Favourite Sequel Trilogy Movie

2Next

Replies

  • Rise of Skywalker
    The first time I saw it, I had some issues. Took two days to work though them, and then saw it again. Now I love it, and it's one of my top four movies out of them all.

    It's been mentioned above, but every trilogy is able to captivate a certain group of kids. I saw the OT first as a child and loved it. But I was truly captivated when I saw Ep I as a 9-year old, awed by Duel of the Fates like I never had been before by anything. Similar experience with a lot of my friends.

    The ST is no exception. There is a group of fans that will forever hold the ST as "their" Star Wars simply because that's what they have grown up with. Nothing wrong with that, and more power to them. Some kid whose intro to the galaxy far, far away was TFA is someday going to make another great Star Wars movie or show or book or something, all because he or she fell in love with Rey, Poe, Finn, BB8, Kylo, etc. Sounds good to me, as long as there is more Star Wars to come.
  • Rise of Skywalker
    The first time I saw it, I had some issues. Took two days to work though them, and then saw it again. Now I love it, and it's one of my top four movies out of them all.

    It's been mentioned above, but every trilogy is able to captivate a certain group of kids. I saw the OT first as a child and loved it. But I was truly captivated when I saw Ep I as a 9-year old, awed by Duel of the Fates like I never had been before by anything. Similar experience with a lot of my friends.

    The ST is no exception. There is a group of fans that will forever hold the ST as "their" Star Wars simply because that's what they have grown up with. Nothing wrong with that, and more power to them. Some kid whose intro to the galaxy far, far away was TFA is someday going to make another great Star Wars movie or show or book or something, all because he or she fell in love with Rey, Poe, Finn, BB8, Kylo, etc. Sounds good to me, as long as there is more Star Wars to come.

    You are a genius, well said friend.
  • Snake2
    1392 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    The Last Jedi
    After watching ros, i came away pretty disappointed with the entire sequel trilogy. Nothing new was really accomplished at all.

    Turns out the first order was still the empire being run by palp, the main character needs to learn to be a jedi while redeeming the #2 sith. Sound familiar?

    There was a lot i didn't like about tlj. Rose and holdo, and canto bight to name a few, but i liked the direction they went with Luke. It was interesting, and i thought hamill gave a good performance. The Luke parts were the highlight of the trilogy and tlj was the Luke movie so i give it to tlj.
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Baby_Yoda wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    You do know that The Force Awakens made $2.07 billion and is the 4th highest grossing film of all time right?

    The Last Jedi made $1.33 Billion and is the 13th highest grossing film of all time.

    Also, ROS made $373 million in its box-office weekend.

    All old heads love the OT even though it has a bunch of plot holes too.

    Let the newer generation enjoy their version of star wars and stop hating.

    The movies arent even bad.

    First off - name the so called "plot holes" you accuse the OT of having....

    Secondly a high box office $ doesn't equal a good movie. Otherwise Transformers was one of the best movies ever made, lol.

    Secondly TROS was expected to hit $200M on its domestic opening weekend, in reality it was lower at $175.5M, $90M of which was from its early bird showings on the Thursday before its Friday official release.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/01/02/box-office-as-disney-and-lucasfilm-rise-of-skywalker-tops-800m-worldwide-why-force-awakens-not-last-jedi-ruined-star-wars/#4b73286566bf
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    (George Lucas)
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    Ok and what's your point about Yoda in the PT?
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    Ok and what's your point about Yoda in the PT?

    Character changed.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    Ok and what's your point about Yoda in the PT?

    Character changed.

    How did Yoda change? He was younger and more agile you mean? lol
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    Ok and what's your point about Yoda in the PT?

    Character changed.

    How did Yoda change? He was younger and more agile you mean? lol

    Face palm.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    Ok and what's your point about Yoda in the PT?

    Character changed.

    How did Yoda change? He was younger and more agile you mean? lol

    Face palm.

    A "face palm" lacks explanation. I don't think Yoda changed at all.
  • TVF
    22334 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.

    This is my last response. Part of Han's character was that he would shoot first. George changed his character by removing his decision to shoot first.

    Enjoy the rest of your SW life.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.

    This is my last response. Part of Han's character was that he would shoot first. George changed his character by removing his decision to shoot first.

