GAC Opinion - Auto Set Defense Should Pull From Bottom of Roster

Creme
8 posts Member
Exactly what the title says. People who don't manually set their defense shouldn't have their defenses set for them from the top of their rosters. It makes the attacker's job exponentially more annoying and essentially prevents him/her from working towards any of the feats. The auto set defenses should be pulled from the bottom of people's rosters. If you're too lazy to set your defenses, you don't deserve to have a tough set up and certainly don't deserve a shot at winning.

I'm still cool with it autosetting the last known defensive set up, like in the previous round. But these hodgepodges of R7 toons sucks the fun out of the game mode.

Replies

  • Disagree.

    One of the reasons, I imagine, that the toons are pulled from the top of the roster, is that it penalises the player who didn't set MORE than the player who did.

    Yes, you do face an irritating hotch-potch of a defence, but remember that they are now severely handicapped if they decide to attack.
  • kello_511
    1327 posts Member
    Creme wrote: »
    Exactly what the title says. People who don't manually set their defense shouldn't have their defenses set for them from the top of their rosters. It makes the attacker's job exponentially more annoying and essentially prevents him/her from working towards any of the feats. The auto set defenses should be pulled from the bottom of people's rosters. If you're too lazy to set your defenses, you don't deserve to have a tough set up and certainly don't deserve a shot at winning.

    I'm still cool with it autosetting the last known defensive set up, like in the previous round. But these hodgepodges of R7 toons sucks the fun out of the game mode.

    It’s not the best solution, but neither is taking from the bottom. Either option could make it possible for the auto-defender to win.
    I personally once forgot to set my defense and ended up winning the round because I was able to clear more with my leftovers than my opponent. I felt bad about that.

    Maybe the better option would be for it to just randomly select toons. I wouldn’t count on it getting changed now though.
  • Kyno
    23504 posts Moderator
    Disagree.

    One of the reasons, I imagine, that the toons are pulled from the top of the roster, is that it penalises the player who didn't set MORE than the player who did.

    Yes, you do face an irritating hotch-potch of a defence, but remember that they are now severely handicapped if they decide to attack.

    This. The current setup makes it way more difficult to win if you forget to set a defense.

    yes it might be better for the attacking player if there was more of a mix that would make winning easier, but in theory, you would only need to win 1 match as most auto defenses would be placed by players who will not attack. (in theory)

    setting from the bottom would make it easier for the opponent to "come back", or just never interact with their defense and still be able to play an win.
  • Creme wrote: »
    Exactly what the title says. People who don't manually set their defense shouldn't have their defenses set for them from the top of their rosters. It makes the attacker's job exponentially more annoying and essentially prevents him/her from working towards any of the feats.

    I think that’s an argument against your proposal. Feats should be challenging.
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
  • Gifafi
    4048 posts Member
    what if you didn't forget to set D and you just got distracted?
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Gifafi wrote: »
    what if you didn't forget to set D and you just got distracted?

    Then you would have forgotten to set a D, regardless of the multitude of reasons why matter not.
  • Waqui
    7165 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Disagree.

    Pulling from the top of the roster makes it a nice change. You need to think carefully about how to best use your teams on offense. It's a challenge to still clear (most of) the board, but not impossible

    (and as others pointed out already: It makes it impossible for your opponent to clear much of your defense, if you set a normal defense).
    Post edited by Waqui on
  • Ggdjqjchsabjdj
    124 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Disagree to an extent. I agree that if you forgot to set defense you shouldn’t cause problems for the opposing player, but I think it’s more fun. It’s more of a challenge as you can’t use the obvious teams.
    May the force be with you.
  • ImaSmakya
    341 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    what if you didn't forget to set D and you just got distracted?

    I'm surprised you haven't started a thread asking people what in this world is more important to them in real life that could possibly distract them from playing a game on their phone.
  • Rath_Tarr
    3064 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Gifafi wrote: »
    what if you didn't forget to set D and you just got distracted?
    Then we get the complaint thread about the opponent who only set partial defense. :D

    The auto-deploy algorithm should:
    * fill every open squad / fleet slot (even for a partial deploy)
    * alternate picking toons / ships from the top and bottom of the player's roster
  • So you want maximum loot without any effort. That's not particularly good for the game.

