No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
No, my opinion isn't that this team was intended. The facts that I am passing on are that this wasn't an unintended interaction (a tm loop) and the devs knew that would be the case.
They've made millions of mistakes, but only call tm loops unintended interactions. This conversation started because I argued against this team being an unintended interaction.
So you can persevere on the term foresaw all you want, but that just makes your arguments misleading and slightly underhanded.
TM loop is what devs have always been watching droids for, by their own words (this is no opinion).
TM loop is the only thing that devs have ever called an unintended interaction (this is a fact).
TM loop is at the core of what I have been talking about, you can't ignore it and claim you're still arguing against me.
Realistically it is you who is making an unsupported assumption in that if an interaction isn't an unintended one than it is intended, and if it was intended it was foreseen. So if it wasn't foreseen, it was unintended.
Intended doesn't mean they foresaw exactly what would happen, just that it fell within the perimeters they had allowed it to be in. They have no problem nerfing things that outperform expectations like they did to Finn after his rework, but they call that outperforming, not an unintended interaction.
So let me ask you: When do the devs NOT let us know something is outperforming their expectations in a bad way and they're going to change it? I haven't known them not to. If it was outperforming in a bad way, they'd let us know pretty quickly. How long has the nuke been around?
Is this my opinion? No. This is what has been spelled out for us. This is not an unintended interaction. As far as the facts so far go, it's not even outside their allowance for it in any way way whatsoever, since they have said nothing about it.
its like talking to a kid who thinks it knows eveything better.
I am out
Yeah you jumped on a supporting statement I was using to debunk someone else's logical fallacy like it was my main point and then became frustrated I didn't change my argument to suit your misinterpretation of it and then accuse me of being the one acting like a little kid...
Thanks for saying hi!
FINAL EDIT: If someone was to tell me the team was outperforming expectations in a bad way, I'd take that as an opinion since it is, at best, an exaggeration. But saying it is an unintended interaction is just plain wrong, and I don't like misinformation being spread.
Zfinn, JKA/NS, those were obviously unintended interactions. Do you know how they got by?
They are cross faction interactions.
GG Nuke team is same faction interaction. Droids balance has been watched with a fine tooth comb for years because of HK (by their own words) who didn't get reworked until all of the other reworks had been in place. They straight up said they knew what g13 would bring when they reworked GG which is why he was lackluster back then.
They would have had to have been completely blind to anything to not foresee this team working this way. I'm sure they did, and they won't do anything because there is nothing game breaking about it.
Do you know that's actually when people started running this team? When GG got reworked.... before DR. It just wasn't effective until g13.
There's no way they didn't foresee people running these teams that were the very first go to composition with droids that every droid fanatic was trying after the sep droids faction pass and HK's rework.
I absolutely disagree.
when cg released drevan/malak they didnt see something obvious like
palp lead gaining tons of turnmeter and palp was partly meta at that time if I remember correctly.
so they build some anti palp lead into malak after releasing malak.
and you really think they expected a team like ig 88 lead with t3, gg and bb8 to start with turnmeter ?
when they are not able to foresee a palp lead gaining tm from debuffs ?
very far fetched, but like I said, everyone has their right to their own opinion
Devs planned the droid future very carefully. It's not like these other faction reworks where the faction was untouched for years and then they get completely redone. No droids had fresh member regularly. Every interaction with them was went over by a fine tooth comb. They knew that whatever would come of these reworks would not be problematic.
They would not be "unintended interactions", which is CG speak for TM loop, and there isn't. So yes, they absolutely had the foresight to see how all these things would work well enough to not have any unintended interactions out of it.
As we can all see, there isn't any sort of TM loop involved in the GG Nuke team like there was in teams that had unintended interactions. So, not really an opinion when I say, not an unintended interaction. Devs had the foresight to see there wouldn't be one when they did the droid reworks.
youv have your opinion, I have my opinion
and what you are saying is just your opinion
So you think it's just my opinion there's no tm loop in there?
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically or make a change (which I don't think they will), whether or not it was "intended" is a moot point.
However, considering that GG's Metaloid Monstrosity zeta ability is specifically designed to do two things:
1) Damage his own droid team
2) Have him get bonus turns when they are defeated
It's more difficult to presume they didn't foresee this type of interaction - since that's pretty much what his kit is designed to do. That is, as his team dies around him (sacrificially, btw - as indicated by the fact that he marks a teammate when he is below 100% health), he goes into beast mode and gets stronger and stronger.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Zfinn, JKA/NS, those were obviously unintended interactions. Do you know how they got by?
They are cross faction interactions.
