Why does it even matter if a guild deliberately games the system or not when the outcome is an unfair matchup in both cases? The entire "is sandbagging a real thing, Y/N" tangent is utterly pointless. Match guilds by total GP, problem solved. If officers can't whip their members into joining, the guild doesn't deserve a win against a better organized one.
Guild member 1: I’m on a long-haul flight during next TW, so I won’t signup.
Guild member 2: It’s my wedding this weekend, so I’m not going to signup for TW.
Guild member 3: I’m running an Ultra Marathon at the weekend so I won’t signup for TW.
Guild member 4: My grandmother is really sick. Me and the family are keeping a bedside vigil so I won’t signup for TW.
Guild member 5: I have a really important exam on Monday, and I need to study all weekend so I’m not going to signup for TW.
Officers: man we are SO disorganised! Let’s whip those guys into shape!
The match guilds by total GP argument is short-sighted.
Yes, matchmaking should be taking account of how many signup as well as active GP. But matching on total GP does not solve the problem. It creates a new one.
If you truly are in a guild with 49 other people who have never had something crop up in real life that means signing up for TW makes them a deadweight @Darth_DeVito , then hats off to you.
I wonder though, how often your guild’s officers are disappointed with a handful of members who contribute little or nothing at all?
Making people signup when their ability to check TW regularly is limited is NOT good leadership. Changing the matchmaking to account only for total GP would be a backward step.
If this is what happens in the vast majority of guilds, matchmaking by total GP shouldn't be a problem. Why shouldn't guilds who are less casual and more involved have an advantage?
My guild is 49/50 with 217M GP. We’re gettinf 28* in GeoTB. Does that sound casual?
TW is optional. This time 47/49 signed up.
Matching on total GP is NOT the solution.
If you go into TW with 47 members, I still don't see the problem. Like you said yourself, we currently have people who join for the rewards and fail to contribute, so there's dead weight either way and guild officers will eventually have to kick regular slackers in either scenario.
Besides, if someone can't find the time to participate in the attack phase, why not have them put their entire roster on defense? Placing defense takes 10 minutes. Someone who can't log in for 10 mins during their business or holiday trip or whatever can't make tickets either and has no place in any but the most casual of guilds.
The point is, that many guilds made TW optional, and that works for them.
Also, I believe more guilds do this than sandbag with the sole purpose of gaining an advantage (yes, that's only an assumption)
And my point is that guilds shouldn't be rewarded for having less participation.
Feel free to have your oppinion on that. I'm not arguing with this with you. I'm arguing with your silly statement here:
Besides, if someone can't find the time to participate in the attack phase, why not have them put their entire roster on defense? Placing defense takes 10 minutes. Someone who can't log in for 10 mins during their business or holiday trip or whatever can't make tickets either and has no place in any but the most casual of guilds.
Could matchmaking be improved? Yes. Do we, as players, have the necessary data to determine how those improvements could and/or should be made? Probably not. Is everyone ever going to be happy with TW matchmaking? No. We've been arguing and complaining about TW matchmaking pretty much since it was released, the only thing even new to the conversation is relics.
You win some and you lose some, that's just how it works. You can't control the matchmaking algorithm--and coming to the forums and acting like you're being personally attacked by it is just silly--and you can't control the opposing guild--and acting like there's this pandemic of guilds deliberately avoiding full sign ups just for an easier match is ridiculous--but you can control your strategy, I'd suggest adjusting it until you get somewhere. Encourage your guild to optimize their mods, try traps, try a thin front-line defense (your best teams in the front two territories, B-teams in the two behind, and trash in everything else, giving you more teams to attack with).
And what's with all this totalitarian ****? I, for one, am not going to bother chasing down everyone in my guild just to make sure they're all signed up for TW--I've got better things to do with my time; I respect that they're adults and don't need their hands held, they get a friendly all caps reminder in the banner--and my guild doesn't deserve to be punished because we don't always have 100% participation. If your first instinct is to control other people just because you feel like you're getting shafted, well, I've got news for you buddy budding Dictator.
Also, none of this is to say that there's anything wrong with "hey, I think something's wrong with this. Devbro can you take a look at this and maybe consider tweaking it?" but all this hysteria is a bit... overwrought?
Another wonderful draw. 196M GP vs 225M GP
So why are we trying to develop purposefully so that a much bigger team will come and skip a few members just to say they have won again? Is that really okay?
It’s now but you have guys that basically ignore that because they can’t actually play a straight up 50/50 matchup. Whether their guild has lack of leadership, doesn’t use Discord, lack of follow up or what have you, they simply can’t beat 50/50 matchups?
