David v. Goliath Grand Arena Match-ups? Algorithm Design Flaw?
Hi everyone,
Here's some feedback. I keep getting crazy GAC match-ups. I feel like I'm stuck in some kind of weird gap in the match-up algorithm. Here's the breakdown:
Me v. opponent:
1. 2,498,437 v. 2,951,603 gp
2. 8 v. 10 gear 13 toons
3. 8 v. 29 gear 12 toons
4. full g13 Padme v. full g13 Darth Revan & Malak, and also full g13 JKR arena squad
5. 5* Negotiator v. 7* Negotiator fleet squad
6. 887-344-419 v. 563-928-616
We shouldn't even be in the same division really and just the gp difference alone means that my opponent has effectively four 110,000 gp squads more than me. I hardly have enough squads to fill the 6 squads required both for offense and defense.
I don't see these lopsided match-ups in my other accounts. The biggest difference seems to be that this account is much more efficient. It doesn't have as many unused/unlocked and geared characters.
Thanks!
Here's some feedback. I keep getting crazy GAC match-ups. I feel like I'm stuck in some kind of weird gap in the match-up algorithm. Here's the breakdown:
Me v. opponent:
1. 2,498,437 v. 2,951,603 gp
2. 8 v. 10 gear 13 toons
3. 8 v. 29 gear 12 toons
4. full g13 Padme v. full g13 Darth Revan & Malak, and also full g13 JKR arena squad
5. 5* Negotiator v. 7* Negotiator fleet squad
6. 887-344-419 v. 563-928-616
We shouldn't even be in the same division really and just the gp difference alone means that my opponent has effectively four 110,000 gp squads more than me. I hardly have enough squads to fill the 6 squads required both for offense and defense.
I don't see these lopsided match-ups in my other accounts. The biggest difference seems to be that this account is much more efficient. It doesn't have as many unused/unlocked and geared characters.
Thanks!
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Replies
On a separate note, it is not like the have extra 100k gp teams, it is more that they have 6 extra 70k teams. MM is based on your top characters, so you and your opponent have a similar amount of GP in your characters that would be expected to be used (2 x Def slots x 5).
;-) I'll ask him
Please link your GAC history after the results are updated with this match.
first off, i really appreciate your reply. but i also just realized that you're actually proving my point. you said in your first post that the mm gp of r5, r6, and r7 toons are weighted much more heavily than say many g12 toons. you are saying this is why I'm getting this match up and I'm not disagreeing with you. but I'm saying that doesn't make sense. it's not fair that my 5 r7 toons would be weighted equally against my opponents 2 extra g13 toons, 20 extra g12 toons and 450k more gp. how/why should this be ok? it's not equal in game play. you say that it was a choice in resource allocation but that doesn't add up either b/c the resources for 5 r7 versus r5 toons doesn't come close to what it takes to gear 20 toons to g12. the algo is off.
plus to your 70k squad example about the extra gp not making a difference. it at the very least represents a greater potential for theory crafting and strategy. someone with 450k more gp will have more toons like cls, jtr, bb8, traya, etc, to work with. and all things being equal power in numbers.
You have a significant advantage in relic levels and g11 characters and that 450k GP advantage is outside the matching top-X GP.
Also, you can't really blame matchmaking for having a g11 Mace which you don't use for anything but no Leia, ST Han or CLS, or for having a R5 Bastilla Fallen with undergeared Sith Empire.
And my credentials
If you can tell me what I am doing and why then you might actually learn something.
sorry, it's nice that you spent a little more time with your reply but that only shows the algo works for you. it doesnt show me that it's fair in a matchup like the example i gave.
Your top-X GP, division and league matches your opponent's top-X GP, division and league just like everybody else. That's as fair as it gets.
When the effect of leagues kicks in you will be matched with other players of somewhat similar performance as well as matching top-X GP. This will even out that somewhat lacking strategy of yours (judged by your GAC history from the previous GAC). It's all good.
