Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
Also just because she is a Palpatine, doesn't necessarily make her super strong in the force - from what we know of force genetics, she would likely be more powerful than the average force user, coming from a powerful force wielding bloodline.
But Kylo/Ben is from the Skywalker bloodline, lineage of the Chosen One - the most force power potent bloodline possible - which trumps Rey's lineage.
The only thing JJ could come up with to counter the set Star Wars lore in this regard was the whole surviving Jedi/Sith inherent the power of fallen Jedi/Sith respectively - which doesn't make any sense and is just a can of worms.
Following that inheritance logic of passing power, there were always only 2 Sith - that would have made Darth Maul super OP, yet was defeated by Padawan Obi Wan. And since Maul later is not Sith - what happens to all his "power"?
Additionally, who got Vader's power when he died? Palpatine? But Vader was redeemed back to Anakin, so Rey got Anakin's power?
It's all just a muddled illogical mess.
Or you could, you know, not interpret every word as literal. Everyone goes on about some transfer of power but its entirely based on the words of two people in a fight scene of a movie. Now, knowing Palpatine, he probably had found a way to harness extra power, but people are latching on as a way to hate the movie.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
Also just because she is a Palpatine, doesn't necessarily make her super strong in the force - from what we know of force genetics, she would likely be more powerful than the average force user, coming from a powerful force wielding bloodline.
But Kylo/Ben is from the Skywalker bloodline, lineage of the Chosen One - the most force power potent bloodline possible - which trumps Rey's lineage.
The only thing JJ could come up with to counter the set Star Wars lore in this regard was the whole surviving Jedi/Sith inherent the power of fallen Jedi/Sith respectively - which doesn't make any sense and is just a can of worms.
Following that inheritance logic of passing power, there were always only 2 Sith - that would have made Darth Maul super OP, yet was defeated by Padawan Obi Wan. And since Maul later is not Sith - what happens to all his "power"?
Additionally, who got Vader's power when he died? Palpatine? But Vader was redeemed back to Anakin, so Rey got Anakin's power?
It's all just a muddled illogical mess.
Or you could, you know, not interpret every word as literal. Everyone goes on about some transfer of power but its entirely based on the words of two people in a fight scene of a movie. Now, knowing Palpatine, he probably had found a way to harness extra power, but people are latching on as a way to hate the movie.
Watch the movie again, if you really want that kind of self-torture, lol
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
Also just because she is a Palpatine, doesn't necessarily make her super strong in the force - from what we know of force genetics, she would likely be more powerful than the average force user, coming from a powerful force wielding bloodline.
But Kylo/Ben is from the Skywalker bloodline, lineage of the Chosen One - the most force power potent bloodline possible - which trumps Rey's lineage.
The only thing JJ could come up with to counter the set Star Wars lore in this regard was the whole surviving Jedi/Sith inherent the power of fallen Jedi/Sith respectively - which doesn't make any sense and is just a can of worms.
Following that inheritance logic of passing power, there were always only 2 Sith - that would have made Darth Maul super OP, yet was defeated by Padawan Obi Wan. And since Maul later is not Sith - what happens to all his "power"?
Additionally, who got Vader's power when he died? Palpatine? But Vader was redeemed back to Anakin, so Rey got Anakin's power?
It's all just a muddled illogical mess.
Or you could, you know, not interpret every word as literal. Everyone goes on about some transfer of power but its entirely based on the words of two people in a fight scene of a movie. Now, knowing Palpatine, he probably had found a way to harness extra power, but people are latching on as a way to hate the movie.
Watch the movie again, if you really want that kind of self-torture, lol
I have watched it twice. You see what you want to see because you are looking for reasons to hate the ST, and specifically this movie.
I challenge you to find the part where rey does anything that implies having all the strength of all the jedi. At the end, she reflects Palps power (which apparently has increased in his time recovering and with the force drain), and this reflection is nothing new.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Sorry but Palpatine does say he has all the Sith in him and they will transfer to her when she strikes him down. No way to miss understand that.
Everything we learn about Rey does make her the strongest Force user just because. They never go into her background of why she is so strong. Why did Jedi need to be trained early in life if you can just be the best by default at 20? Why could she beat Palpatine when Yoda couldn’t?
Forget the gear crunch, why can't we sim the Sith raid yet?
This movie looks horrible - I'll pass and catch it on Disney+, I know that will be like another 6 months or so, but that only shows my complete lack of interest.
