A fair grand arena match...?

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I never get one. Seriously, I win maybe 1 out of 20 matches. I’m always either dead last or second last.

So what’s the deal? I’m supposed to be better than I am? I guess I suck at pvp. Is there any chance I’m ever going to have a shot at winning a match? (WITHOUT PULLING OUT MY CREDIT CARD)
I really don’t enjoy grand arena at all. All it does is discourage me. If I lose 19 matches in a row, why am I still matched up against people who curb stomp me every single time? Are they all paying to win and I’m the charity you’re giving them? Why am I consistently matched against players with greater skill than me? Most matchmaking systems eventually account for this. But not here?
I don’t understand why the game is designed this way. Even the stupid daily arena allows me to win every other match.. it’s just boring because i only get to use the same team over and over against the same opponent teams over and over. And of course, in my guild there are others who have more powerful toons (DR/malek) but they’re in a lower grand arena division than me (I’m in div 3) and they win basically every match. How is this working as intended?

You know, if you let the pay-to-win players have all the fun, eventually the rest of us will leave .. and then the p2w won’t have anyone left to beat.. then they’ll leave too.

I honestly enjoy a fair match the most .. but honestly, every single grand arena makes me feel like I’m way out of my league. Why am I continuously matched against players that are able to nuke me? Not fun.

Replies

  • Has it ever occured to you that something is wrong with your roster, modding, strategy, the way you use your characters on offense or all of the above?

    No offense, but blaming it on not spending enough is a not exactly a valid excuse. It's highly doubtful that all your opponents just outspend you, especially when you are in division 3 which is not exactly whale territory.

    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event, since you are matched with players within the same league (and the better ones are usually in aurodium by week 4). If you can still barely win a match even then, it's hardly the fault of matchmaking, even less so the issue of one's spending tendencies.

    Dude, I said I’m out skilled. I mentioned the pay to win thing because it IS a factor, but I’m not saying that’s why I’m losing.

    This is a casual game. I’m a casual player. I don’t have day and night to study strats or never ending cash to buy mods and gear.. I’m CASUAL. Can’t I be matched against other players at a similar skill level? I win one out of 20 rounds. I have never actually won a match. It’s not very fun to me. I would just not bother, but I need the stupid currency for gear.
  • micha_15
    20 posts Member
    edited November 19
    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event.
    And that is just a bad system because you get penalized for performing well without giving you better rewards in the next round with harder matchups
  • Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that something is wrong with your roster, modding, strategy, the way you use your characters on offense or all of the above?

    No offense, but blaming it on not spending enough is a not exactly a valid excuse. It's highly doubtful that all your opponents just outspend you, especially when you are in division 3 which is not exactly whale territory.

    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event, since you are matched with players within the same league (and the better ones are usually in aurodium by week 4). If you can still barely win a match even then, it's hardly the fault of matchmaking, even less so the issue of one's spending tendencies.
    Dude, I said I’m out skilled. I mentioned the pay to win thing because it IS a factor, but I’m not saying that’s why I’m losing.
    The perks and disadvantages of playing casually. It's nice that your daily routine is not half-dependent on a mobile game, but on the other hand, the higher your GP, the less likely it is to face completely casual and/or generally out-of-touch players when it comes to strategy.

    As I said above, in week 3/4 you are matched with players of similar win/loss ratio. If you lost all your matches at that point, chances are they have done the same. It is only this fair the matchmaking can get.

    If you want a win, at some point you need to do a minimal amount of research instead of just waiting to fight another player that is even less interested in getting familiar with different game mechanics.
  • Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that something is wrong with your roster, modding, strategy, the way you use your characters on offense or all of the above?

    No offense, but blaming it on not spending enough is a not exactly a valid excuse. It's highly doubtful that all your opponents just outspend you, especially when you are in division 3 which is not exactly whale territory.

