It's gonna be so bad 😭😫😭

Replies

  • Nihion
    3308 posts Member
    Lol the 40 year old nerds are back at it again with “this is so bad”, and “don’t watch it.” It’s all opinion. Let people like these movies; don’t join in with Disney and ruin Star Wars by trashing the film all over the internet. That will only taint the entire saga for generations.
  • JZ95
    167 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    Lol the 40 year old nerds are back at it again with “this is so bad”, and “don’t watch it.” It’s all opinion. Let people like these movies; don’t join in with Disney and ruin Star Wars by trashing the film all over the internet. That will only taint the entire saga for generations.

    Assuming the age of people is the dumbest thing you can do. And although some things are opinion, there also objective facts about the movies that warrant dislike.

    First of all, there's something that's called "lore" and "precedent" that should not be violated or contradicted without justification. The most obvious example is Rey and her Mary Sue status that we have no explanation for. We had a whole 2 movies to show us why Rey is so powerful, why she is capable of learning abilities that should take alot of training and experience, automatically just to patch holes in the narrative.

    Then you have character assassination. Although it's possible for a character to have a shift in their personality, the fact is that Luke's decision to abandon his friends and family without a fight, to be threatened by a far superior force is simply stupid and unbelievable. You're telling me that the guy who managed to resist Palpatine and Vader would just cower in the face of Snoke? Yeah right that's totally believable...
    He chose to die alone in isolation instead of sacrificing himself for a greater purpose, going down without a fight? If that's the case why even leave a map behind? Think about it, the entire episode 7 is all about the map that leads to Luke Skywalker, the go through hell to get the map together and when they finally find Luke, he wants nothing to do with them. If that's the case why even bother with the map bro?

    Then you have the issue I talked about earlier, Ryan Johnson failed to grasp the essence of star wars movies. I want a trilogy that spans an era, not a trilogy that takes place over the course of a couple weeks! No character progression, nobody grew. In the prequels we see the growth of our characters, Anakin starting from a little boy to a man, obi wan from Padawan to Master, Palpatine from a senator to the almighty emperor, Padme, from a young queen to a respected senator and mother of Luke and Leia.

    In the sequels we see the growth of Luke from a young farmboy to a Jedi, Han Solo from a selfish smuggler to a leader of the rebellion. Vader, from a ruthless sith to a guy who was turned to the light due to the influence of his son.

    In the prequels we see the clone wars from start to finish, in the sequels we see the rebellion from the moment Luke joins to the end of the empire. In this movie we see people chasing maps and codebreakers who end up having 0 impact in the story.

    These are only some of the reasons why anyone, not just some bitter 40 year old dude would hate JJ/RJ/CK/Disney star wars and why we appreciate Luca's genius
  • “He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power...which, eventually of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death...but not himself.”

    Guess Palpatine figured out a way to save himself.
    Free at last
  • JZ95
    167 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    “He became so powerful, the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power...which, eventually of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death...but not himself.”

    Guess Palpatine figured out a way to save himself.

    Yeah I've thought about this alot. The thing is, did he actually tell the truth to Anakin or did he just lie and tell him what he wanted to hear. I mean he was caught off guard and thrown down the reactor, you'd think those kind of things require something like a ritual. Whatever, I have no issue with Palpatine coming back, however like SW theory said, it would sad because it kind of invalidates Vader's sacrifice.
  • I will wait to be disappointed until I actually see it.
  • GBahia03 wrote: »
    New trilogy > OT

    Lol. Um no.
  • JZ95 wrote: »
    First of all, there's something that's called "lore" and "precedent" that should not be violated or contradicted without justification. The most obvious example is Rey and her Mary Sue status that we have no explanation for.

    Read the novelizations. They go into it in detail that's not allowed by movies. If you want to stick to just the movies - Luke can suddenly start blocking blaster bolts from droids without being able to see them after 30 seconds of gobbledy-**** from a hermit space wizard in ANH.
    JZ95 wrote: »
    He chose to die alone in isolation instead of sacrificing himself for a greater purpose, going down without a fight?