Ok Boo
Mer
Funny thing is I am not a "boomer" far from it, lol - "OK boomer is so insipid. It’s the perfect put-down for an inarticulate generation that speaks and thinks in text."
Funny how the best "Boomers" can come up with to combat against an "insipid insult" is "ok zoomer", which is the exact same "insult" but with the new generation's name instead :eyeroll:
There are no Boomers in this forum. I don't think you know what the term means.
This movie looks horrible - I'll pass and catch it on Disney+, I know that will be like another 6 months or so, but that only shows my complete lack of interest.
Ok Boo
Mer
Funny thing is I am not a "boomer" far from it, lol - "OK boomer is so insipid. It’s the perfect put-down for an inarticulate generation that speaks and thinks in text."
Funny how the best "Boomers" can come up with to combat against an "insipid insult" is "ok zoomer", which is the exact same "insult" but with the new generation's name instead :eyeroll:
There are no Boomers in this forum.
Source please.
The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
This movie looks horrible - I'll pass and catch it on Disney+, I know that will be like another 6 months or so, but that only shows my complete lack of interest.
Ok Boo
Mer
Funny thing is I am not a "boomer" far from it, lol - "OK boomer is so insipid. It’s the perfect put-down for an inarticulate generation that speaks and thinks in text."
Funny how the best "Boomers" can come up with to combat against an "insipid insult" is "ok zoomer", which is the exact same "insult" but with the new generation's name instead :eyeroll:
There are no Boomers in this forum. I don't think you know what the term means.
Are you implying that people born between 1945 and ~1964 are incapable of using a website, or dont like star wars?
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
Also just because she is a Palpatine, doesn't necessarily make her super strong in the force - from what we know of force genetics, she would likely be more powerful than the average force user, coming from a powerful force wielding bloodline.
But Kylo/Ben is from the Skywalker bloodline, lineage of the Chosen One - the most force power potent bloodline possible - which trumps Rey's lineage.
The only thing JJ could come up with to counter the set Star Wars lore in this regard was the whole surviving Jedi/Sith inherent the power of fallen Jedi/Sith respectively - which doesn't make any sense and is just a can of worms.
Following that inheritance logic of passing power, there were always only 2 Sith - that would have made Darth Maul super OP, yet was defeated by Padawan Obi Wan. And since Maul later is not Sith - what happens to all his "power"?
Additionally, who got Vader's power when he died? Palpatine? But Vader was redeemed back to Anakin, so Rey got Anakin's power?
It's all just a muddled illogical mess.
Or you could, you know, not interpret every word as literal. Everyone goes on about some transfer of power but its entirely based on the words of two people in a fight scene of a movie. Now, knowing Palpatine, he probably had found a way to harness extra power, but people are latching on as a way to hate the movie.
Watch the movie again, if you really want that kind of self-torture, lol
I have watched it twice. You see what you want to see because you are looking for reasons to hate the ST, and specifically this movie.
I challenge you to find the part where rey does anything that implies having all the strength of all the jedi. At the end, she reflects Palps power (which apparently has increased in his time recovering and with the force drain), and this reflection is nothing new.
Well the Jedi (especially Luke) comment that all 1000 generations of Jedi are within her. She does not represent the Jedi in that part of the script (she of course does being the last one) but it is there power and essence that are within her.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Worth the read if you're interested in opposing points of view.
But she IS the very definition of a Mary Sue - can't argue that.
so, I finally googled this mary sue thing, and wow, lol. I mean, luke spent his days pew-pewing at womprats and driving around in a convertible, got 5 minutes of training on a bus ride, and used the force to (SPOILERS) blow up the d-star, but the hardscrapple teen fighting her whole life is a mary sue bc she can wield a weapon and fight off someone who doesn't want to kill her? alrighty then
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Worth the read if you're interested in opposing points of view.
But she IS the very definition of a Mary Sue - can't argue that.
so, I finally googled this mary sue thing, and wow, lol. I mean, luke spent his days pew-pewing at womprats and driving around in a convertible, got 5 minutes of training on a bus ride, and used the force to (SPOILERS) blow up the d-star, but the hardscrapple teen fighting her whole life is a mary sue bc she can wield a weapon and fight off someone who doesn't want to kill her? alrighty then
You are joking right?
* Luke was the son of the Force personified.