    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event, since you are matched with players within the same league (and the better ones are usually in aurodium by week 4). If you can still barely win a match even then, it's hardly the fault of matchmaking, even less so the issue of one's spending tendencies.

    Dude, I said I’m out skilled. I mentioned the pay to win thing because it IS a factor, but I’m not saying that’s why I’m losing.

    This is a casual game. I’m a casual player. I don’t have day and night to study strats or never ending cash to buy mods and gear.. I’m CASUAL. Can’t I be matched against other players at a similar skill level? I win one out of 20 rounds. I have never actually won a match. It’s not very fun to me. I would just not bother, but I need the stupid currency for gear.

    If you want to win that badly then stop being casual perhaps? If you don't want to lose all the time then maybe it's time for you to put some effort into it. And if you're casual and don't care much, then just join, set defenses, do nothing and get free rewards. Sounds reasonable or not? Why do people always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter... No pain, no gain. Simple as that.
  • The perks and disadvantages of playing casually. It's nice that your daily routine is not half-dependent on a mobile game, but on the other hand, the higher your GP, the less likely it is to face completely casual and/or generally out-of-touch players when it comes to strategy.

    As I said above, in week 3/4 you are matched with players of similar win/loss ratio. If you lost all your matches at that point, chances are they have done the same. It is only this fair the matchmaking can get.

    If you want a win, at some point you need to do a minimal amount of research instead of just waiting to fight another player that is even less interested in getting familiar with different game mechanics.

    Aren’t you contradicting what you said? Since I am playing casually, why am I getting matched against players that are, by your analysis, spending far more time and effort researching strats? So: I’m just good enough to be matched against people who do that, but I never get to go up against another casual player? Why? Because I invested in useless toons like Phoenix, wiggs etc.. (plus a bunch of useless ships btw) and now my GP reflects “value” in those choices that isn’t really there?

    Put it this way- every single opponent I face in GA has DR/malek. That means they also have a JR squad. I do NOT have DR/malek. Or half the other toons they have that they use to murder me. I’m playing the eternal catchup game created by our dark masters at CG, so at this point, my best squad is JR. Right off the bat I’m at a disadvantage. I don’t have time or money to spend leveling grevious, or the bugs, or whatever the flavour of the month is that I need to counter revan. After months and months of losing round after round after round, it would be nice to feel like I even have a CHANCE at winning. Getting annihilated over and over DOESNT inspire me, or encourage me.

    So why am I matched against players that have them? By contrast, some in my guild have only been playing for a year.. they haven’t wasted resources on toons like Phoenix.. their roster is highly specialized to keep their GP low, with only their most important toons maxxed. They have DR/malek, and report winning all/most of their GA matches. Yet they’re in division 6. If I went against them, I’d probably lose.. yet they’re considered to be ranked lower than me..?

    Anyway, whatever. I feel like no matter what I say, you’re just not going to get it. Grand arena hasn’t been fun for me since day one.

  • Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that something is wrong with your roster, modding, strategy, the way you use your characters on offense or all of the above?

    No offense, but blaming it on not spending enough is a not exactly a valid excuse. It's highly doubtful that all your opponents just outspend you, especially when you are in division 3 which is not exactly whale territory.

    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event, since you are matched with players within the same league (and the better ones are usually in aurodium by week 4). If you can still barely win a match even then, it's hardly the fault of matchmaking, even less so the issue of one's spending tendencies.

    Dude, I said I’m out skilled. I mentioned the pay to win thing because it IS a factor, but I’m not saying that’s why I’m losing.

    This is a casual game. I’m a casual player. I don’t have day and night to study strats or never ending cash to buy mods and gear.. I’m CASUAL. Can’t I be matched against other players at a similar skill level? I win one out of 20 rounds. I have never actually won a match. It’s not very fun to me. I would just not bother, but I need the stupid currency for gear.