    But he did the exact opposite of that, didn't he? His last act was a sacrifice, going down with a fight.
    JZ95 wrote: »
    ...[lots of stuff about timelines]... These are only some of the reasons why anyone, not just some bitter 40 year old dude would hate JJ/RJ/CK/Disney star wars and why we appreciate Luca's genius

    I do agree that the time frame covered by the newer movies is less of an 'era' and more of a point in time, so far. The last one is stated to take place a couple of years after TLJ so we'll see.

    I disagree that Lucas was a genius. I'd say he's as lucky as he was good and made some really good audibles along the way (Vader being Luke's father, for instance). In my view, the PT is rally only palatable because the Clone Wars was so good. I've seen them all several times recently (kids!) - the story line is mediocre (space politics, yay!), and the dialogue...yikes. Great actors were able to salvage their parts (Neeson, McGregor, Lee), the rest...not so much.

    I'm not sure if I'm happy or sad for you that you can muster enough emotion about a movie to actively "hate" it. I can understand being disappointed that it didn't go the way you thought it would, but hate takes a lot of energy for something that takes two and a half hours out of your life.

    My joy from Star Wars is derived from watching my kids become fans and the joy they get from watching the movies and shows, learning the "lore" and of course playing with the merch!! I would "hate" to not be able to enjoy that because the ST made my childhood hero depressed after everything he worked for was ruined or decided to make a female the lead character.

    I'm reserving judgment on the entire trilogy until I've actually seen the entire thing. The first two installments have their pros and cons, just like the six movies that came before them.
  • Legit question, as I haven't been able to find an answer to this: why exactly did the First Order elect to just wait for the Resistance fleet to run out of gas in TLJ? They had roughly how many ships with them in that fleet? Pretty sure I saw more than a handful. Couldn't they have sent a few ahead through hyperspace, had them turn around, then just jump back and outgun the Resistance? Was there a documented reason why it wasn't possible? Was it hubris? I get that the Resistance fleet could stay out of range at normal speeds, but they couldn't jump to hyperspace and had nowhere else to go.

    That's what really sticks with me above all else with TLJ. Why even send me down this road of misdirection and undoing a lot of previous character story lines when the whole reason for all of it doesn't seem to hold up? I don't think the new trilogy is total garbage, and I'm really pretty ready to see how they bring it all together. But if the entire basis of one of the three movies doesn't make sense from a foundational standpoint, I'm going to have a hard time accepting it until I get some clarification.
  • papa_jupez wrote: »
    Legit question, as I haven't been able to find an answer to this: why exactly did the First Order elect to just wait for the Resistance fleet to run out of gas in TLJ? They had roughly how many ships with them in that fleet? Pretty sure I saw more than a handful. Couldn't they have sent a few ahead through hyperspace, had them turn around, then just jump back and outgun the Resistance? Was there a documented reason why it wasn't possible? Was it hubris? I get that the Resistance fleet could stay out of range at normal speeds, but they couldn't jump to hyperspace and had nowhere else to go.

    That's what really sticks with me above all else with TLJ. Why even send me down this road of misdirection and undoing a lot of previous character story lines when the whole reason for all of it doesn't seem to hold up? I don't think the new trilogy is total garbage, and I'm really pretty ready to see how they bring it all together. But if the entire basis of one of the three movies doesn't make sense from a foundational standpoint, I'm going to have a hard time accepting it until I get some clarification.

