Crewless ships are a bad idea

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I mean, it totally makes sense that a ship that only requires a hard node farm and no crew to star and gear is effective in defending against relic'd pilots. Sure, why not. The only thing that would make more sense is if you then gate access to capital ships behind guild activities, because everyone loves to have who they game with define how successful they can be in arenas.

Bravo.

Replies

  • Malak says Hi.
  • cannonfodder_iv
    978 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    TVF wrote: »
    As someone who went with Mal, I think crewless ships are a great idea.

    It is definitely the efficient way to go. Struggled mightily as a five star Negotiator against a six star R4 Mal starting a 7* vulture, 6* hyena and G12 Sun Fac. Then just beat a 7 star Negotiator with R4 GK / R7 Eta / R6 Fives / R4 Bossk. Quite different ROIs.

    (Edit: actually proof read...)
  • TheJEFFtm
    917 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    My problem with crewless ships is (and I know they mentioned having some ideas) is that they are harder to future proof because they will require a separate update mechanic to keep up with the power creep of crewed ships as the crew gains access to further gear levels.

    Another issue is that there are far fewer gradients available to avoid (or at least delay) the return of the dreaded ‘everything is a coin flip’ speeds are all the same metas that so many of the ship metas have had.


    Edit: jkray kinda ninja’d me while I was typing my response!
  • CrispyFett
    243 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    I mean, it totally makes sense that a ship that only requires a hard node farm and no crew to star and gear is effective in defending against relic'd pilots. Sure, why not. The only thing that would make more sense is if you then gate access to capital ships behind guild activities, because everyone loves to have who they game with define how successful they can be in arenas.

    Bravo.

    I agree with respect to the fact that farming Neg and Mal are pretty much dependent on completing the new TBs which my guild can't do yet. Its not necessarily the fact that the ships are blocked except to higher powered guilds (certainly its been done with toons like Traya originally), but the fact that even having one of those capital ships at 5* with low starred and low powered fleet ships allows you to beat teams that have 100k more GP easily. With the raid toons, simply having that toon at 5* with garbage on the rest of your squad would not allow you to dominate arena, but now with Fleet thats the way it is.
    Post edited by CrispyFett on
  • TVF
    31345 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    TVF wrote: »
    As someone who went with Mal, I think crewless ships are a great idea.

    As someone who went with Negotiator, I also think crewless ships are a great idea. One of the worst parts about older fleets is gearing bad characters that are not ideal in character battles.

    My G12 FOTP is like

    me.gif

    EDIT: I avoided Bistan and SRP.

    EDIT2: I removed the gif - wow was that large.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Jesus. We literally get ships that require no gear to be effective and people still find something to complain about. Get a grip and appreciate the very small victories we get from cg
  • TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    As someone who went with Mal, I think crewless ships are a great idea.

    As someone who went with Negotiator, I also think crewless ships are a great idea. One of the worst parts about older fleets is gearing bad characters that are not ideal in character battles.

    My G12 FOTP is like "Hi!!!!!!!"

    For now. Fear not, lots of people that didn't live through the FOTP meta will start complaining about having to put gear on him with the next few batches of GL requirements releases.

    I agree with the sentiment, but I think they struck out on trying to attain any balance. I could have seen them adding gear tiers for the ships themselves for un-crewed ships. Would have created some initial balance with the current set of ships and allowed for the future proofing concerns of jkRay and theJeff to be met.
  • The solution to the problem was to make pilot toons better in other areas of the game. Not to make pilots even more irrelevant. CG’s “solutions” always seem to just make more problems.
  • Ltswb1 wrote: »
    The solution to the problem was to make pilot toons better in other areas of the game. Not to make pilots even more irrelevant. CG’s “solutions” always seem to just make more problems.

    How were they made more irrelevant?
  • I think they need a buff tbh. We was told they’d scale comparably to that of a reliced character ship.
    My relic piloted ships have far better stats for health/protection .
  • Mupper00 wrote: »
    I think they need a buff tbh. We was told they’d scale comparably to that of a reliced character ship.
    My relic piloted ships have far better stats for health/protection .

    Well, at max levels, the Hyena is within just a few thousand combined HP of the other big tanks,
    theY-wing is definitely lower, but gets a ton of bonuses when paired with a Galactic Republic fleet that pushes it right up to the same level,
    And the vulture droid is definitely a squishy glass cannon by design, but summons an entire other ship when it dies (which may be slightly weaker, but the combined health pool certainly makes it one of the most robust of the attacker ships.

    If anything, the crewless ships are unbalanced for a massive early (and easily achieved) Return on Investment over their crewed counterparts, it is more a question of if they will be able to achieve long term balance with them as power creep rears it’s head.
  • Ltswb1 wrote: »
    The solution to the problem was to make pilot toons better in other areas of the game. Not to make pilots even more irrelevant. CG’s “solutions” always seem to just make more problems.

