g11 jkr teams. So unless you are ultra competitive, it won't be the end of the world. And if you are ultra competitive, you likely earn enough crystals to keep up ok.
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