    There is a lot I would like clarification on. As for the reason, all I can offer is plot aromor? If the FO were as ruthless as that, there would be no "good" guys to fight in Rise of Skywalker.
  • papa_jupez
    13 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    That's true, and certainly not to say there aren't plot holes anywhere else in the Star Wars universe, but if the whole reason for the movie's existence can be pretty completely undercut fairly early on in the movie, that's a bit harder to come to terms with. Let's not even take into consideration the somewhat off the mark tone and vibe, the going totally against some established character motivations, and the expecting us to take way too much at face value (Seriously, Poe had no previous encounters with Holdo? Didn't even seem to know what she looked like before she walked in the room. Isn't she one of the bigger names and leaders in a relatively small group?). The fact that it's all rendered meaningless because it's built on a plot that doesn't seem to hold up from the beginning makes everything else harder to get a handle on. For me at least.
  • Nihion
    3308 posts Member
    JZ95 wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Lol the 40 year old nerds are back at it again with “this is so bad”, and “don’t watch it.” It’s all opinion. Let people like these movies; don’t join in with Disney and ruin Star Wars by trashing the film all over the internet. That will only taint the entire saga for generations.

    Assuming the age of people is the dumbest thing you can do. And although some things are opinion, there also objective facts about the movies that warrant dislike.

    First of all, there's something that's called "lore" and "precedent" that should not be violated or contradicted without justification. The most obvious example is Rey and her Mary Sue status that we have no explanation for. We had a whole 2 movies to show us why Rey is so powerful, why she is capable of learning abilities that should take alot of training and experience, automatically just to patch holes in the narrative.

    Then you have character assassination. Although it's possible for a character to have a shift in their personality, the fact is that Luke's decision to abandon his friends and family without a fight, to be threatened by a far superior force is simply stupid and unbelievable. You're telling me that the guy who managed to resist Palpatine and Vader would just cower in the face of Snoke? Yeah right that's totally believable...
    He chose to die alone in isolation instead of sacrificing himself for a greater purpose, going down without a fight? If that's the case why even leave a map behind? Think about it, the entire episode 7 is all about the map that leads to Luke Skywalker, the go through hell to get the map together and when they finally find Luke, he wants nothing to do with them. If that's the case why even bother with the map bro?

    Then you have the issue I talked about earlier, Ryan Johnson failed to grasp the essence of star wars movies. I want a trilogy that spans an era, not a trilogy that takes place over the course of a couple weeks! No character progression, nobody grew. In the prequels we see the growth of our characters, Anakin starting from a little boy to a man, obi wan from Padawan to Master, Palpatine from a senator to the almighty emperor, Padme, from a young queen to a respected senator and mother of Luke and Leia.

    In the sequels we see the growth of Luke from a young farmboy to a Jedi, Han Solo from a selfish smuggler to a leader of the rebellion. Vader, from a ruthless sith to a guy who was turned to the light due to the influence of his son.

    In the prequels we see the clone wars from start to finish, in the sequels we see the rebellion from the moment Luke joins to the end of the empire. In this movie we see people chasing maps and codebreakers who end up having 0 impact in the story.

    These are only some of the reasons why anyone, not just some bitter 40 year old dude would hate JJ/RJ/CK/Disney star wars and why we appreciate Luca's genius

    Assuming age? I’m sure I could do dumber.

    Luke couldn’t face the mistake of losing his student and nephew; something he’s never had to deal with before. He also learns in the OT that violence is not the answer. He went down with a fight, but not a physical one.

    Also, Lucas brought you midichlorians and Jar Jar. Oh and Anakin and Padmés weird love story. Just so you know.
  • Dont forget he gave us Ewoks and Jar Jar too.
    Free at last
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    This new trilogy is a mess. Even if they make TROS as good as they can, it won't make up for anything that has been and put it back on track.

    TFA was a rehash of ANH but did introduce and set up characters. JJ's "mystery boxes" were at least intriguing for the audience.

    Along comes Johnson who literally destroyed everything TFA had set up. Despite using lore breaking actions such as the Holdo Maneuver and crippling the character of Luke Skywalker - his biggest flaw from a storytelling perspective was his lack of explanation of Snoke and killing him off as nothing.

    The trilogy needing to fulfill one more movie needs a compelling villain - snoke is dead. So they bring back Palpatine - which undoes everything in all prior star wars movies for the last 40+ years - a bold move to make and a dumb one.

    Rey now being the "savior" of the galaxy over the likes of Anakin and Luke is just the sadest thing in movie history, let alone this franchise.

