Favourite Sequel Trilogy Movie

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Replies

  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Nihion wrote: »
    The money making comes from a general audience. My mother watches Star Wars and loved the ST. Why? Because they didn’t spend time going over the lore.

    The ST was NOT, I repeat, was NOT built for “Star Wars nerds,” as they call us. It was made for a general audience. The great visuals, the music, the decent but exciting adventures in the ST bring in a large general audience. And although the box office results may be decreasing with these movies, I think Star Wars has built enough of a general audience that it doesn’t have to worry about paying the bills.

    There is also the point that @AnnaGrace made: People who got to see the OT in theaters, without the whole world knowing that Darth Vader was Luke’s father, those people are going to love the OT. The ST didn’t have the ultimate greatest ending for those characters because it was more about the generation after. But that generation after exists in the real world too. People who got to see the ST as their first Star Wars movies in theaters are going to love the ST. It feels like it’s theirs. So yeah, Boo, it sucks that Luke was just an old hermit. But we have to remember to respect what this new generation gets to have because we got that too. And all movies have their issues. But that doesn’t cover up the magic of Star Wars.

    The ST didn't have to be built for nerds and still could have catered to a new generation and general audience base, without throwing out the lore of the franchise in the process, saying otherwise is just ridiculous.

    I'll remind that Kennedy made a statement and promise to George about preserving and respecting the characters and world he created - she didn't. Again, there could easily have been more focus on the new characters and ways that the old could pass the torch, but the poor writing and complete disregard for what came before was a massive failure.

    I also disagree. I think simple people may like the ST better. But anyone who watches the ST and then once they have the taste for it go back and appreciate the actually story of the OT, would say the OT is better class of film and story telling, just without bells and whistles.

    Not everything new is automatically "better" especially when it comes to film/cinema - many remakes fail where the old classics remain respected and classic.
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.

    Can you make a list?
  • Nihion
    2819 posts Member
    Rise of Skywalker
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    The money making comes from a general audience. My mother watches Star Wars and loved the ST. Why? Because they didn’t spend time going over the lore.

    The ST was NOT, I repeat, was NOT built for “Star Wars nerds,” as they call us. It was made for a general audience. The great visuals, the music, the decent but exciting adventures in the ST bring in a large general audience. And although the box office results may be decreasing with these movies, I think Star Wars has built enough of a general audience that it doesn’t have to worry about paying the bills.

    There is also the point that @AnnaGrace made: People who got to see the OT in theaters, without the whole world knowing that Darth Vader was Luke’s father, those people are going to love the OT. The ST didn’t have the ultimate greatest ending for those characters because it was more about the generation after. But that generation after exists in the real world too. People who got to see the ST as their first Star Wars movies in theaters are going to love the ST. It feels like it’s theirs. So yeah, Boo, it sucks that Luke was just an old hermit. But we have to remember to respect what this new generation gets to have because we got that too. And all movies have their issues. But that doesn’t cover up the magic of Star Wars.

    The ST didn't have to be built for nerds and still could have catered to a new generation and general audience base, without throwing out the lore of the franchise in the process, saying otherwise is just ridiculous.

    I'll remind that Kennedy made a statement and promise to George about preserving and respecting the characters and world he created - she didn't. Again, there could easily have been more focus on the new characters and ways that the old could pass the torch, but the poor writing and complete disregard for what came before was a massive failure.

    I also disagree. I think simple people may like the ST better. But anyone who watches the ST and then once they have the taste for it go back and appreciate the actually story of the OT, would say the OT is better class of film and story telling, just without bells and whistles.

    Not everything new is automatically "better" especially when it comes to film/cinema - many remakes fail where the old classics remain respected and classic.

    Right, but this new generation gets the theater experience. That’s the difference. That’s why there’s people out there that like the PT or the ST more than the OT. It’s about what you get to see with everyone else, as it comes out and is the new big thing. So while the OT is logically the best SW trilogy, after another forty years I think that it’s going to show some signs of meh with the general population of the world.
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Nihion wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    The money making comes from a general audience. My mother watches Star Wars and loved the ST. Why? Because they didn’t spend time going over the lore.

    The ST was NOT, I repeat, was NOT built for “Star Wars nerds,” as they call us. It was made for a general audience. The great visuals, the music, the decent but exciting adventures in the ST bring in a large general audience. And although the box office results may be decreasing with these movies, I think Star Wars has built enough of a general audience that it doesn’t have to worry about paying the bills.