    Enjoy the rest of your SW life.

    No, George made it more suitable for kids having the "bad guy" take hostile action first.

    Han was already unholstering his blaster to shoot Greedo, before Greedo took a shot and was likely going to shoot him anyway.

    You also have not said anything on your interpretation of Yoda changing character.

    I am off for the weekend to, so have a good one!
  • Rise of Skywalker
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.

    This is my last response. Part of Han's character was that he would shoot first. George changed his character by removing his decision to shoot first.

    Enjoy the rest of your SW life.

    No, George made it more suitable for kids having the "bad guy" take hostile action first.

    Han was already unholstering his blaster to shoot Greedo, before Greedo took a shot and was likely going to shoot him anyway.

    You also have not said anything on your interpretation of Yoda changing character.

    I am off for the weekend to, so have a good one!

    This is exactly the problem. It is a major character change, and not only does it undermine his original character but also the entire charcter growth in the Solo movie.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.

    This is my last response. Part of Han's character was that he would shoot first. George changed his character by removing his decision to shoot first.

    Enjoy the rest of your SW life.

    No, George made it more suitable for kids having the "bad guy" take hostile action first.

    Han was already unholstering his blaster to shoot Greedo, before Greedo took a shot and was likely going to shoot him anyway.

    You also have not said anything on your interpretation of Yoda changing character.

    I am off for the weekend to, so have a good one!

    This is exactly the problem. It is a major character change, and not only does it undermine his original character but also the entire charcter growth in the Solo movie.

    No, because Han in the SE was going to and prepared to shoot first. It doesn't mean I agree with he change made in the SE. I have actually done my own edit of ANH and restored the original scene.

    Han also shot Becket first out of the blue at the end of Solo.
  • Rise of Skywalker
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.

    This is my last response. Part of Han's character was that he would shoot first. George changed his character by removing his decision to shoot first.

    Enjoy the rest of your SW life.

    No, George made it more suitable for kids having the "bad guy" take hostile action first.

    Han was already unholstering his blaster to shoot Greedo, before Greedo took a shot and was likely going to shoot him anyway.

    You also have not said anything on your interpretation of Yoda changing character.

    I am off for the weekend to, so have a good one!

    This is exactly the problem. It is a major character change, and not only does it undermine his original character but also the entire charcter growth in the Solo movie.

    No, because Han in the SE was going to and prepared to shoot first. It doesn't mean I agree with he change made in the SE. I have actually done my own edit of ANH and restored the original scene.

    Han also shot Becket first out of the blue at the end of Solo.

    Maybe the entire forums will come by to correct me, but I have always thought that the character of Han solo was centered around being the one who shoots first. It is a the core of his mysterious smuggler character, and no amount of " well he was ready to shoot but was too slow" can change the fact that having him shoot second completely negates his entire story arc in the SW universe.

    But, if you truly believe that he shot first "out of the blue" in Solo, then I question your ability to argue about character developments and whether or not an edit fundamentally changes a character. The Solo movie built up and developed Han into the character that always shoots first.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Boo wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    Tank the saga? Lol, absolutely not. The general audience now gets to enjoy Star Wars. Also, you missed all of the things that the movies tried to tell you.

    It’s okay to fail.

    We must deal with our problems.

    Value can be found in everything.

    Anyone can be a hero.

    Friendship wins, not hatred.

    I mean all of these things are represented in these movies, and you are just ignoring it. But most of all, the lore isn’t what gives us these things, and that’s why it’s okay to make lore secondary.

    Wrong, you can have all of these points while adhering to the lore, if the ST had better writers.

    You cant throw away established lore of a franchise, because you take away what makes that franchise and its worlds and characters, not to mention prior stories/movies.

    Why is it ok to take over a franchise that has been established for over 40 years, change it and then make out like the fans are the ones with the problem?

    PT Yoda...

    SE Han...

    What does this even mean?

    Character changed.

    And SE Han also means "character changed"? How so?

    Try formulating a sentence, we might get somewhere, lol.

    Greedo first.

    I'd somewhat agree with this, but he was already getting his blaster to shoot Greedo anyway, they just made (stupidly) Greedo shoot first. I don't think the necessarily means a character change. It was a dumb change to that scene, I grant you that.

