Cyanide wanted to know how to ease the crunch

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  • No more raid only gear and updated challenges would be awesome. Stun gun grind sucks, but I'm stuck on furnaces atm. And this is just a pet peeve, but let us request all gear from guild mates, and set the amount. Only being able to get 2 furnaces a day really bites.
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    leef wrote: »
    The awnser being given in a way justifies the question being asked.

    Well many of us were answering an entirely different question which is how to ease the gear crunch. There are endless ways to do that obviously. Asking different ways to approach that is entirely reasonable.

    However if the designers of the economy are asking why it doesn’t feel easier then that is not justified. They are really clueless if they don’t know why. They have made it worse in the aggregate. They are giving with one hand and taking with the other. So no, it doesn’t feel easier because of the new progression systems they have spent hours and hours discussing and designing and implementing in the game. How on earth do they not understand why it doesn’t feel easier after putting 500 kyros on a character who still needs tons of hard to get old gear and now relics too?

    I completely understand why it feels condescending and disingenuous to some people when the devs rattle off a list of things they have done to ease gear acquisition and leave out the things they have done to increase demand that dwarf the former. Then they shrug and ask us what’s wrong.
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    TheRHOMBUS wrote: »
    Train wrote: »
    BB1180 wrote: »
    ... but the real issue lies in the G8-G11 range. The average character needs about 1000 mid-tier, purple gears in that range, and about half of those are composed of only four or five things....At a time when new content is being tuned for a full G13 R7 squad, that we still have a huge gear wall beginning at G8 just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    100% agree. The end game crunch for G12 finishers and relics is fine how it is for now. The issue is getting characters from G8 to G11....which while easier than it used to be, is an order of magnitude (or more) too slow now that there are arguably 6 additional gear crunches on top of that (G11-G12, G12 left, G12 right, G12 finisher, relic 1-4, relic 5...

    I think we need to get any from these arguments. They just don’t hold any weight. If you were “endgame” you’d see that the G8 wall disappears very quickly as you either run out of chars to push to G11 (not likely) or you start to focus on the teams you already have geared. (Best advice).

    I still see players posting the max # of chars that need a piece of gear and that’s not accurate to our argument/situation. We were never supposed to build up our entire roster at once. You choose the squads you like and gear them till they are viable/dominant and then move on to another team.

    When you focus and gear up a team the “right way” you’ll find that the G12.5 > G13 Wall takes a long time to climb. In that time you will build up those G8 pieces faster than you realize. Challenges + Rancor + Shard Shop (guns) will net you enough gear for your next G8 project.

    I used to but I’ve recently stopped buying carbs, cuffs etc from the shops as I seem to have enough when I need them. Kyros and Finishers are choking me out but that low end gear crunch goes away in time.

    Dec 2015 player here who fastidiously avoids gearing anyone that isn’t multi use/meta/vital for endgame content. I’m still very cautious with g9-11 gear. Especially since we still need it to make g12 pieces. They are still a crunch.

    Also we have been given a long break from new characters. Prepare for an influx of episode 9 characters that we will need to gear from scratch who will make currently geared characters obsolete.

    And long timers aren’t the only players. It has taken 4 years to get to the point I am. New players don’t need to instantly have 5.1 million GP accounts. However, I think it’s also good that it not take them 4 years to get to where elder players are. A hyperdrive bundle is no substitute for DRASTICALLY increasing old gear availability. 2 years is a reasonable amount of time for new accounts to progress to be able to start being on the low end of where the big boys/girls play.

    As for high end gear, we are supposed to be crunched. That’s fine. That’s what pays the bills. The only area where it could be tweaked (that the devs might consider):

    1. More rewards from GAC. The devs already said they intend to increase our token rewards there. I devote 100% of those to kyros now, and will continue to do so. They probably won’t give us much, but I’ll take it.

    2. Better Sith Raid rewards for places 11-50. I want my guild mates to get good rewards too so we all do better in TB/TW. I want to compete with outsiders more that allies. And G12+ is crunched a tad heavily.

    3. Stop putting 500 kyros on new characters. 100 in the gear 13 finisher is bad enough. I don’t think they’ll ever give this one up actually but it’s one of the worst anti-player moves that made the gear crunch harsh on the top end. Just brutal. And they told us it was to reduce reliance on old gear which is false since these characters still have horrible gear requirements.

    Those are the things they could do at the top end.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    The awnser being given in a way justifies the question being asked.

    Well many of us were answering an entirely different question which is how to ease the gear crunch. There are endless ways to do that obviously. Asking different ways to approach that is entirely reasonable.