GG Nuke team is same faction interaction. Droids balance has been watched with a fine tooth comb for years because of HK (by their own words) who didn't get reworked until all of the other reworks had been in place. They straight up said they knew what g13 would bring when they reworked GG which is why he was lackluster back then.
They would have had to have been completely blind to anything to not foresee this team working this way. I'm sure they did, and they won't do anything because there is nothing game breaking about it.
Do you know that's actually when people started running this team? When GG got reworked.... before DR. It just wasn't effective until g13.
There's no way they didn't foresee people running these teams that were the very first go to composition with droids that every droid fanatic was trying after the sep droids faction pass and HK's rework.
I absolutely disagree.
when cg released drevan/malak they didnt see something obvious like
palp lead gaining tons of turnmeter and palp was partly meta at that time if I remember correctly.
so they build some anti palp lead into malak after releasing malak.
and you really think they expected a team like ig 88 lead with t3, gg and bb8 to start with turnmeter ?
when they are not able to foresee a palp lead gaining tm from debuffs ?
very far fetched, but like I said, everyone has their right to their own opinion
Devs planned the droid future very carefully. It's not like these other faction reworks where the faction was untouched for years and then they get completely redone. No droids had fresh member regularly. Every interaction with them was went over by a fine tooth comb. They knew that whatever would come of these reworks would not be problematic.
They would not be "unintended interactions", which is CG speak for TM loop, and there isn't. So yes, they absolutely had the foresight to see how all these things would work well enough to not have any unintended interactions out of it.
As we can all see, there isn't any sort of TM loop involved in the GG Nuke team like there was in teams that had unintended interactions. So, not really an opinion when I say, not an unintended interaction. Devs had the foresight to see there wouldn't be one when they did the droid reworks.
youv have your opinion, I have my opinion
and what you are saying is just your opinion
So you think it's just my opinion there's no tm loop in there?
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically
Zfinn, JKA/NS, those were obviously unintended interactions. Do you know how they got by?
They are cross faction interactions.
GG Nuke team is same faction interaction. Droids balance has been watched with a fine tooth comb for years because of HK (by their own words) who didn't get reworked until all of the other reworks had been in place. They straight up said they knew what g13 would bring when they reworked GG which is why he was lackluster back then.
They would have had to have been completely blind to anything to not foresee this team working this way. I'm sure they did, and they won't do anything because there is nothing game breaking about it.
Do you know that's actually when people started running this team? When GG got reworked.... before DR. It just wasn't effective until g13.
There's no way they didn't foresee people running these teams that were the very first go to composition with droids that every droid fanatic was trying after the sep droids faction pass and HK's rework.
I absolutely disagree.
when cg released drevan/malak they didnt see something obvious like
palp lead gaining tons of turnmeter and palp was partly meta at that time if I remember correctly.
so they build some anti palp lead into malak after releasing malak.
and you really think they expected a team like ig 88 lead with t3, gg and bb8 to start with turnmeter ?
when they are not able to foresee a palp lead gaining tm from debuffs ?
very far fetched, but like I said, everyone has their right to their own opinion
Devs planned the droid future very carefully. It's not like these other faction reworks where the faction was untouched for years and then they get completely redone. No droids had fresh member regularly. Every interaction with them was went over by a fine tooth comb. They knew that whatever would come of these reworks would not be problematic.
They would not be "unintended interactions", which is CG speak for TM loop, and there isn't. So yes, they absolutely had the foresight to see how all these things would work well enough to not have any unintended interactions out of it.
As we can all see, there isn't any sort of TM loop involved in the GG Nuke team like there was in teams that had unintended interactions. So, not really an opinion when I say, not an unintended interaction. Devs had the foresight to see there wouldn't be one when they did the droid reworks.
youv have your opinion, I have my opinion
and what you are saying is just your opinion
So you think it's just my opinion there's no tm loop in there?
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically or make a change (which I don't think they will), whether or not it was "intended" is a moot point.
However, considering that GG's Metaloid Monstrosity zeta ability is specifically designed to do two things:
1) Damage his own droid team
2) Have him get bonus turns when they are defeated
It's more difficult to presume they didn't foresee this type of interaction - since that's pretty much what his kit is designed to do. That is, as his team dies around him (sacrificially, btw - as indicated by the fact that he marks a teammate when he is below 100% health), he goes into beast mode and gets stronger and stronger.
I agree. I would also note that if they were planning a nerf, they likely would have said something by now.
Had the team been this good 6 months ago, it likely would have been nerfed. After all can't have a hard counter to a brand new meta. But malak is returning for the 3rd time and I see the gg nuke team as more likely a planned counter to get some panic gearing out of sone whales for gac before the meta shifts rather than a mistake.
In either case, you can be sure that the next meta will have a way to negate the high dmg attacks from gg and jka.
