A disturbing discussion about TB

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Are any other guilds out there having “the talk” about switching to Hoth for next TB? Sacrificing GET2 just to prove a point to CG that the LSTB is not entertaining content based off of a comment made by CG TopHat saying they will be monitoring player participation and may intervene if stats show they should?

I’m a pretty open minded fella, but doesn’t the mere fact that these discussions are going on at this time mean there could be relevant reasons to alter the content just a bit?

Or is it just me?

Replies

  • You are discussing taking worse rewards, slowing down your own progress (if anything they'd benefit more from you cornerig yourself and later eventually buying the gear that you could have gotten for hitting deploy), just to prove a point that's not going to be heard this way?

    Most compeitive guilds will do Geo TB anyway, the first to max both capital ship clearly having an advantage in most areas of the game, so you are really only sabotaging yourself.
  • SerWulfgar wrote: »
    You are discussing taking worse rewards, slowing down your own progress (if anything they'd benefit more from you cornerig yourself and later eventually buying the gear that you could have gotten for hitting deploy), just to prove a point that's not going to be heard this way?

    Most compeitive guilds will do Geo TB anyway, the first to max both capital ship clearly having an advantage in most areas of the game, so you are really only sabotaging yourself.
    Indeed you are denying some MK2 tokens, but you gain additional MK1 tokens which could be crucial for Malak, or GAS. So you might gain the upper hand in SA while being at disadvantage in FA.

    And then i did not talk about fully crafted gear etc.
    It was not very clear from my post, but I was referring mostly to the 225-250m+ GP range, guilds that would more likely have an impact with such a protest in the first place. If a below 180m GP guild chooses to do Hoth it won't send a signal, around 180m is the threshold to max Hoth with relative ease.

    Regarding gear, you are comparing G12+, finisher and relic pieces to borderline hAAT-tier loot.

    To be clear, I'm far from enjoying the difficulty if LS Geo, I'm not advocating for it and wouldn't mind if we only had DS for another couple of months, but considering how severely TW performance impacts the decisions of bigger guilds (see r4+ Bistan and SRP) I see no chance of convincing everyone to sit one or more TBs out.
  • Naw
    946 posts Member
    To be able to accomplish this it'd require for the TB to actually be running. Maybe next year?

    The choice is between getting a few tokens for ships vs a ton for Malak/GAS and actually being able to play vs just deploying, this is an easy one.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    You are discussing taking worse rewards, slowing down your own progress (if anything they'd benefit more from you cornerig yourself and later eventually buying the gear that you could have gotten for hitting deploy), just to prove a point that's not going to be heard this way?

    Most compeitive guilds will do Geo TB anyway, the first to max both capital ship clearly having an advantage in most areas of the game, so you are really only sabotaging yourself.
    Indeed you are denying some MK2 tokens, but you gain additional MK1 tokens which could be crucial for Malak, or GAS. So you might gain the upper hand in SA while being at disadvantage in FA.

    And then i did not talk about fully crafted gear etc.
    It was not very clear from my post, but I was referring mostly to the 225-250m+ GP range, guilds that would more likely have an impact with such a protest in the first place. If a below 180m GP guild chooses to do Hoth it won't send a signal, around 180m is the threshold to max Hoth with relative ease.

    Regarding gear, you are comparing G12+, finisher and relic pieces to borderline hAAT-tier loot.

    To be clear, I'm far from enjoying the difficulty if LS Geo, I'm not advocating for it and wouldn't mind if we only had DS for another couple of months, but considering how severely TW performance impacts the decisions of bigger guilds (see r4+ Bistan and SRP) I see no chance of convincing everyone to sit one or more TBs out.

    Same here. 221m gp. If we are getting 9-11* on ls, we are better off there even though we would be at a net loss over ds geo.

    I don't think purposefully trying to send a message will work if you are at a loss making that choice merely since we are also all competing against eachother.. Even if my guild doesn't enjoy ls geo just like everyone else, the choice is down to math.
  • Blackbeardpepe
    1422 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    190mil, the only discussion we had is going to lightside hoth because we don't want people to get mad at lightside geo and quit. So that's a real thing.
  • I guess my point is that even that this conversation exists is disheartening. You have to pick enjoying the game and having a chance (hoth) vs suffering through largely unplayable content to keep up the hoard mentality (LSTB Geo)

