Cyanide wanted to know how to ease the crunch

Replies

  • @CG_SBCrumb with regard to us not feeling the easing of crunch pain this is the issue. The issue is math matters. Unless the suggestion is to increase the flow of some of the now current mid-high tier gear (stun guns, eyeballs etc) then we will never feel the ease.

    First (more directed at others who have suggested this as a solution) CG will never swap out gear requirements for existing toons to something we have loads of unused gear for. They created the salvage for using that gear up. That's their answer to it. Even if they did change it to another gear type, like introducing Kryos, it won't mater because:

    A standard player refreshes energy X times a day and gets Y pieces of gear. It can be any gear piece you want. X will always increase Y when it averages out across millions of transactions. Y can be any piece of gear that falls into the grouping we want to solve for here. Whether you're farming for guns or cuffs. It doesn't matter because we all need generic roadblock gear piece Y and we all only get so much energy to spend. Crunching all the numbers the rate of return is 33 energy for one piece of gear probably? Right? They all reside in 10 energy nodes and there's a 33% chance? I could totally be wrong, but with character shards it is so I've always assumed the same for gear, but regardless there is rate chance and as you spend your average payout is a linear progression.

    So one way would be to increase X which is player related to how much they want to spend in crystals. Another is to increase Y which is CG related. Maybe increase the number of drops or increase the chances. They cold also decrease energy costs. Doing any on s small scale however still wouldn't have much of an impact because it's not a static environment.

    Another example. Let's say they increase the currency paid out or inversely reduce the costs for some pieces in stores. That may work, but again only in a static environment. When they jumped from g12.5 to g13 you bump up the required number of items. So they essentially kept it the same pain. You decreased the cost, but increased the number of them you need now. We still feel the same pain. Add in more characters that all need the same gear and we still feel the same. You may have increased the supply side of the equation but you equally increased the demand side.

    CG then increased the number of places you can get certain gear items by introducing them in stores, but at the same time introduced Malak and GAS all competing for the same currency. So now you've kind of decreased the supply for gear because it is now directly competing with other items, but increased the demand because those characters as well all need that gear too.

    So while you give us 2-3 Kryos a day and add in a couple places to get the gear, maybe reduce the cost a bit, etc in a static environment (which no one is asking for) we'd probably feel some relief, but you also keep increasing the demand for it too and have been for some time so even your next step to help ease, if minor, will not be appreciate for some time as there is a large backlog still.

  • Eutus
    173 posts Member
    Agreed. This is a simple and elegant solution. They can even make the new teirs very difficult to 3 star then boom we cant sim them and there is new content for people to play.

    Make them refreshable for crystals and youre selling more crystal packs too, juuuuuust saying.

    @CG_Cyanides @CG_TopHat
  • BB1180 wrote: »
    The reason that people aren't 'feeling' any easing of the gear crunch is because they have largely addressed the wrong issue. That's not to say that the G12+ improvements aren't welcome, because they are, but the real issue lies in the G8-G11 range. The average character needs about 1000 mid-tier, purple gears in that range, and about half of those are composed of only four or five things, like Mk5 Stun Guns, Mk 3 Carbantis, Mk3 Stun Cuffs and a couple more. I'm preparing for JKR and I think he needs 300 Mk3 Carbantis just to get to G11. Never mind everything else I'll need. At a time when new content is being tuned for a full G13 R7 squad, that we still have a huge gear wall beginning at G8 just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.



    Very well said. This whole post is very accurate.
  • Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    The developer's point of view - "We added some more ways to acquire gear, gear flow per month increased so we are eased the grind".