    There is nothing that can be done to "save" this trilogy, its a complete waste of time and money and has done nothing but divide the fans of this once great franchise.

    Although this trilogy is a literal write-off, we can look forward to the likes of the Mandalorian, the Obi Wan series and the return of the Clone Wars.

    Needless to say I will not be seeing this **** of a movie and an absolute abomination of a star wars trilogy. Sorry Disney, i'll keep my money in my wallet. All fans with any brains should do the same. Not boycott everything star wars - or we will get no more star wars. Just boycott what is bad and then they may try to do right by the beloved fans.

    That's my 2 cents - go see it if you want, but all your doing is promoting more bad star wars and letting them get away with it.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Never understood why people complain in one hand that Luke's character was assassinated but on the other that Rey is a Mary Sue. Isn't Luke's arc in the OT similar to Rey's? Aren't they similarly flawed or not, as the case may be?

    Is this your attempt at some kind of sick joke???
  • Nihion
    3308 posts Member
    You have the right to not like it, but not the right to shut it down. Some people like the new movies.

    Also, if you don’t like it, get a job at Disney and make your own movie.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Never understood why people complain in one hand that Luke's character was assassinated but on the other that Rey is a Mary Sue. Isn't Luke's arc in the OT similar to Rey's? Aren't they similarly flawed or not, as the case may be?

    Is this your attempt at some kind of sick joke???

    Did you forget the part in ANH where a completely untrained Luke who has never once flown an x-wing survives an attack run against a moon-sized military fortress and highly trained military pilots? Oh, and then he uses the force (which some old dude from the desert told him about earlier that week) to guide a bomb into a small exhaust port and destroy the Death Star.
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  • Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.
    Free at last
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.
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  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.

    It's less of a character flaw and more of bad character writing. We see Luke's journey from farm boy to hero(literally the hero's journey event in this game), but we see nothing from Rey. The movie just tells us she is good, but we don't know why. In Force Awakens, she beats Kylo at lightsaber fighting when she has never used one before. She pilots the Falcon effortlessly, yet she has never flown a ship before. She uses a mind trick without even really knowing what the force is. In the second movie she surrenders, she isn't captured, which was dumb anyway. I'm not opposed to her because she is a female. I'm opposed because her character is poorly written.
  • Nihion
    3308 posts Member
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.

    It's less of a character flaw and more of bad character writing. We see Luke's journey from farm boy to hero(literally the hero's journey event in this game), but we see nothing from Rey. The movie just tells us she is good, but we don't know why. In Force Awakens, she beats Kylo at lightsaber fighting when she has never used one before. She pilots the Falcon effortlessly, yet she has never flown a ship before. She uses a mind trick without even really knowing what the force is. In the second movie she surrenders, she isn't captured, which was dumb anyway. I'm not opposed to her because she is a female. I'm opposed because her character is poorly written.

    I would go so far as to say that Daisy Ridley’s performance is fantastic; but I would also agree that the writing is bad, and without Ridley, the character is uninteresting.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    Boo wrote: »
    Never understood why people complain in one hand that Luke's character was assassinated but on the other that Rey is a Mary Sue. Isn't Luke's arc in the OT similar to Rey's? Aren't they similarly flawed or not, as the case may be?

    Is this your attempt at some kind of sick joke???

    Did you forget the part in ANH where a completely untrained Luke who has never once flown an x-wing survives an attack run against a moon-sized military fortress and highly trained military pilots? Oh, and then he uses the force (which some old dude from the desert told him about earlier that week) to guide a bomb into a small exhaust port and destroy the Death Star.

    It is explained that Luke's x-wing was very similar controls to his T-16 skyhopper (also same manufacturer). Biggs confirms Luke is one of the best pilots he'd known.

    Luke also explains that the exhaust port of about 2 meters is about the same size as the native Womp Rat animal on Tatooine, which he would bullseye while flying his T-16. Additionally his normal T-16 flight run on Tattoine through Beggar's Canyon was essentially training for Luke to complete the Death Star trench run.