* Luke had natural talents such as fixing things and piloting
* Luke had pilot training in his T-16 (similar to a X-wing), transversing through Beggar's Canyon (similar to the Death Star trench), shooting Womp Rats (similar to th eDeath Star exhaust port)
* Luke had training from a Jedi Master to alolow the force to guide his actions, to do what he has already done before as discussed.
* Luke has extensive training under Yoda (which likely took weeks considering the Falcon travelled systems, without a Hyper Drive), and struggled to lift his X-wing.
* Luke also faced Vader and lost a hand.
* Luke also had extensive training between ESB and ROTJ
* Rey fought using a staff - very different from a sword.
* Rey could pilot the Falcon, with 0 piloting experience.
* Rey could complete complicated force techniques (not just guided actions) such as mind trick, force pull etc. with no training.
* Rey could best well trained force users using the force
* Rey could best well trained lightsaber duelists, with no training
* Rey could lift many large boulders with no training.
* Rey had NO training. Luke did not teach her a thing - only his philosophy for her to understand why he was a hermit.
Luke = character development and growth, struggles, failures, accomplishments
Rey = poor character development and no growth, no struggles, no failures, excels at everything.
This whole discussion reminds me of the Highlander film, which was wildly successful and spawned a franchise of sequels and television series. Yet much of the following material was awful. Highlander 2 was generally panned as complete garbage because it broke all the rules set down by the original, yet some viewers still liked it and somehow the franchise continued on.
That's kind of how I feel about what Star Wars has developed into. The preceeding stories don't matter as long as there are flashy fight scenes to oooooooh and aaaaaah over.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Worth the read if you're interested in opposing points of view.
But she IS the very definition of a Mary Sue - can't argue that.
so, I finally googled this mary sue thing, and wow, lol. I mean, luke spent his days pew-pewing at womprats and driving around in a convertible, got 5 minutes of training on a bus ride, and used the force to (SPOILERS) blow up the d-star, but the hardscrapple teen fighting her whole life is a mary sue bc she can wield a weapon and fight off someone who doesn't want to kill her? alrighty then
You are joking right?
* Luke was the son of the Force personified.
* Luke had natural talents such as fixing things and piloting
* Luke had pilot training in his T-16 (similar to a X-wing), transversing through Beggar's Canyon (similar to the Death Star trench), shooting Womp Rats (similar to th eDeath Star exhaust port)
* Luke had training from a Jedi Master to alolow the force to guide his actions, to do what he has already done before as discussed.
* Luke has extensive training under Yoda (which likely took weeks considering the Falcon travelled systems, without a Hyper Drive), and struggled to lift his X-wing.
* Luke also faced Vader and lost a hand.
* Luke also had extensive training between ESB and ROTJ
* Rey fought using a staff - very different from a sword.
* Rey could pilot the Falcon, with 0 piloting experience.
* Rey could complete complicated force techniques (not just guided actions) such as mind trick, force pull etc. with no training.
* Rey could best well trained force users using the force
* Rey could best well trained lightsaber duelists, with no training
* Rey could lift many large boulders with no training.
* Rey had NO training. Luke did not teach her a thing - only his philosophy for her to understand why he was a hermit.
Luke = character development and growth, struggles, failures, accomplishments
Rey = poor character development and no growth, no struggles, no failures, excels at everything.
Rey = Mary Sue.
rey was the gdaufghter of most powerful sith ever
rey had natural talents such as fixing thing, scavenging and surviving
luke had 5min of training from old b
luke had some training from yoda, and lost to the dopest baddy around, also bc vader didn't want to kill him, same as rey v kylo. Also, losing to vader somehow proves one of your points?
rey had extensive training between tlj and tros
lol a staff is soooo different than a sword, great point
rey had innate abilities and a force bond with kylo
again, kylo didn't want to kill rey
luke didn't train rey when he was training rey, and apparently neither did leia? whelp
rey had no growth, no struggles, excels at everything? lol did you watch the movies??
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Only thing Rey struggled with was who her family was. She wanted to belong. That is the reason she latched on to Han and Leia. It is the same reason she felt the connection to Kylo Ren. She wanted a family.
She is a true Mary Sue by definition.
So she had major flaws and exploitable needs, yet was a Mary Sue, by definition? Ohhhh K.
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Worth the read if you're interested in opposing points of view.