    The player's point of view - "You added some ways to acquire gear but also added many more ways to spend it - new gear levels, new toons, relics, etc. So the difference between amount of gear we get and amount of gear we need is increased, and grind become harder."
  • It's hilarious they think by adding kyrotech to the dailies that it eased our gear crunch. Players have 30+ characters stuck at G8 because of cuffs, carbs, and guns. It takes months to farm them FOR ONE CHARACTER. Not sure if you knew this devs, but it takes 5 to build a squad, that's 5 months for one squad if you're just straight farming!! it's so outrageous how out of touch you guys are. Do devs even play this game? i don't get it man.
  • KKatarn
    507 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Don't forget they also took away Stun Guns from the guild store and from fleet nodes. Oh yeah Cyanides has no idea what crunch we are talking about... :#
    Post edited by KKatarn on
  • Adding a new level to the challenges os the most straightforward way of adding something that all players can benefit from.
  • leef
    13358 posts Member
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.
  • BB1180 wrote: »
    The reason that people aren't 'feeling' any easing of the gear crunch is because they have largely addressed the wrong issue. That's not to say that the G12+ improvements aren't welcome, because they are, but the real issue lies in the G8-G11 range. The average character needs about 1000 mid-tier, purple gears in that range, and about half of those are composed of only four or five things, like Mk5 Stun Guns, Mk 3 Carbantis, Mk3 Stun Cuffs and a couple more. I'm preparing for JKR and I think he needs 300 Mk3 Carbantis just to get to G11. Never mind everything else I'll need. At a time when new content is being tuned for a full G13 R7 squad, that we still have a huge gear wall beginning at G8 just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    100% agree. The end game crunch for G12 finishers and relics is fine how it is for now. The issue is getting characters from G8 to G11 (which then impacts G11-G12 since it's a lot of the same stuff), which while easier than it used to be, is an order of magnitude (or more) too slow now that there are arguably 6 additional gear crunches on top of that (G11-G12, G12 left, G12 right, G12 finisher, relic 1-4, relic 5-7). I'm not talking about catching up (which I understand is impossible without $), I'm talking about wanting to actually participate in the end game someday, not getting farther away from it because something else will be added to move the STARTING line by the time I get there.

    Some of this may boil down to what is seen as end game as that impacts how you think about how easy it should be to get certain gear. Although I've been playing (every day) for a little over 2 years and have 3M GP, am in a guild doing Geo TB and clearing all three raids, I wouldn't consider myself an end game player. If the devs still see anything over G8 as endgame (which it seems they do based on the Hyperdrive bundle descriptions), then that might explain why they are still wanting to protect G8-G11. I think they are wrong and are just frustrating (at least) this player, but I could see how they think that.
  • KKatarn wrote: »
    Don't forget they also took away Stun Guns from the guild store and from fleet nodes. Oh yeah Cyanides has no idea what crunch we are talking about... :#

    They were never in the guild store. They were however, taken away from the fleet store.
  • leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.

    Make it a 20 yr Macallan or Glenlivet....
  • MntMan wrote: »
    @CG_SBCrumb with regard to us not feeling the easing of crunch pain this is the issue. The issue is math matters. Unless the suggestion is to increase the flow of some of the now current mid-high tier gear (stun guns, eyeballs etc) then we will never feel the ease.

    First (more directed at others who have suggested this as a solution) CG will never swap out gear requirements for existing toons to something we have loads of unused gear for. They created the salvage for using that gear up. That's their answer to it. Even if they did change it to another gear type, like introducing Kryos, it won't mater because:

    A standard player refreshes energy X times a day and gets Y pieces of gear. It can be any gear piece you want. X will always increase Y when it averages out across millions of transactions. Y can be any piece of gear that falls into the grouping we want to solve for here. Whether you're farming for guns or cuffs. It doesn't matter because we all need generic roadblock gear piece Y and we all only get so much energy to spend. Crunching all the numbers the rate of return is 33 energy for one piece of gear probably? Right? They all reside in 10 energy nodes and there's a 33% chance? I could totally be wrong, but with character shards it is so I've always assumed the same for gear, but regardless there is rate chance and as you spend your average payout is a linear progression.