What is the alternative? Of course dropping their weakest members and going against guilds with barely anything unlocked and being able to beat a guild of 50 with a guild of 40 but much stronger rosters.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t. Not sure how hard it is for you to realize this hurts less GP guilds. Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how you are hurting other guilds? Either one is bad. Stop defending.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t. Not sure how hard it is for you to realize this hurts less GP guilds. Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how you are hurting other guilds? Either one is bad. Stop defending.
You’ve identified the best solution to the issue, but you’d still prefer changing it to a system that hurts some guilds?
Changing matchmaking to total GP when a more equitable system has been identified is spiteful and nonsensical.
Any1 knows what tool did the OP use to do the guild comparison?
I don't know, but there's an obvious error in the Total Relics count - it's way higher than the sum of the individual relic tiers and the g13 count. Calls into question how accurate the rest of the stats are.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t.
I disagree with your opinion on what's ethical and unethical. No matter how the matchmaking is performed:
There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
In your own words:
I'm not sure how hard it is for you to realize this.
Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how disliking the game mode or not being able to play it is perfectly normal and fine?
Any1 knows what tool did the OP use to do the guild comparison?
I don't know, but there's an obvious error in the Total Relics count - it's way higher than the sum of the individual relic tiers and the g13 count. Calls into question how accurate the rest of the stats are.
The numbers match fine. One guild has a total of 153 characters with relics and 154 g13 characters. The other guild has 522 characters with relics and 526 g13 characters.
Total Relics count is the total amount of relic levels. A tier 7 relic is weighted by 7 in that sum, a tier 6 relic is weighted by 6 etc.
I believe it's just a matter of reading the numbers right.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t.
I disagree with your opinion on what's ethical and unethical. No matter how the matchmaking is performed:
There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
In your own words:
I'm not sure how hard it is for you to realize this.
Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how disliking the game mode or not being able to play it is perfectly normal and fine?
I’m in a top 10 guild in the world so honestly it doesn’t affect me. But it does hurt my friends that play this game and get sandbagged. And it ticks me off.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t. Not sure how hard it is for you to realize this hurts less GP guilds. Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how you are hurting other guilds? Either one is bad. Stop defending.
You’ve identified the best solution to the issue, but you’d still prefer changing it to a system that hurts some guilds?
Changing matchmaking to total GP when a more equitable system has been identified is spiteful and nonsensical.
I’ll give you some props since you may be sarcastic but you are sensible. I am not a fan of total GP either. Active GP or joined GP I could get behind.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t. Not sure how hard it is for you to realize this hurts less GP guilds. Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how you are hurting other guilds? Either one is bad. Stop defending.
You’ve identified the best solution to the issue, but you’d still prefer changing it to a system that hurts some guilds?
Changing matchmaking to total GP when a more equitable system has been identified is spiteful and nonsensical.
I’ll give you some props since you may be sarcastic but you are sensible. I am not a fan of total GP either. Active GP or joined GP I could get behind.
I’m glad we agree on that.
I don’t enjoy TW when we’ve had 4 or 5 members miss out. They are finished swiftly and our opponent usually doesn’t stand a chance. But sometimes, just sometimes, we get an opponent with a similar number sitting out and we have a Great War.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t.
I disagree with your opinion on what's ethical and unethical. No matter how the matchmaking is performed:
There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
In your own words:
I'm not sure how hard it is for you to realize this.
Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how disliking the game mode or not being able to play it is perfectly normal and fine?
I’m in a top 10 guild in the world so honestly it doesn’t affect me. But it does hurt my friends that play this game and get sandbagged. And it ticks me off.
I guess, we all understood by now, that it ticks you off. However, that doesn't make not joining TW because you're absent or because you simply don't feel like it any more (or less) unethical.
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw. Also how ironic that your opponent was 165mil which is the lower end of the bracket thats barely above that highest reward zone.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw. Also how ironic that your opponent was 165mil which is the lower end of the bracket thats barely above that highest reward zone.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
Yes so they start to demand people to join, punching down 40mil and destroying a guild on autoplay is extremly demoralizing to the guild on the receiving end.
It's kinda hard to take you serious if you think banning people from TW if they opt to sit out for reasons unknown to you is a solid sollution the this problem.
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw. Also how ironic that your opponent was 165mil which is the lower end of the bracket thats barely above that highest reward zone.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
Yes so they start to demand people to join, punching down 40mil and destroying a guild on autoplay is extremly demoralizing to the guild on the receiving end.