    How were they made more irrelevant?

    Because a bad toon that pilots a good ship that is meta is more relevant than a bad toon that pilots a ship that gets beaten by pilotless meta ships. Seems fairly obvious.
  • Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Because a bad toon that pilots a good ship that is meta is more relevant than a bad toon that pilots a ship that gets beaten by pilotless meta ships. Seems fairly obvious.

    So first off your example requires bad pilots, so it doesn't apply to all piloted ships. Also a ship being beatable in no way stops it being good or meta, so I'm going to say no, it isn't fairly obvious as those aren't mutually exclusive.

    If you had said people would be more likely to invest in ships that they don't also have to work on a character for, so older fleets would be skipped over, then perhaps you'd have a point, except what will people do until they hit Geo TB? Without knowing which stage of the game you are in I can tell you not everyone is. Ergo, all piloted ships aren't made irrelevant by pilotless ones.
  • Gifafi
    5726 posts Member
    I mean, it totally makes sense that a ship that only requires a hard node farm and no crew to star and gear is effective in defending against relic'd pilots. Sure, why not. The only thing that would make more sense is if you then gate access to capital ships behind guild activities, because everyone loves to have who they game with define how successful they can be in arenas.

    Bravo.

    Have they released any pilots and their ships together? I'm asking. I think sith bomber and the other garbage ships were released after the chars but not sure, and pilots/ships that have always been trash like res pilot have, well, always been trash, and those ships were released after the chars iirc.

    and wait, who's in your guild doesn't define how successful you are in arena? Maybe i've been in a guild so long I don't remember, but can you get the gear pieces for g13/relics other than in raids, not to mention Han GK etc?
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • I just wish all ships could be separated from pilots.
  • issue I see is CG said the BLT will have similar survivability to HT...and I just don't see that...
  • I'm not that worked up about it, but it is kind of annoying that you can't really separate from the pack by leveling up your pilot character more than your opponent. But the game definitely seems to be shifting more towards a "you win on offense ALWAYS" mindset
  • I'm not that worked up about it, but it is kind of annoying that you can't really separate from the pack by leveling up your pilot character more than your opponent. But the game definitely seems to be shifting more towards a "you win on offense ALWAYS" mindset

    The more strategy is involved...the more likely good players are to beat the AI. If combat is super simple and relies almost exclusively on gear/relic levels for strength numbers, then players will complain there's no skill involved.
  • Compared to the nightmare that is gearing the sixteen pilots of a full Rebel fleet, many of whom are middling toons, I will absolutely take four pilots who are great and important units in their own right and a couple pilotless ships forming a five ship and a capital ship core to a secondary fleet I can splash some spare change into, even if the crewless ships don't age well.
    Still not a he.
  • Nauros
    4845 posts Member
    The thing is that they painted themselves into a corner with the ship-pilot system. The options are:
    1. Crewless ships
    2. Crapton of otherwise useless pilots
    3. Complete system overhaul
    Crewless ships are imo better than a crapton of pilots and take less resources than a complete overhaul.
  • SOLUTION -
    Crewless ships would make a lot more sense if every faction had equal representation. I agree that leveling, gearing, relic'ing pilots for Rebels, Empire, etc., is totally unfair when other factions don't have to do that. They get equal or more value for much less effort. What we need is a generic Tie-Fighter (empire had millions of them after all), a generic A/B/X/Y wing for Rebels, etc.... that balances the field a bit and then no matter your investment, it nullifies the "this is not fair" line.
  • Why the need of pilots? Just release the vehicles and a new gear tech for them!

    Really looking forward towards ground vehicles and that stuff.
  • joelgs23 wrote: »
    Crewless ships would make a lot more sense if every faction had equal representation. I agree that leveling, gearing, relic'ing pilots for Rebels, Empire, etc., is totally unfair when other factions don't have to do that.
    It's not unfair if you detach it from fleet arena for a second.

    For other game modes, you'll end up needing more viable fleets, so focusing on a single crewless fleet is really only a short cut for arena. You can be competitive there with your relic GR/Rebel pilots all the same, still work on the crewless Separatist fleet and then reap the benefits in other game modes while still taking top ranks in arena.
  • Also the best fleet in the game is still all maxed crew ie negotiator with ht. From what I've seen even 7 star y wing doesnt keep up with a relic ht
  • From what I've seen even 7 star y wing doesnt keep up with a relic ht

    Just started farming Y-Wing, but I've got the Relic HT. I'll tell you how things work out once I get Y-Wing up to at least 6*.
  • I think what you really meant to say was crewed ships were a bad idea.

    Shoulda been a separate game mode from the start. Tying pilots to ships was a huge mistake out the gate IMO.
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