    While Luke uses the force to help "guide his actions" which he does while deflecting blaster bolts during his lightsaber training - he was able to let the force do the same while making a shot he had done multiple times before on the said Womp Rats.

    What's you point again?

    Oh yes, same as Rey - No he's not.

    Rey on the other hand has never flown or left Jakuu. Yet she pilots the Falcon better than Han. She also has no training whatsoever and rather than using the force guide her actions, she pulls off seemingly impossible and complicated jedi powers immediately such as mind trick, wins a tug of war force pull against a trained force user, as well as bests said trained force user in lightsaber combat.

    She then goes on to best Luke in combat on Ach-To as well as take on Snoke's guard - all without any training.

    Yes no training, Luke never taught her anything.

    Mary Rey Sue, is nothing similar to Luke.
    Post edited by Boo on
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.

    No one said being a women ever made Rey a bad character - her lack of character and character development does though.

    She willingly allowed to be captured by the FO in TLJ, yet when captured in TFA she rescues herself pulling off immensely complicated force techniques with 0 training.
  • Boo
    4116 posts Member
    Nihion wrote: »
    jawa7778 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.

    It's less of a character flaw and more of bad character writing. We see Luke's journey from farm boy to hero(literally the hero's journey event in this game), but we see nothing from Rey. The movie just tells us she is good, but we don't know why. In Force Awakens, she beats Kylo at lightsaber fighting when she has never used one before. She pilots the Falcon effortlessly, yet she has never flown a ship before. She uses a mind trick without even really knowing what the force is. In the second movie she surrenders, she isn't captured, which was dumb anyway. I'm not opposed to her because she is a female. I'm opposed because her character is poorly written.

    I would go so far as to say that Daisy Ridley’s performance is fantastic; but I would also agree that the writing is bad, and without Ridley, the character is uninteresting.

    With Ridley the character is bad - she is a poorly written and developed character, with no flaws or struggle she is the most boring thing about the ST.
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.

    So she is a female 007 that has had zero training, lol.

    I dont care if the character was a male, female or whatever. The character is the most overpowered character in Star Wars and for no reason so far.
    Free at last
  • LordDirt wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Luke had flight training at least. Plus he needed help all the time. Rey never needs help and she reminds you of it all the time. What has she ever struggled with? She never loses at any and everything she does. She is the perfect female.

    So she is an overconfident teenager who has immense natural force talent? That in itself sounds like a character flaw, not to mention she has been captured by the First Order in each movie. But nothing anyone says will change the mind of someone who needs to include commentary on her being a woman as evidence of her being a bad character.

    So she is a female 007 that has had zero training, lol.

    I dont care if the character was a male, female or whatever. The character is the most overpowered character in Star Wars and for no reason so far.

    She's not the most overpowered. She just has no purpose in a movie. Nihilius, Sion, and most of the ancient sith lords could easily beat Rey. No matter how "good" she is unless she can resist instant death, Nihilius will beat her. If she could beat Nihilius, then she is stupid.
  • LordDirt
    3201 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    Just wait for episode 9, you will see her do some crazy stuff if the rumors are true. She will be the most powerful ever.
    Post edited by LordDirt on
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  • TVF
    31655 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Just wait for episode 8, you will see her do some crazy stuff if the rumors are true. She will be the most powerful ever.

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  • Boo wrote: »
    Never understood why people complain in one hand that Luke's character was assassinated but on the other that Rey is a Mary Sue. Isn't Luke's arc in the OT similar to Rey's? Aren't they similarly flawed or not, as the case may be?

    Is this your attempt at some kind of sick joke???

    Did you forget the part in ANH where a completely untrained Luke who has never once flown an x-wing survives an attack run against a moon-sized military fortress and highly trained military pilots? Oh, and then he uses the force (which some old dude from the desert told him about earlier that week) to guide a bomb into a small exhaust port and destroy the Death Star.

    Don't forget Luke used to bullseye wamprats in his T-16 back home and they're no larger than 2 meters.
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