People not joining a TW for many reason...for example
- just forget
- too busy
- taking a trip
- internet down
- cell phone broken
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw. Also how ironic that your opponent was 165mil which is the lower end of the bracket thats barely above that highest reward zone.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
Yes so they start to demand people to join, punching down 40mil and destroying a guild on autoplay is extremly demoralizing to the guild on the receiving end.
It's kinda hard to take you serious if you think banning people from TW if they opt to sit out for reasons unknown to you is a solid sollution the this problem.
Sorry but how do you know the reason?You dont. Okay another solution would be less rewards for sandbagging guilds and if they get beat while sandbagging, their entire reward goes to the lower gp guild.
I obviously don't know the reason either, that's why i won't assume ill intent and come up with ridiculous sollutions out of spite like you're doing.
In my humble opinion it's pretty obvious that the problem lies with matchmaking. Fix matchmaking so that sandbagging doesn't get you easy match-ups anymore and the problem is solved without "punishing" players/guilds who (for whatever reason other than wanting to get easy match-ups) don't always sign up with the full 50.
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw.
The minimum requirement is 25 participants. That's the rule in TW - wether you like it or not.
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw. Also how ironic that your opponent was 165mil which is the lower end of the bracket thats barely above that highest reward zone.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
Yes so they start to demand people to join, punching down 40mil and destroying a guild on autoplay is extremly demoralizing to the guild on the receiving end.
It's kinda hard to take you serious if you think banning people from TW if they opt to sit out for reasons unknown to you is a solid sollution the this problem.
Sorry but how do you know the reason?You dont. Okay another solution would be less rewards for sandbagging guilds and if they get beat while sandbagging, their entire reward goes to the lower gp guild.
I obviously don't know the reason either, that's why i won't assume ill intent and come up with ridiculous sollutions out of spite like you're doing.
In my humble opinion it's pretty obvious that the problem lies with matchmaking. Fix matchmaking so that sandbagging doesn't get you easy match-ups anymore and the problem is solved without "punishing" players/guilds who (for whatever reason other than wanting to get easy match-ups) don't always sign up with the full 50.
But thats not happening doesnt matter how many times its requested and sorry but try telling this to me who never faced a guild since the introduction of tw, thats not atleast 10-15million gp above us. And you can guess because of that i dont even have the 1st territory war win number achivement.
It's more likely to happen than both of your suggested sollutions, so yea...
Also, i highly doubt that "sandbagging" is the only reason you've yet to complete your first territory war win number achievement.
I'm an officer in a 207mil GP guild and we've ended up against a guild with 165mil GP. This was completely unintentional on our part as we do not force members to join TW, and on this occasion 11 chose not to for whatever reason. Usually we have 45/46 join in which case the matchups are much more even. I'm not sure how the devs could get around this but i'm just clarifying that guilds aren't necessarily doing this on purpose to get an easy win.
11 didnt join?Than your guild should have been kicked from this territory war to be honest and you should have received instead of a reward a temporary ban from tw. Also how ironic that your opponent was 165mil which is the lower end of the bracket thats barely above that highest reward zone.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
Yes so they start to demand people to join, punching down 40mil and destroying a guild on autoplay is extremly demoralizing to the guild on the receiving end.
It's kinda hard to take you serious if you think banning people from TW if they opt to sit out for reasons unknown to you is a solid sollution the this problem.
Sorry but how do you know the reason?You dont.
And neither do you. Maybe even @Robchee5e doesn't know. However, he knows that it wasn't intentional. It wasn't planned. It wasn't some strategic play from their side. It just happened.
Replies
Feel free to have your oppinion on that. I'm not arguing with this with you. I'm arguing with your silly statement here:
Could matchmaking be improved? Yes. Do we, as players, have the necessary data to determine how those improvements could and/or should be made? Probably not. Is everyone ever going to be happy with TW matchmaking? No. We've been arguing and complaining about TW matchmaking pretty much since it was released, the only thing even new to the conversation is relics.
You win some and you lose some, that's just how it works. You can't control the matchmaking algorithm--and coming to the forums and acting like you're being personally attacked by it is just silly--and you can't control the opposing guild--and acting like there's this pandemic of guilds deliberately avoiding full sign ups just for an easier match is ridiculous--but you can control your strategy, I'd suggest adjusting it until you get somewhere. Encourage your guild to optimize their mods, try traps, try a thin front-line defense (your best teams in the front two territories, B-teams in the two behind, and trash in everything else, giving you more teams to attack with).