    If you want to win that badly then stop being casual perhaps? If you don't want to lose all the time then maybe it's time for you to put some effort into it. And if you're casual and don't care much, then just join, set defenses, do nothing and get free rewards. Sounds reasonable or not? Why do people always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter... No pain, no gain. Simple as that.

    To be fair, there is losing due to a lack of skill but there is also losing due to being hopelessly outmatched. I keep experiencing more if the later in the recent GACs, could be because I moved to div1 recently.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.

  • If you want to win that badly then stop being casual perhaps? If you don't want to lose all the time then maybe it's time for you to put some effort into it. And if you're casual and don't care much, then just join, set defenses, do nothing and get free rewards. Sounds reasonable or not? Why do people always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter... No pain, no gain. Simple as that.

    I never said I wanted to be handed wins on a silver platter.. I said I think im being consistently matched with opponents who outskill me specifically in GA. Not a problem in regular arena, where I win some, and lose some. In GA, it’s just lose, lose, lose.. and it hardly feels fair.
  • Why do people always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter... No pain, no gain. Simple as that.
    In parts I agree with you, but matchmaking still sucks as to much depends on RNG. There would be just way better systems to make people overall more content
  • I don't see how it can go based on performance when most of the opponents I face lately are zetad to the hilt.
    I don't care if I win or lose, as I have a life to live... But I agree with the OP... Winning sometimes would be nice...
    Maybe make the algorithm recognize and organise cashers with cashers and casual with casual?
  • Zippy_3000 wrote: »

    If you want to win that badly then stop being casual perhaps? If you don't want to lose all the time then maybe it's time for you to put some effort into it. And if you're casual and don't care much, then just join, set defenses, do nothing and get free rewards. Sounds reasonable or not? Why do people always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter... No pain, no gain. Simple as that.

    I never said I wanted to be handed wins on a silver platter.. I said I think im being consistently matched with opponents who outskill me specifically in GA. Not a problem in regular arena, where I win some, and lose some. In GA, it’s just lose, lose, lose.. and it hardly feels fair.

    I understand that it's frustrating facing people with meta teams when you don't have them yourself. That means you need to devote some time building those teams yourself and turn your roster around so that it's more lean than now.

    I've been in a similar situation as you a while ago. I lacked lots of the meta teams and GA was really tough. But I put a lot of effort into it and still managed to win lots of matches against seemingly stronger opponents. I also had, and still have lots of fluff due to being a veteran player that most players I face don't have because they started later and didn't need that stuff. I can't remove that fluff but I learned to accept that as a constant challenge I have to face. I never gave up and now I'm slowly catching up. It's unfortunate that as an older player you have some "useless" stuff lying around, but that's just how it is. Accept it and work your way up. It's tough if you're a casual player but there's not much you can do other than work hard on your roster.

  • I understand that it's frustrating facing people with meta teams when you don't have them yourself. That means you need to devote some time building those teams yourself and turn your roster around so that it's more lean than now.

    I've been in a similar situation as you a while ago. I lacked lots of the meta teams and GA was really tough. But I put a lot of effort into it and still managed to win lots of matches against seemingly stronger opponents. I also had, and still have lots of fluff due to being a veteran player that most players I face don't have because they started later and didn't need that stuff. I can't remove that fluff but I learned to accept that as a constant challenge I have to face. I never gave up and now I'm slowly catching up. It's unfortunate that as an older player you have some "useless" stuff lying around, but that's just how it is. Accept it and work your way up. It's tough if you're a casual player but there's not much you can do other than work hard on your roster.

    Finally, someone with an understanding response. :)

    I’m working on it, it’s just extremely frustrating, as you appear to understand.

    I guess it’s really stupid of me to say anything in these forums about it.. too much to ask for most people who don’t have that extra crap in their roster to do more than just say: “dude, You’re wrong. Also, you suck. It’s not a problem for me. You just need to get good.”