    There is also the point that @AnnaGrace made: People who got to see the OT in theaters, without the whole world knowing that Darth Vader was Luke’s father, those people are going to love the OT. The ST didn’t have the ultimate greatest ending for those characters because it was more about the generation after. But that generation after exists in the real world too. People who got to see the ST as their first Star Wars movies in theaters are going to love the ST. It feels like it’s theirs. So yeah, Boo, it sucks that Luke was just an old hermit. But we have to remember to respect what this new generation gets to have because we got that too. And all movies have their issues. But that doesn’t cover up the magic of Star Wars.

    The ST didn't have to be built for nerds and still could have catered to a new generation and general audience base, without throwing out the lore of the franchise in the process, saying otherwise is just ridiculous.

    I'll remind that Kennedy made a statement and promise to George about preserving and respecting the characters and world he created - she didn't. Again, there could easily have been more focus on the new characters and ways that the old could pass the torch, but the poor writing and complete disregard for what came before was a massive failure.

    I also disagree. I think simple people may like the ST better. But anyone who watches the ST and then once they have the taste for it go back and appreciate the actually story of the OT, would say the OT is better class of film and story telling, just without bells and whistles.

    Not everything new is automatically "better" especially when it comes to film/cinema - many remakes fail where the old classics remain respected and classic.

    Right, but this new generation gets the theater experience. That’s the difference. That’s why there’s people out there that like the PT or the ST more than the OT. It’s about what you get to see with everyone else, as it comes out and is the new big thing. So while the OT is logically the best SW trilogy, after another forty years I think that it’s going to show some signs of meh with the general population of the world.

    I get what you are saying - but if a new movie comes along that breaks or flat out ignores everything that made the franchise the success it was - that's bad, that's my point.

    You can't just make it all up as you go along, that's the problem with the ST, but was also the problem with TLJ being a middle piece that should connect a trilogy, when it did anything but. Then we get what we got with TROS.
  • LordDirt
    1377 posts Member
    edited June 2
    The Last Jedi
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.

    Can you make a list?

    Look up plot holes for each movie. Not too hard to find.

    Here are some: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-biggest-plot-holes-obvious-dont-make-sense/
  • Nihion
    2819 posts Member
    Rise of Skywalker
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.

    Can you make a list?

    Look up plot holes for each movie. Not too hard to find.

    Here are some: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-biggest-plot-holes-obvious-dont-make-sense/

    Did you read that article? There’s only like three of them that weren’t created by the prequels, and those were petty at best. Leia’s dress? Who cares, and the article attempts to explain it anyway. Leia grieving for Alderaan? She easily could’ve pushed off her feelings until after the movie, Leia understands that she’s facing constant challenges that need her help. Why did Palp give them Death Star plans with a legitimate weakness? To give them hope, and then keep them there.

    I’m not even going to address the prequel ones, those aren’t OT plot holes. I mean, I’m all for every movie having plot holes, but these aren’t good enough to make the list. Next time, I suggest not using Screen Rant.
  • Nihion
    2819 posts Member
    Rise of Skywalker
    The Force questions are mostly legitimate, but that kind of discontinuity exists with almost every “out of this world” power in movies. Any movie with magic, basically all Marvel powers - at some point, it’s just more important to focus on the plot.
  • LordDirt
    1377 posts Member
    The Last Jedi
    Nihion wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.

    Can you make a list?

    Look up plot holes for each movie. Not too hard to find.

    Here are some: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-biggest-plot-holes-obvious-dont-make-sense/

    Did you read that article? There’s only like three of them that weren’t created by the prequels, and those were petty at best. Leia’s dress? Who cares, and the article attempts to explain it anyway. Leia grieving for Alderaan? She easily could’ve pushed off her feelings until after the movie, Leia understands that she’s facing constant challenges that need her help. Why did Palp give them Death Star plans with a legitimate weakness? To give them hope, and then keep them there.

    I’m not even going to address the prequel ones, those aren’t OT plot holes. I mean, I’m all for every movie having plot holes, but these aren’t good enough to make the list. Next time, I suggest not using Screen Rant.

    Just giving you a link to a few. Plenty of sites listing others.
  • Nihion
    2819 posts Member
    Rise of Skywalker
    Why do we have to do the research for a stance you took?
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.

    Can you make a list?

    Look up plot holes for each movie. Not too hard to find.

    Here are some: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-biggest-plot-holes-obvious-dont-make-sense/

    Ok I'll answer every single one:

    1. Anakin somehow has a force ghost - He was the force personified, like Jesus going to heaven. He didn't need to learn this power as he unknowingly already had it being the chosen one.

    2. Luke isn't really hiding living with the Lars - no he isn't, but sometimes the best hiding is in plain sight. It has also been established that Anakin/Vader hated Tattooine and never wanted to return to that planet after his loss of Shmi and his longstanding hatred of sand. Vader also shed everything to do with his former self, even the the name "Anakin Skywalker" no longer has any meaning to him. Vader would not give a second thought about a mere step-brother he barely knew living on a backwater dust bowl of a planet.

    3. No one recognizes R2 or 3PO - For this you must remember 3PO had his mind wiped at the end of ROTS, we do not know id R2 ever did at some point (likely not). Agreed Kenobi may not care to recognize 3PO as he was Padme's translator in the Senate and changed his appearance a number of time, 3PO had no real connection with Kenobi. R2 did however. While R2 may remember Kenobi, Obi Wan never had attachments, ther were plenty of droids in the Clone Wars and R2 to Kenobi is just another droid. Kenobi even told Anakin as much when Anakin lost R2 in one of the episodes o the Clone Wars - droids were not important to Obi Wan - he was right, he never did own a droid and he was certainly not very forthcoming with Luke either. Kenobi told the truth that he never owned a droid, and while keeping the identity of Luke's father a secret, perhaps Kenobi didn't want to shed any more possible light on that issue if he recognized R2.

    Ownen Lars doesn't remember R2 or 3PO either as R2 visited the moisture farm many years ago for like a day, and 3PO looked entirely different, again many years ago and 3PO himself had his mind wiped.

    4. Leia "remembers" her mother - No. She said she has images and feelings, that her mother was beautiful but sad. That is all Leia says. Leia is powerful in the force and perhaps could have carried those feelings through the force and through her life. The force doesn't work the same for everyone, hence Luke not sharing this. Luke also grew up with a focus and loss about his father, while Leia knowingly grew up as being adopted with Senator Organa, who was a friend of Padme's and likely spoke about her - Leia also followed politics, where Luke followed the way of the Jedi, which was reflective as to their connections with their parents.

    5. Use the Force or Don't - Luke was still developing his abilities, so while he "pulled" his lightsaber out of the snow, he may not have been so calm and collective with other abilities such as throwing a skull to close the Rancor pit (a good throw nonetheless likely achieved through the force anyway). Luke could not use the force against the Ewoks in a forceful way, but he did use it in a passive way. The biggest issues of people not using the force are actually seen on the ST with Kylo Ren running around like a headless chicken when disarmed against Snoke's guards, or getting his butt handed to him by his own knights until Rey "passes" him a lightsaber. So this point really does nothing but hurt the ST.

    6. The Galaxy forgets the Jedi after 20 years - When the tyrannical Empire control the galaxy and control all past, present and future info - things they want forgotten can be. They purged the Jedi out of every news, story, presence and memory in the galaxy. Palpatine also had the Jedi known as traitors before they were wiped out.
    Again this point does nothing but hurt the ST - as Luke returned the memory of the Jedi to the Galaxy yet Rey believed them to be a myth?and everyone in the ST era seems to suddenly know all about Sith? very strange.

    7. Emperor leaked the plans of the 2nd Death Star - is this a "plot hole" at all? He gave the rebels everything they needed to know because he was overconfident that they would loose. He had the element of surprise and overwhelming amount of forces to deal with them. Remember his over-confidence is his weakness.

    8. Yoda's Exile - Yoda goes into Exile because he lost the most important battle of his lifetime and that for the Galaxy, he was aging and long passed his prime. His presence would only attract the Empire and put a target on those he was with. Exile and trust in the force that he should train the champion to oppose the Empire and the Sith was his course of action - and it worked. Again, is this a plot hole? None of these points are plot holes so far, lol.

    9. Chosen One Prophecy makes no sense - Any arguments about Anakin being he chosen one or not is silly, Lucas and Filoni have both confirmed it and TROS confirms it by Anakin saying to Rey "Bring balance to the force as I did". The Mortis plotline in CW also confirms it. There was no "darkness" sensed in his training, but his future was clouded. The Jedi were not convinced he was the Chosen One, merely that he was too old and the Naboo crisis was at hand - Anakin's fate with the Jedi to be determined later. While the counsel agreed Kenobi to train Anakin, Yoda was the only one not convinced (as he told Obi Wan) but was out voted.
    The chosen one prophecy was not a loose-end, as Anakin fulfilled the role, by turning his back and destroying Vader within and destroying Sidious - that is, until the ST and its poor writing came along, lol.