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
No, my opinion isn't that this team was intended. The facts that I am passing on are that this wasn't an unintended interaction (a tm loop) and the devs knew that would be the case.
They've made millions of mistakes, but only call tm loops unintended interactions. This conversation started because I argued against this team being an unintended interaction.
So you can persevere on the term foresaw all you want, but that just makes your arguments misleading and slightly underhanded.
TM loop is what devs have always been watching droids for, by their own words (this is no opinion).
TM loop is the only thing that devs have ever called an unintended interaction (this is a fact).
TM loop is at the core of what I have been talking about, you can't ignore it and claim you're still arguing against me.
Realistically it is you who is making an unsupported assumption in that if an interaction isn't an unintended one than it is intended, and if it was intended it was foreseen. So if it wasn't foreseen, it was unintended.
Intended doesn't mean they foresaw exactly what would happen, just that it fell within the perimeters they had allowed it to be in. They have no problem nerfing things that outperform expectations like they did to Finn after his rework, but they call that outperforming, not an unintended interaction.
So let me ask you: When do the devs NOT let us know something is outperforming their expectations in a bad way and they're going to change it? I haven't known them not to. If it was outperforming in a bad way, they'd let us know pretty quickly. How long has the nuke been around?
Is this my opinion? No. This is what has been spelled out for us. This is not an unintended interaction. As far as the facts so far go, it's not even outside their allowance for it in any way way whatsoever, since they have said nothing about it.
its like talking to a kid who thinks it knows eveything better.
I am out
Yeah you jumped on a supporting statement I was using to debunk someone else's logical fallacy like it was my main point and then became frustrated I didn't change my argument to suit your misinterpretation of it and then accuse me of being the one acting like a little kid...
Thanks for saying hi!
FINAL EDIT: If someone was to tell me the team was outperforming expectations in a bad way, I'd take that as an opinion since it is, at best, an exaggeration. But saying it is an unintended interaction is just plain wrong, and I don't like misinformation being spread.
First off maybe calm down? second what are you even talking about? You have just gone off on some random point about unintended interactions being classified as tm loops? I’m saying this team was not foreseen it was theorycrafted by players and that’s why you’re seeing a low gear random a$$ team compete with the far and away best team the game has ever seen. I still don’t understand. Are you saying that’s not true or making some other point?
Zfinn, JKA/NS, those were obviously unintended interactions. Do you know how they got by?
They are cross faction interactions.
GG Nuke team is same faction interaction. Droids balance has been watched with a fine tooth comb for years because of HK (by their own words) who didn't get reworked until all of the other reworks had been in place. They straight up said they knew what g13 would bring when they reworked GG which is why he was lackluster back then.
They would have had to have been completely blind to anything to not foresee this team working this way. I'm sure they did, and they won't do anything because there is nothing game breaking about it.
Do you know that's actually when people started running this team? When GG got reworked.... before DR. It just wasn't effective until g13.
There's no way they didn't foresee people running these teams that were the very first go to composition with droids that every droid fanatic was trying after the sep droids faction pass and HK's rework.
I absolutely disagree.
when cg released drevan/malak they didnt see something obvious like
palp lead gaining tons of turnmeter and palp was partly meta at that time if I remember correctly.
so they build some anti palp lead into malak after releasing malak.
and you really think they expected a team like ig 88 lead with t3, gg and bb8 to start with turnmeter ?
when they are not able to foresee a palp lead gaining tm from debuffs ?
very far fetched, but like I said, everyone has their right to their own opinion
Devs planned the droid future very carefully. It's not like these other faction reworks where the faction was untouched for years and then they get completely redone. No droids had fresh member regularly. Every interaction with them was went over by a fine tooth comb. They knew that whatever would come of these reworks would not be problematic.
They would not be "unintended interactions", which is CG speak for TM loop, and there isn't. So yes, they absolutely had the foresight to see how all these things would work well enough to not have any unintended interactions out of it.
As we can all see, there isn't any sort of TM loop involved in the GG Nuke team like there was in teams that had unintended interactions. So, not really an opinion when I say, not an unintended interaction. Devs had the foresight to see there wouldn't be one when they did the droid reworks.
youv have your opinion, I have my opinion
and what you are saying is just your opinion
So you think it's just my opinion there's no tm loop in there?
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically or make a change (which I don't think they will), whether or not it was "intended" is a moot point.
However, considering that GG's Metaloid Monstrosity zeta ability is specifically designed to do two things:
1) Damage his own droid team
2) Have him get bonus turns when they are defeated
It's more difficult to presume they didn't foresee this type of interaction - since that's pretty much what his kit is designed to do. That is, as his team dies around him (sacrificially, btw - as indicated by the fact that he marks a teammate when he is below 100% health), he goes into beast mode and gets stronger and stronger.
