A fair grand arena match...?

Replies

  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Someone has to lose, too bad it's you i guess.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    [...]

    I never said the only reason I lose is because this game is exclusively pay to win (though if you can’t acknowledge that money can make a huge difference, I LAUGH LOUDLY IN YOUR FACE) .. read my words: I said IM OUT PLAYED.

    Here are some of the things, you said:
    Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    I guess I suck at pvp. Is there any chance I’m ever going to have a shot at winning a match? (WITHOUT PULLING OUT MY CREDIT CARD)

    [...]

    I really don’t enjoy grand arena at all. All it does is discourage me. If I lose 19 matches in a row, why am I still matched up against people who curb stomp me every single time? Are they all paying to win and I’m the charity you’re giving them?

    [...]

    You know, if you let the pay-to-win players have all the fun, eventually the rest of us will leave .. and then the p2w won’t have anyone left to beat.. then they’ll leave too.

    Yes, there are plenty of ways to win some rounds without paying anything. I believe many of the players, who beat you, are f2p.
    There's plenty of fun and plenty of victories to be had as f2p.

    If you want specific help, link your profile on swgoh.gg.
    I’ve been getting out played since the beginning of GA. If you felt you were constantly up against players with teams you have no chance in beating, you would probably also get frustrated.

    At some point the frustration would probably become big enough for me to start working on my roster, strategy or execution in order to improve.
    As some people here have indicated, you’re basically screwed until you have the meta teams..

    Which division are you in? My ticket alt won 12/12 the previous GAC with no Malak, no Darth Revan, no JKR and no Traya. Just promoted to division 2. So far 5/5 wins. No, I don't expect the streak to last forever, but it proves, that you can still have wins even if missing a lot of the latest META teams.
    so I ask quite plainly, why am I matched up against players who have them EVERY TIME?

    Because you have matching division, league and relevant GP. If your opponents have stronger rosters than you, they simply built them better than you (for GAC purposes). Let them benefit from their effort.
    I can understand if it’s 50% of the time..even 60% or 70% .. but when it’s every single time, I think it’s fair to question (and many others have too) the crappy matchmaking process that seems to favour some players over others.

    If it favours players, who build stronger rosters, it indicates, that it's not as crappy, as you believe.
    But what am I doing? It was stupid for me to say anything here.. some people can understand, but as usual, the biggest response from people in these forums is to proclaim that the only possible answer is that there’s nothing wrong with matchmaking, I’m just awful, I don’t understand the game, etc ..

    Do you mean like this guy? :
    Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    I guess I suck at pvp.
    I guess that makes all of you feel even more smug that this issue isn’t affecting you.. maybe as a casual player that’s just the way it has to be..

    Being casual has nothing to do with it. It's all about your roster, strategy and execution.
    I’m not the greatest player in PVP, and at this stage, I certainly do not expect to defeat even half of my opponents .(mostly due to not having the toons they do)...but I guess I DO expect that I at least will have a chance at beating someone at some point..

    I guess you already do. You have to develop your roster and strategy a bit, but you do, nevertheless.
  • TVF
    36578 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    I think his ask is reasonable, and lesser rewards are also reasonable.

    I don't think most people who complain about MM would suddenly stop complaining if they started winning but got less rewards.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • AvatarofCynicism
    573 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    Just sign up for GAC, take your losses the first week, don’t sign up for weeks 2 or 3, sign up for week 4 while still in carbonite, and fight opponents who are putting down one or two teams on defense just to get GAC rewards/trapped in carbonite title. If you can’t win in carbonite in week 4, then you’ve got a problem.
  • We aren't seeing your roster. We don't really have a way to tell how bad you are
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Zippy_3000 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that something is wrong with your roster, modding, strategy, the way you use your characters on offense or all of the above?

    No offense, but blaming it on not spending enough is a not exactly a valid excuse. It's highly doubtful that all your opponents just outspend you, especially when you are in division 3 which is not exactly whale territory.

    You do get matched with similarly performing players over the course of a one month-long GAC event, since you are matched with players within the same league (and the better ones are usually in aurodium by week 4). If you can still barely win a match even then, it's hardly the fault of matchmaking, even less so the issue of one's spending tendencies.

    Dude, I said I’m out skilled. I mentioned the pay to win thing because it IS a factor, but I’m not saying that’s why I’m losing.

    I don't believe, it's a matter of paying to win. If you win 1 of every 20 round, I'm quite sure, that those 19 other opponents didn't all pay to beat you.

    It would be pretty hilarious though if that were the case
  • When 1 person wins, there's going to be 7 losers. And obviously, the winner will not be flexing his/her win on the forums.

    Your first post on this forum about asking to remove the "dumb squad arena" mode just because you can't win just tells me you're a very entitled person who just constantly contradict your own statements. In fact, almost everyone one of your post is just rant after rant after rant.