But she IS the very definition of a Mary Sue - can't argue that.
so, I finally googled this mary sue thing, and wow, lol. I mean, luke spent his days pew-pewing at womprats and driving around in a convertible, got 5 minutes of training on a bus ride, and used the force to (SPOILERS) blow up the d-star, but the hardscrapple teen fighting her whole life is a mary sue bc she can wield a weapon and fight off someone who doesn't want to kill her? alrighty then
You are joking right?
* Luke was the son of the Force personified.
* Luke had natural talents such as fixing things and piloting
* Luke had pilot training in his T-16 (similar to a X-wing), transversing through Beggar's Canyon (similar to the Death Star trench), shooting Womp Rats (similar to th eDeath Star exhaust port)
* Luke had training from a Jedi Master to alolow the force to guide his actions, to do what he has already done before as discussed.
* Luke has extensive training under Yoda (which likely took weeks considering the Falcon travelled systems, without a Hyper Drive), and struggled to lift his X-wing.
* Luke also faced Vader and lost a hand.
* Luke also had extensive training between ESB and ROTJ
* Rey fought using a staff - very different from a sword.
* Rey could pilot the Falcon, with 0 piloting experience.
* Rey could complete complicated force techniques (not just guided actions) such as mind trick, force pull etc. with no training.
* Rey could best well trained force users using the force
* Rey could best well trained lightsaber duelists, with no training
* Rey could lift many large boulders with no training.
* Rey had NO training. Luke did not teach her a thing - only his philosophy for her to understand why he was a hermit.
Luke = character development and growth, struggles, failures, accomplishments
Rey = poor character development and no growth, no struggles, no failures, excels at everything.
Rey = Mary Sue.
rey was the gdaufghter of most powerful sith ever
rey had natural talents such as fixing thing, scavenging and surviving
luke had 5min of training from old b
luke had some training from yoda, and lost to the dopest baddy around, also bc vader didn't want to kill him, same as rey v kylo. Also, losing to vader somehow proves one of your points?
rey had extensive training between tlj and tros
lol a staff is soooo different than a sword, great point
rey had innate abilities and a force bond with kylo
again, kylo didn't want to kill rey
luke didn't train rey when he was training rey, and apparently neither did leia? whelp
rey had no growth, no struggles, excels at everything? lol did you watch the movies??
rey was the gdaufghter of most powerful sith ever
- that is arguable that Palps was the "most powerful sith ever", even so, his genetic lineage is not as superior than the Skywalker lineage. Even Anakin required years and years of training (10 years between E1 and 2 for a start). Rey could use complicated techniques, because the plot demanded it.
rey had natural talents such as fixing thing, scavenging and surviving
- that is why I did not bother mentioning those natural talents. I agree, those are fine.
luke had 5min of training from old b
- Old Ben trained Luke in basic lightsaber defence as well as allowing the force to guide him, which Luke had naturally done in the first place, he just needed to the force to obey his command in doing so. Secondly We do not know how long it could take to travel from one system to another - could have been hours. Again, Luke is of the Skywalker lineage, as I have described multiple times already.
luke had some training from yoda, and lost to the dopest baddy around, also bc vader didn't want to kill him, same as rey v kylo. again, kylo didn't want to kill rey. Also, losing to vader somehow proves one of your points?
- Luke likely had several weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah. He lost to Vader - who literally was the most powerful being in the force. Vader did "hold back" as you correctly mentioned, but didn't stop Luke from losing a hand in the process.
- Rey, never lost to Kylo. Yes Kylo was a little injured and also held back, but due to his lineage and training, he could have subdued Rey and took her as his apprentice. He failed, physically in lightsaber combat, as well as in the force (losing his mind battle and having it redirected back at him and his "tug of war" with the lightsaber).
So yes, this proves a huge point. Even Luke was bested by Tuskens and scum in a cantina - Rey is just OP in all categories, lol.
rey had extensive training between tlj and tros
- I don't dispute that. She merely just carried on being the OP Mary Sue already established from TFA and TLJ.
lol a staff is soooo different than a sword, great point - indeed. Having personally trained extensively in weapons (including staff and sword) they are very, very different tools.
rey had innate abilities and a force bond with kylo
Sure - and that trumps the Skywalker lineage of character development, where the most powerful blood line created by the force itself, requires those characters extensive training, where Rey requires nothing? Again, Rey's abilities are driven by plot necessity alone, which is a common trait for a Mary Sue.
luke didn't train rey when he was training rey, and apparently neither did leia? whelp
- Great point. She did not get formally trained by Luke. We don't know what happened off-screen between Leia and Rey, as Rey refers to Leia as "Master". Rey also had the Jedi books to refer to. I do not dispute her growth between TLJ and TROS, again, she merely continued on her established Mary Sue path.
rey had no growth, no struggles, excels at everything? lol did you watch the movies??