Thank you for this reply Waqui and for taking the time. I didn't look at g11. So it looks like I have 18 g11 versus my opponents 9 g11. This is the first piece of data that leans in my direction. Besides of course my 5 of 8 toons with r7 versus my opponents 10 r5 toons. I still think the weight of r5, r6, r7 doesn't make sense, if that is really what's going on in the match making. As for the g11 Mace argument, that's really my point, with a 450k gp difference the guy on the other side has effectively many more g11 Maces in his squad. Actually he has many more g12 Maces in his squad. I think most ppl who have replied here have actually implicitly agreed that this isn't a "fair" match-up, and instead pointed to how my squad is setup incorrectly, top heavy. But again this actually reinforces my point that it is not a fair match-up. And I would still argue that 5 r7 toons and 9 more g11 toons does not compare to 20 more g12 toons and 2 more g13 toons, along with 450k gp and a 7* neg. It can't be a misallocation of gear or too top heavy squad because it would take a hell of lot more gear to get what my opponent has than what I have.
Your high r7 characters have been mentioned several times before.
10 r4 toons. Not r5.
Your Mace is included in your relevant (top-X) GP. Your opponent's 450k extra GP is outside the relevant GP. Also, the closest thing to your Mace is your opponent's g12 NI, which he actually uses. I don't see any of his top-X characters that don't serve any purpose. Either he uses them in GA or they were required to unlock characters which he uses in GA.
I interpret the responses differently. I don't see any reinforcement of your point. I don't see much agreement with you.
You focused heavily on a single team and a couple of single characters, that have weak team members around them. Your opponent took more complete teams to a viable level without taking them all the way to r7. You may have a stronger geared squad arena team, but your opponent geared his team better for GAC and TW. Don't blame your choice to not build towards GAC on matchmaking.
Misallication or just gearing choices that are weak for GAC/TW. Call it whatever you want. It was your choices. Your opponent chose differently and built a roster that is more suitable for GAC.
Yes, you focused heavily on your 4xr7 + 1xr6 Padmé team.
Yes, you're behind this guy in farming overall, yet you have matching relevant GP.
You have matching relevant GP. One player distributed they resources differently than the other.
Yes, his roster is better suited for GA than yours, but you have matching relevant GP.
It isn't. Adapt or don't. Up to you.
Not in his top-X characters if you include relics as well.
I wouldn't describe it as such, but if you say so.....
And your GP would probably be too low to be matched with him. But you're right, you don't have what he has. He has more fully viable teams, whereas many of your teams are flawed/incomplete.
I've mentioned some of those odd choices already. Mace Windu, incomplete/flawed teams etc. Accept it or not - up to you.
The ones I mentioned were your choices and yours alone.
Are all your matchups unfair or just this one?
I don't have data but with my two main accounts this one seems to have more lopsided matches. I also feel like once I get my butt kicked a few times I get easier opponents in the next round but again just an observation without data. It almost always seems like the first match in a GAC month, I lose to somebody like this example.
The effect of leagues kicks in in latter GAs.
Matchmaking is based on division and top-X GP in the first GA. Previous performance (leagues) have no influence on MM until later. Let me know if you want some advice for modding or strategy. Seeing your mods and GAC history, there's room for improvement.
Don't give up just because your opponent has higher total GP. If you built your roster well (for GA purposes) you will be fine.
To be specific, the first argument is that top-X comparison should possible be top-12 instead, at least in div 4. The second is that it is lopsided even top-X in this example, i.e. roughly 43 weighted toons to 6. The third is that not considering a gross difference in overall gp is also possibly faulty given the difference in potential theory crafting and shear power in numbers.
Did you do the comparison at roster lock or several days later (today)? Are you sure there was a 54k GP difference at roster lock?
Many more legendary toons to choose from? I only see 1, which is CLS. You chose to buy Mace Windu shards instead of Leia and ST Han which are required to unlock CLS. Your choice.
Your analysis still ignores the fact, that you have matching top-X GP and that your opponent built a roster with a top-X far better suited for GA. Yes, your opponent has more strong toons than you. However, your toons at the top have higher relics than your opponent. Yes, your opponent has more viable teams than you, since you chose to build several incomplete teams with one high relic toon, a couple well geared and a couple under geared toons. All this is the result of your farming choices. The question now is: How do you proceed with your farming in the future? Do you adapt and improve or not?