    Our of your 10 threads, 8 of them are ranting about pvp. Do you like rant about every multiplayer game where you don't come out on top?

    "I'm a casual player but I care so much about being on top in arenas. I suck at this game but I don't suck that hard." Make up your mind, dude.

    "I don't spend on this game but I demand to be on top like those who have with little to no effort." Have you consider that if that happens, no one will spend on this F2P game which will result this game in dying off much earlier?

    You basically want a mode where you don't have to fight other players, only NPCs. Might I suggest you go play single player offline games instead to be more at peace in life?

    Because all you're doing here is another rant post seeking for attention (congrats, you got em) without providing any insight or proof that you're actually get that many bad match ups or your roster / mods.

    Wake up dude, the world doesn't revolve around you. Give constructive criticism in order to get constructive help from us.
  • Post a link to your roster. I'm at least the 3rd person to ask.

    When you do, people will help. If, as you've repeatedly said, this is down to you being outplayed and not outspent then you just have a skill deficit which can be removed for free.
  • When 1 person wins, there's going to be 7 losers. And obviously, the winner will not be flexing his/her win on the forums.

    Your first post on this forum about asking to remove the "dumb squad arena" mode just because you can't win just tells me you're a very entitled person who just constantly contradict your own statements. In fact, almost everyone one of your post is just rant after rant after rant.
    ve around you.

    You mean self-entitled. Entitled means he actually does deserve what he is saying.
  • TVF
    36578 posts Member
    When 1 person wins, there's going to be 7 losers. And obviously, the winner will not be flexing his/her win on the forums.

    Yeah, flexing happens more on Reddit.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    I think his ask is reasonable, and lesser rewards are also reasonable.

    I don't think most people who complain about MM would suddenly stop complaining if they started winning but got less rewards.

    Tiered brackets with increasing rewards are already a concept in this game. D1 gets more than D2. Bronzium gets less than Chromium etc.

    Honestly matchmaking should never have even been a consideration in this mode had it been developed right.

    A mobile game called golf star gets this type of mode perfect. Essentially everyone (regardless of level or GP) gets set in bracket 1 to start. The top 25% of scorers move to bracket 2 after one event. After the 2nd event the top 25% of scorers in bracket 1 move to 2. The top 25% of 2 move to 3. The bottom 25% of scorers in 2 move down to 1. So on and so forth. Don't ever reset the leader board. If you skip a week, you end up in the bottom 25% that get relegated. Eventually, everyone reaches a level at which they can be competitive, and the mode becomes fun for everyone who participates because the ladders are based on performance and not some horrible matchmaking formula.

    And of course, rewards in 3 are better than 2 which are better than 1.









  • TVF
    36578 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    I think his ask is reasonable, and lesser rewards are also reasonable.

    I don't think most people who complain about MM would suddenly stop complaining if they started winning but got less rewards.

    Tiered brackets with increasing rewards are already a concept in this game. D1 gets more than D2. Bronzium gets less than Chromium etc.

    Honestly matchmaking should never have even been a consideration in this mode had it been developed right.

    A mobile game called golf star gets this type of mode perfect. Essentially everyone (regardless of level or GP) gets set in bracket 1 to start. The top 25% of scorers move to bracket 2 after one event. After the 2nd event the top 25% of scorers in bracket 1 move to 2. The top 25% of 2 move to 3. The bottom 25% of scorers in 2 move down to 1. So on and so forth. Don't ever reset the leader board. If you skip a week, you end up in the bottom 25% that get relegated. Eventually, everyone reaches a level at which they can be competitive, and the mode becomes fun for everyone who participates because the ladders are based on performance and not some horrible matchmaking formula.

    And of course, rewards in 3 are better than 2 which are better than 1.









    Ok but what does any of that have to do with my point?
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    You’re basically asking the devs to make you a JV conference. Would you be ok with competing for significantly fewer rewards as a result of playing in JV? Because if they just matched you with other people who lose and matched the winners with other people who win, keeping the same rewards system as now, then the winners will be getting lower rewards so that you can get higher rewards. Why should the people you admit are better than you at this game mode get lower rewards due to only getting matched against each other?

    I think his ask is reasonable, and lesser rewards are also reasonable.

    I don't think most people who complain about MM would suddenly stop complaining if they started winning but got less rewards.

    Tiered brackets with increasing rewards are already a concept in this game. D1 gets more than D2. Bronzium gets less than Chromium etc.

    Honestly matchmaking should never have even been a consideration in this mode had it been developed right.