So We have no idea but then you argue that it was probly all foreseen and intended? I have a good idea and think it’s pretty obvious that it wasn’t intended. You obviously think differently. That’s fine I’m just saying what I think has happened.
And it’s not a moot point at all. Are they fully in control of metas and arena generally, or is the whole game of character kits beyond their control.
I honestly think it’s actually farfetched to say anyone could be in control of a game like this where you have to balance hundreds of character kits, release them over time at intervals that keep people engaged, create new content that is balanced to different power levels at different times, I could keep going on and on as to why a game like this is so hard to keep control of. And that is why power creeps, things just get stronger because it’s hard (and not necessarily in the interest of making money) to properly balance the game over time.
Things crop up, and that is why we have a random a$$ team of a bounty hunter droid an old republic droid a resistance droid and an empire droid exploiting a kit of a separatist droid who is good in the team because he gets a turn whenever a droid dies and has the highest damage output in the game wiping characters out in one. There are no tactics here, just OP damage cheese, and I’m no expert on it but as far as I can see the anakin team is in the same ilk. Yes it’s all very fun wiping the best team in the game out in one, but it’s not good healthy mechanics.
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
No, my opinion isn't that this team was intended. The facts that I am passing on are that this wasn't an unintended interaction (a tm loop) and the devs knew that would be the case.
They've made millions of mistakes, but only call tm loops unintended interactions. This conversation started because I argued against this team being an unintended interaction.
So you can persevere on the term foresaw all you want, but that just makes your arguments misleading and slightly underhanded.
TM loop is what devs have always been watching droids for, by their own words (this is no opinion).
TM loop is the only thing that devs have ever called an unintended interaction (this is a fact).
TM loop is at the core of what I have been talking about, you can't ignore it and claim you're still arguing against me.
Realistically it is you who is making an unsupported assumption in that if an interaction isn't an unintended one than it is intended, and if it was intended it was foreseen. So if it wasn't foreseen, it was unintended.
Intended doesn't mean they foresaw exactly what would happen, just that it fell within the perimeters they had allowed it to be in. They have no problem nerfing things that outperform expectations like they did to Finn after his rework, but they call that outperforming, not an unintended interaction.
So let me ask you: When do the devs NOT let us know something is outperforming their expectations in a bad way and they're going to change it? I haven't known them not to. If it was outperforming in a bad way, they'd let us know pretty quickly. How long has the nuke been around?
Is this my opinion? No. This is what has been spelled out for us. This is not an unintended interaction. As far as the facts so far go, it's not even outside their allowance for it in any way way whatsoever, since they have said nothing about it.
its like talking to a kid who thinks it knows eveything better.
I am out
Yeah you jumped on a supporting statement I was using to debunk someone else's logical fallacy like it was my main point and then became frustrated I didn't change my argument to suit your misinterpretation of it and then accuse me of being the one acting like a little kid...
Thanks for saying hi!
FINAL EDIT: If someone was to tell me the team was outperforming expectations in a bad way, I'd take that as an opinion since it is, at best, an exaggeration. But saying it is an unintended interaction is just plain wrong, and I don't like misinformation being spread.
First off maybe calm down? second what are you even talking about? You have just gone off on some random point about unintended interactions being classified as tm loops? I’m saying this team was not foreseen it was theorycrafted by players and that’s why you’re seeing a low gear random a$$ team compete with the far and away best team the game has ever seen. I still don’t understand. Are you saying that’s not true or making some other point?
Zfinn, JKA/NS, those were obviously unintended interactions. Do you know how they got by?
They are cross faction interactions.
GG Nuke team is same faction interaction. Droids balance has been watched with a fine tooth comb for years because of HK (by their own words) who didn't get reworked until all of the other reworks had been in place. They straight up said they knew what g13 would bring when they reworked GG which is why he was lackluster back then.
They would have had to have been completely blind to anything to not foresee this team working this way. I'm sure they did, and they won't do anything because there is nothing game breaking about it.
Do you know that's actually when people started running this team? When GG got reworked.... before DR. It just wasn't effective until g13.
There's no way they didn't foresee people running these teams that were the very first go to composition with droids that every droid fanatic was trying after the sep droids faction pass and HK's rework.
I absolutely disagree.
when cg released drevan/malak they didnt see something obvious like
palp lead gaining tons of turnmeter and palp was partly meta at that time if I remember correctly.
so they build some anti palp lead into malak after releasing malak.
and you really think they expected a team like ig 88 lead with t3, gg and bb8 to start with turnmeter ?
when they are not able to foresee a palp lead gaining tm from debuffs ?
very far fetched, but like I said, everyone has their right to their own opinion
Devs planned the droid future very carefully. It's not like these other faction reworks where the faction was untouched for years and then they get completely redone. No droids had fresh member regularly. Every interaction with them was went over by a fine tooth comb. They knew that whatever would come of these reworks would not be problematic.