I did watch the movies. She had some information to overcome in TROS, such as her lineage etc. but her character was already developed as a Mary Sue from TFA and TLJ - she had nothing to overcome and was instantly good at everything she did, with 0 training, instantly liked by all, including the main villain, lol. Again, traits of a Mary Sue.
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH? He is good at flying a ship and shooting small things because the plot requires him to be the hero and blow up the Death Star.
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH? He is good at flying a ship and shooting small things because the plot requires him to be the hero and blow up the Death Star.
If you read this thread you would have had your answer.
* Luke had pilot training in his T-16 (similar to a X-wing), transversing through Beggar's Canyon (similar to the Death Star trench), shooting Womp Rats (similar to the Death Star exhaust port).
* Luke had training from a Jedi Master to alllow the force to guide his actions, to do what he has already done before as discussed above, in addition he had some basic lightsaber defence training.
* Luke's struggles in ANH alone were: Failure to look after a droid (he was tricked by a droid to remove a restraining bolt allowing the droid to escape), he was beaten by Tuskens, he was beaten by cantina scum and needing saving on both occasions. He also had to struggle and deal with the death of his aunt and uncle as well as his newfound mentor and friend and the death of another close friend, Biggs.
On the flip side, Rey in TFA:
* Has a droid respect her and be faithful to her.
* Pilot's the Falcon like an expert, with no prior piloting skills established.
* Defeats scum who jump her and BB8 at the scavenger camp, reinforcing statements that she does not need protecting or saving.
* Carrying on life as her own boss scavenging and looking after herself without any responsibility
* Defeats an established force user in the force as well as lightsaber combat, requiring no training to do so
* completes complicated/difficult force techniques on the fly.
Her only slight struggle is that of dealing with Han's death (a person she hardly knew, and turned down working with him to go back to Jakku and wait for her family). Han's death was more of a struggle for Chewie and Leia than anyone else.
I would like to add that Luke's struggle over Obi Wan's death is different. Yes he hardly knew Ben, just as Rey hardly knew Han - but Rey had decided not to go with Han as he had offered her (2nd mate on the Falcon). She was happy if all else failed to return to Jakku and carry on life as she had done in the past.
Luke on the other hand knew the Obi Wan was his father's master, which made him a close friend to the family. Luke had also lost his family on Tatooine, the life he had known was gone. He put his entire future into following Obi Wan to learn the ways of the force and all of that was taken away from him when he lost Obi Wan. he had his life turned upside twice in one movie!
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH?
Power Converters
Fairness
Getting off his home rock
Keeping track of all his droids
Fainting
Getting a good deal for a speeder
Height
Bridge controls
Not caring
Saving Private Porkins
The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH?
Power Converters
Fairness
Getting off his home rock
Keeping track of all his droids
Fainting
Getting a good deal for a speeder
Height
Bridge controls
Not caring
Saving Private Porkins
He actually got a bad deal for selling his speeder, but otherwise an excellent summary, lol
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH?
Power Converters
Fairness
Getting off his home rock
Keeping track of all his droids
Fainting
Getting a good deal for a speeder
Height
Bridge controls
Not caring
Saving Private Porkins
He actually got a bad deal for selling his speeder, but otherwise an excellent summary, lol
Doesn't that mean that he is bad at getting a good deal for his speeder?
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH?
Power Converters
Fairness
Getting off his home rock
Keeping track of all his droids
Fainting
Getting a good deal for a speeder
Height
Bridge controls
Not caring
Saving Private Porkins
He actually got a bad deal for selling his speeder, but otherwise an excellent summary, lol
Doesn't that mean that he is bad at getting a good deal for his speeder?
Yes.
The CGDF requests that CG takes away everyone's Extra Life Charity Event rewards. We don't deserve them. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
Can someone refresh my memory, what is luke bad at or struggle with in ANH?