And what's with all this totalitarian ****? I, for one, am not going to bother chasing down everyone in my guild just to make sure they're all signed up for TW--I've got better things to do with my time; I respect that they're adults and don't need their hands held, they get a friendly all caps reminder in the banner--and my guild doesn't deserve to be punished because we don't always have 100% participation. If your first instinct is to control other people just because you feel like you're getting shafted, well, I've got news for you buddy budding Dictator.
Also, none of this is to say that there's anything wrong with "hey, I think something's wrong with this. Devbro can you take a look at this and maybe consider tweaking it?" but all this hysteria is a bit... overwrought?
It’s now but you have guys that basically ignore that because they can’t actually play a straight up 50/50 matchup. Whether their guild has lack of leadership, doesn’t use Discord, lack of follow up or what have you, they simply can’t beat 50/50 matchups?
What is the alternative? Of course dropping their weakest members and going against guilds with barely anything unlocked and being able to beat a guild of 50 with a guild of 40 but much stronger rosters.
If you call them out on it they get salty and say “it’s part of the game” to deflect what they are doing is being unethical and using the system to get cheap wins.
Don't be so salty, now. There's nothing unethical in not signing up to TW because you don't like the game mode or because you'll be absent during TW.
It would be ethical if the game matched you against guilds with the same amount of active GP and players but it doesn’t. Not sure how hard it is for you to realize this hurts less GP guilds. Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how you are hurting other guilds? Either one is bad. Stop defending.
You’ve identified the best solution to the issue, but you’d still prefer changing it to a system that hurts some guilds?
Changing matchmaking to total GP when a more equitable system has been identified is spiteful and nonsensical.
That being said, the % of well matched TW is dropping. Blowouts on one side or the other are more common now.
It's probably not a major concern for the devs since TW is not a driving force behind panic farming and cash spending.
I don't know, but there's an obvious error in the Total Relics count - it's way higher than the sum of the individual relic tiers and the g13 count. Calls into question how accurate the rest of the stats are.
I disagree with your opinion on what's ethical and unethical. No matter how the matchmaking is performed:
In your own words:
I'm not sure how hard it is for you to realize this.
Like you can’t comprehend that or you just don’t want to think about how disliking the game mode or not being able to play it is perfectly normal and fine?
Stop being silly.
The numbers match fine. One guild has a total of 153 characters with relics and 154 g13 characters. The other guild has 522 characters with relics and 526 g13 characters.
Total Relics count is the total amount of relic levels. A tier 7 relic is weighted by 7 in that sum, a tier 6 relic is weighted by 6 etc.
I believe it's just a matter of reading the numbers right.
I’m in a top 10 guild in the world so honestly it doesn’t affect me. But it does hurt my friends that play this game and get sandbagged. And it ticks me off.
I’ll give you some props since you may be sarcastic but you are sensible. I am not a fan of total GP either. Active GP or joined GP I could get behind.
I don’t enjoy TW when we’ve had 4 or 5 members miss out. They are finished swiftly and our opponent usually doesn’t stand a chance. But sometimes, just sometimes, we get an opponent with a similar number sitting out and we have a Great War.
I wish they were all like that.
I guess, we all understood by now, that it ticks you off. However, that doesn't make not joining TW because you're absent or because you simply don't feel like it any more (or less) unethical.
So because 11 people don't join TW they should be temporary banned from TW? Are you having a laugh?
It's kinda hard to take you serious if you think banning people from TW if they opt to sit out for reasons unknown to you is a solid sollution the this problem.
People not joining a TW for many reason...for example
- just forget
- too busy
- taking a trip
- internet down
- cell phone broken
...etc
I obviously don't know the reason either, that's why i won't assume ill intent and come up with ridiculous sollutions out of spite like you're doing.
In my humble opinion it's pretty obvious that the problem lies with matchmaking. Fix matchmaking so that sandbagging doesn't get you easy match-ups anymore and the problem is solved without "punishing" players/guilds who (for whatever reason other than wanting to get easy match-ups) don't always sign up with the full 50.
The minimum requirement is 25 participants. That's the rule in TW - wether you like it or not.
It's more likely to happen than both of your suggested sollutions, so yea...
Also, i highly doubt that "sandbagging" is the only reason you've yet to complete your first territory war win number achievement.
And neither do you. Maybe even @Robchee5e doesn't know. However, he knows that it wasn't intentional. It wasn't planned. It wasn't some strategic play from their side. It just happened.