They would not be "unintended interactions", which is CG speak for TM loop, and there isn't. So yes, they absolutely had the foresight to see how all these things would work well enough to not have any unintended interactions out of it.
As we can all see, there isn't any sort of TM loop involved in the GG Nuke team like there was in teams that had unintended interactions. So, not really an opinion when I say, not an unintended interaction. Devs had the foresight to see there wouldn't be one when they did the droid reworks.
youv have your opinion, I have my opinion
and what you are saying is just your opinion
So you think it's just my opinion there's no tm loop in there?
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically or make a change (which I don't think they will), whether or not it was "intended" is a moot point.
However, considering that GG's Metaloid Monstrosity zeta ability is specifically designed to do two things:
1) Damage his own droid team
2) Have him get bonus turns when they are defeated
It's more difficult to presume they didn't foresee this type of interaction - since that's pretty much what his kit is designed to do. That is, as his team dies around him (sacrificially, btw - as indicated by the fact that he marks a teammate when he is below 100% health), he goes into beast mode and gets stronger and stronger.
So We have no idea but then you argue that it was probly all foreseen and intended? I have a good idea and think it’s pretty obvious that it wasn’t intended. You obviously think differently. That’s fine I’m just saying what I think has happened.
And it’s not a moot point at all. Are they fully in control of metas and arena generally, or is the whole game of character kits beyond their control.
I honestly think it’s actually farfetched to say anyone could be in control of a game like this where you have to balance hundreds of character kits, release them over time at intervals that keep people engaged, create new content that is balanced to different power levels at different times, I could keep going on and on as to why a game like this is so hard to keep control of. And that is why power creeps, things just get stronger because it’s hard (and not necessarily in the interest of making money) to properly balance the game over time.
Things crop up, and that is why we have a random a$$ team of a bounty hunter droid an old republic droid a resistance droid and an empire droid exploiting a kit of a separatist droid who is good in the team because he gets a turn whenever a droid dies and has the highest damage output in the game wiping characters out in one. There are no tactics here, just OP damage cheese, and I’m no expert on it but as far as I can see the anakin team is in the same ilk. Yes it’s all very fun wiping the best team in the game out in one, but it’s not good healthy mechanics.
Whether they planed the gg nuke version or not is not really relevant.
The relevant part is whether they believe it is ok to keep as is. And based on no mention of nerfs or even looking into it, my guess is that it will continue for the following reasons.
1. The malak meta is old by now so they don't care if something beats it.
2. The team is actually pretty easy to beat on offense and has several counters of it's own so it's not like you get a new ftp meta out of it.
I think if either of those went the other way, it would be nerfed. But they don't so they will allow it whether it was intended or not.
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
No, my opinion isn't that this team was intended. The facts that I am passing on are that this wasn't an unintended interaction (a tm loop) and the devs knew that would be the case.
They've made millions of mistakes, but only call tm loops unintended interactions. This conversation started because I argued against this team being an unintended interaction.
So you can persevere on the term foresaw all you want, but that just makes your arguments misleading and slightly underhanded.
TM loop is what devs have always been watching droids for, by their own words (this is no opinion).
TM loop is the only thing that devs have ever called an unintended interaction (this is a fact).
TM loop is at the core of what I have been talking about, you can't ignore it and claim you're still arguing against me.
Realistically it is you who is making an unsupported assumption in that if an interaction isn't an unintended one than it is intended, and if it was intended it was foreseen. So if it wasn't foreseen, it was unintended.
Intended doesn't mean they foresaw exactly what would happen, just that it fell within the perimeters they had allowed it to be in. They have no problem nerfing things that outperform expectations like they did to Finn after his rework, but they call that outperforming, not an unintended interaction.
So let me ask you: When do the devs NOT let us know something is outperforming their expectations in a bad way and they're going to change it? I haven't known them not to. If it was outperforming in a bad way, they'd let us know pretty quickly. How long has the nuke been around?
Is this my opinion? No. This is what has been spelled out for us. This is not an unintended interaction. As far as the facts so far go, it's not even outside their allowance for it in any way way whatsoever, since they have said nothing about it.
its like talking to a kid who thinks it knows eveything better.
I am out
Yeah you jumped on a supporting statement I was using to debunk someone else's logical fallacy like it was my main point and then became frustrated I didn't change my argument to suit your misinterpretation of it and then accuse me of being the one acting like a little kid...