    I think it's better to keep it the way it is, and give players the choice of a challenge (to beat those weird teams), or simply take the win (by ignoring that entire territory).
  • Creme
    8 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    Disagree.

    Pulling from the top of the roster makes it a nice change. You need to think carefully about how to best use your team's on offense. It's a challenge to still clear (most of) the board, but not impossible

    (and as others pointed out already: It makes it impossible for your opponent to clear much of your defense, if you set a normal defense).
    When you get to 5+ mil GP, unless you saved the entire top of your roster for attack, there's no way to full clear. I was still able to clear both south territories but I have nothing left to take out a R7 GAS, JTR, and 5s, and R7 JKA, Echo, and R3 JKR. And I go light on D to make sure I have enough to full clear on attack. Sure, it's more of a challenge for me and forces me to be more methodical with my attacks and definitely hamstrings the defender more but why make me work harder for the W when my opponent is the lazy one/forgot? I'm not the one trying to skate by doing the bare minimum in a game mode just to receive some semblance of rewards. You want to talk minimal effort/maximum reward, people join, do nothing, and get rewarded for it.

    If defenses were set from the bottom of the roster, in no way would it leave any possibility of that person winning even if they cleared your board. You could undersize each team and get max banners. That kind of efficiency is impossible against defenses like relic sep droids.

    While I agree feats should be challenging, my G12 old ben and g12 R2 have 0 chance against 3 random R3+ characters, even under say a CLS lead, where I might've had a chance against a normal mid tier defense.

    Additionally, it makes it extremely difficult to reach kyber when you can't clear the board even one or two rounds. I've missed kyber a few times losing I think 3 total rounds out of 12 and clearing the board every single round, win or lose. It might be different for 3v3 but the compensation for winning does very little to offset not clearing all territories.

    I want to reiterate that these are my opinions and not complaints by any means.
  • Creme wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Disagree.

    Pulling from the top of the roster makes it a nice change. You need to think carefully about how to best use your team's on offense. It's a challenge to still clear (most of) the board, but not impossible

    (and as others pointed out already: It makes it impossible for your opponent to clear much of your defense, if you set a normal defense).
    When you get to 5+ mil GP, unless you saved the entire top of your roster for attack, there's no way to full clear. I was still able to clear both south territories but I have nothing left to take out a R7 GAS, JTR, and 5s, and R7 JKA, Echo, and R3 JKR. And I go light on D to make sure I have enough to full clear on attack. Sure, it's more of a challenge for me and forces me to be more methodical with my attacks and definitely hamstrings the defender more but why make me work harder for the W when my opponent is the lazy one/forgot? I'm not the one trying to skate by doing the bare minimum in a game mode just to receive some semblance of rewards. You want to talk minimal effort/maximum reward, people join, do nothing, and get rewarded for it.

    If defenses were set from the bottom of the roster, in no way would it leave any possibility of that person winning even if they cleared your board. You could undersize each team and get max banners. That kind of efficiency is impossible against defenses like relic sep droids.

    While I agree feats should be challenging, my G12 old ben and g12 R2 have 0 chance against 3 random R3+ characters, even under say a CLS lead, where I might've had a chance against a normal mid tier defense.

    Additionally, it makes it extremely difficult to reach kyber when you can't clear the board even one or two rounds. I've missed kyber a few times losing I think 3 total rounds out of 12 and clearing the board every single round, win or lose. It might be different for 3v3 but the compensation for winning does very little to offset not clearing all territories.

    I want to reiterate that these are my opinions and not complaints by any means.

    I’m at 5.6 mil and just full cleared an auto D, so there is a way. Plus, I did manage to do the old Ben and R2 feat in his back zone with a CLS lead. The auto teams look daunting, but the lack of synergy helps tremendously. I picked my offense based on who could cause the most problems, like GAS vs GAS. Nightsisters, geos, and clones become non factors.
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
  • Kyno
    23504 posts Moderator
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    what if you didn't forget to set D and you just got distracted?
    Then we get the complaint thread about the opponent who only set partial defense. :D

    The auto-deploy algorithm should:
    * fill every open squad / fleet slot (even for a partial deploy)
    * alternate picking toons / ships from the top and bottom of the player's roster

    I have cleared auto D, but there are teams that get made that do "just work" and can mess you up.

    alternating might not limit the other player enough. maybe just pick all the leaders from the bottom.

