Hey - what's this zeta on 5's all about? Kix inc?
So, just thinking out loud here....
Who in the world would be reviving 5's?
You wouldn't slot Visas, Old Daka, Jyn, Hoth Han in this group.
So who in the heck is reviving anyone in a clone group?
They already have a "clone medic" whom Kix was, and was a member of the 501st.
Change the skin, tweek the talent. Kix?
Who in the world would be reviving 5's?
You wouldn't slot Visas, Old Daka, Jyn, Hoth Han in this group.
So who in the heck is reviving anyone in a clone group?
They already have a "clone medic" whom Kix was, and was a member of the 501st.
Change the skin, tweek the talent. Kix?
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Its to prevent theorycrafting teams with that include a reviving toon -- doesn't mean we are getting a clone trooper that revives per se
But once it procs, wouldn't already the other clones not be at max stats from 5's the first time?
You're saying it would keep multiplying without it? Because they "the first time so and so dies" some where else in the game and this could have easily have been coded likewise right?
Old ben is who I am thinking of.
After all, YOU SAY you wouldn't put Ewok Elder or Old Daka or whomever in this group, but if 5s boosts the stats of other 501st allies by an amount equal to his own Max Health and Offense when he dies AND it stacked so if you die more than once you could multiply the bonuses, then people would put a reviver in the group on purpose, just to get 5s killed as many times as possible.
Because of the mechanic involved, I think the "no revive" aspect of his kit was necessary whether or not any Clone Medic might be coming along later. And if it was necessary regardless of whether or not a clone reviver is coming, then that means we can't use that language to predict that a new clone reviver is on the way.
Sorry, but we're simply stuck without any reasonable basis for a prediction at this point.
It's fair to ask, Why not simply do this?
Why was it necessary? Old been has a talent where it clearly states the First time he is defeated he give bonuses to all allies.
So why not simply word it and code it this way? It's essentially the same.
Of course it's fair to ask. Unfortunately the answer is, "We don't know."
Then again, the text is always subject to change. ANd it seems as of late, it often does. In order to guard spoilers etc.
Giving a few buffs that can be dispelled and giving 170k worth of h/p 4-5k offence and 250speed are not the same. Having him revive and still having Rex and echo with Superman boost is just ridiculously OP
As opposed to Old Ben who... did exactly the same thing?
That wouldn't quite work, as it only triggers on 501st allies, which Cody isn't. It'd have to be a weak ashoka, rex, or echo.
This argument is based on the premise that every time 5's dies they would keep getting his bonus.
As I stated before, they already have Old Ben Kenobi and it clearly states "THE FIRST TIME" he dies.
5's does not revive himself like Zombi.
And Zombie doesn't give any bonuses when zombie dies.
You need the character in that receives bonuses for death or % health lower = bonus turn etc..
This is a bad analogy in my opinion as they share very little of the same mechanics.
Quite frankly, it's like I said, I will NOT be surprised if Kix isn't introduced as a part of the 501st. I also will not be shocked if he is.
My one question would be, if there is a Kix or clone who can revive, would people who zeta'd 5's get their refunded?
Why would they get anything refunded?? Applying the zeta doesn't prevent him from being revived
1. Game balance. It’s a very powerful unique and having fives revive after giving his stats for the first time only can still be OP
2. It’s not thematic — the Ability is based on Fives sacrificing himself for his brothers. It cheapens his sacrifice if he’s able to come back afterwards
It could still be abused. If Fives's unique is triggered, you get a supercharged Rex and Echo and if you could revive Fives (whether by Visas, a new clone or anyone else) you'd even get your durable tank back without any drawbacks.
It does not exclude the addition of a new clone (let it be Kix), but it doesn't hint it either. That failsafe needed to be added for current in-game mechanics anyway.
If they could be abused then why hasn't anyone found a way to abuse Old ben yet?
Because Old Ben doesn't give massive permanent stat boosts, he give some healing and a few buffs.
It's about the kits mostly. There's a lot smaller benefit to gain from a revived OB on a rebel team than Fives on a clone team. The stat gains from Fives are slso not comparable to the slight buff OB gives.
Edit: Strategy wise you also leave OB last, so there's hardly a way to abuse a revive. With Clones it's actually smarter to kill Fives first, so yes, a revive can be abused unlike in the rebels' case.
I will post it again as you clearly don't read everything properly.
"Giving a few buffs that can be dispelled and giving 170k worth of h/p 4-5k offence and 250speed are not the same. Having him revive and still having Rex and echo with Superman boost is just ridiculously OP"
Even if jolee revived old Ben 100 times and he gave those buffs each time he dies , it still couldn't hold a flame to what 5s gives when he dies you can't dispell what fives donates to his 501st clones.
having speed up(25%) for 2 turns and having an extra 250 speed for the rest of the encounter are so far apart. Now compare the rest of OB buffs to 5s max health protection and offence.