Thanks for saying hi!
FINAL EDIT: If someone was to tell me the team was outperforming expectations in a bad way, I'd take that as an opinion since it is, at best, an exaggeration. But saying it is an unintended interaction is just plain wrong, and I don't like misinformation being spread.
First off maybe calm down? second what are you even talking about? You have just gone off on some random point about unintended interactions being classified as tm loops? I’m saying this team was not foreseen it was theorycrafted by players and that’s why you’re seeing a low gear random a$$ team compete with the far and away best team the game has ever seen. I still don’t understand. Are you saying that’s not true or making some other point?
Zfinn, JKA/NS, those were obviously unintended interactions. Do you know how they got by?
They are cross faction interactions.
GG Nuke team is same faction interaction. Droids balance has been watched with a fine tooth comb for years because of HK (by their own words) who didn't get reworked until all of the other reworks had been in place. They straight up said they knew what g13 would bring when they reworked GG which is why he was lackluster back then.
They would have had to have been completely blind to anything to not foresee this team working this way. I'm sure they did, and they won't do anything because there is nothing game breaking about it.
Do you know that's actually when people started running this team? When GG got reworked.... before DR. It just wasn't effective until g13.
There's no way they didn't foresee people running these teams that were the very first go to composition with droids that every droid fanatic was trying after the sep droids faction pass and HK's rework.
I absolutely disagree.
when cg released drevan/malak they didnt see something obvious like
palp lead gaining tons of turnmeter and palp was partly meta at that time if I remember correctly.
so they build some anti palp lead into malak after releasing malak.
and you really think they expected a team like ig 88 lead with t3, gg and bb8 to start with turnmeter ?
when they are not able to foresee a palp lead gaining tm from debuffs ?
very far fetched, but like I said, everyone has their right to their own opinion
Devs planned the droid future very carefully. It's not like these other faction reworks where the faction was untouched for years and then they get completely redone. No droids had fresh member regularly. Every interaction with them was went over by a fine tooth comb. They knew that whatever would come of these reworks would not be problematic.
They would not be "unintended interactions", which is CG speak for TM loop, and there isn't. So yes, they absolutely had the foresight to see how all these things would work well enough to not have any unintended interactions out of it.
As we can all see, there isn't any sort of TM loop involved in the GG Nuke team like there was in teams that had unintended interactions. So, not really an opinion when I say, not an unintended interaction. Devs had the foresight to see there wouldn't be one when they did the droid reworks.
youv have your opinion, I have my opinion
and what you are saying is just your opinion
So you think it's just my opinion there's no tm loop in there?
No it’s your opinion that they foresaw this and the team is intended. Which by the way, is definitely wrong, dunno how you can’t see it. They’ve made a million mistakes, tm loops are just one
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically or make a change (which I don't think they will), whether or not it was "intended" is a moot point.
However, considering that GG's Metaloid Monstrosity zeta ability is specifically designed to do two things:
1) Damage his own droid team
2) Have him get bonus turns when they are defeated
It's more difficult to presume they didn't foresee this type of interaction - since that's pretty much what his kit is designed to do. That is, as his team dies around him (sacrificially, btw - as indicated by the fact that he marks a teammate when he is below 100% health), he goes into beast mode and gets stronger and stronger.
So We have no idea but then you argue that it was probly all foreseen and intended? I have a good idea and think it’s pretty obvious that it wasn’t intended. You obviously think differently. That’s fine I’m just saying what I think has happened.
And it’s not a moot point at all. Are they fully in control of metas and arena generally, or is the whole game of character kits beyond their control.
I honestly think it’s actually farfetched to say anyone could be in control of a game like this where you have to balance hundreds of character kits, release them over time at intervals that keep people engaged, create new content that is balanced to different power levels at different times, I could keep going on and on as to why a game like this is so hard to keep control of. And that is why power creeps, things just get stronger because it’s hard (and not necessarily in the interest of making money) to properly balance the game over time.
Things crop up, and that is why we have a random a$$ team of a bounty hunter droid an old republic droid a resistance droid and an empire droid exploiting a kit of a separatist droid who is good in the team because he gets a turn whenever a droid dies and has the highest damage output in the game wiping characters out in one. There are no tactics here, just OP damage cheese, and I’m no expert on it but as far as I can see the anakin team is in the same ilk. Yes it’s all very fun wiping the best team in the game out in one, but it’s not good healthy mechanics.
Whether they planed the gg nuke version or not is not really relevant.
The relevant part is whether they believe it is ok to keep as is. And based on no mention of nerfs or even looking into it, my guess is that it will continue for the following reasons.