    So again, sincerely, I appreciate your response.
  • To your original questions, I doubt you’re playing against p2w players because they are also losing and in lower leagues. Here’s some things you’re not considering:

    1. There’s 4 rounds of Matchmaking and the first is entirely based on your top toons GP. That only leaves 3 more rounds to differentiate yourself from the average player that has average pvp skills. If you move into bronzium after the first set of GA matches, you will again be matched with the same pool of players, so you really only get 2 sets of matches where you’re playing lower quality players.
    2. If you have a high GP (3.5+ million), you’re most likely going to see lots of JKR and DR (maybe not all malaks) teams. Those characters have been out too long and those that didn’t get them first or second time got tired of losing to them, so they jumped on board. Unfortunately, there’s no pilots team that can beat these squads, so if you want to beat them you need counter or those teams.
    3. Matchmaking is based on GP of your top toons/maybe ships. If you have a lot of old school toons with zetas then you’ll need to just keep from adding GP to those guys and focus on newer characters. I have zeta QGJ who never sees play time in GAC but is in my top 80.
  • I experienced the same situation beginning of 2019, where i had no counter to DR/Malaks (and before same with JKR), the solution is to work and focus on counter teams (information about CT is available everywhere).
    It'll take a while, but you'll feel good when you'll no more stuck behind some DR walls etc., i know the frustration to throw your whole roster to a team and you can't even weaken it...

    As i am a long time player, i have also a lot of chars which today i wouldn't level and gear anymore, but hey that's my reality and i have to deal with it, i just can tell you, since i worked on some dedicated counterteams, GAC is much more fun, and now usually it's up to fight efficiency that decides over WIN/LOSS.

    Whale hard get hard ;)
    Swiss Garde Officer, drop me a message if you're interested joining
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?
  • Waqui
    6192 posts Member
    @Zippy_3000

    May I suggest, that you either accept your defeats or start working on your roster, strategy and execution to compete for more wins? Choose whatever is more fun for you. Either path is fine, as long as you have your fun.

    In every GA, from Kyber league to Carbonite, there will be a 0/3 looser. If you prefer winning..... Well, do what it takes to win. Casual/free players can win too, but without putting some effort in to it, you won't win.
  • Waqui
    6192 posts Member
    I don't see how it can go based on performance when most of the opponents I face lately are zetad to the hilt.
    I don't care if I win or lose, as I have a life to live... But I agree with the OP... Winning sometimes would be nice...

    Then do what it takes to win occasionally. Improve your roster, strategy or execution.
    Maybe make the algorithm recognize and organise cashers with cashers and casual with casual?

    And how exactly do you think this would affect the incentive to pay?
  • Maybe make the algorithm recognize and organise cashers with cashers and casual with casual?

    There are far less “cashers” than you realize. Most of my arena shard are 1k crystals a day f2pers.
  • Waqui
    6192 posts Member
    Zippy_3000 wrote: »

    If you want to win that badly then stop being casual perhaps? If you don't want to lose all the time then maybe it's time for you to put some effort into it. And if you're casual and don't care much, then just join, set defenses, do nothing and get free rewards. Sounds reasonable or not? Why do people always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter... No pain, no gain. Simple as that.

    I never said I wanted to be handed wins on a silver platter.. I said I think im being consistently matched with opponents who outskill me specifically in GA.

    Matchmaking is partly based on previous performance (leagues), but how exactly do you expect it to be matched on skill? How would you measure skill?
  • Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    This is a casual game. I’m a casual player. I don’t have day and night to study strats or never ending cash to buy mods and gear.. I’m CASUAL. Can’t I be matched against other players at a similar skill level? I win one out of 20 rounds. I have never actually won a match. It’s not very fun to me. I would just not bother, but I need the stupid currency for gear.

    Then what do you care? As you said, you're a casual player...not a competitive player. So winning vs. losing shouldn't matter to you.
  • Waqui
    6192 posts Member
    Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that something is wrong with your roster, modding, strategy, the way you use your characters on offense or all of the above?

