Max Health/Protection Changes in Territory Battles

SparkyBurns
287 posts Member
edited May 15
So I can't find a definitive answer about this. In a TB will a change in max health or protection sustain from wave to wave? Example Darth Maul gains max health equal to 10% of the damage he deals. If he uses an AoE that does 30k damage to 5 enemies, his max health is now increased 15k so if it was at 30k at the beginning of the match, it is now 45k. After completing wave 1 and moving on to wave 2, does he revert back to 30k max health or remain at 45k?

Replies

  • Holshum
    12 posts Member
    I believe it depends on the character and how it is worded. I know nightsisters will not carry it, I'm not sure about Darth Maul. I also thought that if it said till end of encounter then it would not carry it forward, but till end of battle would. In that case Darth Maul should not carry it from battle to battle, but I'm not sure if descriptions necessarily always match up with reality.
  • I think that's absolutely correct. Daka, Maul, and Asajj all say "until end of encounter" and I know that both Asajj's boosts as well as Maul's "defeated enemy perks" do reset. Whereas with Darth Nihilus the ability doesn't state anything about an encounter just that he "gains their max health."

    As you said though I'm sure there's a discrepancy somewhere, but I think I get the gist of it now. (Also super disappointed because Maul sucks and this would have given him a decent use at least)
  • Sanderzas
    213 posts Member
    Maul's max health gain is also for the rest of the battle.

    Darth Maul gains 20% Max Health, gains Max Health equal to 10% of the damage he deals, and Potency equal to 0.3% of his Max Health. Whenever an enemy is defeated, Darth Maul gains bonuses for the rest of the encounter.

    First Enemy: 25% Critical Chance
    Second Enemy: 25% Evasion
    Third Enemy: 25% Max Health recovery on hitting with an attack
  • ^ this .
    I think the part where it says untill the end of the encounter has something to do with it.
  • The problem is I'm 99% sure the three boosts from killing enemies DO NOT carry over from wave to wave. If that's the case, based on how it is worded there is zero reason to believe the health gain would carry over with the others not.

    And as I said earlier, the abilities for Old Daka and Asajj are worded in the exact same manner, and those boosts for sure do not carry over from wave to wave.

    And then the final nail in the coffin for me is I looked into the ability descriptions on swgoh.gg and although I'm no programmer so those tend to be exceptionally confusing to understand, this ability has the caveat of "effect expires on round end."

    CG's definition of an encounter appears to be merely one wave in a TB
  • UdalCuain
    3396 posts Member
    The problem is I'm 99% sure the three boosts from killing enemies DO NOT carry over from wave to wave. If that's the case, based on how it is worded there is zero reason to believe the health gain would carry over with the others not.

    And as I said earlier, the abilities for Old Daka and Asajj are worded in the exact same manner, and those boosts for sure do not carry over from wave to wave.

    And then the final nail in the coffin for me is I looked into the ability descriptions on swgoh.gg and although I'm no programmer so those tend to be exceptionally confusing to understand, this ability has the caveat of "effect expires on round end."