1. The malak meta is old by now so they don't care if something beats it.
2. The team is actually pretty easy to beat on offense and has several counters of it's own so it's not like you get a new ftp meta out of it.
I think if either of those went the other way, it would be nerfed. But they don't so they will allow it whether it was intended or not.
They absolutely won’t and shouldn’t nerf it at this point. So pertaining to the thread subject it’s not relevant.
If it's easily beatable, how is balance a problem?
Read my comment before. Maybe game balance wasn’t the right term, my point is they are not in control of the meta and the game in general when an unintended team of low gear characters are beating the maxed out best team in the game, in the way they are beating them (damage, OHKO cheese, basically exploiting one ability)
If it's easily beatable, how is balance a problem?
Read my comment before. Maybe game balance wasn’t the right term, my point is they are not in control of the meta and the game in general when an unintended team of low gear characters are beating the maxed out best team in the game, in the way they are beating them (damage, OHKO cheese, basically exploiting one ability)
Read my comment before about Traya. There's been others too. They haven't all needed gear either. Magnatrooper exploited Sion's kit at lower gear.
I know I've said this before but people complain about a "stale" meta. Then other teams emerge, and other people complain it's "not fair." Lose-lose.
Malak meta has been plenty long, there's no reason for there to be no counters. And it doesn't matter if those counters were intended by the devs or not. It works, it's not cheating, it's fine.
There will be a new meta soon enough anyway (probably).
If it's easily beatable, how is balance a problem?
Read my comment before. Maybe game balance wasn’t the right term, my point is they are not in control of the meta and the game in general when an unintended team of low gear characters are beating the maxed out best team in the game, in the way they are beating them (damage, OHKO cheese, basically exploiting one ability)
If they were beating malak 4 months ago, I would agree with you and it would have been nerfed by now. Or malak would get a buff like negotiator gives followed by a bonus turn that lets him drain life.
But the meta is old enough that they either designed a counter or don't care if one cropped up.
If it's easily beatable, how is balance a problem?
Read my comment before. Maybe game balance wasn’t the right term, my point is they are not in control of the meta and the game in general when an unintended team of low gear characters are beating the maxed out best team in the game, in the way they are beating them (damage, OHKO cheese, basically exploiting one ability)
If they were beating malak 4 months ago, I would agree with you and it would have been nerfed by now. Or malak would get a buff like negotiator gives followed by a bonus turn that lets him drain life.
Absolutely. We saw it with EP when Malak first came out. You can bet that if EP counter was discovered today, they wouldn't do anything about it.
If it's easily beatable, how is balance a problem?
Read my comment before. Maybe game balance wasn’t the right term, my point is they are not in control of the meta and the game in general when an unintended team of low gear characters are beating the maxed out best team in the game, in the way they are beating them (damage, OHKO cheese, basically exploiting one ability)
If they were beating malak 4 months ago, I would agree with you and it would have been nerfed by now. Or malak would get a buff like negotiator gives followed by a bonus turn that lets him drain life.
Absolutely. We saw it with EP when Malak first came out. You can bet that if EP counter was discovered today, they wouldn't do anything about it.
Replies
No, my opinion isn't that this team was intended. The facts that I am passing on are that this wasn't an unintended interaction (a tm loop) and the devs knew that would be the case.
They've made millions of mistakes, but only call tm loops unintended interactions. This conversation started because I argued against this team being an unintended interaction.
So you can persevere on the term foresaw all you want, but that just makes your arguments misleading and slightly underhanded.
TM loop is what devs have always been watching droids for, by their own words (this is no opinion).
TM loop is the only thing that devs have ever called an unintended interaction (this is a fact).
TM loop is at the core of what I have been talking about, you can't ignore it and claim you're still arguing against me.
Realistically it is you who is making an unsupported assumption in that if an interaction isn't an unintended one than it is intended, and if it was intended it was foreseen. So if it wasn't foreseen, it was unintended.
Intended doesn't mean they foresaw exactly what would happen, just that it fell within the perimeters they had allowed it to be in. They have no problem nerfing things that outperform expectations like they did to Finn after his rework, but they call that outperforming, not an unintended interaction.
So let me ask you: When do the devs NOT let us know something is outperforming their expectations in a bad way and they're going to change it? I haven't known them not to. If it was outperforming in a bad way, they'd let us know pretty quickly. How long has the nuke been around?
Is this my opinion? No. This is what has been spelled out for us. This is not an unintended interaction. As far as the facts so far go, it's not even outside their allowance for it in any way way whatsoever, since they have said nothing about it. Exactly my point. This doesn't classify as what devs call an unintended interaction. Yeah you jumped on a supporting statement I was using to debunk someone else's logical fallacy like it was my main point and then became frustrated I didn't change my argument to suit your misinterpretation of it and then accuse me of being the one acting like a little kid...
