So if I beat you R7 GAS team with just DR and HK47, consistently - That isn't a problem? You'd be crying to the high heavens.
This right here. Take it a step further:
R7 DR and malak losing to JKR and Jolee
JKR losing to Traya and sion
Traya sith losing to JTR and Finn
In any of those situations people would have complained quite loudly
R7 Nest released summer 2018 on a Fleet Hard Node can nearly solo [+/- Q(L) Farmboy(L) or Hermit] an R7 full Padme team released 2019.
This is the way...
And the difference is the type of meta team we are talking about. Padme has never been the meta, she is just a legendary, off-meta character. Maybe i reached adding Traya in there, but many point to her as the beginning spiral of power creep in the past few years so I figured it was appropriate.
Besides, padme may have been the single most F2P friendly legendary character ever released.
So if I beat you R7 GAS team with just DR and HK47, consistently - That isn't a problem? You'd be crying to the high heavens.
This right here. Take it a step further:
R7 DR and malak losing to JKR and Jolee
JKR losing to Traya and sion
Traya sith losing to JTR and Finn
In any of those situations people would have complained quite loudly
R7 Nest released summer 2018 on a Fleet Hard Node can nearly solo [+/- Q(L) Farmboy(L) or Hermit] an R7 full Padme team released 2019.
This is the way...
And the difference is the type of meta team we are talking about. Padme has never been the meta, she is just a legendary, off-meta character. Maybe i reached adding Traya in there, but many point to her as the beginning spiral of power creep in the past few years so I figured it was appropriate.
Besides, padme may have been the single most F2P friendly legendary character ever released.
THEE meta? Nah, but she was part of that fantastic paper scissors rock meta we had for a bit. Definitely an amazing F2P counter team for awhile. Those aggressive negotiations 😏
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
...yet SLKR + Wat can beat Rey + full team? that okay?
People ask for diversity, but at the same they ask for their favorite team to be unbeatable.
This x 1000.
Anyone who has ever asked for meta diversity loses all legitimacy when they complain about this ability of a squad optimized for a certain kind of offense against a certain meta team to actually beat that team.
You don't get a rock-paper-scissors meta if you don't have multiple squads designed to beat each other, but then lose on defense. That's what this GA$ team does.
Of course, if you've never, ever complained about boring, mirror-match metas, then go ahead. You have every right to complain now that the meta isn't dominated by nothing but SLKR v SLKR mirror matches.
I won't listen to you because there are far better things to do with my life, but do feel free to complain.
I agree that one toon shouldn't do everything. I agree that SLKR is way better than GL Rey in raids. I think that SLKR being somewhat compromised - only in just the right circumstances, mind you - vs. a toon that was described by CG as "a mini raid boss" is perfectly fine. He has to be worse in PvP or you couldn't justify him being so much better in PvE.
They should make no changes.
That being said, there was this:
well and you will need both; if you join the 5 to 6 mio gp range in gac or any top guild.
Pfft! No. I'm in the 5Mgp range and I'm not that close to GL Rey. And I haven't even **started** on FO toons. (Though they are in better shape to start than Resistance was to start.)
We're a LONG way from the day where players in the 5M range "need" both GLs.
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
@jawa7778 you clearly don’t have slkr. Hux lead is terrible against gas, yes it beats some other teams but you don’t invest in the new character to beat b teams. I’ve done over 100 battles with slkr in arena, hux lead doesn’t work.
Check SWGOH gg in arena leaders, hux is nowhere to be seen
Just buff Kylo. I like it more than putting Hux in the Leader Slot.
The bind they've created is a big one, you can't nerf GAS, people seem to forget that for most who unlocked right away it took months to max cuz of the GET1 fiasco
And you have to be careful how you buff kylo cuz then you potentially break the game. Certain buffs would nueter GAS as a counter, which I don't think is their intention.
Easy fix, slkr is immune to max health reduction and can’t have his cooldowns increased whilst below 100% health
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
"majority"
Lol
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
"majority"
Lol
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
Beg to differ. I Don't have an r7 gas. Have come against people who have both gl in gac so they've definitely fought against someone who doesn't have a r7 gas. And I still climb to first in arena with dr with solo. Just putting it out there that things do occur that you might think impossible so don't just assume.
(Just for the record I have 50 relicd characters and am only 4 toons away from slkr)
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
"majority"
Lol
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
Beg to differ. I Don't have an r7 gas. Have come against people who have both gl in gac so they've definitely fought against someone who doesn't have a r7 gas. And I still climb to first in arena with dr with solo. Just putting it out there that things do occur that you might think impossible so don't just assume.