    A mobile game called golf star gets this type of mode perfect. Essentially everyone (regardless of level or GP) gets set in bracket 1 to start. The top 25% of scorers move to bracket 2 after one event. After the 2nd event the top 25% of scorers in bracket 1 move to 2. The top 25% of 2 move to 3. The bottom 25% of scorers in 2 move down to 1. So on and so forth. Don't ever reset the leader board. If you skip a week, you end up in the bottom 25% that get relegated. Eventually, everyone reaches a level at which they can be competitive, and the mode becomes fun for everyone who participates because the ladders are based on performance and not some horrible matchmaking formula.

    And of course, rewards in 3 are better than 2 which are better than 1.









    Ok but what does any of that have to do with my point?

    "Tiered brackets with increasing rewards are already a concept in this game. D1 gets more than D2. Bronzium gets less than Chromium etc."

    I'm saying many of these people who are complaining about MM are already getting lesser rewards by virtue of not advancing as far up their current ladders. If they had the feeling of being competitive to earn those rewards, the mode becomes more fun for them.
  • You have already stated the problem... new players at a much lower GP are already farming for JKR and DR. If they grow faster than you they reach your division and you'll be facing them.

    Matchmaking is divided by (in order) Division, then league, then top x GP characters (x changes by division).

    Other casual players will grow slowly and not reach you, more motivated players will reach you while having a much stronger roster for that GP.

    How do YOU fix that (not rely on the game changing to you)? Is it frustrating? Yes! But you can complain or you can change.
    You look at what meta teams are coming up, you ask those players in your guild how they spend crystal or what their farming techniques are. You ask your guild for a counter sheet that helps you understand what teams make effective counters.

    You said you have Jedi Revan, did you know a fast jedi revan with thrawn or with anakin can counter DR for instance? Are you farming the right mods? Are you modding characters effectively?

    How about accept some help and put a tiny bit of effort into learning the game to improve, or accept not winning.

    What do you do in single player games when you reach a hard boss that stomps you? Do you play over and over doing the same thing getting the same results? Do you try different things to try to understand the game mechanics? Do you look up a guide to figure out what you're missing? Do you look for a cheat code that let's you beat that boss by being invincible? Or do you just give up and never finish the game?
  • TVF wrote: »
    I don't think most people who complain about MM would suddenly stop complaining if they started winning but got less rewards.
    I have to disagree on that one. Look at any given sport. Teams in the Sunday league enjoy winning even if their reward might only be a beer whereas the rewards in e.g. the premier league are million of dollars. No one would be playing there if they don't get an occasional win...
  • micha_15
    36 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    The model I have seen most is the top 25% of each bracket advances to a higher bracket after each championship and the worst 25% drop to a lower bracket (unless they are already in the lowest). Instead of resetting everyone each championship season, you stay in the bracket you were last in. The higher the bracket, the higher the rewards.
    Don't know why so many people are against that idea. In my opinion, this would be the best solution. You could even make a league system out of it plus it would make the GAC youtube streams more fun because it has kind of a sport playoff feeling to it :)
  • 7AnimalMother
    2053 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    micha_15 wrote: »
    The model I have seen most is the top 25% of each bracket advances to a higher bracket after each championship and the worst 25% drop to a lower bracket (unless they are already in the lowest). Instead of resetting everyone each championship season, you stay in the bracket you were last in. The higher the bracket, the higher the rewards.
    Don't know why so many people are against that idea. In my opinion, this would be the best solution. You could even make a league system out of it plus it would make the GAC youtube streams more fun because it has kind of a sport playoff feeling to it :)

    I'm not sure that we actually know the opinions of very many people in regards to having GAC take this from. That said, having played this system in another game, it definitely provides the most fun for me personally. It really does allow one to feel competitive at every level of skill/spending.

    I think the main people who would be against it would be EA. They already have a system in place, and it is clear that everything in this game is developed with the least possible amount of effort. If it takes any work... we ain't getting it.

  • TVF
    36578 posts Member
    micha_15 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I don't think most people who complain about MM would suddenly stop complaining if they started winning but got less rewards.
    I have to disagree on that one. Look at any given sport. Teams in the Sunday league enjoy winning even if their reward might only be a beer whereas the rewards in e.g. the premier league are million of dollars. No one would be playing there if they don't get an occasional win...

    Well actually if those people were anything like the people here, they would get on their sport forum and complain that they only got a beer and they were being disrespected.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • To the OP, since this has gotten somewhat off-track:

    We can't know for sure what the issue is without seeing your roster or how you're playing. But if you're still getting squashed by people who are still in bronzium or chromium in week 4, I would guess that you haven't built your roster very well and that your grasp of squad mechanics is not very good.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



  • How fair is a matchmaking of over 25 g12 toons vs 8 g12 toons? Well, I won with 8g 12 toons, by 20 banners. Was it RNG? Not sure if RNG was in my favor for 14 battles (offense and defense combined). Was it p2p? I don't know how much my opponent paid, I usually spend less than $20 a month. Unfair matchmaking? I didn't hear my opponent complain it was unfair matchmaking. This isn't the only time I have fought and won against a team that seemed better.
  • TangoSket
    84 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    OP, would be nice to see your swgoh.gg
    I made similar mistakes, started just over a year ago and am currently sitting at around 1.5M GP with some relic characters and meta teams such as JKR and Geonosians.