    This is my last response. Part of Han's character was that he would shoot first. George changed his character by removing his decision to shoot first.

    Enjoy the rest of your SW life.

    No, George made it more suitable for kids having the "bad guy" take hostile action first.

    Han was already unholstering his blaster to shoot Greedo, before Greedo took a shot and was likely going to shoot him anyway.

    You also have not said anything on your interpretation of Yoda changing character.

    I am off for the weekend to, so have a good one!

    This is exactly the problem. It is a major character change, and not only does it undermine his original character but also the entire charcter growth in the Solo movie.

    No, because Han in the SE was going to and prepared to shoot first. It doesn't mean I agree with he change made in the SE. I have actually done my own edit of ANH and restored the original scene.

    Han also shot Becket first out of the blue at the end of Solo.

    Maybe the entire forums will come by to correct me, but I have always thought that the character of Han solo was centered around being the one who shoots first. It is a the core of his mysterious smuggler character, and no amount of " well he was ready to shoot but was too slow" can change the fact that having him shoot second completely negates his entire story arc in the SW universe.

    But, if you truly believe that he shot first "out of the blue" in Solo, then I question your ability to argue about character developments and whether or not an edit fundamentally changes a character. The Solo movie built up and developed Han into the character that always shoots first.

    Totally agree with that. It has seriously become a joke among the fandom and at Lucasfilm - they whole "who shot first" thing. That the scene in Solo reinforces the whole "Han shoots first" idea.

    It all depends on what version of ANH you have and believe in - to me (and as I said I re-edited the movie for that scene), Han shoots first.

    But as you have said, he certainly shot first in Solo.

    Before Greedo was even hinting at shooting Han, Han was already going to shoot Greedo - perhaps now with him shooting first as seen in Solo, Greedo might have been aware that Han was going to shoot him too, and decided to shoot first?

    At the end of the day, it doesn't "destroy" Han's character.
  • AnnaGrace
    14 posts Member
    edited May 14
    Rise of Skywalker
    I love all of them but I’d have to say TROS. I love all of it except for
    Ben’s death (how DARE they!!!) and “Rey Skywalker”
    . I love that TROS has Reylo though :)
  • Rise of Skywalker
    khelzac wrote: »
    Prequels are what got me into Star Wars. Not the OT. I wouldn't have managed to watch beyond the first 15 mins if I started with episode 4.
    Don't get me wrong, I like the OT. But if I had to pick my fav, I'd say prequels (even though they're pretty bad).

    So yea, I see the sequels as what is going to get the current generation into SW. Not everyone needs to like it, just as the other two trilogies.

    As a member of the GenZ, I completely agree. I’d seen the OT and loved it and was thrilled when TFA was announced. I love all the movies, but the sequels are my fave because I experienced them as they were coming out, saw them in theaters, etc.

  • Boo
    4004 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Baby_Yoda wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    TFA = it was essentially a remake of ANH, but it did set up the new characters and gave the new trilogy some excitement as to where it was going to go.

    TLJ = exhisted to "subvert" expectations and not in a good way. Ignored all set-ups created with TFA and illogically killed off and/or disrespected characters, broke established lore of the franchise, created pointless side missions and taking away from well needed time to flesh out character relationships, main plot etc. TLJ left the trilogy with pretty nowhere to go.

    TROS = Tried to retcon some issues with TLJ as well as explain everything from TFA, while trying to win back fans through nostalgia. This movie was left with too much to do in too little of a time - we all saw how that went down with the likes of Spider-Man 3. Too messy and it didn't flow nicely at all.
    Lore was further broken in regard to power of deceased sith or jedi passing on to the surviving sith or jedi respectively - totally takes away from established lore re: genetics, midichlorians etc and the creation of the Chosen One.
    Additionally bringing back Palpatine and affirming Rey as the actual chosen one (not Anakin) undid everything from Episodes 1-6, they are now pointless.

    Therefore TROS has done more to hurt the franchise than TLJ did. Overall this entire trilogy is an incoherent mess that is completely pointless and undoes everything that people enjoyed and took to heart about star wars - for the sake of what?

    Disagree

    Fair enough. But I believe I am 100% correct. SO I guess we agree to disagree then, lol

    Care to state why you disagree?