    So one way would be to increase X which is player related to how much they want to spend in crystals. Another is to increase Y which is CG related. Maybe increase the number of drops or increase the chances. They cold also decrease energy costs. Doing any on s small scale however still wouldn't have much of an impact because it's not a static environment.

    Another example. Let's say they increase the currency paid out or inversely reduce the costs for some pieces in stores. That may work, but again only in a static environment. When they jumped from g12.5 to g13 you bump up the required number of items. So they essentially kept it the same pain. You decreased the cost, but increased the number of them you need now. We still feel the same pain. Add in more characters that all need the same gear and we still feel the same. You may have increased the supply side of the equation but you equally increased the demand side.

    CG then increased the number of places you can get certain gear items by introducing them in stores, but at the same time introduced Malak and GAS all competing for the same currency. So now you've kind of decreased the supply for gear because it is now directly competing with other items, but increased the demand because those characters as well all need that gear too.

    So while you give us 2-3 Kryos a day and add in a couple places to get the gear, maybe reduce the cost a bit, etc in a static environment (which no one is asking for) we'd probably feel some relief, but you also keep increasing the demand for it too and have been for some time so even your next step to help ease, if minor, will not be appreciate for some time as there is a large backlog still.

    This is the issue. Demand keeps increasing over and over and over. It's why I left the first time. I could get so many resources. But I was getting spread so thin it didn't matter. And I ended up spending a ridiculous amount of money to try and keep up. And got in some trouble with my now wife. Now I'm back as a free to play player and it's the same problems almost 2 years later. With my roster how it was when I left, I expected to be able to get to a point where I could feel like top 200 fleet or arena would be feasible. But all of the old characters that were once relevant aren't anymore. And the characters that are meta worthy are all locked behind limited time events that wont be around for a while. And heres the kicker, those mother suckers are going to need ALL of the gear that my current roster that's trying to catch up needs right now. Leaving me in the lurch.

    Need too much gear. Dont get enough. Start getting more? Now you need 3x as many. <<<<this is why we dont "feel" the easing collectively as a community.
  • Obi1_son wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.

    Make it a 20 yr Macallan or Glenlivet....

    18 year yamazaki for me please.
  • Obi1_son wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.

    Make it a 20 yr Macallan or Glenlivet....

    To each his own. I find the intense smoke of an Islay malt is accentuated by the smoke rising from the carcasses of all my relic characters that were just slaughtered by phase one/wave one of the LSGTB.
  • reading this thread I see a lot of specific suggestions on where to add more gear.
    Honestly I feel like half the players calling Cyanides ignorant are guilty themselves.

    Certainly Cyanides and CG know what gear we need and certainly they can think of adding it to challenges, but the question asked was how to make us feel the ease, not how to grant us the gear...

    Anyway, for my part I am happy with the gear gates around relics and last steps to G13, and really the whole process of getting my meta team up to scratch.
    My problem is the massive backlog of toons which have no impact on arena performance, but which could be used for TB, TW, GAC and to some extent raids.

    For me, the ease could also be felt by some easier way of getting arena obsolete toons to say G11, which at today’s power level is still useless for most purposes, but which would make it realistic for me to catch up some old teams to G12 without stopping entirely all progression on new toons.
    Maybe something inspired by the hyperdrive bundle where it is direct gear tiers and only for select toons, so that it will not influence grind for meta toons.

    Anyway, my sense is an ease would be felt by letting us clear up some of the backlog somehow, without easing up on eg Sith Empire, GR, Seps.
  • For me the reason I don’t feel any ease to the gear crunch is because of the feel of need to hoard.
    There was a moment of relief to stun guns when you could spend GET on gun salvage. Now I will not spend GET1 or GET2 on gear, for the inevitable meta character/ship added to those stores. I need to have 50k, 100k GET saved up in case. I’m not going to spend, when I need hoard to keep up with the next meta.