Luke is:
bad at picking astromech droids with good motivators
bad at whining about power converters
bad at leaving restraining bolts on rogue droids
bad at fighting sand people
bad at keeping his aunt and uncle alive
bad at staying out of fights in Mos Eisley bars
bad at selling land speeders for a good price
bad at fighting training droids without a blast shield
bad at planning Alderaanian princess rescues
bad at escaping from dianogas in trash compactors
bad at sneaking around Imperial Death Stars without getting spotted
bad at keeping Obi-Wan Kenobi alive
bad at wooing rescued Alderaanian princesses
bad at shaking TIE fighters off his six
bad at saving his best friend Biggs from Darth Vader (a tough match for sure)
Luke needed help doing everything. He would have died at least four times in ANH without help. He was very much a misplaced, untrained farmboy stumbling around making mistakes everywhere. He had a largely undeveloped affinity for using the Force that he was just beginning to discover.
He is good at flying a ship and shooting small things because the plot requires him to be the hero and blow up the Death Star.
TRUE! And why not? How fortunate for everyone involved that he had already unknowingly been cultivating his Force-enhanced targeting abilities by bullseye-ing womprats, a totally believable pastime for a farmboy. That he was able to use this ability to save the Rebel base was not terribly far-fetched.
Luke is also:
good at whining about power converters
good at cleaning droids
good at becoming infatuated with beautiful Alderaanian princess holograms
good at staring into the sunset dreaming about rescuing beautiful Alderaanian princesses
good at finding rogue droids in deserts
good at fighting training droids with the blast shield down
good at having bad feelings about small moon-sized space stations
good at hiding in storage compartments
good at bribing scoundrels to help with badly planned Alderaanian princess rescue missions
good at shooting security cameras
good at swinging over Death Star chasms with beautiful Alderaanian princesses
good at channeling the Dark Side to shoot Stormtroopers and blast door control panels
good at learning how to use a quad laser turret to shoot a suicidal TIE pilot trying to let him get away
good at flying an X-wing fighter much like his T-16 back home
good at channeling the Force to bullseye a thermal exhaust port about the size of a Tattoine womprat
Replies
Although she had some struggles in her place of being (who she was and where she came from), yes she was a Mary Sue, as she unexplainably did everything the story needed her to do, completely over powered in face of logic, character development or creative story writing, purely because she was made to be exactly what the plot needed her to be and when... Mary Sue.
She was also instantly liked by everyone, even the main antagonist of the ST. She also did not grow - she had everything handed to her from day 1. No compelling story arc or any real problems to overcome and grow from.
Or you could, you know, not interpret every word as literal. Everyone goes on about some transfer of power but its entirely based on the words of two people in a fight scene of a movie. Now, knowing Palpatine, he probably had found a way to harness extra power, but people are latching on as a way to hate the movie.
Watch the movie again, if you really want that kind of self-torture, lol
I have watched it twice. You see what you want to see because you are looking for reasons to hate the ST, and specifically this movie.
I challenge you to find the part where rey does anything that implies having all the strength of all the jedi. At the end, she reflects Palps power (which apparently has increased in his time recovering and with the force drain), and this reflection is nothing new.
Thought this was a good article:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2017/12/21/no-rey-from-star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-still-not-a-mary-sue/#49c68a754500
Worth the read if you're interested in opposing points of view.
Everything we learn about Rey does make her the strongest Force user just because. They never go into her background of why she is so strong. Why did Jedi need to be trained early in life if you can just be the best by default at 20? Why could she beat Palpatine when Yoda couldn’t?
There are no Boomers in this forum. I don't think you know what the term means.
Source please.
Are you implying that people born between 1945 and ~1964 are incapable of using a website, or dont like star wars?
What I like more than all 3 of them was Rogue One, much better
Well the Jedi (especially Luke) comment that all 1000 generations of Jedi are within her. She does not represent the Jedi in that part of the script (she of course does being the last one) but it is there power and essence that are within her.
But she IS the very definition of a Mary Sue - can't argue that.
If you read the article, the author actually IS arguing that. So, I guess you can argue it. There are, however, certain things you can't argue with.
I am sure people argue that the Earth is flat as well - same thing, facts are facts and it is what it is. The Earth IS round and Rey IS a Mary Sue.
so, I finally googled this mary sue thing, and wow, lol. I mean, luke spent his days pew-pewing at womprats and driving around in a convertible, got 5 minutes of training on a bus ride, and used the force to (SPOILERS) blow up the d-star, but the hardscrapple teen fighting her whole life is a mary sue bc she can wield a weapon and fight off someone who doesn't want to kill her? alrighty then
You are joking right?
* Luke was the son of the Force personified.
