Cyanide wanted to know how to ease the crunch

Replies

  • Lots of good suggestions here, but unfortunately..

    Bottlenecks (in any shape or form) = potential cash flow for CG. This one statement alone provides proof that these bottlenecks will never go away. They’ll just get different disguises over time..

    To the devs: it would be nice however, to see even a shred of evidence that you’re putting some kind of cap on your own SHAMELESS GREED ... Those painfully obvious and vastly overpriced cashgrabs you parade around in the store make me cringe, and also make it more difficult to suggest this game to a friend or potential new player.
  • TheRHOMBUS wrote: »
    Tweaking Raid rewards, especially Haat, would help immensely. Remove some of the garbage and add a higher drop % for the G8+ items; guns cuffs carbs.

    Rancor > Haat. And that should be reversed at this stage. And Once Haat is simmable (cough cough) it would act/feel more like another challenge tier for those key gear pieces.

    I wouldn't remove garbage gear. Remember what happened with gold balls. Just add stun guns/cuffs/etc.

    I never thought those gold eyeballs should’ve been removed. I also never thought I’d run out either. There are some trash items that always seem to drop.... them not being there increases our chances for something usable.
  • Wow a reasonable discussion filled with reasonable solutions for a very well known issue and request (aleviating the g8-g11 gear crunch). Makes me happy to see a good* discussion that will inevitably fall on def ears but keep it up guys, it’s nice to see a constructive convo for once
  • JaggedJ wrote: »
    Manumicio wrote: »
    Absolutely agree with OP.
    Gear crunch ease = put the guns, cuffs etc. in challenges, that's it.

    They'll never do that because of the short sighted decision to use that gear in g12.5 pieces instead of creating a whole new set of gear.

    This is the real reason things don't feel "eased." Almost every 12.5 piece requires a carbanti, a cuff, or a gun. I have been ringing this bell for MONTHS and people just talk around it. Plus, finishers require some raid only gear like Mk5 callers.

    My suggestion in the Q&A when I ask about this (which always gets ignored) is to add a new box to the simmed raid loot that only drops 12 pieces of the Rancor required gear for right-side gear - carbs, guns, cuffs, callers. Then, do the same for HAAT when it becomes summable for that gear that is needed - mk 8 binocs.
  • Ultra
    4699 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that

    I think it depends on what you're doing. As someone who's currently sitting on 150 stun gun salvage, less than a full carb, and 0 of either eyeballs, I'd actually most like to see the challenge eyeballs in the guild store. Reducing the cost of any of these to the 750 for 50 salvage for the non-challenge eyeball piece would help tremendously.
  • They know **** well that they have done little to help the crunch. That is why the answer they gave was nonsense. "What does it even mean to ease the gear crunch..." Nice try. All this says is that they don't care and you can plan on being stuck behind the gun/cuff/carb wall until the day this game dies.
  • Ultra
    4699 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that

    I think it depends on what you're doing. As someone who's currently sitting on 150 stun gun salvage, less than a full carb, and 0 of either eyeballs, I'd actually most like to see the challenge eyeballs in the guild store. Reducing the cost of any of these to the 750 for 50 salvage for the non-challenge eyeball piece would help tremendously.
    Challenge eye balls are in the guild store. I’ve used plenty of guild store tokens on them
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that

    I'm having issues with Mk 3 Czerka Stun Cuffs (needed in Mk 9 BlasTech Weapon Mod, Mk 4 Sienar Holo Projector, Mk 4 Chedak Comlink and regular old Mk 3 Czerka Stun Cuffs) as well as the and Mk 7 Nubian Security Scanner.

    The Stun Cuffs is on par with the Stun Guns in terms of pieces required, although they are a bit easier to get. Both also show up in the G12+, and G11 and G12 finishers.

    The Mk 7 Security Scanner is frustrating because it isn't farmable; I'm entirely dependent on raid drops, guild store, and the very rare 3 pieces in the shard shop. It also requires a ton of white and green pieces that run out often. I've just started using crystals for full crafted pieces.

    Of the three pieces, I think Stun Cuffs is probably the correct balance of bottleneck - I need a ton and I have to be very judicious in where I use them, but there is a steady stream. If the long-term plan is to expedite movement to G13, I'd highly recommend a) not adding more characters to the GET store so that we can go back to using GET on gear, b) adding a very small amount of weekly guns and cuffs to challenges (1-3 per sim), and c) making the Mk 7 Nubian farmable on a node somewhere.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that

    I think it depends on what you're doing. As someone who's currently sitting on 150 stun gun salvage, less than a full carb, and 0 of either eyeballs, I'd actually most like to see the challenge eyeballs in the guild store. Reducing the cost of any of these to the 750 for 50 salvage for the non-challenge eyeball piece would help tremendously.