    However if the designers of the economy are asking why it doesn’t feel easier then that is not justified. They are really clueless if they don’t know why. They have made it worse in the aggregate. They are giving with one hand and taking with the other. So no, it doesn’t feel easier because of the new progression systems they have spent hours and hours discussing and designing and implementing in the game. How on earth do they not understand why it doesn’t feel easier after putting 500 kyros on a character who still needs tons of hard to get old gear and now relics too?

    I completely understand why it feels condescending and disingenuous to some people when the devs rattle off a list of things they have done to ease gear acquisition and leave out the things they have done to increase demand that dwarf the former. Then they shrug and ask us what’s wrong.

    Again, it's not like they don't know that, it's by design. Assuming they don't know that based on that comment and calling them liars/disingenuous seems silly to me. It's okay to disagree with the developers, it's almost a given that the playerbase will disagree with the devs on this topic.
    I get what you're saying, but how many players in this topic have you seen acknowledging what they've done to ease the geargrind? Are they all liars and disingenious? For example, your last sentence is one heck of an open interpretation of what they actually said. I mean, i get it, but can't really call them out on being disingenious if you're intentionally interpreting what they said in the worst way possible because it fits your narrative.
    Obviously there are different standards for the players and for the devs, but still. Anyway, everything that can be said has probably been said already, so yea.. it is what it is.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    leef wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    The awnser being given in a way justifies the question being asked.

    Well many of us were answering an entirely different question which is how to ease the gear crunch. There are endless ways to do that obviously. Asking different ways to approach that is entirely reasonable.

    However if the designers of the economy are asking why it doesn’t feel easier then that is not justified. They are really clueless if they don’t know why. They have made it worse in the aggregate. They are giving with one hand and taking with the other. So no, it doesn’t feel easier because of the new progression systems they have spent hours and hours discussing and designing and implementing in the game. How on earth do they not understand why it doesn’t feel easier after putting 500 kyros on a character who still needs tons of hard to get old gear and now relics too?

    I completely understand why it feels condescending and disingenuous to some people when the devs rattle off a list of things they have done to ease gear acquisition and leave out the things they have done to increase demand that dwarf the former. Then they shrug and ask us what’s wrong.

    Again, it's not like they don't know that, it's by design. Assuming they don't know that based on that comment and calling them liars/disingenuous seems silly to me. It's okay to disagree with the developers, it's almost a given that the playerbase will disagree with the devs on this topic.
    I get what you're saying, but how many players in this topic have you seen acknowledging what they've done to ease the geargrind? Are they all liars and disingenious? For example, your last sentence is one heck of an open interpretation of what they actually said. I mean, i get it, but can't really call them out on being disingenious if you're intentionally interpreting what they said in the worst way possible because it fits your narrative.
    Obviously there are different standards for the players and for the devs, but still. Anyway, everything that can be said has probably been said already, so yea.. it is what it is.

    I didn’t say that I think they are liars... at least not about this. lol

    I said I understand why it feels disingenuous to some. And I don’t have a narrative. And I’m not interpreting harshly. I’m not interpreting at all. They listed things they have done to make gearing easier. Then they asked why it doesn’t feel easier. I asked how could they possibly not know, but I didn’t provide an answer to that question. I simply acknowledged why some have reached the conclusion that they have.

    And yes, people who can’t acknowledge that the devs have made some improvements might be dishonest in leaving that out to paint a false narrative. Or maybe they are uninformed or willfully blind which isn’t the exact same thing, but is a form of dishonesty. Or maybe it’s just emotional venting out of frustration that isn’t meant to be a comprehensive overview of the situation. Those comments aren’t helpful or constructive. However, that’s not relevant to what I said.

    Aside from one joke (saying that drinking alleviates the gear grind) I haven’t accused them of anything other than asking a strange question. After which I tried to take them at their word, and offer a serious response which takes into account how things may look from their perspective. I even got accused being a shill because I acknowledged they need to make money.

    Can you at least see that considering they probably had hours of meetings discussing new ways to gate progress, had statisticians prepare spreadsheets on how long it should take and how much it should cost, spent programmer and art team time on new gate gear, and have been tracking progress since then that it’s odd they have no idea why we feel the grind so harshly? Is it unreasonable to guess hundreds of working hours figuring out how to make a slow wall to climb? Is it unreasonable to at least scratch you head and wonder why they ask that since it’s exactly the way they designed it? That is not any kind of accusation. I just genuinely don’t get how they can ask that seriously. Especially since they saw how much people complained about gear before. They referenced how hard the gear grind is in past Q&As, and they also answered a question about dropping G13 and Relics on us so close together in the one before last I believe. They are clearly intelligent people. So I don’t understand how it’s a mystery to them.

