Q&A: Sandbagging Response

Replies

  • TVF
    36489 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    I can't help but wonder if the GP bug is messing up TW match-ups even more this go. Our guild has 18 of us over 5 million GP. Our opponents have 29 at 5+ million including 6 over 6 million (we have none over 6 million). It's an absolute route. Oh....and they're "shorthanded".

    Rout.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    I can't help but wonder if the GP bug is messing up TW match-ups even more this go. Our guild has 18 of us over 5 million GP. Our opponents have 29 at 5+ million including 6 over 6 million (we have none over 6 million). It's an absolute route. Oh....and they're "shorthanded".

    Rout.

    Thanks.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Key word: Assume.[/quote]

    Ok then...there is obvious intent here.
    People are assuming no intent.
  • We are in the middle of a sandbagged TW at the moment. We are a 180M GP guild and are fighting against a 217M GP guild. It’s obvious and blatant sandbagging ****! Here are some pics from their .gg profile ykfb43wx2l9y.jpeg
    l4m9dk9zm8yg.jpeg

    956jp6qydo8d.jpeg

    I know it’s hard to prove but this one is ridiculously obvious!ttbmksom53vo.png
  • How many people have you had join, just out of curiosity? Also I could have made the same claim for our current territory war, another round of us having more players against a higher GP guild with fewer participants, but we are winning, so clearly it having more people join is always advantageous.
  • We’ve had 49/50 which I can’t complain about
  • Valariel
    161 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Here is an example of such a match up. My guild (230M, with 49 signed up) was paired against this guild (250M, with ~45 signed up). These are the numbers for the full guild, but I'm sure you can see that it's still incredibly uneven. Some of this is due to differences in roster focus, but their average player is 400k GP higher than our average player.

    We have no way of knowing if they intentionally sat players out or they are just TW optional, etc. But this really hurts guilds like ours who have very high participation and regularly get matched to guilds 20m+ GP above us.

    y0aja4rip7te.jpg
  • Going in with fewer members isn't always an advantage. It depends on the guilds. This is our current matchup:

    3brvd1skpadt.jpg

    And this is how it's going so far:

    yexiyn0c1eou.png

    There are lots of variables to it, so "sandbagging" isn't necessarily either good or bad.

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    There are lots of variables to it, so "sandbagging" isn't necessarily either good or bad.

    Since there are lots of variables to it, sandbagging could still be good in this case as well. I doubt the (un)intentional sandbagging is the reason for the loss.
  • Sandbagging happens and CG algorithm promotes it.
    Even if guilds aren't doing it, CG INTENTIONALLY is..
  • Sandbagging happens and CG algorithm promotes it.
    Even if guilds aren't doing it, CG INTENTIONALLY is..

    For that to be the case, the algorithm would have to be specifically setting full participation guilds against shorthanded ones, what evidence do you have to suggest this isn't just random?
  • We registered 28 players trying to sandbag and cheat and we still lost... even the cheats are bugged in swgoh
  • We went up against a guild with a higher GP that cleared our board in 2 hours. Now, if they are organized enough to clear us in 2 hours, I would think they should have been able to get their full roster together and be against a closer opponent.
  • nottenst wrote: »
    We went up against a guild with a higher GP that cleared our board in 2 hours. Now, if they are organized enough to clear us in 2 hours, I would think they should have been able to get their full roster together and be against a closer opponent.

    Over Christmas?
  • nottenst wrote: »
    We went up against a guild with a higher GP that cleared our board in 2 hours. Now, if they are organized enough to clear us in 2 hours, I would think they should have been able to get their full roster together and be against a closer opponent.

    Over Christmas?

    Yes, just this week. We couldn't believe that the day after the Christmas they organized themselves to wipe us out in 2 hours.
  • nottenst wrote: »

    Yes, just this week. We couldn't believe that the day after the Christmas they organized themselves to wipe us out in 2 hours.

    Day after Christmas nobody is doing anything often, I meant you're expecting them to be calling people out on Christmas day?
  • nottenst wrote: »
    nottenst wrote: »
    We went up against a guild with a higher GP that cleared our board in 2 hours. Now, if they are organized enough to clear us in 2 hours, I would think they should have been able to get their full roster together and be against a closer opponent.

    Over Christmas?

    Yes, just this week. We couldn't believe that the day after the Christmas they organized themselves to wipe us out in 2 hours.

    What else would they do? Not attack you because it was xmas yesterday? most people have the day after xmas off and people play this game in their free time. So... makes sense people play the game on the day after xmas.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    nottenst wrote: »
    nottenst wrote: »
    We went up against a guild with a higher GP that cleared our board in 2 hours. Now, if they are organized enough to clear us in 2 hours, I would think they should have been able to get their full roster together and be against a closer opponent.