(Just for the record I have 50 relicd characters and am only 4 toons away from slkr)
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
"majority"
Lol
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
What's your definition of "serious player?"
You going to back that claim up with some actual data?
The fix is simple, and it should apply to GAS not Kylo: make it 25% counter chance for each light side ally at the start of a battle.
The fix is simple and it should apply to kylo not GAS: if kylo is facing an undersized squad, each critical hit counts as an extra critical hit for every toon under five at the start of the battle. So a crit on GAS solo counts as five crits.
Problem with nerfing GAS is 1) it limits his viability in GAC vs Non-kylo teams, and 2) it doesn't address the issue in kylo's kit. CG will never be able to release a toon that is strong by themselves again - even future GL.
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
"majority"
Lol
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
What's your definition of "serious player?"
You going to back that claim up with some actual data?
What they mean by "undersized or lower investment (exemplified by zombie)" should be pretty clear. It doesn't compare what it takes for a gas squad or gas vs. gl investment. They are just saying an undermanned/lower geared version of a team shouldn't perform better than the fully raised one.
With longer perspective I agree, currently everyone is more focused on the meta state. I doubt anyone would want their gl to be easily erased by an undermanned team in gac/tw.
The fix is simple, and it should apply to GAS not Kylo: make it 25% counter chance for each light side ally at the start of a battle.
The fix is simple and it should apply to kylo not GAS: if kylo is facing an undersized squad, each critical hit counts as an extra critical hit for every toon under five at the start of the battle. So a crit on GAS solo counts as five crits.
Problem with nerfing GAS is 1) it limits his viability in GAC vs Non-kylo teams, and 2) it doesn't address the issue in kylo's kit. CG will never be able to release a toon that is strong by themselves again - even future GL.
Don’t even need to do that. That only fixes it whilst GAS has Echo with him, your “fix” won’t work past echos death, which is where is issue is...
A better “fix” would be that whilst SLKR is active, any ally who attacks with advantage will crit. The crit goes through crit immunity, which is what GAS has...
doesn’t break any teams, and GAS should be able to take out SLKR with full 501st team, not just Echo
I don't think that they should fix it at all - as I think I've said.
But if they're going to "fix" it, basing counter chance on the number of allies at the start of battle would work very well. Theoretically, you could still get all the right RNG, but since the odds are so much against you it turns a reliable counter into a highly-RNG dependent counter that works a couple times a week.
No way should anything need to be changed here! Just stick a malak in your arena team and problem solved!
As mentioned earlier, kylo is the better PvE choice and has some weakness in PvP whilst rey is the opposite. I look on at my guild mates soloing sith raid and getting top rewards easily whilst they look on at my rey holding better in arena. This is perfectly balanced imo.
The actual 2 man counter is niche and is quite dependant on specific modding of gas... also like it our not Gas is a beast of a character and it's no surprise that a kit such as his can do this.
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
"majority"
Lol
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
My arena shard has one player that has both GLs. In the top 50 there is exactly one GAS, and he is g12 with no zetas. The rest is reliced padmes, revans, and a couple geos, and shaak-ti's, and there is an r7 bastilla in 5th right now.
@Nauros please highlight where I wanted it to be unbeatable? You see Rey beat gas with jawas, I’d expect some kind of parity in relation to their strength. Shouldn’t be beat by a 2 man squad which majority of the player base has at r7.
Majority of the player base has GAS at r7? Dunno what world you're in, but in my universe that is far from the truth!
Granted, I'm not sure how many people play the game. Google Play estimates >10 million downloads. If we assume that even 1 on 10 of those players are relatively active, then 40,000 General Skywalkers is not a majority: https://swgoh.gg/characters/general-skywalker/data/?filter_type=all
(It's a minority of 4%ish).
"A better “fix” would be that whilst SLKR is active, any ally who attacks with advantage will crit. The crit goes through crit immunity, which is what GAS has...
doesn’t break any teams, and GAS should be able to take out SLKR with full 501st team, not just Echo"
Replies
And the difference is the type of meta team we are talking about. Padme has never been the meta, she is just a legendary, off-meta character. Maybe i reached adding Traya in there, but many point to her as the beginning spiral of power creep in the past few years so I figured it was appropriate.
Besides, padme may have been the single most F2P friendly legendary character ever released.
THEE meta? Nah, but she was part of that fantastic paper scissors rock meta we had for a bit. Definitely an amazing F2P counter team for awhile. Those aggressive negotiations 😏
...yet SLKR + Wat can beat Rey + full team? that okay?
This x 1000.