    No offense, but blaming it on not spending enough is a not exactly a valid excuse. It's highly doubtful that all your opponents just outspend you, especially when you are in division 3 which is not exactly whale territory.

    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event, since you are matched with players within the same league (and the better ones are usually in aurodium by week 4). If you can still barely win a match even then, it's hardly the fault of matchmaking, even less so the issue of one's spending tendencies.

    Dude, I said I’m out skilled. I mentioned the pay to win thing because it IS a factor, but I’m not saying that’s why I’m losing.

    I don't believe, it's a matter of paying to win. If you win 1 of every 20 round, I'm quite sure, that those 19 other opponents didn't all pay to beat you. I assume, that most of them were free players just like you.

    I believe it's a matter of roster, strategy and execution.

    If you want some help, please post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and I'm sure people will be willing to help you. That is a far better use of your time, than simply complaining.
  • Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    I think his ask is reasonable, and lesser rewards are also reasonable.

    Many other games have this type of setup in their championship mode. The model I have seen most is the top 25% of each bracket advances to a higher bracket after each championship and the worst 25% drop to a lower bracket (unless they are already in the lowest). Instead of resetting everyone each championship season, you stay in the bracket you were last in. The higher the bracket, the higher the rewards. The best part of a setup like this is that you end up with fair and competitive matches after a few iterations of the championship. Granted you can still get a bad match if someone doesn't play for a few iterations, but for the most part everything evens out.
  • Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    What does JV mean? I can't tell at all lol.
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    What does JV mean? I can't tell at all lol.

    Junior Varsity.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    What does JV mean? I can't tell at all lol.

    Junior Varsity.

    Ah ok thanks. Had to google that one.
  • Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    Actually, what I’m “basically asking” the devs to do is re-evaluate the matchmaking in this game, as I, along with many others, find it really out of whack. For every one person like me who complains, there are undoubtedly others who don’t bother.. maybe they don’t care, or maybe they give up.

    I never said the only reason I lose is because this game is exclusively pay to win (though if you can’t acknowledge that money can make a huge difference, I LAUGH LOUDLY IN YOUR FACE) .. read my words: I said IM OUT PLAYED. I’ve been getting out played since the beginning of GA. If you felt you were constantly up against players with teams you have no chance in beating, you would probably also get frustrated. As some people here have indicated, you’re basically screwed until you have the meta teams.. so I ask quite plainly, why am I matched up against players who have them EVERY TIME? I can understand if it’s 50% of the time..even 60% or 70% .. but when it’s every single time, I think it’s fair to question (and many others have too) the crappy matchmaking process that seems to favour some players over others.

    But what am I doing? It was stupid for me to say anything here.. some people can understand, but as usual, the biggest response from people in these forums is to proclaim that the only possible answer is that there’s nothing wrong with matchmaking, I’m just awful, I don’t understand the game, etc .. I guess that makes all of you feel even more smug that this issue isn’t affecting you.. maybe as a casual player that’s just the way it has to be.. but at the very least I’m entitled to my opinion on this aspect of the game.

    I probably expect too much from the devs.. I mean, they’re grossing around 12 million PER MONTH, but you know, everything is perfect right? And I’m the first person to ever complain about matchmaking right? And the way they constantly force you to “collect” and gear up hordes of new characters instead of generating content for the ones you’ve already invested is something I should never question right?

    I’m not the greatest player in PVP, and at this stage, I certainly do not expect to defeat even half of my opponents .(mostly due to not having the toons they do)...but I guess I DO expect that I at least will have a chance at beating someone at some point..

    Anyway, I tire of this.
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    I didn’t say a single word about pay to win or not so I gave no idea why you are yelling that at me.
  • Liath wrote: »
    I didn’t say a single word about pay to win or not so I gave no idea why you are yelling that at me.

    I may have mixed you up with someone else. My bad. Sorry..
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