    Over Christmas?

    Yes, just this week. We couldn't believe that the day after the Christmas they organized themselves to wipe us out in 2 hours.

    If they organize well at other times, why not now as well? Most of the attack phase happened on the 27th - an almost normal work day, here in most of Europe.
  • Waqui wrote: »

    If they organize well at other times, why not now as well? Most of the attack phase happened on the 27th - an almost normal work day, here in most of Europe.

    That example shows it's not about the 27th, but your point still stands.
  • It was much worse before changes done last year.
    But solution is easy - most important factor for marchmaking should be Average GP of members.
  • Mysticus wrote: »
    It was much worse before changes done last year.
    But solution is easy - most important factor for marchmaking should be Average GP of members.

    Horrible idea
  • "Shorthanded"
    Fits the situation better. No intent.
    Then we can focus on the real issue: whether the matching provides an advantage to the shorthanded team.

    Shorthanded it is.

    Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.
  • StarSon wrote: »

    Shorthanded it is.

    Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

    Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »

    Shorthanded it is.

    Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

    Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

    You can still be at an advantage in one factor even if you're at a disadvantage on other factors. You can still have an advantage from sandbagging/shorthanding/whatever even if you lose.
  • Waqui wrote: »

    You can still be at an advantage in one factor even if you're at a disadvantage on other factors. You can still have an advantage from sandbagging/shorthanding/whatever even if you lose.

    You can, but there is no proof that you do, just speculation based on personal experience, much as my personal experience could make me say more participants is better, but I honestly don't care either way and think there are more important factors. If you want to put in 25 players maximum because it may increase win rates, that's your problem.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    Shorthanded it is.

    Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

    Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

    You can still be at an advantage in one factor even if you're at a disadvantage on other factors. You can still have an advantage from sandbagging/shorthanding/whatever even if you lose.

    If the advantage it gives doesn't change the outcome (winning or losing) then it isnt really much of an advantage is it?

    A good analogy is that the tread on shoes gives an advantage on the basketball court but it doesn't mean one team or another will win... that usually is based on other factors like what guild is most active and has a strategy
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »

    You can still be at an advantage in one factor even if you're at a disadvantage on other factors. You can still have an advantage from sandbagging/shorthanding/whatever even if you lose.

    You can, but there is no proof that you do, just speculation based on personal experience,..

    There may not be hard evidence / proof, but I still believe it's and advantage. That's my personal experience after having been on both ends of the stick. Feel free to prove me wrong.

    ... much as my personal experience could make me say more participants is better,...

    It could, yes, but does it?
    but I honestly don't care either way and think there are more important factors.

    I believe it's a quite important factor.
    If you want to put in 25 players maximum because it may increase win rates, that's your problem.

    Not really relevant

  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »

    Shorthanded it is.

    Shorthanding a TW will almost always give you an advantage, as has been shown many times in this thread.

    Bar all the clearly irrelevant examples I've given each territory war this conversation has been active for. There is no way to guarantee an advantage is given, just as my examples are not proof that having the bigger guild is an advantage, there are other factors.

    You can still be at an advantage in one factor even if you're at a disadvantage on other factors. You can still have an advantage from sandbagging/shorthanding/whatever even if you lose.

    If the advantage it gives doesn't change the outcome (winning or losing) then it isnt really much of an advantage is it?

    A good analogy is that the tread on shoes gives an advantage on the basketball court but it doesn't mean one team or another will win... that usually is based on other factors like what guild is most active and has a strategy

    Having a better tread than the opponent team could still be an advantage - even if you lose or are at a disadvantage overall.

    A boxer having a significantly longer reach than his opponent still has an advantage in that factor - whether he wins or not.

  • thecarterologist958
    1111 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Waqui wrote: »
    There may not be hard evidence / proof, but I still believe it's and advantage. That's my personal experience after having been on both ends of the stick. Feel free to prove me wrong.

    Believe what you will, my point is you can't prove either way, just as I can't prove you wrong, there is no proof you are right.
    Waqui wrote: »
    It could, yes, but does it?

    No, because correlation is not causation, same as with your experiences.
    Waqui wrote: »
    Not really relevant

    Given 25 is as shorthanded as you could go, so it would presumably yield the best results, I would say it has relevance.

    I now realise how awkward this type of post can be to reply to...
  • nottenst wrote: »

    Yes, just this week. We couldn't believe that the day after the Christmas they organized themselves to wipe us out in 2 hours.

    Day after Christmas nobody is doing anything often, I meant you're expecting them to be calling people out on Christmas day?

    If they are organized enough to complete 190 or more battles over 2 hours, then I would expect that they could have had more members participating if they wanted to. That's all.

    We have never seen an opposing guild able to clean us out so quickly even when previously outmatched. It just looked suspicious.
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