    a semi easy option too would be to just place them as they do now but starting from the back, this would put the lower end of the placed teams in front and give an easier start for the attacker, without really changing the overall difficulty of a full clear.
  • Rath_Tarr
    3064 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    a semi easy option too would be to just place them as they do now but starting from the back, this would put the lower end of the placed teams in front and give an easier start for the attacker, without really changing the overall difficulty of a full clear.
    That could work. It would increase the potential for the attacker to break both front zones and on mixed maps like the current one, to get at their opponent's fleet.
  • Ztyle
    1967 posts Member
    I forgot to set my defense, and my opponent got my top toons in a shuffle, I actually feel sorry for him, yes he wins, but he had seriously trouble with my lower back
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    I'm Danish , Leader of the Space Slug Alliance , living the SlugLife , My collection
  • Waqui
    7165 posts Member
    Creme wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Disagree.

    Pulling from the top of the roster makes it a nice change. You need to think carefully about how to best use your team's on offense. It's a challenge to still clear (most of) the board, but not impossible

    (and as others pointed out already: It makes it impossible for your opponent to clear much of your defense, if you set a normal defense).
    When you get to 5+ mil GP, unless you saved the entire top of your roster for attack, there's no way to full clear.

    This proves you wrong:

    https://swgoh.gg/p/533347537/gac-history/?gac=19&r=2
    Creme wrote: »
    Sure, it's more of a challenge for me and forces me to be more methodical with my attacks and definitely hamstrings the defender more but why make me work harder for the W when my opponent is the lazy one/forgot?

    You can win easily without breaking a sweat. You probably just have to clear one territory, since your opponent probably won't be able to clear a single one of yours (depending on your defense ofc.). You don't work harder for the win. Winning is no problem at all. The hard work and challenge lies in clearing the board and doing feats.
    Creme wrote: »
    If defenses were set from the bottom of the roster, in no way would it leave any possibility of that person winning even if they cleared your board.

    That depends on whether the opponent plays offense or not. I sometimes battle opponents who don't attack even if they set their defense.
    Creme wrote: »
    Additionally, it makes it extremely difficult to reach kyber when you can't clear the board even one or two rounds.

    I've missed kyber a few times losing I think 3 total rounds out of 12 and clearing the board every single round, win or lose. It might be different for 3v3 but the compensation for winning does very little to offset not clearing all territories.

    In GACs that include ships you can reach Kyber quite easily. 9 wins should normally be enough. If leaving one territory not cleared prevents you from reaching Kyber you have other problems as well, f.ex. losing too many rounds.

    When ships are not included reaching Kyber is harder. I once won 11/12 without reaching Kyber.
  • Creme wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Disagree.

    Pulling from the top of the roster makes it a nice change. You need to think carefully about how to best use your team's on offense. It's a challenge to still clear (most of) the board, but not impossible

    (and as others pointed out already: It makes it impossible for your opponent to clear much of your defense, if you set a normal defense).
    When you get to 5+ mil GP, unless you saved the entire top of your roster for attack, there's no way to full clear.
    If they auto D, then you don’t have to full clear, you can win a few battles and since your opponent can’t do anything, you win. You don’t need to full clear.
    May the force be with you.
  • Jarvind
    3546 posts Member
    edited May 22
    Setting from the top makes more sense. Yes, it's more obnoxious to clear and occasionally the stars align and you end up with a team that is surprisingly not-that-bad. I faced an all-R7 JKA/Ahsoka/GMY team last round amid an auto-defense that took me two attempts.

    However, it also totally cripples that person should they choose to attack. So if you just clear a territory or two and didn't set total garbage on defense, it just about guarantees the win. It may be a low-scoring win, but

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  • Kyno
    23504 posts Moderator
    removed a few posts, lets keep this on topic and civil. There is no need for name calling.
  • Sha1218
    1 posts Member
    edited May 25
    I agree you can still clear it, but I think the main point is it takes the fun out. It happens way too often in my Division. These players usually don’t attack, so you can get the win but not high banners. For the sake of banners and people trying to climb to kyber, auto should probably set from bottom of roster.
    One opponent had absolutely no mods on any defense teams but they were all high relics, maybe to intentionally throw off matchmaking and win on D alone. This wasn’t someone who just forgot as it was round 3. It seems like cheap way to take part in GAC. I’d rather they play or don’t join at all.
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