    I disagree because you think that what you believe is gospel. You like to pick out whatever you can to protect your love of the originals. I get that. But you need to let go.

    However, you are obviously allowed to have whatever opinion you want, and I can see where the sequels falter. But I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not about the lore and the accuracy; it’s about future believers. I believe that this whole trilogy was trying to make the fans mad. Because it’s not supposed to be about them. That’s just my take.

    SO you disagree because... then don't deliver actual points on where you disagree?

    Lore and accuracy don't matter? Ok, lets make the next star wars movie bring back snoke as the leader, because he was the one really behind palpatine. And anyone can have the force if they chose to, so lets say Wicket the Ewok decides for no reason or training to build a lightsaber and a space ship to get off Endor to begin his battle against Snoke - because its all a bit of fun righ who cares?

    Or I know Batman, NO Batwoman! beats up superman without the use of Kryptonite, because she just can and that's that. Just accept it because its all a bit of fun.

    No - lore exists for a reason and accuracy of the lore allows you to understand the rules of whatever franchise and world you chose to watch and allows you to become immersed in those worlds, that's what makes it all fun - not making everything up as you go along and screw everything and everyone else, because hey - its just a bit of fun.

    No.

    Obviously you missed my point. My mother likes the sequels. She doesn’t know squat about Star Wars. She dislikes the prequels.

    My sister likes the sequels. She doesn’t care one bit for hyperspace travel, or the existence of a galactic senate, or the intricate types of beings in the Star Wars universe. She thinks the prequels are hilarious.

    My point is that lore makes a universe fun for nerds - and no one else. The general audience doesn’t care about lore, and thus they don’t care about the prequels, which is 100% lore.

    The originals had lore, BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT (yes I’m bringing out all caps). The nerds who built the lore turned Star Wars into a hyper fan fest, with rules and guidelines flying left and right. Disney ended that because that inspires no one. That isn’t what makes the movie industry exciting.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Star Wars lore too, and the sequel trilogy’s clearly warp and twist it. They almost make fun of it. And that is on purpose. And you just proved that it worked. It’s making the nerds so mad, that they are “boycotting” the films. And that, my friend, is the entire point.

    Your whole thing about Wicket and Snoke would be funny, sure, but it has no message. That’s what Abrams and Johnson have made very clear about this trilogy: It’s here to teach us a lesson. Disney can advertise and merchandise whatever they please; but these two expert filmmakers are here to teach something, which if you look closely, they definitely achieve.

    I enjoyed the movie. So did a lot of other people. Because they don’t care about the lore. This trilogy is for them.

    So Disney purposefully wants to tank their new franchise that cost them over $4B to acquire, because they want to anger all the fans - no. If you honestly believe that, then oh dear, I am seriously lost for words.

    Yes the casual observer may like the ST better than the PT. They still could have made the ST more fun and entertaining as well as adhering to established lore of the world.

    My Wicket and Snoke story is no different than what JJ and Johnson has served us with the ST. Sure it has a message, it subverts expectations, could give you mindless action and effects with no real story or character development and pokes fun at what many people hold dear. Its no different to the ST at all.

    As for Batwoman v. Superman - that could be really entertaining and it doesn't matter that Batwoman beats Superman down to strength without the use of kryptonite, because it doesn't matter - lore doesn't matter, as long as its entertaining, right?

    You do know that The Force Awakens made $2.07 billion and is the 4th highest grossing film of all time right?

    The Last Jedi made $1.33 Billion and is the 13th highest grossing film of all time.

    Also, ROS made $373 million in its box-office weekend.

    All old heads love the OT even though it has a bunch of plot holes too.

    Let the newer generation enjoy their version of star wars and stop hating.

    The movies arent even bad.

    These figures are not correctly reflective on the impact of the OT by comparison or even the PT.
    You have to look at inflation, number of cinemas in the world that showed each film etc etc - lots of factors.

    I can say this with certainty - if the ST respected legendary characters, lore and overall were better written movies - it would have made much more money.

    The ST re-united and brought back the original heroes that made star warts what it is - and they dropped the ball. So many fans were pumped for the ST and expectations were most certainly subverted.

    I'd love to know exactly where the plot holes are in the OT as you state.

  • LordDirt
    1287 posts Member
    The Last Jedi
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.
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