* Luke had natural talents such as fixing things and piloting
* Luke had pilot training in his T-16 (similar to a X-wing), transversing through Beggar's Canyon (similar to the Death Star trench), shooting Womp Rats (similar to th eDeath Star exhaust port)
* Luke had training from a Jedi Master to alolow the force to guide his actions, to do what he has already done before as discussed.
* Luke has extensive training under Yoda (which likely took weeks considering the Falcon travelled systems, without a Hyper Drive), and struggled to lift his X-wing.
* Luke also faced Vader and lost a hand.
* Luke also had extensive training between ESB and ROTJ
* Rey fought using a staff - very different from a sword.
* Rey could pilot the Falcon, with 0 piloting experience.
* Rey could complete complicated force techniques (not just guided actions) such as mind trick, force pull etc. with no training.
* Rey could best well trained force users using the force
* Rey could best well trained lightsaber duelists, with no training
* Rey could lift many large boulders with no training.
* Rey had NO training. Luke did not teach her a thing - only his philosophy for her to understand why he was a hermit.
Luke = character development and growth, struggles, failures, accomplishments
Rey = poor character development and no growth, no struggles, no failures, excels at everything.
Rey = Mary Sue.
That's kind of how I feel about what Star Wars has developed into. The preceeding stories don't matter as long as there are flashy fight scenes to oooooooh and aaaaaah over.
rey was the gdaufghter of most powerful sith ever
rey had natural talents such as fixing thing, scavenging and surviving
luke had 5min of training from old b
luke had some training from yoda, and lost to the dopest baddy around, also bc vader didn't want to kill him, same as rey v kylo. Also, losing to vader somehow proves one of your points?
rey had extensive training between tlj and tros
lol a staff is soooo different than a sword, great point
rey had innate abilities and a force bond with kylo
again, kylo didn't want to kill rey
luke didn't train rey when he was training rey, and apparently neither did leia? whelp
rey had no growth, no struggles, excels at everything? lol did you watch the movies??
Thank you for making my last point so eloquently.
rey was the gdaufghter of most powerful sith ever
- that is arguable that Palps was the "most powerful sith ever", even so, his genetic lineage is not as superior than the Skywalker lineage. Even Anakin required years and years of training (10 years between E1 and 2 for a start). Rey could use complicated techniques, because the plot demanded it.
rey had natural talents such as fixing thing, scavenging and surviving
- that is why I did not bother mentioning those natural talents. I agree, those are fine.
luke had 5min of training from old b
- Old Ben trained Luke in basic lightsaber defence as well as allowing the force to guide him, which Luke had naturally done in the first place, he just needed to the force to obey his command in doing so. Secondly We do not know how long it could take to travel from one system to another - could have been hours. Again, Luke is of the Skywalker lineage, as I have described multiple times already.
luke had some training from yoda, and lost to the dopest baddy around, also bc vader didn't want to kill him, same as rey v kylo. again, kylo didn't want to kill rey. Also, losing to vader somehow proves one of your points?
- Luke likely had several weeks of training with Yoda on Dagobah. He lost to Vader - who literally was the most powerful being in the force. Vader did "hold back" as you correctly mentioned, but didn't stop Luke from losing a hand in the process.
- Rey, never lost to Kylo. Yes Kylo was a little injured and also held back, but due to his lineage and training, he could have subdued Rey and took her as his apprentice. He failed, physically in lightsaber combat, as well as in the force (losing his mind battle and having it redirected back at him and his "tug of war" with the lightsaber).
So yes, this proves a huge point. Even Luke was bested by Tuskens and scum in a cantina - Rey is just OP in all categories, lol.
rey had extensive training between tlj and tros
- I don't dispute that. She merely just carried on being the OP Mary Sue already established from TFA and TLJ.
lol a staff is soooo different than a sword, great point
- indeed. Having personally trained extensively in weapons (including staff and sword) they are very, very different tools.
rey had innate abilities and a force bond with kylo
Sure - and that trumps the Skywalker lineage of character development, where the most powerful blood line created by the force itself, requires those characters extensive training, where Rey requires nothing? Again, Rey's abilities are driven by plot necessity alone, which is a common trait for a Mary Sue.
luke didn't train rey when he was training rey, and apparently neither did leia? whelp
- Great point. She did not get formally trained by Luke. We don't know what happened off-screen between Leia and Rey, as Rey refers to Leia as "Master". Rey also had the Jedi books to refer to. I do not dispute her growth between TLJ and TROS, again, she merely continued on her established Mary Sue path.
rey had no growth, no struggles, excels at everything? lol did you watch the movies??