    I was a complete noob initially and invested in bad characters that I didn’t know were trash, and I had a Bossk lead bounty hunter team as my squad arena team for about 7 months, until I realised it was bad. I then went for CLS+Chewie and Han and then it got slightly better, I only invested in the meta once I realised how good meta teams are and why they are meta.

    I started a JKR team after I got him and jumped 500 spots to top 200 in arena. Geonosions, as you stated I believe take ‘time and money’. I started farming a full geo team less than two months ago and I almost have all the geos at 7 stars g12, it is not hard considering you utilise all the events and ways of getting gear and credits that are available to you, and focus all of them on a specific toon or gear, I guarantee you it will be so easy.

    Grievous took only 3 months to get to zzG12 7stars through using galactic war currency and squad arena currency to make shard shop currency and then farm additionally through fleet arena.

    TL;DR, PROVIDE SWGOH LINK AND FOCUS ON ONE THING AT A TIME AND MAKE USE OF EVERYTHING AVAILABLE TO YOU

    Additionally, If you restart your game and try to get into the arena shard at a good place and focus your farming efforts on good low-game things then you can propel yourself early game. Just started an alt about a month ago and by using good mods and knowledge from my first account, I have quite a decent phoenix squad for my level, as well as some various other end-game toons that will prepare me for legendary toons, and am actually at a better arena rank than my first account despite it being only level 52.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    TangoSket wrote: »
    Additionally, If you restart your game and try to get into the arena shard at a good place and focus your farming efforts on good low-game things then you can propel yourself early game.

    Restart? According to his OP and comments he's in division 3 already, has JKR and …. restarting at this point would be silly.
  • Kluski wrote: »
    How fair is a matchmaking of over 25 g12 toons vs 8 g12 toons? Well, I won with 8g 12 toons, by 20 banners. Was it RNG? Not sure if RNG was in my favor for 14 battles (offense and defense combined). Was it p2p? I don't know how much my opponent paid, I usually spend less than $20 a month. Unfair matchmaking? I didn't hear my opponent complain it was unfair matchmaking. This isn't the only time I have fought and won against a team that seemed better.

    This is what people don't seem to get: just "having more shiny stuff" doesn't mean you're guaranteed to win. So many people that wail about "unfair" matches would probably pull out wins if they would just try.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



  • In my opinion the only was to fix matchmaking is to implement some form of ELO.
  • In my opinion the only was to fix matchmaking is to implement some form of ELO.

    Blue Sky thinking.
  • Jarvind wrote: »
    Kluski wrote: »
    How fair is a matchmaking of over 25 g12 toons vs 8 g12 toons? Well, I won with 8g 12 toons, by 20 banners. Was it RNG? Not sure if RNG was in my favor for 14 battles (offense and defense combined). Was it p2p? I don't know how much my opponent paid, I usually spend less than $20 a month. Unfair matchmaking? I didn't hear my opponent complain it was unfair matchmaking. This isn't the only time I have fought and won against a team that seemed better.

    This is what people don't seem to get: just "having more shiny stuff" doesn't mean you're guaranteed to win. So many people that wail about "unfair" matches would probably pull out wins if they would just try.

    Yep, my Empire team has 1 zeta and 0 g12. It gets me a lot of wins though with EP and Vader 90%+ potency and 200 speed. So many NS teams are like, " Oh I'm fine with 160 speed NS cause of Talzin lead. Once EP stuns 3/5 their team I can use Vader's ability block to stop Talzin's AOE and Daka's heals. 1 zeta, no g12, great team.

    Which machines you drop your quarters in matter.
  • I havent paid a dime and I never lose.


    It's called resource management fam
  • Brutes_McNasty
    12 posts Member
    edited November 2019
    I’m being matched against opponents with rosters far better than mine with elite characters I don’t even have unlocked. I do quite well despite that but some opponents I go in knowing it’s impossible. Do the best I can but still impossible. Stop adding crap content and fix matchups.
  • Matchmaking is extremely ****. Never saw anything as bad in my whole life.
    I really feel myself not a player, but target practice for whales to try out their new almighty toons! So I am sure, that is not their luck of skills or brains, it is made intentional to please whales and made others pay...
    So, OP, you can relax, they are good.
  • Baby_Yoda wrote: »
    I havent paid a dime and I never lose.


    It's called resource management fam

    Nope, it is called “white lie”
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