    I totally get the reason CG implemented the difficulty. Endgame content. Love it, love the idea of it. But when it loses the spirit of the game (enjoying Star Wars game content) so much so that what I can only estimate as a large portion of the player base (using my guild alliance of 14 50ish player guilds) is taking votes on which to do, something needs to be altered or at very least reconsidered heavily.
  • In our 200 mil guild, we as officers have come to the conclusion that we will stick to Geo, but do a Hoth TB every 4-5 times. This will allow the members to beat up on something and get a morale boost, as well as getting more GET for Malek/GS.
  • Ok I see what it says. By no means am I suggesting any kind of boycott. I actually just posted a curious dilemma that I figured many people were going through and was hoping for spirited, constructive discussion on how to tackle it by hearing others experiences. Devs, my bad. 🤘
  • leef
    13358 posts Member
    I'm with @RandomSithLord on this one. Hurting your own guild in terms of rewards to send a message to the devs will most likely not have the desired effect, so you'll end up just hurting your own guild.
    In terms of "fun" there's not a lot between the two for me personally. For Geo i can atleast try to get some extra points for my guild, for Hoth i just skip most combat missions because we will get max stars anyway.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • We are planning on running DS Geo and LS Hoth for the foreseeable future. We are almost an 180 million GP guild and during the short little LS Geo we got 2 stars. There is no way we are going to be ready for LS Geo any time soon. Might as well enjoy destroying 1 TB and boost morale.
  • CG completely invalidated all of our preparations for the Geo TB by making even Phase 1 almost impossible.

    The least that we can do in return is to completely invalidate all of their development hours by choosing Hoth.

    But it would take a significant number of guilds doing that for CG to even notice.
  • Kyno
    22217 posts Moderator
    I dont think this conversation is any more disturbing than the other times new content is released and the conversation revolves around breaking up long term groups of people to push to do higher tiers.

    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.
  • AlexanderG
    312 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    I think squads with synergy at G13 with r7 should be clearing phase 1 at the very least, and possibly phase 2 as well. Keep phases 3 and 4 as the future proofed bits based on whatever power increases CG is planning (new mods, character level increases, higher relics).
    As it stands it feels like it this bit of new content is miles out of reach of many players - even those with years of playing the game.
  • Naw
    946 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Kyno wrote: »
    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.

    I need GET1, what is the equivalent amount of stars from LS Geo compared to Hoth, which includes rewards also from specials? 10*? 15*?

    Getting 10 is not probable for a guild of 200M GP.
    With this TB, hearing about R7 teams getting destroyed, with no way to strengthen characters is demoralizing.

    This is what bothers me also. They have given us content that cannot be properly enjoyed for who knows how long, a year maybe?
  • I mean, we’re switching but it’s less about proving a point and more about it being ludicrously difficult. We’ll have better luck on Hoth anyway, leave Geonosis to the Separatists.
  • Gifafi
    2485 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    I dont think this conversation is any more disturbing than the other times new content is released and the conversation revolves around breaking up long term groups of people to push to do higher tiers.

    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.

    Problem with that is there are people who actually want to play the game and have fun. I know that is a foreign concept for certain people... At least when Hsith came out, our best teams weren't being decimated. As poor of a comparison as it is, Fully developed teams were able to actually do something. With this TB, hearing about R7 teams getting destroyed, with no way to strengthen characters is demoralizing. Why play content where your teams one spent actual money on get destroyed? I don't see that as an incentive to spend, more to quit. That is the difference between now and all the other times challenging content was released. We actually could still gear/ mod or try different team compositions. There is none of that here.

    "best" teams were being absolutely wrecked by hsth. hsth led to many many guilds breaking up/merging/etc. It's been a few days since dsgeotb started and people are already coming up with strats to get more stars with teams people wouldn't/didn't think of at first. I'm def not saying it isn't tuned too hard at all, but I think we forget how devastating hsth was when it first came out. Soon more people will find things like the pao/chirrut/han p3, the resistance strat for p1, deathstorm etc. Again, to be clear, it's insanely difficult as is, just saying that other raids were never "fun" until we got good at them. imo, at least
  • Kyno
    22217 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    I dont think this conversation is any more disturbing than the other times new content is released and the conversation revolves around breaking up long term groups of people to push to do higher tiers.

    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.

    Problem with that is there are people who actually want to play the game and have fun. I know that is a foreign concept for certain people... At least when Hsith came out, our best teams weren't being decimated. As poor of a comparison as it is, Fully developed teams were able to actually do something. With this TB, hearing about R7 teams getting destroyed, with no way to strengthen characters is demoralizing. Why play content where your teams one spent actual money on get destroyed? I don't see that as an incentive to spend, more to quit. That is the difference between now and all the other times challenging content was released. We actually could still gear/ mod or try different team compositions. There is none of that here.

    Go back to when the Sith raid was released, there was the same sentiment about fun. It is a fair comparison, because at that time there were specific teams that were needed to even finish the raid, it didnt matter if you had maxed teams if you didnt have the right ones certain phases would hold you back from completion.

    I was very careful to speak only to rewards, because as we all know, we all have different perspectives on what is fun. No one can tell others what is fun, we can only speak to our own perspective.
  • Gifafi
    2485 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I dont think this conversation is any more disturbing than the other times new content is released and the conversation revolves around breaking up long term groups of people to push to do higher tiers.

    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.

    Problem with that is there are people who actually want to play the game and have fun. I know that is a foreign concept for certain people... At least when Hsith came out, our best teams weren't being decimated. As poor of a comparison as it is, Fully developed teams were able to actually do something. With this TB, hearing about R7 teams getting destroyed, with no way to strengthen characters is demoralizing. Why play content where your teams one spent actual money on get destroyed? I don't see that as an incentive to spend, more to quit. That is the difference between now and all the other times challenging content was released. We actually could still gear/ mod or try different team compositions. There is none of that here.