    Many wouldn't like it, but I think that this is the quickest and easiest way to impact the sub g12 crunch on carbs/cuffs/guns without flooding the game economy with free stuff. yes, you would still need to use crystals but they would no longer be the most expensive gear (outside of G12+)
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  • I currently have 42 characters that need a stun gun (some of them need more than one.) Yes, I need to prioritize who gets them and where to grind my gear, I get that. But I am so tired of grinding stun guns. I literally do a single hard node for my dailies, and then spend 3 energy refreshes on either stun guns or kyrotech every day. There is no joy in that. There is no excitement in that. There is a mild sense of relief when one of them finishes enough to knock the number down to 41, but then a new gear level or new character pops up and I'm up to 43, 44, 45 needed. My definition of easing the crunch would be to have varied ways and an easier time in unlocking these over-needed pieces, just so I can go have some variance in my daily play. I honestly feel guilty when I spend energy on grinding another piece of gear, because a tiny part of me is just thinking, whelp, that's one less stun gun salvage you are getting.

    I want to be strategizing and theory crafting and playing at the top end, but I started a year into the game, and so I'm forever playing catch up. I get that. I just wish the catch up took different forms than stun guns once in a while. Currently building for a second run at GAS, so my favorites list is dedicated to those characters I need to get him unlocked. I've got all the gear ready to promote 3 toons... except 5 full stun guns and 300 kyrotech salvage. So the grind goes on.
  • Put the good stun guns in the Mace event. Solved.
  • This, we appreciated the ease on G12 pieces and Kryotechs, but we're still bottlebecking at G8-11, Stun Guns, Eyeballs, Carbantis, Stun Cuffs, etc. Did the math, I need more of those pieces for say Droideka, Magnaguard, and B2 alone than all of their G12 pieces. Let alone pretty much every character needing hundreds of these pieces for a total of over a thousand.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that

    You would still have to manage your stun guns though. There are plenty of toons that require 2 or 3 full stun guns easy. Maybe scale back from the 240 and make the drop rate in challenge 2-4 giving an average of 3. So each challenge day gives 15, 3 times a week for 45 salvage. 4 weeks would gives 180 then which is enough for 3.4 stun guns a month which is realistically only enough for one toon. Add in the potential through farming and the shard shop (maybe) you can round it to an even 4 per month so that’s still just one toon and then maybe another. Maybe.
    I don’t see that breaking the economy or hitting the bottom line for their profits hard at all.
  • Austin9370 wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    Firstly this isn’t a call out post, this is a response to a dev asking how we can feel the gear crunch easing so I’d like to answer his question.

    The players would feel the gear crunch ease if we had access to more gear pieces of mk3 carbantis, mk5 stun guns, Mk3 stun cuffs and mk8 gold eye balls. We need to have this old gear crunch alleviated to where we don’t feel an accomplishment from getting 1/2 fully crafted stun guns a month.

    Currently the only places we can get mk5 stun guns on a regular are the tables, farming. That’s it. We can’t afford to get them in the GET store because we need to horde 10’s of thousands to finish epic characters. Just shy of 70,000 GET. So that’s out. They rarely pop up in the shard shop store and that’s totally random.

    How can we ease this crunch? Simple.

    Add a new tier to all the challenges. Make guns, cuffs, and the golden eye balls prizes in the last tiers. It’s as easy as that. At the current rates of gear in challenges, if you do that you won’t overload the economy and can actually help your players feel like they aren’t suffocating under a gear crunch.
    You get each challenge 3 times. For example, add the mk5 guns to a new mace challenge tier. Make the range 3-5 on how many you can get. On average you get 4. So that’s 20 salvage a Day. 3 times a week gives you 60 salvage pieces. 4 weeks gives you 240 salvage. Just short if enough stun gun salvage for 5 Full pieces a month.

    I don't think this is what he said despite the likes. Everyone obviously just wants more and that is the problem!

    He was looking more of a definition of easing the gear crunch looks like. You provided a "solution" of how to input more into the game. There are numerous ways to do this and I think they are fully aware of how to.

    I believe a more direct answer would be the alleviation of high need gear in early tiers. For example, having characters need many cuffs, stun guns, and carbanitis in early gear tiers where they aren't all that usable is problematic. You feel like you're doing a lot of grinding for minimal return. Therefore, the grind would only really be felt at later tiers, but there would be benefits to it.

    Another idea would be, what players think the grind isn't too bad and use that as a starting point. The players who rank high in arena and have ~900 crystals a day are who I'm looking at as they can afford all the initial price tier of energy refreshes. While I don't propose providing this to everyone, figuring out a solution to provide energy refreshes more easily to the lower ranked players (who spend minimally anyway) could be reviewed. This puts the player more in control of what to farm and improves their experience.