    Outside arena, this game is TW, TB, GAC & raids. You don’t have any gear relief from GAC. It’s ok, still a great aspect to this game and get some help with mods/zeta/omega. TW gives very little gear help(10 carbs, 2 g12 pieces, etc). Also ok, good part of the game and zetas as well. Raid rewards are random and unreliable. The guild store currency from raids is ok for the gear that is available there. TB rewards a good amount of GET, but as I said, have to hoard that. Nothing currently gives me a sense of easing the gear crunch.

    I think the simplest change would be to make GET1 a gear store and GET2 a character/ship store. No shards in GET1 and no gear in GET2. Let us spend our GET1 currency and not feel like we will be missing out on the next big thing if we do.

    TL:DR. GET1 should be gear only, GET2 should be shards only
  • The good - I have been playing for 4 years and stockpiled a lot of gear that can be used for relics.
    Cuffs (once the bane) have not been a problem for me and others. Reduction of costs and added gear in nodes and game mods help a little.

    The bad- STUN GUNS! Lol as what most of us are saying the same bottlenecks are doubled or tripled down.
    I think The way relics are formatted are great but too bad it’s too late to do that with gear.

    I want ppl to spend money, I want the game to thrive so I can play for another 4 years. Kyros, g13, relics have had the opposite effect on spending for me. It’s not worth it for me to spend on gear because it will only be a drop in a bucket.

    There once was a time where I knew I would get gear in the GET store but now I don’t think I ever should.

    Top 10 in Sith raid should be changed too.
    I’ll just kick my feet up and rely on being a long time player to keep me around or near endgame for the rest of my swgoh career.
  • Stish
    5 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    The bottom line is with the current state of the game getting to g9, or even g10, should be a breeze. Even at g10 it still takes a solid 5+ weeks to get a toon up to g13. If you are a newer player or a returning player, forget about it. It would take these players so long to get squads up to par, it's a joke. I'm not sure why this is even a question for them, toons are basically not worth using until g10. Not to mention the difficulty in getting gear and what they cost in gems has tightened my wallet. Sorry there is just no way on he** I'm spending $100+ on maybe one gear level.
  • leef
    13358 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.

    i'm glad that's what you got out of that comment. Sure, i phrased it poorly, but still.
  • leef wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.

    i'm glad that's what you got out of that comment. Sure, i phrased it poorly, but still.

    Just being snarky. Here’s a more serious stab at it. Yes if they did everything anyone suggested in the forum the game would blow up in a week. Mob rule by trolls wouldn’t go well. There are however, plenty of reasonable, well thought out suggestions here that get buried in nonsense unfortunately.

    If you are suggesting that he is trying to say they have eased the gear crunch, but wants to know why we don’t feel it then I’d say we have answered that pretty well. They have added more walls that are higher and more expensive, and they have not reduced the old ones enough to keep the overall experience in a similar place. That, and removing a MASSIVE quantity of resources by giving out only half a character with Epic confrontation events.

    I think we have a reasonable set of suggestions. Double drop rates on old gear needed up to G11. Put stun guns in the guild store at a reasonable price. They don’t become instantly effortless to farm. Krakens will still buy them to get instant gratification. But it will feel less miserable getting character up to the point of the current end game grinds: G12, G12+, G13/Kyros, and Relics/signal data. Also it will ACTUALLY make a difference in getting new players moving along instead of feeling stagnant for years. That’s a bare minimum.

    No more events requiring 10s of thousands of premium currency to finish getting the reward you already earned, and slightly better reward for places 11-50 of the Sith Raid would also be nice.
  • I don’t care how just let me gear my toons faster. 2 months to get 2-3 toons to g12 and one to r5 is too long. Especially since it means not farming any new toons.

    It got that far that I see guild members bellow 1M GP farming relics to made their bad teams relevant in squad arena for little longer instead of progressing with farming better teams.
  • Funny. People usually use cyanide to ease the crunch
  • For me, the reason I don't feel like anything has changed is because I still have a gear 8 CLS and a gear 7 Thrawn.

