There needs to be a turn timer in PvP

Munkie

It's really easy to exploit the clock in PvP in order to gain or hold a rank before the prize timer. So I propose that there be some sort of turn timer in PvP to prevent people from dragging a battle out the entire 5 minutes by just waiting when it's their turn and doing nothing.

Edit: People seem to be misunderstanding what I'm proposing, so I want to clarify. I'm not proposing to do away with the 5 minute match timer or change it. I'm proposing a system on top of that to prevent going idle.

Barrok

No there doesn't. 5 minutes is limiting enough.

Munkie

Barrok wrote: »

No there doesn't. 5 minutes is limiting enough.

Yes there does. I can easily start a battle for the number 1 spot and leave one guy alive, then just wait until the 5 minute timer is almost up and then kill the guy. Reducing the persons chance to take the number 1 spot back before prizes are sent out. I don't see how adding a timer to prevent this would be all that limiting, does somebody need 30 seconds or more to decide on what to do in 1 turn?

Nicks075

So what do you propose then? A 10 second timer per attack? With high health players that would take even longer than the 5 minute timer. A 5 second timer? That too probably would take longer as well so it would solve absolutely nothing. On your next pvp battle count to 5 each time before you attack and see if you finish the fight. So the only logical thing to do would be a 2 second timer, how well do you think that work out with everyone?

A lot of people complain 5 minutes is not long enough, I'm sure they would love the idea of a 5 or 10 second timer though then the players could just milk that timer. It's a strategy game, part of the strategy is the timing of your matches.

I can't possibly think of worse idea to improve pvp arena.

Barrok

Agreed. This is a solution to a non existent problem.

Munkie

Nicks075 wrote: »

So what do you propose then? A 10 second timer per attack? With high health players that would take even longer than the 5 minute timer. A 5 second timer? That too probably would take longer as well so it would solve absolutely nothing. On your next pvp battle count to 5 each time before you attack and see if you finish the fight. So the only logical thing to do would be a 2 second timer, how well do you think that work out with everyone?

A lot of people complain 5 minutes is not long enough, I'm sure they would love the idea of a 5 or 10 second timer though then the players could just milk that timer. It's a strategy game, part of the strategy is the timing of your matches.

I can't possibly think of worse idea to improve pvp arena.

"I can't possibly think of worse idea to improve pvp arena." I don't even know how to reply to this sentence alone: are you being serious, sarcastic, or just insulting? I could brainstorm a lot things that would make the PvP arena a lot worse if I thought about it for 2 minutes.

And I don't see how a 20-30 second timer on a turn would be a bad idea and if the timer ran out then auto mode kicks in for that ONE turn. How can you be in favor of someone sitting idly by waiting for the 5 minute timer to run out before they end the match? I'd call that exploiting more than strategy and it's been something I've now had to resort to because others are doing it. And then the problem comes in by spending shards to attack immediately again after a battle you can essentially hold down a rank down for as long as you want.

Edit: And I'm not proposing to do away with the 5 minute match timer or change it. I'm proposing a system on top of that to prevent going idle.

Nicks075

Lol!! Sarcastic... I would ask you the same thing, a 20 second timer?? No I was actually being completely honest and not trying to be insulting.
Apparently your not understanding what I wrote.
So I'll start a match and wait for the 20 seconds each attack and let auto take my turn as you said. 5 characters against 5 characters, some characters on the enemy's team taking up to if not over 10 hits to kill, not including heals. Let's say for the sake of argument 5 hits to kill each enemy that's 25 attacks multiplied by 20 seconds, that's 500 seconds. That's 8.3 minutes, 30 seconds would be 12.5 minutes. Now imaging taking more than 5 hits on a healer squad not to mention the time for the animation plus the time the enemy uses to attack you. Your looking at battles taking well over 10 minutes and much longer in some circumstances if someone wants to milk the timer.

As I said (without sarcasm) , 2 seconds would be more realistic for what your looking for. And that ain't gonna fly with anyone.

So yes realistically that is the worst idea, I'm sure you can come up with a completely unrealistic ridiculous idea that's worse than that but to be completely honest that comes close.