    Of course with any change that inputs more resources into the economy, there is less need to buy. You just need to find the right balance that increased inflow of resources creates increased player retention and commitment of players to want to "invest" in the game as they feel you want everyone to have a great experience and aren't purely using gambling and psychological tactics to part "users" from their money.

    Problem is the farm rates are very bad and we shouldn’t need to decide between shard farming and gun farming either. Not to mention we are all farming kyro’s from the tables too. Unless they increase the drop rates this won’t help really.

    I read his question as what can they do to help the players, us, feel the gear crunch ease aNd what easing really means to us. So far it seems the majority in the thread agree that feeling the crunch ease up would be to release a day one bottleneck up that’s been stacked up with other bottlenecks without much relief. How to do that is up for discussion, but it’s something the devs NEED to address.
  • Once upon a time, a few years ago, a SWGOH developer or Community Director (i forget which) mentioned they wanted to figure out a way to make gear drops less random so people wouldn't suffer from long streaks of bad rng. Not yet having played this game all that long, I actually believed the comment (not yet realizing that bad rng is a key stressor used to encourage people to spend).

    At the time, I floated a solution. Instead of having gear drop on nodes at 33% rates, just have store currency drop 100% of the time a node is played. Scale the amount of currency that drops with the node energy costs. Never vary the amount: a 6 energy node would always drop 10 currency an 8 energy node would always drop 15 and so on. Then just put all gear in a store and price is accordingly so that playing a node 3 times would equate to currency necessary to purchase one piece of gear that would have resided there. Poof. RNG gone.

    I know it will never happen, but I would still love a system like this. It would be help alleviate the gear crunch because people could farm whatever characters they were after and instead of receiving whatever gear is on those nodes, they could purchase gear they actually needed......
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    I think the only real bottleneck on early gear is Stun Guns

    Carbantis, Gold Balls, are purchasable through guild store and I think there needs to be some level of bottleneck in this game

    Resource management is an important part of the game, and I don’t want resource abundance

    Stun Gun farming through the GET store was fine but with ECs they put a damper on that

    I think it depends on what you're doing. As someone who's currently sitting on 150 stun gun salvage, less than a full carb, and 0 of either eyeballs, I'd actually most like to see the challenge eyeballs in the guild store. Reducing the cost of any of these to the 750 for 50 salvage for the non-challenge eyeball piece would help tremendously.
    Challenge eye balls are in the guild store. I’ve used plenty of guild store tokens on them

    Yes, and I buy them every time I see them and have the currency available for them. That being said, I'm currently bottlenecked everywhere BUT stun guns.
  • Not requiring all the same rare gear for a third of the gear levels of every toon would be a start but they already screwed that up. Short of adding higher tier events giving out more of the rare gear at more regular intervals theres no way for us to actually feel anything has eased
  • @Cyanide : Ease the crunch : ease gearing to G12... before G12, between G1 and G12... stop the stun gun and other g8 to G12 paywall...
    What you don't understand about it from now month and month?

  • A new tier to the daily challenges is a great way to go. It makes the most sense without flooding in too much all at once. You should be able to get 50 stun guns or cuffs in a 2-3 week period. Especially since if you still have 30+ characters that need it, it will still take a while. But at least you'd be able to plan a little better.
  • Nobody wants the bottleneck removed, only reduced. G12 finishers, kyrotechs and maybe some g12-only gears would be an acceptable bottleneck, imo. Allowing an easier access to guns, cuffs, carbantis, droid callers and furnaces wouldn't hurt the game. On the contrary, getting closer to the maximum might entice people to spend.
  • G11 and 12 should be the bottle neck now but they've screwed themselves over by requiring the same gear for every stinking level. They cant retroactively change it either without outrage from thos that have invested. Rightfully so as well
  • Shouldve had mk 6 and 7 type gears for starting at like gear 10 through g12 with none of that previous gears needed in 10-12
  • TVF
    19029 posts Member
    Slippyfist wrote: »
    @CG_Cyanides

    I'd be willing to argue that my biggest gear crunch, like many others is a shortage of the following: Mk V Stun Guns, Mk III Stun Cuffs and Mk 8 BioTech Implants. What have y'all done to alleviate THAT crunch? You have actually removed some of our farming options for these (fleet nodes). I'm ok with G12 and G12+ gear being harder to obtain, I'm not ok with the 600 stun guns required to get to that point.

    You say you wanted out input because you are legitimately looking for a way to help.

    Stun Guns, Stun Cuffs and Biotechs please.

    I don't find stun cuffs to be any kind of bottleneck since they're constantly available for a decent rate in the guild store.

    Stun guns were manageable via the guild event store until Malak happened and via fleet until the g12 easing happened.

    Biotechs are a problem but availability via guild store lessens it slightly.

    I wouldn't touch stun cuffs. But I do think stun guns and biotech should have a little increased availability. More on the guns side I think. Maybe add them to guild store as well for the same price as raid gear.
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