Anyone who has ever asked for meta diversity loses all legitimacy when they complain about this ability of a squad optimized for a certain kind of offense against a certain meta team to actually beat that team.
You don't get a rock-paper-scissors meta if you don't have multiple squads designed to beat each other, but then lose on defense. That's what this GA$ team does.
Of course, if you've never, ever complained about boring, mirror-match metas, then go ahead. You have every right to complain now that the meta isn't dominated by nothing but SLKR v SLKR mirror matches.
I won't listen to you because there are far better things to do with my life, but do feel free to complain.
It's "their favorite?" My favorite is definitely not my arena team
I agree that one toon shouldn't do everything. I agree that SLKR is way better than GL Rey in raids. I think that SLKR being somewhat compromised - only in just the right circumstances, mind you - vs. a toon that was described by CG as "a mini raid boss" is perfectly fine. He has to be worse in PvP or you couldn't justify him being so much better in PvE.
They should make no changes.
That being said, there was this:
Pfft! No. I'm in the 5Mgp range and I'm not that close to GL Rey. And I haven't even **started** on FO toons. (Though they are in better shape to start than Resistance was to start.)
We're a LONG way from the day where players in the 5M range "need" both GLs.
"majority"
Lol
Check SWGOH gg in arena leaders, hux is nowhere to be seen
Easy fix, slkr is immune to max health reduction and can’t have his cooldowns increased whilst below 100% health
Yes you read it right, majority. The majority of serious players have gas r7, if not then you’re not facing slkr anyway so it’s irrelevant. Not one slkr owner will be in a shard not dominated by r7 gas and won’t face a single opponent in GAC that doesn’t include r7 gas.
Beg to differ. I Don't have an r7 gas. Have come against people who have both gl in gac so they've definitely fought against someone who doesn't have a r7 gas. And I still climb to first in arena with dr with solo. Just putting it out there that things do occur that you might think impossible so don't just assume.
(Just for the record I have 50 relicd characters and am only 4 toons away from slkr)
What's your definition of "serious player?"
You going to back that claim up with some actual data?
The fix is simple and it should apply to kylo not GAS: if kylo is facing an undersized squad, each critical hit counts as an extra critical hit for every toon under five at the start of the battle. So a crit on GAS solo counts as five crits.
Problem with nerfing GAS is 1) it limits his viability in GAC vs Non-kylo teams, and 2) it doesn't address the issue in kylo's kit. CG will never be able to release a toon that is strong by themselves again - even future GL.
That's not how the forums work.
With longer perspective I agree, currently everyone is more focused on the meta state. I doubt anyone would want their gl to be easily erased by an undermanned team in gac/tw.
Don’t even need to do that. That only fixes it whilst GAS has Echo with him, your “fix” won’t work past echos death, which is where is issue is...
A better “fix” would be that whilst SLKR is active, any ally who attacks with advantage will crit. The crit goes through crit immunity, which is what GAS has...
doesn’t break any teams, and GAS should be able to take out SLKR with full 501st team, not just Echo
But if they're going to "fix" it, basing counter chance on the number of allies at the start of battle would work very well. Theoretically, you could still get all the right RNG, but since the odds are so much against you it turns a reliable counter into a highly-RNG dependent counter that works a couple times a week.
But again, I don't think it needs a "fix".
As mentioned earlier, kylo is the better PvE choice and has some weakness in PvP whilst rey is the opposite. I look on at my guild mates soloing sith raid and getting top rewards easily whilst they look on at my rey holding better in arena. This is perfectly balanced imo.
The actual 2 man counter is niche and is quite dependant on specific modding of gas... also like it our not Gas is a beast of a character and it's no surprise that a kit such as his can do this.
My arena shard has one player that has both GLs. In the top 50 there is exactly one GAS, and he is g12 with no zetas. The rest is reliced padmes, revans, and a couple geos, and shaak-ti's, and there is an r7 bastilla in 5th right now.
Try again.
Majority of the player base has GAS at r7? Dunno what world you're in, but in my universe that is far from the truth!
Granted, I'm not sure how many people play the game. Google Play estimates >10 million downloads. If we assume that even 1 on 10 of those players are relatively active, then 40,000 General Skywalkers is not a majority:
https://swgoh.gg/characters/general-skywalker/data/?filter_type=all
(It's a minority of 4%ish).
"A better “fix” would be that whilst SLKR is active, any ally who attacks with advantage will crit. The crit goes through crit immunity, which is what GAS has...
doesn’t break any teams, and GAS should be able to take out SLKR with full 501st team, not just Echo"
Ha! Advantage!
Haha!! Crit immunity!
Bwahahaha LolCantResist crits!!!