Munkie

Nicks075 wrote: »

Lol!! Sarcastic... I would ask you the same thing, a 20 second timer?? No I was actually being completely honest and not trying to be insulting.
Apparently your not understanding what I wrote.
So I'll start a match and wait for the 20 seconds each attack and let auto take my turn as you said. 5 characters against 5 characters, some characters on the enemy's team taking up to if not over 10 hits to kill, not including heals. Let's say for the sake of argument 5 hits to kill each enemy that's 25 attacks multiplied by 20 seconds, that's 500 seconds. That's 8.3 minutes, 30 seconds would be 12.5 minutes. Now imaging taking more than 5 hits on a healer squad not to mention the time for the animation plus the time the enemy uses to attack you. Your looking at battles taking well over 10 minutes and much longer in some circumstances if someone wants to milk the timer.

As I said (without sarcasm) , 2 seconds would be more realistic for what your looking for. And that ain't gonna fly with anyone.

So yes realistically that is the worst idea, I'm sure you can come up with a completely unrealistic ridiculous idea that's worse than that but to be completely honest that comes close.

Did you read what I added below what I wrote? I'm not proposing to get rid of the 5 minute timer, I'm proposing a system to prevent going idle. And by your calculations it wouldn't hurt because people should still have the full 5 minute if they need it.

Rheen

Munkie wrote: »

It's really easy to exploit the clock in PvP in order to gain or hold a rank before the prize timer. So I propose that there be some sort of turn timer in PvP to prevent people from dragging a battle out the entire 5 minutes by just waiting when it's their turn and doing nothing.

Terrible idea.

Munkie

Rheen wrote: »

Munkie wrote: »

It's really easy to exploit the clock in PvP in order to gain or hold a rank before the prize timer. So I propose that there be some sort of turn timer in PvP to prevent people from dragging a battle out the entire 5 minutes by just waiting when it's their turn and doing nothing.

Terrible idea.

I had to clarify my original post because I think that it's been misunderstood but could you please explain further?

Nicks075

Munkie wrote: »

Nicks075 wrote: »

Lol!! Sarcastic... I would ask you the same thing, a 20 second timer?? No I was actually being completely honest and not trying to be insulting.
Apparently your not understanding what I wrote.
So I'll start a match and wait for the 20 seconds each attack and let auto take my turn as you said. 5 characters against 5 characters, some characters on the enemy's team taking up to if not over 10 hits to kill, not including heals. Let's say for the sake of argument 5 hits to kill each enemy that's 25 attacks multiplied by 20 seconds, that's 500 seconds. That's 8.3 minutes, 30 seconds would be 12.5 minutes. Now imaging taking more than 5 hits on a healer squad not to mention the time for the animation plus the time the enemy uses to attack you. Your looking at battles taking well over 10 minutes and much longer in some circumstances if someone wants to milk the timer.

As I said (without sarcasm) , 2 seconds would be more realistic for what your looking for. And that ain't gonna fly with anyone.

So yes realistically that is the worst idea, I'm sure you can come up with a completely unrealistic ridiculous idea that's worse than that but to be completely honest that comes close.

Did you read what I added below what I wrote? I'm not proposing to get rid of the 5 minute timer, I'm proposing a system to prevent going idle. And by your calculations it wouldn't hurt because people should still have the full 5 minute if they need it.

OK agreed but with all respect the whole idea behind your proposition was to stop timer milkers, putting the attack timer along with the standard timer would change nothing, they could still milk the attack timer for the full 5 minutes of the standard timer, If you couldn't milk it for the full 5 minutes then the 5 minute timer would be completely useless. Believe me it wouldn't work, not for what you want it to. I understand your frustration but an attack timer is not the solution.

Munkie

Nicks075 wrote: »

Munkie wrote: »

Nicks075 wrote: »

Lol!! Sarcastic... I would ask you the same thing, a 20 second timer?? No I was actually being completely honest and not trying to be insulting.
Apparently your not understanding what I wrote.
So I'll start a match and wait for the 20 seconds each attack and let auto take my turn as you said. 5 characters against 5 characters, some characters on the enemy's team taking up to if not over 10 hits to kill, not including heals. Let's say for the sake of argument 5 hits to kill each enemy that's 25 attacks multiplied by 20 seconds, that's 500 seconds. That's 8.3 minutes, 30 seconds would be 12.5 minutes. Now imaging taking more than 5 hits on a healer squad not to mention the time for the animation plus the time the enemy uses to attack you. Your looking at battles taking well over 10 minutes and much longer in some circumstances if someone wants to milk the timer.