    There are so many characters in this game that I'd like to use. Not because they'll get me further ahead in an event, but because they'd be fun to try. There's all sorts characters that are old and not viable in enough places to make them worth gearing up over the newer content that will make a tangible impact on my progression. I was late to get both CLS and Thrawn. Both are useful, but at this late stage spending gear on them is no longer a wise investment. There are other characters that I'd just like to put a squad together for, that while fun, would suck up too many resources that could be used on newer characters.

    As I get new characters that are necessary to help my guild or continue to compete in GAC, the other characters move further and further away from ever being available to me. If you want me to feel like the gear crunch has eased, then let me gear those characters up outside of my normal gear grind. If a character has been in the game for two years and not been touched up or reworked, then there should be a method where I can get them past gear levels 7-10 without spending actual gear on them. Give me six tokens a month that I can use to level up old characters a full level at a time. Or have some event each week that gives me a free level for an old Lightside and old Darkside character below gear level 12.

    I don't want you to increase the gear I get. I like the challenge of managing my resources and stressing over chasing the DS or LS Geo table characters. What I don't like is looking at the 50 characters that I have 7* and knowing they'll never get used because I'll never be able to gear them.

    I want to experience the characters you've put in this game. I would assume the people who made these characters would like us to also be able to experience them. It's hard for me to imagine that these older characters really represent such a large portion of your income that it's worthwhile to frustrate me over them. I don't spend a lot of money on this game, but I have crossed the point where I think the money I spend will change anything. Now the more I feel like I'm falling behind, the less I want to spend.
  • BB1180 wrote: »
    They don't even have to touch the existing gear to address this. They could just take the same basic concept of the Hyperdrive Bundle and create a new item/currency that instantly takes the player's chosen character to G10 or G11 and make them available only through monthly login rewards as a means of controlling their distribution.

    Like that idea!
  • Two best options.

    1. New challenge tier. I dont think 5 a month is too many(plenty of other gates), but, if it is, just lkwer the new tier to 3 not 3-5.

    2. For Hux, new SiT, etc, use the gear we have thousands of, like mk9 data pads. I have 3,000 of them. Why not use 300 each on Hux and SiT instead of cuffs and stun guns?

    Alternative options include:
    1. Adding stun guns, eyeballs, cuffs, etc to popular nodes (like signals).
    2. Putting them in GAC stores and quadrupling GAC rewards.
  • leef
    13358 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    KKatarn wrote: »
    He is lying. Because i really don't see how one of the people responsible for the game doesn't know that almost every character needs STUN GUNS between G9-G11.

    The alternative would be a titanic level of incompetence and that is a lot harder to believe. :#

    He's lying about what exactly? Have you read the anwser he gave? Let me refresh your memory:
    A: CG_Cyanides - No, I haven't forgot and we are planning more. We added Kyros to Daily Activities completion and TW rewards, reduced the crystal and shard shop cost of G12 and added G12+ to shard shop, reduced the energy cost of Ship Energy, increased the refresh rate of Ship energy, and added G12+ to Ship nodes. Actually, my question back is define "easing"? I hear easing a lot, but it is very subjective. Mathematically, we have eased the gear grind, but that doesn't mean that players actually "feel" the easing. This isn't being snarky, I am just genuinely interested in what everyone's definition of easing is to see if I can some how help that feeling.