    Go back to when the Sith raid was released, there was the same sentiment about fun. It is a fair comparison, because at that time there were specific teams that were needed to even finish the raid, it didnt matter if you had maxed teams if you didnt have the right ones certain phases would hold you back from completion.

    I was very careful to speak only to rewards, because as we all know, we all have different perspectives on what is fun. No one can tell others what is fun, we can only speak to our own perspective.

    7900get1 800get2 500crystals for a full clear of ls hoth. granted you would be giving up some get2 bc of geotb rewards for get2. Since we don't really know how much harder (somehow lol) p2-4 are in lsgeotb, it's hard to say how many stars a guild would get, but judging from early results I would think 7-8 would be a maybe for many 220m guilds which would be 3800/3300/250(averaged). With people hoarding for GAS I think it can make sense to do hoth at least until more is known about geotb strats/achievable star levels, especially considering all the possible rewards from SM etc in hoth when maxing.
  • Kyno
    22217 posts Moderator
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I dont think this conversation is any more disturbing than the other times new content is released and the conversation revolves around breaking up long term groups of people to push to do higher tiers.

    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.

    Problem with that is there are people who actually want to play the game and have fun. I know that is a foreign concept for certain people... At least when Hsith came out, our best teams weren't being decimated. As poor of a comparison as it is, Fully developed teams were able to actually do something. With this TB, hearing about R7 teams getting destroyed, with no way to strengthen characters is demoralizing. Why play content where your teams one spent actual money on get destroyed? I don't see that as an incentive to spend, more to quit. That is the difference between now and all the other times challenging content was released. We actually could still gear/ mod or try different team compositions. There is none of that here.

    Go back to when the Sith raid was released, there was the same sentiment about fun. It is a fair comparison, because at that time there were specific teams that were needed to even finish the raid, it didnt matter if you had maxed teams if you didnt have the right ones certain phases would hold you back from completion.

    I was very careful to speak only to rewards, because as we all know, we all have different perspectives on what is fun. No one can tell others what is fun, we can only speak to our own perspective.

    7900get1 800get2 500crystals for a full clear of ls hoth. granted you would be giving up some get2 bc of geotb rewards for get2. Since we don't really know how much harder (somehow lol) p2-4 are in lsgeotb, it's hard to say how many stars a guild would get, but judging from early results I would think 7-8 would be a maybe for many 220m guilds which would be 3800/3300/250(averaged). With people hoarding for GAS I think it can make sense to do hoth at least until more is known about geotb strats/achievable star levels, especially considering all the possible rewards from SM etc in hoth when maxing.

    The link above seems to suggest 10* for a 220M guild.

    3-4x get 2
    And better prize box possibilities

    Yes this does effect GAS timeline with the lower GET1, but still seems like the better long term thing (again, only speaking to rewards) IMO.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    It's like zone sandbagging. The calculation is on 190m guild. We used the same logic on ds geo. Lemme tell you beforehand, it's ugly to do the reverse of what -pushing for the best you can-, tactical retreat xD
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I dont think this conversation is any more disturbing than the other times new content is released and the conversation revolves around breaking up long term groups of people to push to do higher tiers.

    From a rewards perspective though, you would have to be fairly low GP for there to be any benefit to do Hoth vs LS Geo, from a rewards perspective at least.

    Problem with that is there are people who actually want to play the game and have fun. I know that is a foreign concept for certain people... At least when Hsith came out, our best teams weren't being decimated. As poor of a comparison as it is, Fully developed teams were able to actually do something. With this TB, hearing about R7 teams getting destroyed, with no way to strengthen characters is demoralizing. Why play content where your teams one spent actual money on get destroyed? I don't see that as an incentive to spend, more to quit. That is the difference between now and all the other times challenging content was released. We actually could still gear/ mod or try different team compositions. There is none of that here.

    Go back to when the Sith raid was released, there was the same sentiment about fun. It is a fair comparison, because at that time there were specific teams that were needed to even finish the raid, it didnt matter if you had maxed teams if you didnt have the right ones certain phases would hold you back from completion.

    I was very careful to speak only to rewards, because as we all know, we all have different perspectives on what is fun. No one can tell others what is fun, we can only speak to our own perspective.

    But the fact that the teams needed, if they didn't perform well, could be worked on. The fact that R7 is the highest one can go with a team, and those teams are destroyed on day 1, with them being maxed and nothing to add gear/ relic or mod wise makes it different. Rewards are ok, but the point of a game is to PLAY it. LS geo tb is unplayable, even for those players with max relics and mods. That is what makes geo TB different. People can't play it, enjoy it, or even work on teams to do so.Even the right teams don't do well in LS geo, so it kinda doesn't matter if the rewards are better for most people, if they can't get the stars to get those rewards. More or less a carrot in front of the donkey. CG should fix it.
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