As I said (without sarcasm) , 2 seconds would be more realistic for what your looking for. And that ain't gonna fly with anyone.

So yes realistically that is the worst idea, I'm sure you can come up with a completely unrealistic ridiculous idea that's worse than that but to be completely honest that comes close.

Did you read what I added below what I wrote? I'm not proposing to get rid of the 5 minute timer, I'm proposing a system to prevent going idle. And by your calculations it wouldn't hurt because people should still have the full 5 minute if they need it.

OK agreed but with all respect the whole idea behind your proposition was to stop timer milkers, putting the attack timer along with the standard timer would change nothing, they could still milk the attack timer for the full 5 minutes of the standard timer, If you couldn't milk it for the full 5 minutes then the 5 minute timer would be completely useless. Believe me it wouldn't work, not for what you want it to. I understand your frustration but an attack timer is not the solution.

Yeah it would still be possible but it would hopefully make it more difficult to do so.

Barrok

They have a five minute timer. That's the only restriction we need. If the opponent was a real person then a timer might be helpful, but since it is a CPU, it's not a problem.

Why is it fine for someone to go to the wire and spend all five minutes, but you think it's wrong for someone who got some good crits and finished an opponent faster than expected. Why should that person be punished?

Again, finding a solution to a non existent problem.

Qeltar

The real problem is the "magic cut-off time". It distorts the entire system and penalizes people who can't make themselves available between 5:30 and 6 pm every day.
They've already said they are working on a complete revamp of PvP.

Barrok

Qeltar wrote: »

The real problem is the "magic cut-off time". It distorts the entire system and penalizes people who can't make themselves available between 5:30 and 6 pm every day.
They've already said they are working on a complete revamp of PvP.

First, there is no magic cut off time. It's the same time every day.

Second, how would they even fix this? If PVP events were multiple days, I could see a "sign up" to a specific time, ala Marvel Puzzle Quest, but if they want daily rewarded events then they have to pick a time and stick with it.

Qeltar

What I mean by "magic cutoff time" is that basically nothing matters except what you do between 5 and 6 pm. It comes down to timing and luck more than skill, which is made worse by the fact that unless you are actually trying to start a fight, you have no idea who is currently fighting -- even yourself.
It would actually be cooler if the end time was randomized to some extent. Or if it wasn't based on a specific time at all but on the best rank you reached during a day.

Nicks075

Qeltar wrote: »

What I mean by "magic cutoff time" is that basically nothing matters except what you do between 5 and 6 pm. It comes down to timing and luck more than skill, which is made worse by the fact that unless you are actually trying to start a fight, you have no idea who is currently fighting -- even yourself.
It would actually be cooler if the end time was randomized to some extent. Or if it wasn't based on a specific time at all but on the best rank you reached during a day.

I agree with thet though not random, I do wonder though if there are a few different payout times in each server, it seems that during certain times of the day I get bumped down several times in a matter of an hour and other times I'm never touched for hours, maybe during those times I'm bumped there is a payout time for some other players in different timezones.

I think having a payout every 3 or 6 hours on every server would help reduce complaints about people milking the timers or saving all their attacks for the last 30 minutes before payout. Of course still one payout per day per person but having the servers with a mix of various timezones with payouts at different times so the whole server isn't all fighting for top placement at the same time.

Munkie

Nicks075 wrote: »

Qeltar wrote: »

What I mean by "magic cutoff time" is that basically nothing matters except what you do between 5 and 6 pm. It comes down to timing and luck more than skill, which is made worse by the fact that unless you are actually trying to start a fight, you have no idea who is currently fighting -- even yourself.
It would actually be cooler if the end time was randomized to some extent. Or if it wasn't based on a specific time at all but on the best rank you reached during a day.

I agree with thet though not random, I do wonder though if there are a few different payout times in each server, it seems that during certain times of the day I get bumped down several times in a matter of an hour and other times I'm never touched for hours, maybe during those times I'm bumped there is a payout time for some other players in different timezones.