    What I do understand completely is people coming to a conclusion that the question wasn’t sincere. I have tried to treat it as if it was. But still. Struggling to understand how.
  • Its like someone said on the last page. It's not about actually easing the gear crunch, it's about making us feel like they're easing the gear crunch.

    I bet in their surveys that everyone answered that the gear crunch was the worst part of the game, and most people feel that they cannot progress well without spending. That won't lead to good retention going forward.

    So, now they want us to feel like they're 'doing something' to help us progress more quickly. Thats why the answer of "by the numbers they are easing", because they are actually adding more gear... but its a small impact in terms of the rate of gearing, and increase crazy gearing needs they're demanding on newer characters.

    Sorta like Tesco, though, every little bit helps. So I'm glad for any help they can give us but when you're dropping 200 energy and getting 1 Carbanti, or Mk9 Eyeball, or Mk6 Droid caller, etc. then it's never going to feel like this game isn't squeezing you on the gear.
  • Varaben
    33 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    The reality is whenever you remove one bottleneck you create another. They’ve created a virtually endless treadmill with g13 and relics, so stun guns aren’t really the problem anymore. I’d rather they just cut the cost of farming regular/hard energy nodes in half which makes everything easier to farm and allows new players to get characters more quickly. That’s simpler I think and doesn’t require them to code any new challenges or balance or anything. Just make 6 energy nodes 3 and 20 energy nodes 10, etc. gear crunch solved and makes farming all those hard node only characters easier.

    Another easy thing in the same vein is cut the raid tickets cost in half or raise the 600 ticket per person count. Let’s us raid more (more content without development time) and helps ease gear crunch. Again, easy. Stop wasting time on big monster content pieces like LSTB that cannibalizes existing content. Raids don’t require more time if you don’t want (you can just register), And those who participate can get more key gear.

    These aren’t revolutionary or creative ideas that CG hasn’t thought of. They just have no incentive to give us more gear. I think they’re underestimating the power of community good will though.
  • TheRHOMBUS wrote: »
    Train wrote: »
    BB1180 wrote: »
    ... but the real issue lies in the G8-G11 range. The average character needs about 1000 mid-tier, purple gears in that range, and about half of those are composed of only four or five things....At a time when new content is being tuned for a full G13 R7 squad, that we still have a huge gear wall beginning at G8 just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    100% agree. The end game crunch for G12 finishers and relics is fine how it is for now. The issue is getting characters from G8 to G11....which while easier than it used to be, is an order of magnitude (or more) too slow now that there are arguably 6 additional gear crunches on top of that (G11-G12, G12 left, G12 right, G12 finisher, relic 1-4, relic 5...

    I think we need to get any from these arguments. They just don’t hold any weight. If you were “endgame” you’d see that the G8 wall disappears very quickly as you either run out of chars to push to G11 (not likely) or you start to focus on the teams you already have geared. (Best advice).

    I still see players posting the max # of chars that need a piece of gear and that’s not accurate to our argument/situation. We were never supposed to build up our entire roster at once. You choose the squads you like and gear them till they are viable/dominant and then move on to another team.

    When you focus and gear up a team the “right way” you’ll find that the G12.5 > G13 Wall takes a long time to climb. In that time you will build up those G8 pieces faster than you realize. Challenges + Rancor + Shard Shop (guns) will net you enough gear for your next G8 project.

    I used to but I’ve recently stopped buying carbs, cuffs etc from the shops as I seem to have enough when I need them. Kyros and Finishers are choking me out but that low end gear crunch goes away in time.

    with epic confrontations they pretty much took away a whole shop (yes in theory you have a choice to buy gear but lets be realistic > you dont)
    they cut the GET 1 income basically by half with the new tbs combined
    (yes in theory you could run hoth, but well look above)
    so one of the main ressources of stun gun salvage is pretty much gone
    same for mark 6 medpacks
    they added mark 5 droidcallers to like half the g13 pieces which you still can only BUY or get randomly from rancor (taking these out of the loot table in sithraid at t6 and above isnt helping)


    they added g12+ to ship nodes which is nice but at the same time they told us we should not be forced to make a decision on our own there so they removed guns from ship nodes
    now stunguns compete with kyros, g12 left pieces, character nodes if you still have stuff left, and the challenge part of eyeballs (the other part basically has to be bought anyways)

    so all this combined may ease the part to get to g13 but pretty much only if you start from g12+3
    the whole relic farming in cantina decreased the shard shop currency income by a lot (the option to farm kylos double node is basically gone)

    so i srsly cant imagine how adding 3 kyros a day and uping the random gear pieces to 5 is even offsetting the stuff they took away from us in return
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