Thanks for saying hi!
FINAL EDIT: If someone was to tell me the team was outperforming expectations in a bad way, I'd take that as an opinion since it is, at best, an exaggeration. But saying it is an unintended interaction is just plain wrong, and I don't like misinformation being spread.
You misused the word "definitely". You have no idea - none of us does. Unless the devs come out and state specifically or make a change (which I don't think they will), whether or not it was "intended" is a moot point.
However, considering that GG's Metaloid Monstrosity zeta ability is specifically designed to do two things:
1) Damage his own droid team
2) Have him get bonus turns when they are defeated
It's more difficult to presume they didn't foresee this type of interaction - since that's pretty much what his kit is designed to do. That is, as his team dies around him (sacrificially, btw - as indicated by the fact that he marks a teammate when he is below 100% health), he goes into beast mode and gets stronger and stronger.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Even then we don't really know for sure lol.
I agree. I would also note that if they were planning a nerf, they likely would have said something by now.
Had the team been this good 6 months ago, it likely would have been nerfed. After all can't have a hard counter to a brand new meta. But malak is returning for the 3rd time and I see the gg nuke team as more likely a planned counter to get some panic gearing out of sone whales for gac before the meta shifts rather than a mistake.
In either case, you can be sure that the next meta will have a way to negate the high dmg attacks from gg and jka.
First off maybe calm down? second what are you even talking about? You have just gone off on some random point about unintended interactions being classified as tm loops? I’m saying this team was not foreseen it was theorycrafted by players and that’s why you’re seeing a low gear random a$$ team compete with the far and away best team the game has ever seen. I still don’t understand. Are you saying that’s not true or making some other point?
So We have no idea but then you argue that it was probly all foreseen and intended? I have a good idea and think it’s pretty obvious that it wasn’t intended. You obviously think differently. That’s fine I’m just saying what I think has happened.
And it’s not a moot point at all. Are they fully in control of metas and arena generally, or is the whole game of character kits beyond their control.
I honestly think it’s actually farfetched to say anyone could be in control of a game like this where you have to balance hundreds of character kits, release them over time at intervals that keep people engaged, create new content that is balanced to different power levels at different times, I could keep going on and on as to why a game like this is so hard to keep control of. And that is why power creeps, things just get stronger because it’s hard (and not necessarily in the interest of making money) to properly balance the game over time.
Things crop up, and that is why we have a random a$$ team of a bounty hunter droid an old republic droid a resistance droid and an empire droid exploiting a kit of a separatist droid who is good in the team because he gets a turn whenever a droid dies and has the highest damage output in the game wiping characters out in one. There are no tactics here, just OP damage cheese, and I’m no expert on it but as far as I can see the anakin team is in the same ilk. Yes it’s all very fun wiping the best team in the game out in one, but it’s not good healthy mechanics.
Whether they planed the gg nuke version or not is not really relevant.
The relevant part is whether they believe it is ok to keep as is. And based on no mention of nerfs or even looking into it, my guess is that it will continue for the following reasons.
1. The malak meta is old by now so they don't care if something beats it.
2. The team is actually pretty easy to beat on offense and has several counters of it's own so it's not like you get a new ftp meta out of it.
I think if either of those went the other way, it would be nerfed. But they don't so they will allow it whether it was intended or not.
They absolutely won’t and shouldn’t nerf it at this point. So pertaining to the thread subject it’s not relevant.
But with regards to game balance it’s important.
I second that. I don't see where the team causes balance problems.
Read my comment before. Maybe game balance wasn’t the right term, my point is they are not in control of the meta and the game in general when an unintended team of low gear characters are beating the maxed out best team in the game, in the way they are beating them (damage, OHKO cheese, basically exploiting one ability)
Read my comment before about Traya. There's been others too. They haven't all needed gear either. Magnatrooper exploited Sion's kit at lower gear.
I know I've said this before but people complain about a "stale" meta. Then other teams emerge, and other people complain it's "not fair." Lose-lose.
Malak meta has been plenty long, there's no reason for there to be no counters. And it doesn't matter if those counters were intended by the devs or not. It works, it's not cheating, it's fine.
There will be a new meta soon enough anyway (probably).
If they were beating malak 4 months ago, I would agree with you and it would have been nerfed by now. Or malak would get a buff like negotiator gives followed by a bonus turn that lets him drain life.
But the meta is old enough that they either designed a counter or don't care if one cropped up.
Which it actually is isn't all that important.
Absolutely. We saw it with EP when Malak first came out. You can bet that if EP counter was discovered today, they wouldn't do anything about it.
Especially if it required relics to work.