I think having a payout every 3 or 6 hours on every server would help reduce complaints about people milking the timers or saving all their attacks for the last 30 minutes before payout. Of course still one payout per day per person but having the servers with a mix of various timezones with payouts at different times so the whole server isn't all fighting for top placement at the same time.

If they did multiple payments a day I could see that working though. If they reduced the rewards so instead of 1 big payment you got several small ones a day that equaled what you normally got. I definitely feel like it could make PvP more exciting because it would feel like your trying to hold and maintain a position instead of battling against the clock during the final hour.

Tryban

Sorry, once again sounds like complaining about not being able to achieve desired rank in pvp and feeling disadvantaged when something not going your way.
Turn timer won't help, already been explained why. Anything more than 5 seconds and you'll still have same issue with stalled battles when the goal is to just be engaged but not necessarily win, you don't drop when you lose. Less than 5 secs really seems unreasonable to me. People will still be good enough to manipulate a turn timer so that the battle finishes later rather than sooner.
I think a decent improvement to pvp would be small rewards for winning a battle (xp, a crystal, credits, something). Maybe tie greater battle rewards or an achievement with quicker win time, might add incentive to complete quicker. Overall or daily achievement may work, win x# in under x mins.
They'll never be able to make everyone happy.

Cythis

played so many of these and have never seen a system that's not exploited in one way or another.

This current system weakness is its going to make it really hard for new players 6 months from now to ever get into the top 500 without paying massive amounts of money. I'm sure they will adjust because the forums will blow up at some point.

Tryban

In any system, newer players are at a disadvantage at achieving top rank.
A reasonable adjustment seems to be scaled pvp standings based on lvl.

Cythis

Tryban wrote: »

In any system, newer players are at a disadvantage at achieving top rank.
A reasonable adjustment seems to be scaled pvp standings based on lvl.

Seen that one exploited in blood brothers where lower level team couldn't be beat and could rack up huge wins. It will force people to stay in the most balanced or easier bracket. Tough job EA has figuring this one out.

Tryban

Cythis wrote: »

Tryban wrote: »

In any system, newer players are at a disadvantage at achieving top rank.
A reasonable adjustment seems to be scaled pvp standings based on lvl.

Seen that one exploited in blood brothers where lower level team couldn't be beat and could rack up huge wins. It will force people to stay in the most balanced or easier bracket. Tough job EA has figuring this one out.

The counter is xp for pvp battles and rankings. You can't stall out forever and the content would get really boring if you stayed low level for a lengthy time.

Cythis

Tryban wrote: »

Cythis wrote: »

Tryban wrote: »

In any system, newer players are at a disadvantage at achieving top rank.
A reasonable adjustment seems to be scaled pvp standings based on lvl.

Seen that one exploited in blood brothers where lower level team couldn't be beat and could rack up huge wins. It will force people to stay in the most balanced or easier bracket. Tough job EA has figuring this one out.

The counter is xp for pvp battles and rankings. You can't stall out forever and the content would get really boring if you stayed low level for a lengthy time.

would be nice to get that now, it's not like we get that many rounds to start with. Good suggestion

cosmicturtle333

Well they should eventually have tournaments, so that might add a little variety.

Loce

Munkie wrote: »

It's really easy to exploit the clock in PvP in order to gain or hold a rank before the prize timer. So I propose that there be some sort of turn timer in PvP to prevent people from dragging a battle out the entire 5 minutes by just waiting when it's their turn and doing nothing.

Edit: People seem to be misunderstanding what I'm proposing, so I want to clarify. I'm not proposing to do away with the 5 minute match timer or change it. I'm proposing a system on top of that to prevent going idle.

Good idea. Most games like this do have a turn timer. And it doesn't even need to be all that long. 15 seconds is more than enough time to decide what you want to do.

ObiWang

Well don't try to exploit the game by trying to gain rank in the last 5 minutes then. Karma comes around.

Phyneas

ObiWang wrote: »

Well don't try to exploit the game by trying to gain rank in the last 5 minutes then. Karma comes around.

How is that an exploit. Play the game as designed.

Jabberwocky

ObiWang wrote: »

Well don't try to exploit the game by trying to gain rank in the last 5 minutes then. Karma comes around.

Exactly, if you want to snipe a spot last minute you'll have to contend with people maximizing the clock to their own advantage.