Is SWGOH a turn-based tactical or Rogue-lite RNG Fest?

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I think I figured out why everyone in my guild is so angry at the game. SWGOH is supposed to be a turn based tactical game, not some rogue-lite RNG fest. When gameplay is introduced, I should be able to gear my toons to the highest the game allows, and then defeat the game mode with some tactical gameplay.

However, many game modes is now closer to a rogue-lite where RNG rules and all your gear does is make the odds a little better. KAM mission, Geo LSTB fleet and land combat missions, all still smash your face in the dirt with RNG regardless of your maxed out R7 toons or careful tactical play.

Some people love rogue-lite as a genre, some people might love to gamble with RNG, but I think it is safe to say that the majority of us expect a turn-based tactical game for SWGOH with a little bit of RNG at best, not a massive amount of it.

Gear farming is already a frustrating exercise in RNG, don't make fools of us by having us roll the dice for KAM/Geo LSTB missions when we use full R7 squads for it.

Replies

  • Kyno
    24398 posts Moderator
    KirKanos82 wrote: »

    However, many game modes is now closer to a rogue-lite where RNG rules and all your gear does is make the odds a little better. KAM mission, Geo LSTB fleet and land combat missions, all still smash your face in the dirt with RNG regardless of your maxed out R7 toons or careful tactical play.

    The problem with this comparison is that you are looking at it with the current gear/ability cap. LS GEO is basically the proof that we have more to come.

    Yes there is always RNG, but gear does mitigate that as you approach the designed level, and strategy is always present and a big part of the game play.
  • Akenno
    512 posts Member
    RNG... No doubt! Even lost my GAC because the enemy evaded everything and resisted debuffs and it costs me the match because of it.
  • Kyno
    24398 posts Moderator
    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The problem with this comparison is that you are looking at it with the current gear/ability cap. LS GEO is basically the proof that we have more to come.

    Yes there is always RNG, but gear does mitigate that as you approach the designed level, and strategy is always present and a big part of the game play.

    yes, there is always RNG, but why release content that changes the genre of your game? And as I noted, the strategy is not enough to mitigate the RNG. Right now, if R7 teams can clear KAM with 50% success, we can laugh all the way to the bank.

    How would you like it if your favourite RTS game suddenly introduced dodge mechanics that only affected the computer AI and makes you lose 2/3 of the time even though your strategy and gameplay was perfectly sound? And then their response is "wait for a new DLC which introduces accuracy mechanics so you can win the AI again reliably"? Is that even an RTS anymore?

    they didn't change the genre of the game. everything in the game follows the same basis. You are just looking at very end game content that we have not reached yet.
  • I assume this was your guild's first experience with LS Geo TB
  • I assume this was your guild's first experience with LS Geo TB

    nah, we have been doing it since it started. the frustration in my guild is just mounting as more and more have full R7 teams but still cannot complete missions reliably. Some of them spend thousands of dollars to relic all their toons like ackbar and biggs and still RNG fails them at fleet combat. Same problem with KAM, as more of us get R7 shaakti/501st, they are experiencing the frustration with having spent so much time and effort for what is effectively a roll of the dice.
  • Kyno wrote: »

    they didn't change the genre of the game. everything in the game follows the same basis. You are just looking at very end game content that we have not reached yet.

    By releasing content that we cannot complete reliably using current gear levels and having to rely on "luck", they have effectively changed the genre of the game from tactics to gambling. You play turn based tactical games expecting your skills and strategy to make a difference, but releasing these "end game contents" before the gear levels are ready makes it an exercise in frustration. How do you not see the building anger and frustration with these releases? It laughs in the face of your effort and spits on your skills.
  • KirKanos82
    30 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Gifafi wrote: »
    what's rogue-lite?

    Maybe English isn't for you. Go find out with a google search.

    Edit 1: Have to decency to say it in my face instead of using a passive aggressive signature or whatever that is.

    Edit 2: Apologies if that has always been your signature.
  • KirKanos82 wrote: »
    I assume this was your guild's first experience with LS Geo TB

    nah, we have been doing it since it started. the frustration in my guild is just mounting as more and more have full R7 teams but still cannot complete missions reliably. Some of them spend thousands of dollars to relic all their toons like ackbar and biggs and still RNG fails them at fleet combat. Same problem with KAM, as more of us get R7 shaakti/501st, they are experiencing the frustration with having spent so much time and effort for what is effectively a roll of the dice.

    Why would anyone be spending money on Ackbar & Biggs? LOL
    What is your guild's GP and what is the number of stars you are currently getting?
  • KirKanos82
    30 posts Member
    edited May 21

    Why would anyone be spending money on Ackbar & Biggs? LOL
    What is your guild's GP and what is the number of stars you are currently getting?

    245m GP, 13* for LSTB. We hear the top guilds complete the fleet missions more reliably with rebel fleets than negotiator fleets, so some of our whales have been gearing the rebel fleet to try.
  • Its an RNG fest & it sux.

    Fleet is the biggest example of this for me.

    RNG to hit
    RNG to crit
    RNG to call assist
    RNG to assist hit
    RNG to assist crit
    RNG to debuff

    All that from 1 shot.

    It means you swing from nothing happens to 1 shot kill a fresh opponent.

    Then you toss in the fact that some character abilities are UN-resistable.
    Biggest example is D.Revan AE Fear, which is THE most broken ability in the game IMHO.
    Really, and AE unresistable entire team loose a turn. Zero Balance there.

    I'm still playing, like a masochist, but, I would never suggest the game to a new person.

    That said, a lot of the RNG could be removed from the game in other areas that would at least remove some of the pain. The biggest example of late is the Zeta change to Fleet Challenges.

    I would love for them to give that kind of treatment to the Omegas, & Purples.
    Basically anything where its a "range" of the reward to just give a flat amount.

    4-5 = Fixed 5
    3-7 = Fixed 5/6
    3-5 = Fixed 4/5
    0-2 = Fixed 1


    Or for the shard/gear sims.

    Double Hard/Character Farm Price, Double Credits, Remove Gear/Training Droids, Fix at 1 Character Shard

    Double Gear Farm Price, Double Credits, Set Droids & Purple/Gold Gear to be Fixed 1 Piece. Set Blue/Green/White gear to be 2 pieces.

    Give us a bit of a boost in overall % rate & just remove that RNG factor from rewards at least.

    But hey, that's just one man's opinion/idea.
  • Good example of great content would be the Assault battle challenge tiers. Practically impossible to complete with G12, but G13 and the right strategy makes it possible, while full R7 tends to make it a cake walk. People grumble about how tough the challenge tiers are, but it doesn't illicit as much frustration because we know that higher gear levels will solve the issue
  • My guild is about the same...still don't understand why your're complaining....or why in the world anyone would spend a cent on Ackbar or Biggs :D:D:D
  • KirKanos82
    30 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Gifafi wrote: »

    1. English is for me tyvm. You mentioned it, you explain it. I barely cared enough to ask but here we are.
    2. Maybe End Game isn't for you.
    3. it has, no worries (well, for a week or two or something, idk)

    If you don't care enough to find out then please don't care enough to comment here
  • Gifafi
    4731 posts Member
    edited May 21
    have you tried gitting gud?

    Edit: about rogue-lite, is that the name of the game? I want to know what to google
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Gifafi wrote: »
    have you tried gitting gud?

    that pretty much sums up the entire thread doesn't it? getting good doesn't help, because at the current gear levels, you still have a high chance of failure with maxed mods and gear, and perfect strategy
  • JacenRoe
    3015 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    what's rogue-lite?

    He probably meant Rogue-like.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

    Ironic he accused you of not understanding English. However, I understand and agree with the point that the degree to which RNG determines outcomes as opposed to tactics with end game content (like the KAM mission) is not fun.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    KirKanos82 wrote: »

    However, many game modes is now closer to a rogue-lite where RNG rules and all your gear does is make the odds a little better. KAM mission, Geo LSTB fleet and land combat missions, all still smash your face in the dirt with RNG regardless of your maxed out R7 toons or careful tactical play.

    The problem with this comparison is that you are looking at it with the current gear/ability cap. LS GEO is basically the proof that we have more to come.

    Yes there is always RNG, but gear does mitigate that as you approach the designed level, and strategy is always present and a big part of the game play.

    Rather see the new tool and the content that is suppose to come with, before they toss out another relic level or golden purple mods,
    We all know the team that is working progression and the new packs are working around the clock 24/7, I don't think anyone in this community would want to get any progression towards a new relic level or whatever is next in 2020
  • KirKanos82
    30 posts Member
    edited May 21
    JacenRoe wrote: »

    He probably meant Rogue-like.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

    Ironic he accused you of not understanding English. However, I understand and agree with the point that the degree to which RNG determines outcomes as opposed to tactics with end game content (like the KAM mission) is not fun.

    If you must know, rogue-lite is a subset of roguelike, a less brutal version, hence the use of "lite". Your link actually does explain it if you care to read it.
  • Kyno
    24398 posts Moderator
    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    they didn't change the genre of the game. everything in the game follows the same basis. You are just looking at very end game content that we have not reached yet.

    By releasing content that we cannot complete reliably using current gear levels and having to rely on "luck", they have effectively changed the genre of the game from tactics to gambling. You play turn based tactical games expecting your skills and strategy to make a difference, but releasing these "end game contents" before the gear levels are ready makes it an exercise in frustration. How do you not see the building anger and frustration with these releases? It laughs in the face of your effort and spits on your skills.

    One game mode is not the game. if you dont think skill and strategy matter, have your whole guild place random teams and hit auto and measure your success in that game mode vs "proper" team builds and player influenced moves.

    I approach this as I would any game or game mode, with an understanding of what it is and where I am. I dont let things like this anger or frustrate me, because that serves no purpose towards my gaming. taking a more relaxed approach towards the later stages of the "end game content" we have with the understanding that we are not likely to get there right now is a really good way to enjoy myself and play the game.

    This game has always come in "stages" or waves and always trying to ride the edge of that can be frustrating, but managing your own expectations helps keep things in perspective, and allows you to prepare for what is coming.

    They didn't change the game, it is just another example of what they have always done as they increase difficulty and broaden their approach to what they give us.
  • JacenRoe
    3015 posts Member
    I wouldn’t say the KAM mission is “less brutal.” My R7 characters walk funny after I’m done losing it.
  • ImaSmakya
    499 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    what's rogue-lite?

    He probably meant Rogue-like.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

    Ironic he accused you of not understanding English. However, I understand and agree with the point that the degree to which RNG determines outcomes as opposed to tactics with end game content (like the KAM mission) is not fun.

    What is the difference between Roguelike and Roguelite?

    Roguelike = progress completely resets after a run. You start run #n+1 exactly as you started run #n.
    Roguelite = some form of progress is preserved from one run to the next. Examples would be money, skill upgrades, etc.
  • KirKanos82
    30 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Kyno wrote: »

    This game has always come in "stages" or waves and always trying to ride the edge of that can be frustrating, but managing your own expectations helps keep things in perspective, and allows you to prepare for what is coming.

    They didn't change the game, it is just another example of what they have always done as they increase difficulty and broaden their approach to what they give us.

    TBs and Assault battles are far less frustrating as a whole because there is tiered success. However, with KAM, it is a pass/fail, hence the difference in frustration.
  • Gifafi
    4731 posts Member
    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    have you tried gitting gud?

    that pretty much sums up the entire thread doesn't it? getting good doesn't help, because at the current gear levels, you still have a high chance of failure with maxed mods and gear, and perfect strategy

    it's probably your mods, strat and/or team comp.
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • TVF
    24355 posts Member
    If there wasn't RNG in this game there'd be no reason to play it. Your goal as a player should be to minimize it. There are things you can do to minimize it. Do those things.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
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