I did watch the movies. She had some information to overcome in TROS, such as her lineage etc. but her character was already developed as a Mary Sue from TFA and TLJ - she had nothing to overcome and was instantly good at everything she did, with 0 training, instantly liked by all, including the main villain, lol. Again, traits of a Mary Sue.
If you read this thread you would have had your answer.
* Luke had pilot training in his T-16 (similar to a X-wing), transversing through Beggar's Canyon (similar to the Death Star trench), shooting Womp Rats (similar to the Death Star exhaust port).
* Luke had training from a Jedi Master to alllow the force to guide his actions, to do what he has already done before as discussed above, in addition he had some basic lightsaber defence training.
* Luke's struggles in ANH alone were: Failure to look after a droid (he was tricked by a droid to remove a restraining bolt allowing the droid to escape), he was beaten by Tuskens, he was beaten by cantina scum and needing saving on both occasions. He also had to struggle and deal with the death of his aunt and uncle as well as his newfound mentor and friend and the death of another close friend, Biggs.
On the flip side, Rey in TFA:
* Has a droid respect her and be faithful to her.
* Pilot's the Falcon like an expert, with no prior piloting skills established.
* Defeats scum who jump her and BB8 at the scavenger camp, reinforcing statements that she does not need protecting or saving.
* Carrying on life as her own boss scavenging and looking after herself without any responsibility
* Defeats an established force user in the force as well as lightsaber combat, requiring no training to do so
* completes complicated/difficult force techniques on the fly.
Her only slight struggle is that of dealing with Han's death (a person she hardly knew, and turned down working with him to go back to Jakku and wait for her family). Han's death was more of a struggle for Chewie and Leia than anyone else.
I would like to add that Luke's struggle over Obi Wan's death is different. Yes he hardly knew Ben, just as Rey hardly knew Han - but Rey had decided not to go with Han as he had offered her (2nd mate on the Falcon). She was happy if all else failed to return to Jakku and carry on life as she had done in the past.
Luke on the other hand knew the Obi Wan was his father's master, which made him a close friend to the family. Luke had also lost his family on Tatooine, the life he had known was gone. He put his entire future into following Obi Wan to learn the ways of the force and all of that was taken away from him when he lost Obi Wan. he had his life turned upside twice in one movie!
Power Converters
Fairness
Getting off his home rock
Keeping track of all his droids
Fainting
Getting a good deal for a speeder
Height
Bridge controls
Not caring
Saving Private Porkins
He actually got a bad deal for selling his speeder, but otherwise an excellent summary, lol
He also got a little cooked, but was okay.
Cleaning parts
Negotiating prices for parts
Holding hands
Running fast enough to reach quad jumpers
Flying
Pointing at things
Hiding from Han and Chewie's ship
Hiding from Han and Chewie
Hiding from death gangs
Convincing Finn to not run away
Bringing a lightsaber to a lightsaber fight
Not getting stunned (i.e. bad at moving)
Not fainting
Not being captured
Not being seen by Han when climbing walls
Saving Private Han
Yes.
Luke is:
- bad at picking astromech droids with good motivators
- bad at whining about power converters
- bad at leaving restraining bolts on rogue droids
- bad at fighting sand people
- bad at keeping his aunt and uncle alive
- bad at staying out of fights in Mos Eisley bars
- bad at selling land speeders for a good price
- bad at fighting training droids without a blast shield
- bad at planning Alderaanian princess rescues
- bad at escaping from dianogas in trash compactors
- bad at sneaking around Imperial Death Stars without getting spotted
- bad at keeping Obi-Wan Kenobi alive
- bad at wooing rescued Alderaanian princesses
- bad at shaking TIE fighters off his six
- bad at saving his best friend Biggs from Darth Vader (a tough match for sure)
Luke needed help doing everything. He would have died at least four times in ANH without help. He was very much a misplaced, untrained farmboy stumbling around making mistakes everywhere. He had a largely undeveloped affinity for using the Force that he was just beginning to discover.TRUE! And why not? How fortunate for everyone involved that he had already unknowingly been cultivating his Force-enhanced targeting abilities by bullseye-ing womprats, a totally believable pastime for a farmboy. That he was able to use this ability to save the Rebel base was not terribly far-fetched.
Luke is also: