JKA Zeta not WAI

Vondy
71 posts Member
Just added JKA zeta (“Righteous Fury”) and have been experimenting in arena. The crucial bit reads as follows:

“If Padme Amidala is an ally, she takes a bonus turn after each of Anakin’s bonus turns.”

Now when fighting DR, if Ani bonus turn is procced both he and Padme will have full TM as they are both meant to take bonus turns. After Ani’s turn, however, if Malak health threshold is tripped such that his bonus turn will kick in, he will *always* go before Padme. Now I understand that bonus turns will take precedence over full TM, but if Padme is also taking a bonus turn with Ani shouldn’t she go immediately following or at least have it be a coin flip with Malak? The current order of operations is definitely not WAI and seems like she is forgoing this bonus turn for simply having a full TM bar. Since she’ll have deathmark and invariably be targeted by Malak with his health steal, this defeats the purpose of the zeta.

I have video for any devs interested.

Replies

  • Baby_Yoda
    1412 posts Member
    edited January 4
    It's been like this forever.

    Get. Over. It.

    If you still don't want to believe it think of it like this,

    Padmé takes a bonus turn AFTER Anakins bonus turn.

    During Anakins bonus turn he triggers Malaks bonus turn then Anakins turn ends so technically Malaks bonus turn is triggered first.

    Makes sense I think.
  • Bill0207
    294 posts Member
    edited January 4
    I have the same issue in arena all the time. My padme will get death mark. Anikan will do his thing and get his bonus turn from padme going below half health which follows by malak draining padme and if padme doesnt have any protection up it's basically game over. It makes me question this zeta everytime
  • Vondy
    71 posts Member
    @Baby_Yoda your solution is to get over it? I get that many of these issues haven’t been addressed for some time but no harm in flagging it again. Padme can’t take a bonus turn after Anakin if malak kills her first. And if Malak bonus turn always takes place before Padme’s... well then she’s not getting a bonus turn is she? And that’s not WAI. Just because you don’t care about an issue doesn’t mean other players don’t.

    The devs literally said in the November Q&A that the turn order between Padme and Malak should be random and it is not.
  • 06ndjdeu8208.png
  • Vondy wrote: »
    06ndjdeu8208.png

    Oh then my favourite answer:

    RnG
  • Very unlikely. I understand they are independent events but malak has gone first in this situation in the last 8 occurrences now. Conditionally you’d have to wonder if that’s really a coin toss...
  • Yes, it does seem broken. Just like CLS mirror matches where the defending Han always shoots first now for some reason.

    But, these kinds of bugs, while frustrating for the players, are very low priority because.... well, fixing them doesn’t improve “player engagement”.
  • What may be happening is that Ani’s zeta is giving Padme a bonus turn initially that would put her ahead of anyone who simply had full TM. After Ani goes I suspect whatever bonus turn marker she had is no longer in play and she simply has 100% TM. Malak will therefore go before her with his bonus turn, every time. Operationally this could also be something like the most recent bonus turn flag gets priority. Either way, not WAI and wanted to flag it (again, I guess).
  • Gifafi
    2869 posts Member
    When rng goes against me it’s a bug obv
  • My answer to this? Avoid triggering Malak when you know it will kill Padme. It can be done (easier when sith trooper is present. Don't aoe if it won't kill malak or if Padme can't survive Malak life steal...
  • @Ultra right there with you. Amazing that they spoke to this specifically and it’s not working as the dev described in the Q&A.
  • @thedrjojo I understand that there are opportunities to avoid this issue, but often you can’t (i.e. no SiT, forced taunt on Malak). I have no trouble navigating arena or PVP. I was testing out a zeta I had neglected for some time and noticed this. Just flagging something that doesn’t work as intended or as described recently by the developers themselves.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    Malak will always go before Padme if his bonus turn triggers (not a coin toss), likewise I've noticed in a negotiator mirror match, if an opposing toon with Valor hits your ally and it procs your ETA's bonus turn, and then the opposing capital ship hits 100% TM due to valor (which procs after the bonus turn), negotiator will go first, and if it chooses to reinforce, the reinforced ship goes next

    The negotiator mirror is a small sample size situation (only my personal experience), and something I haven't seen anyone else speak up about so it could just be a series of bad coinflips

    I'd love to see a video where malak does not go before Padme if JKA procs his bonus turn because that has never happened and its not coin flip scenario

    I have also experienced that interaction, but assumed I was missing something in one of the kits. Hopefully it will get addressed in the next QnA.
  • The only workaround I found against this is try and not trigger Malak's bonus turn...kinda hard when he's the only taunter active.

    I haven't seen Padme go right after Ani when Malak's turn is triggered. Like, ever.
  • Vondy wrote: »
    06ndjdeu8208.png

    This is simply incorrect information and not how it is working. It may be what they intend to happen but in reality malaak will act before padme 100% of the time because he costs more.
  • Yeah, it is well known some time. Not working as intended right now. Would be nice If they fix it. I think Sith Empire has been Meta long enough and doesnt need extra protective mechanics anymore
  • There’s a bigger issue that nobody seems to address:

    A “bonus turn” is most definitely not actually a bonus turn. Not by what common semantics suggests, anyway.

    Filling the TM bar to 100% and giving that specific toon precedence is NOT a bonus turn. That’s “unpreventable turn-meter gain,” it’s totally different.

    A bonus turn SHOULD indicate a stop in all TM effects for all toons, toon takes a bonus turn, apply the effects of the action, and then TM starts again for all toons. However, this is very clearly not what happens, and it’s a miscarriage of bonus turns the world over.

    If my Anakin has 99% TM and his “bonus turn” is proc’d, I effectively used a zeta for a 1% TM gain. There’s nothin “bonus” about that. In this scenario, Anakin should take his bonus turn, then Padmé should take her bonus turn (if JKA is zeta’d), then JKA SHOULD return to his original 99% TM and padme to her original TM.

    What’s worse, as many players are indicating, is that there’s a sequence in which this zeta is actually harmful, and that goes against the spirit of the game.

    If my Padmé has 99% turn meter, Anakin at 98% TM, and enemy Malak at 0% TM while taunting and enemy HK at 100% TM, chances are good that my Padmé is going to die. HK brings Padmé below 50% health, gives her Deathmark, anakin gets a 2% TM increase for his “bonus turn,” attacks Malak and triggers his bonus turn, draining & killing Padmé before she gets to take her bonus turn. Complete waste of a zeta.



    The terminology “bonus turn” is completely bogus, it is false. Unpreventable turn-meter gain DOES NOT EQUAL bonus turn, and I’m very surprised that this isn’t the actual issue at-hand
  • leef
    13358 posts Member
    Dwinkelm wrote: »
    There’s a bigger issue that nobody seems to address:

    A “bonus turn” is most definitely not actually a bonus turn. Not by what common semantics suggests, anyway.

    Filling the TM bar to 100% and giving that specific toon precedence is NOT a bonus turn. That’s “unpreventable turn-meter gain,” it’s totally different.

    A bonus turn SHOULD indicate a stop in all TM effects for all toons, toon takes a bonus turn, apply the effects of the action, and then TM starts again for all toons. However, this is very clearly not what happens, and it’s a miscarriage of bonus turns the world over.

    If my Anakin has 99% TM and his “bonus turn” is proc’d, I effectively used a zeta for a 1% TM gain. There’s nothin “bonus” about that. In this scenario, Anakin should take his bonus turn, then Padmé should take her bonus turn (if JKA is zeta’d), then JKA SHOULD return to his original 99% TM and padme to her original TM.

    What’s worse, as many players are indicating, is that there’s a sequence in which this zeta is actually harmful, and that goes against the spirit of the game.

    If my Padmé has 99% turn meter, Anakin at 98% TM, and enemy Malak at 0% TM while taunting and enemy HK at 100% TM, chances are good that my Padmé is going to die. HK brings Padmé below 50% health, gives her Deathmark, anakin gets a 2% TM increase for his “bonus turn,” attacks Malak and triggers his bonus turn, draining & killing Padmé before she gets to take her bonus turn. Complete waste of a zeta.



    The terminology “bonus turn” is completely bogus, it is false. Unpreventable turn-meter gain DOES NOT EQUAL bonus turn, and I’m very surprised that this isn’t the actual issue at-hand

    That's just a matter of opinion though. "bonus turn" is just the wording they chose to use, which isn't the same as "unpreventable turn-meter gain" i might add since the bonus turn takes precedence over other toons at 100% TM.
    It's not that i disagree about the wording, but describing what a bonus turn actually does is much more "wordy" than simply refering to it as a bonus turn (eventhough it's not really a bonus turn by what common semantics suggest).
    The other alternative, changing the mechanic to make it work like common semantics suggest would drastically improve the ability itself, which arguably isn't preferable over how it currently works.
    As for your example, the way you suggest a bonus turn should work doesn't change anything if the order in which bonus turns are taken doesn't change, you'd still lose padme if she doesn't go before malak. It's also not like the zeta is harmfull, without the zeta you would have lost padme in that scenario as well. The zeta is just useless in that particular scenario, which isn't uncommon for zetas. If none of your team members gets below 50% health the zeta is completely useless as well for example.
    OT: Based on their own words and assuming malak always takes his bonus turn before padme takes hers, this is definitely bugged.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Naw
    959 posts Member
    Compare with JTR and BB8. Just saying...
  • Per EA policy, this thread will be closed, and a Bug Ticket must be opened. Only then will CG will work towards correcting it within 3 years.
    SnakesOnAPlane
  • @leef "That's just a matter of opinion though. "bonus turn" is just the wording they chose to use, which isn't the same as "unpreventable turn-meter gain" i might add since the bonus turn takes precedence over other toons at 100% TM.
    It's not that i disagree about the wording, but describing what a bonus turn actually does is much more "wordy" than simply refering to it as a bonus turn (eventhough it's not really a bonus turn by what common semantics suggest)."

    You refer to it as a matter or opinion but conclude that it's not because of what common semantics suggest .

    You agree it's not a bonus turn but suggest changing the wording is a pain.
    Next turn would be more fitting than bonus turn in this situation while also saving 1 letter lol.
  • Yea I gave him a zeta for DR matches and it hasn’t worked yet. Pretty sucky if you ask me.
  • leef
    13358 posts Member
    edited January 5
    Treeburner wrote: »
    leef "That's just a matter of opinion though. "bonus turn" is just the wording they chose to use, which isn't the same as "unpreventable turn-meter gain" i might add since the bonus turn takes precedence over other toons at 100% TM.
    It's not that i disagree about the wording, but describing what a bonus turn actually does is much more "wordy" than simply refering to it as a bonus turn (eventhough it's not really a bonus turn by what common semantics suggest)."

    You refer to it as a matter or opinion but conclude that it's not because of what common semantics suggest .

    You agree it's not a bonus turn but suggest changing the wording is a pain.
    Next turn would be more fitting than bonus turn in this situation while also saving 1 letter lol.

    How it should work is a matter of opinion, or how it should be called for that matter. That doesn't change because i agree with the person i quoted that the term "bonus turn" is giving the impression that it does slightly more than it actually does. That doesn't not make it a bonus turn, so the ability describtion isn't wrong and how it should work/be called is still just a matter of opinion.
    Hopefully that clears up what i meant.
    It's entirely possible that players come up with better wording than the devs did, but "the next turn" instead of "a bonus turn" would be worse imo. "If Padmé Amidala is an ally, she takes the next turn after each of Anakin's next turns. ", or Han Solo taking a next turn at the start of each encounter for that matter. On top of that it won't work either when Anakin triggers Malak on his "bonus/next turn" because it would result in both Padme and Malak taking the "next turn" which is obviously impossible.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Gifafi
    2869 posts Member
    a bonus turn really should be an extra immediate turn, with tm staying the same for the next turn. So, at 75% tm, gets bonus turn, then at 75% tm (not including any tm-accecting things obv). imo
  • Kyno
    22244 posts Moderator
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