Have you thought that perhaps I did read everything clearly but you stated everything poorly?
Isn't that in the realm of possibility?
Saying his stats aren't that great to exploit is a poor point. He's been around for a long time and those stats would have helped with a lot of content could they have been exploited.
It's clear they have a safe guard in.
If you are actually saying the stat gains are so much that it'd be unfair to have a tank like him come back. It's not valid as Old Ben had stats at periods in the game that would have rivaled if not exceeded the bonuses clones get.
You are not right. Just to let you know. You really have no idea do you. Neither do I, hence the post.
Your reason, I do not agree with. Your logic seems flawed in my opinion. I can share that with you WITHOUT insulting you. You seem to take my disagreement as an insult. Hey, it's just a game, just a theory. No one is assaulting you the person.
And that should be fine. You don't agree with mine. Fine.
Honest question: What are you trying to argue/ask?
Why haven't people exploited Old Ben?
Because his buffs are meh, they are only given once (so no point in having him constantly die off), and he doesn't also give major buffs to certain teammates like 5's does with Echo.
Is there a reason that 5's cannot be revived?
Yes, it prevents him being able to die off quickly, pass all of his stats to his 501st allies, and then be revived and continue to boost his/Echo's stats through Domino Squad.
Would they refund a zeta if they brought in a 501st reviver?
No, why would they? The zeta doesn't change whether he can be revived or not.
You clearly do not understand the zeta if you think it compares to old Ben at all not a single person on this thread agrees with you ,every one is trying to explain why your logic is flawed and you still don't get it.
WHEN OLD BEN DIES HE GIVES HIS TEAM BUFFS FOR A FEW TURNS THAT CAN BE DISPELLED. FIVES GIVES HUGE BUFFS FOR THE ENTIRE FIGHT THATS WHY THERE IS NO REVIVE . NOTHING TO DO WITH KIX.
+ 36,000 HP
+ 55,000 Protection
+ 227 Speed
+ 3200 dmg (I know it's offense, but I don't know how to find those stats)
For all the other 501st, that's +150% Health, +140% Protection, +100% Speed, +80?% Offense. It's undispellable and unpreventable for at least 2 of them. It turns Rex from a fragile character to a 70,000 HP, 110,000 Protection beast.
It's honestly almost like he makes his G12 team into G13 R6 characters. Old Ben's buffs were Never even close to this potent, and more importantly than anything else - it's been Very hard to force your opponent to kill Ben 1st. Very hard.
Fives sacrifices himself and gives all these buffs super easily - just by you killing Anyone on his team. You don't even have to get him attacked to give out these insane buffs.
Fundamentally better in every way.
Shaak ti leadership gives 15% max health 5% protection 15% offence to all galactic republic Ally's for each clone trooper ally .
+105k health
+100k protection
+5200 offence
+230 speed
@SylForge006 it gets better that's r4 g13 I can't imagine what happens at r7
Anyway, something is likely coming that will make this make more sense even though others have given arguments why it does already.
Makes sense, they're cheap to produce.
Because that would make the squad too OP honestly. Since rework, clone squads are out there successfully taking on both revans squads, the GG nukes and 'earnestly' competing throughout the game. They are officially one of the most powerful squads in the game RN. A couple months ago this was NOT the case. So clearly the rework has improved them so much that they're actually a viable late game option now.
Check it out though; if you were able to *revive* the countering, taunting, 'very' high health/prot tank - WHILE Rex and Echo are smashing down having been beefed up HARD; receiving a boost to ALL of their major stats (including *speed*!) Equal to 5s' start of battle numbers on top of their own. Essentially you've created two squad members who are both as powerful as *two* standalone squad members each. They deal two toons' damage and have 2 toons' health. They hit twice for one attack by every other toon in the game, having the speed of 2 fully modded toons in one. And at *least* one of these bad boy double stat toons is guaranteed to be at full health halfway through the fight. That's some MEAN ****, dude think about that. But now you can revive a taunting countering high constitution tank that those beast can hide behind?! Straight up. If you could revive 5s in this squad - it would be so immaculately overpowered that no one would ever be able to beat them period. The "standard" squad composition for clones would just literally be; Shaak Ti (L), 5s, Echo, Rex - and old daka or some other reviver. Consider how brutally nasty 5s zeta REALLY *IS* - like I've just laid out to you - and you can imagine how exponentially more powerful the squad would be if it were possible to bring that taunting counter attacker tank back to protect the others after the stat boost. And 5s isn't half a slouch in the taunting tank biz either, he's def one of the more efficient tanks in the game without question...