    I think he’s being called a liar for not knowing what easing the gear crunch is or how to make the players feel the easing. If he’s the lead developer of in game economy he has to know the biggest choke points of gear in the game. To say he doesn’t know what it is, sounds disingenuous or if he truly doesn’t is a bit alarming and is another red flag that the devs are out of touch with the community and the needs in this game. They know what they need to do, but until they feel a crunch themselves, they won’t do what’s necessary for the good of the community and the long term health of the game

    except he doesn't say that he doesn't know what easing the gear crunch is, it's evident from his comment that he actually does.
    Obviously he knows the biggest choke points, but he's also aware of the fact that the gearcrunch is by design. That basically means we're always short on one resource or the other. The only thing that really matters is the rate of progression, which they have increased. With that in mind, what he asked isn't that unreasonable or out of touch. Please note that he's trying to help with that feeling, not to help players gear faster.
    Also, what they need to do and what (some) players think they need to do are often two entirely diffent things. I'm convinced that if they based their decision making in terms of rate of progression/gearcruch etc entirely on the forum, this game would have been in much worse shape than it is now.

    If he doesn’t want to actually ease gearing, but wants to know how to help with the unpleasant feelings of the crunch I have a suggestion. I find that the gear grind doesn’t bother me when I drink scotch instead of playing SWGOH. So if he could send me one bottle of Lagavulin 16 yo every month we would be square.

    i'm glad that's what you got out of that comment. Sure, i phrased it poorly, but still.

    Just being snarky. Here’s a more serious stab at it. Yes if they did everything anyone suggested in the forum the game would blow up in a week. Mob rule by trolls wouldn’t go well. There are however, plenty of reasonable, well thought out suggestions here that get buried in nonsense unfortunately.
    Ofcourse there are plenty of reasonable, well thought out suggestions here. It's the nonsense those suggestions get burried in that i have a problem with.
    If you are suggesting that he is trying to say they have eased the gear crunch, but wants to know why we don’t feel it then I’d say we have answered that pretty well. They have added more walls that are higher and more expensive, and they have not reduced the old ones enough to keep the overall experience in a similar place. That, and removing a MASSIVE quantity of resources by giving out only half a character with Epic confrontation events.

    I think we have a reasonable set of suggestions. Double drop rates on old gear needed up to G11. Put stun guns in the guild store at a reasonable price. They don’t become instantly effortless to farm. Krakens will still buy them to get instant gratification. But it will feel less miserable getting character up to the point of the current end game grinds: G12, G12+, G13/Kyros, and Relics/signal data. Also it will ACTUALLY make a difference in getting new players moving along instead of feeling stagnant for years. That’s a bare minimum.

    No more events requiring 10s of thousands of premium currency to finish getting the reward you already earned, and slightly better reward for places 11-50 of the Sith Raid would also be nice.

    The awnser being given in a way justifies the question being asked.
  • Train wrote: »
    BB1180 wrote: »
    ... but the real issue lies in the G8-G11 range. The average character needs about 1000 mid-tier, purple gears in that range, and about half of those are composed of only four or five things....At a time when new content is being tuned for a full G13 R7 squad, that we still have a huge gear wall beginning at G8 just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    100% agree. The end game crunch for G12 finishers and relics is fine how it is for now. The issue is getting characters from G8 to G11....which while easier than it used to be, is an order of magnitude (or more) too slow now that there are arguably 6 additional gear crunches on top of that (G11-G12, G12 left, G12 right, G12 finisher, relic 1-4, relic 5...

    I think we need to get any from these arguments. They just don’t hold any weight. If you were “endgame” you’d see that the G8 wall disappears very quickly as you either run out of chars to push to G11 (not likely) or you start to focus on the teams you already have geared. (Best advice).

    I still see players posting the max # of chars that need a piece of gear and that’s not accurate to our argument/situation. We were never supposed to build up our entire roster at once. You choose the squads you like and gear them till they are viable/dominant and then move on to another team.

    When you focus and gear up a team the “right way” you’ll find that the G12.5 > G13 Wall takes a long time to climb. In that time you will build up those G8 pieces faster than you realize. Challenges + Rancor + Shard Shop (guns) will net you enough gear for your next G8 project.

    I used to but I’ve recently stopped buying carbs, cuffs etc from the shops as I seem to have enough when I need them. Kyros and Finishers are choking me out but that low end gear crunch goes away in time.
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