    CG's definition of an encounter appears to be merely one wave in a TB

    Correct. An "encounter" is a wave of a multi-stage battle or a single phase of a raid. A "battle" is the full thing from start to end, encompassing all "encounters" .
  • Sanderzas
    213 posts Member
    with daka and assajj, there is mentioned until end of the encounter, with maul, nihilus and supreme leader kylo ren (his max health reduction on allies), it's not mentioned. That's the difference
  • flux_rono
    1152 posts Member
    i believe its only nihlius, maul, and young han who keep stats between encounters.
  • So the wording is nearly identical. Not sure why Maul's would progress through waves and Daka's wouldn't 87hqk0oc70p3.jpg
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  • Although I guess the "for the rest of the encounter" is just for the bonuses for enemies defeated
  • Train
    23 posts Member
    Per SWGOH.GG Ability Mechanics, it looks like Maul's unique contains portions that end at 3 different times:
    • 20% Max Health and 10% Max Health from damage last the entire battle. (No "Effect Expires On" listed)
    • 25% Crit Chance, 25% Evasion, and 25% health steal last for the encounter (Effect Expires on Encounter End)
    • Potency gain appears to trigger on and off at the beginning and end of every turn (aka round), so in essence it lasts the entire battle. (Effect triggers on 'Round Start' and expires on 'Round End'; meaning of 'round start' and 'round end' can be inferred from other abilities like Sion Pain mechanics)
  • Train wrote: »
    Per SWGOH.GG Ability Mechanics, it looks like Maul's unique contains portions that end at 3 different times:
    • 20% Max Health and 10% Max Health from damage last the entire battle. (No "Effect Expires On" listed)
    • 25% Crit Chance, 25% Evasion, and 25% health steal last for the encounter (Effect Expires on Encounter End)
    • Potency gain appears to trigger on and off at the beginning and end of every turn (aka round), so in essence it lasts the entire battle. (Effect triggers on 'Round Start' and expires on 'Round End'; meaning of 'round start' and 'round end' can be inferred from other abilities like Sion Pain mechanics)

    Awesome stuff. Glad you can read those things better than I can, haha. Well I suppose this does give Maul some redeeming value in that he should be able to stack some crazy max health in TB with enough speed on him.
  • MasterSeedy
    1918 posts Member
    Well I suppose this does give Maul some redeeming value in that he should be able to stack some crazy max health in TB with enough speed on him.

    Yep. You just have to relic him so he can survive the first wave and begin to rack up more health. So, pretty much the same as every other toon you intend to use in DS Geo after p2
  • CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Just to confirm, any part of an abilities that specify that it stops at the "end of an encounter" only will last one wave in TB. This should be consistent with what happens in Galactic War so you can try testing it there if you aren't sure.

    The enemies in Galactic War are too weak to test anything!
  • So this kept bugging me since I didn't really have 100% confidence that the Max Health gain would carry over for each wave/phase, so I finally did a bit of testing. I had already simmed GW by this point so I ran this test in just one of the Dark Side battles using just Maul and Savage.

    From the images we can see that in pic 1 I had killed 3 of the 5 enemies to this point and this was my first attack on the 4th enemy. We can see that I did 34,222 damage which would then add 3,422 (approximately) to my max health. The amount healed was for 17,840, which since this amount is 25% of my max health we can determine that Maul had 71,360 max health prior to the addition of the 3,422 via this attack.

    Pic 2 is the very next attack. Thanks to adding 10% of the previous attack's damage, we know Maul's max health should be 74,782. The amount healed was 18,695 implying a max health of 74,780, which is perfectly in line with what was expected. The damage of this attack was 34,852, so we now have a gain of 3,485 to our total. You can view the second image, the chart, to see the next several attacks - which in the interest of keeping this less cluttered I did not include in the screenshots since they do not show the 25% max health healed. The second part to Maul's ability where he gains bonuses per enemies defeated is confirmed to reset between rounds/waves/phases.

    Finally with the 3rd pic in the image we see the fourth attack of the following wave. With attacks 1-3 of this wave, we have done a total of 90,305 damage for a total max health gain of 9,030. Add in the 3,422 from the final attack of the last wave, and we gain a total of 12,452 to add to our previous confirmed max health of 74,780 for a new max health total of 87,232. Pic 3 shows a healing gain of 21,824 for a new confirmed max health of 87,296! This absolutely confirms that the health gain does remain between waves. If it had not, our max health would be closer to the amount shown in pic 1, where the first time we can ascertain that the max health had increased.

    Finally pic 4 shows a continued gain of max health with the defeat of the final enemy in the battle leaving Maul with a grand total of nearly 94k.

    For reference I have placed a screenshot of my Darth Maul's max health number prior to battle, which keep in mind also via his unique he gains 20% max health out of the gate, so the starting number at the beginning of battle was somewhere around 55,760. This means that throughout the battle Maul gained nearly 40k to his max health via his unique ability.

    Hope this helps clear things up!

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  • Sanderzas
    213 posts Member
    Maul carries his max health through wavesI noticed it in the assault battle for sith
  • Nice work, @SparkyBurns

    I appreciate all the data gathering and math. I believed that was how it would happen before, but it's nice to have it nailed down.
  • Another twist in the saga of Darth Maul! What is this, directed by M. Night Shyamalan?

    So prior to proving that Darth Maul's max health gains DID persist through waves in a battle, @CG_SBCrumb commented the following:
    CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
    Just to confirm, any part of an abilities that specify that it stops at the "end of an encounter" only will last one wave in TB. This should be consistent with what happens in Galactic War so you can try testing it there if you aren't sure.

    I then took some videos and did some math proving in a dark side hard node battle that Maul's health up did continue from wave to wave. Of course prior to doing so in this battle I had done some Galactic War fights with the intention of keeping an eye on the mechanic, and it didn't seem like the health was continuing from battle to battle, however I wasn't paying a ton of attention so I didn't write it in stone that it doesn't work there.

    BUT NO MORE

    Using my daily attempts I tried the same thing I did in the DS Hard Node battle and I can now confirm that Darth Maul's max health gain DOES NOT persist through waves in Galactic War.

    ep5kfcf37713.jpg

    Pic 1 shows the first fight in the GW, where after killing my fourth enemy I attacked the fifth, where I can see that I gained +16,264 health via the unique abilities "(Darth Maul gains) 25% Max Health recovery on hitting with an attack" so I can then infer that I have 65,056 max health to this point. I do 34,697 damage, so per his unique which states "Darth Maul gains...Max Health equal to 10% of the damage he deals..." I can then rationalize that I will now have +3,470 max health for a total of 68,526. Pic 2, the next attack in the fight confirms this as the amount healed is 17,132, which is 25% of 68,528. Pic 3 is the final attack of this wave, showing the max health gain of the attack from pic 2 with a healing amount of 18k-ish. This attack finished this GW battle.

    The very next battle progresses the same way, I kill 3 targets and then pic 4 is Maul hitting the 4th target, where we can now see the +25% max health gain from his unique. Which by now should have four more attacks (end of last round {pic 3}, plus the first three defeated enemies in this wave) at 30k damage each boosting his health by 10% each for roughly an extra 12k health, which should put his new max health total at roughly 97k. Instead we see the 25% max health heal come in at 16,609 health, for a total max health of 66,436, nearly equal to the amount we were able to factor out at this point in the previous battle. Pic 5 is the next and final hit of that battle which shows the increased max health from the attack in Pic 4 but a number still lower than that of the end of the last wave, pic 3.

    So in short I know that Maul's max health gain does continue from wave to wave in node battles, and I know it continues through waves in the Assault Battles, but despite Crumb's suggestion that you can test it in Galactic War I can now prove that that statement is false. Since we're in Light Side TB right now, I have no idea still if the health gain persists in Geo or Hoth TB, but I'm inclined to believe it does continue. My reasoning is that with Galactic War because the actual fights are interrupted, I believe that the first part of Maul's unique which grants an extra +20% max health does have to refigure at the beginning of each fight, so that mechanic might be messing with the other number carrying over. It seems like GW has it's own kind of rules, so I don't think this impacts how other modes work.

    All that said I'm still not 100% sure, and won't know until the next TB begins. So @CG_SBCrumb I proved you wrong! And for that, I expect a Maul rework to make him better!
  • Sanderzas
    213 posts Member
    CG_SBCrumb is indeed wrong because galactic war are different battles with each 1 wave, and a TB is 1 battle with 4 waves. So in galactic war the max health goes back to normal after each battle and in TB the max health keeps increasing
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