    10. Force Speed in E1 only used once then forgotten - Actually if you look at the distance Obi Wan travels from pulling himself up onto the platform and running down the laser gate hallway, he did so with incredible speed, but was not fast enough, obviously. Does every force power need to be endlessly repeated anyways? Luke only projects himself across the entire galaxy once, and we only got one even of Leia Poppins to gasp over.

    11. The High Ground - Yes Obi Wan defeated Maul from a low position in a battle, however Obi wan was saying anything to try to de-escalate combat with Anakin, saying he had the high ground was another thing to say to deter Anakin from attacking. In actual real life combat scenarios, having the high ground gives incredible advantage - so this is a strategic line based on real scenarios of battle, again, not really a "plot hole" lol.

    12. Nobody knew about the Clone Army - considering the extent taken to cover it up, and elaborated upon in the CW series, its not surprising no one knew about a clone army that was commissioned in secret and location in the galaxy removed from all databanks, then anyone who did know about it were murdered. It was later discovered that Tyranus, as mentioned by Jango Fett, is Dooku - with the revelation of this truth the Jedi had to sit on it, it would cause distrust in the middle of the war in the Republic, so they relunctantly felt they needed to play along with the Sith's plans, as the Clones already seemed to have proven themselves over and over throughout the clone wars, and not loyal to the Sith.

    13. Obi Wan can't decide who his Master was - Yes Kenobi in the OT states Yoda as his master, which is different in the PT as Qui-Gon Jinn is his master. This is better explained in CW and lore of the Jedi, that Yoda had a hand in training almost all of the Jedi, particularly younglings in basics before they rise to padawans and assigned to a particular master. Yoda was also the Grand Master of the Jedi Order - so was automatically the master of all Jedi within the Order. Yoda was found of all Jedi and gave the odd one on one lessons for development regardless of age or rank of the Jedi. Yoda even gave Obi wan more training and teaching at the end of ROTS about separating his identity from the cosmic force, to become a force ghost.

    14. Ewoks make a dress for Leia - Really? this is on the list? Because Ewoks are incapable of clothing someone? Get real.

    15. Leia never grieves for Alderaan - Leia likely grieved when she returned to her cell. Why would she give Tarkin that satisfaction? Leia was a strong leader and believed in duty over emotion, she was the one to rally others and keep things going as there was no time to stop until the Death Star was destroyed - again, how is this even on the list?

    LAST ONE 16. - Why only 2 Sith? - There can only be 2 Sith Lords, Master and Apprentice, this does not mean there cannot be additional Sith Acolytes or Sith Lords in training. Vader had his Inquisitors, but they were never going to aspire to Sith Lord material. Dooku had Ventress who was an aspiring Sith Lord - before she became too powerful Sidious ordered her execution so that he could not be overthrown. This is why Dooku then took Savage Oppress as his apprentice without Sidious' knowledge. It is also likely that Sidious' hopes of an apprentice in Vader were vanquished upon his need for the suit limiting his abilities and powers. Sidious said himself to kill Vader and "take your father's place at my side!" Sidious wanted Luke to replace Vader, while Vader wanted Luke to be his apprentice and destroy the Emperor and rule the galaxy together.


    I have explained all of the points on the list with absolute ease and common sense with the established lore of the franchise - again, you cannot do so with the issues raised in regard to the ST.

    My point and position stands.
  • Boo
    4039 posts Member
    The Force Awakens
    Nihion wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Boo, there are plenty of issues in the OT.

    Can you make a list?

    Look up plot holes for each movie. Not too hard to find.

    Here are some: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-biggest-plot-holes-obvious-dont-make-sense/

    Did you read that article? There’s only like three of them that weren’t created by the prequels, and those were petty at best. Leia’s dress? Who cares, and the article attempts to explain it anyway. Leia grieving for Alderaan? She easily could’ve pushed off her feelings until after the movie, Leia understands that she’s facing constant challenges that need her help. Why did Palp give them Death Star plans with a legitimate weakness? To give them hope, and then keep them there.

    I’m not even going to address the prequel ones, those aren’t OT plot holes. I mean, I’m all for every movie having plot holes, but these aren’t good enough to make the list. Next time, I suggest not using Screen Rant.

    I think we agree on this.
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