Ahnalds account [MERGE]

Replies

  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?
  • Forum: 2700 post thread.
    CG: Nothing to see here.
    Chained since '16
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?
  • KM1
    145 posts Member
    Bck to the issue at hand: inconsistently applied TOS, fraud against the player base due to tolerance of cheating from high paying customers, lack of any apology or justification of their actions.
    Justice inconsistently applied is no justice at all!
  • feelycr
    35 posts Member
    Hi, hello, good afternoon!

    Gentle reminder that we STILL don't have a Road Ahead post OR any comments on cheating or #AhnaldGate.

    Don't invest your money on this game as long as the developers won't invest in you!
  • Byrdka
    74 posts Member
    Road ahead delayed to include a note about cheating in the release? Wishful thinking?

    They gonna drop it and go on USA holiday next week so it all blows over by the time they get back online.
  • feelycr wrote: »
    Hi, hello, good afternoon!

    Gentle reminder that we STILL don't have a Road Ahead post OR any comments on cheating or #AhnaldGate.

    Don't invest your money on this game as long as the developers won't invest in you!

    I will keep investing in the game as it is enjoyable. Don't really care that CG does not provide updates to Ahnold's specific case as it has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game.
  • rickertron wrote: »
    I will keep investing in the game as it is enjoyable. Don't really care that CG does not provide updates to Ahnold's specific case as it has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game.

    Live your dreams, buddy...not sure why you would want to spend money on characters with no content in which to play them? Perhaps you enjoy spinning your characters around?
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    feelycr wrote: »
    rickertron wrote: »
    I will keep investing in the game as it is enjoyable. Don't really care that CG does not provide updates to Ahnold's specific case as it has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game.

    Live your dreams, buddy...not sure why you would want to spend money on characters with no content in which to play them? Perhaps you enjoy spinning your characters around?

    Like you and millions of others have also been doing all these years?
  • Lrrr
    172 posts Member
    I always thought CG made up their own questions for the Q&A. Now I may have to re consider that theory. The fact they they canceled the June QA, in my assumption, to continue to avoid the cheating/TOS subject, leads me to believe they do get real questions...and knew what an overwhelming majority of the questions asked would be in June...

    So here’s to hoping they can keep hiding until July when clearly this will blow over.
  • CookieWookie
    87 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    rickertron wrote: »
    feelycr wrote: »
    Hi, hello, good afternoon!

    Gentle reminder that we STILL don't have a Road Ahead post OR any comments on cheating or #AhnaldGate.

    Don't invest your money on this game as long as the developers won't invest in you!

    I will keep investing in the game as it is enjoyable. Don't really care that CG does not provide updates to Ahnold's specific case as it has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game.

    Ahnalds case might not but them negotiating with cheaters will. Dosnt matter how much you spend you won't beat someone who's using an apk in grand arena
  • rickertron wrote: »
    feelycr wrote: »
    Hi, hello, good afternoon!

    Gentle reminder that we STILL don't have a Road Ahead post OR any comments on cheating or #AhnaldGate.

    Don't invest your money on this game as long as the developers won't invest in you!

    I will keep investing in the game as it is enjoyable. Don't really care that CG does not provide updates to Ahnold's specific case as it has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game.

    You're missing the point. Ahnalds account was, as it turns out, a smaller portion. The cheating negotiations is the real problem.
    Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?

    They literally said there is a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, and they go back on it by negotiating with cheaters. Clearly you don't know how to read.

    As for the binding arbitration, it states in the ToS if you cannot come to a resolution to a dispute you are given the right to go to binding arbitration, with an independent accredited arbitrator. If they never reply to your messages, or inquiries, how the heck are you supposed to resolve a dispute. Radio silence is not an option.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?

    They literally said there is a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, and they go back on it by negotiating with cheaters. Clearly you don't know how to read.

    As for the binding arbitration, it states in the ToS if you cannot come to a resolution to a dispute you are given the right to go to binding arbitration, with an independent accredited arbitrator. If they never reply to your messages, or inquiries, how the heck are you supposed to resolve a dispute. Radio silence is not an option.

    We are on the same side but you are into insults, ok. Let's see where that zero tolerance policy is in the tos, since you know how to read, you can help me.
  • feelycr wrote: »
    rickertron wrote: »
    I will keep investing in the game as it is enjoyable. Don't really care that CG does not provide updates to Ahnold's specific case as it has zero impact on my enjoyment of the game.

    Live your dreams, buddy...not sure why you would want to spend money on characters with no content in which to play them? Perhaps you enjoy spinning your characters around?

    You probably are early in the game or in a developing guild but JKL is perfect for light side Geo TB content, and Vader rework (let's hope it remains as is) is a decent obtainable counter to GLs for arena and GAC content, although it does have some requirements that need to be met in end game (e.g. being able to get Wat from dark side TB content). For early game there is enough content for you to do, although looking back I hope there have been some QoL improvements.
  • Totally off topic and I have not read that much comments from Kyno, but is he always referring to CG as them and they? Is he not an employee?
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    Isaacimov wrote: »
    Totally off topic and I have not read that much comments from Kyno, but is he always referring to CG as them and they? Is he not an employee?

    Nop. Voluntary forum mod with no official capacity.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Isaacimov wrote: »
    Totally off topic and I have not read that much comments from Kyno, but is he always referring to CG as them and they? Is he not an employee?

    Nop. Voluntary forum mod with no official capacity.

    lol
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    Isaacimov wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Isaacimov wrote: »
    Totally off topic and I have not read that much comments from Kyno, but is he always referring to CG as them and they? Is he not an employee?

    Nop. Voluntary forum mod with no official capacity.

    lol

    Green border, voluntary forum mods. Blue border cg people.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Isaacimov wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Isaacimov wrote: »
    Totally off topic and I have not read that much comments from Kyno, but is he always referring to CG as them and they? Is he not an employee?

    Nop. Voluntary forum mod with no official capacity.

    lol

    Green border, voluntary forum mods. Blue border cg people.

    Ah, thanks. Not that it has the feeling that there will be any swgoh forum at all for too long now
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    Yeah, people have been saying the game is dying since the 1st day of the game. Let's see how this one turns out xD
  • feelycr
    35 posts Member
    Hi, hello, good morning!

    Gentle reminder that we STILL don't have a Road Ahead post OR any comments on cheating or #AhnaldGate.

    Save your money for a game and company that will give you something worthwhile in return!
  • ShaggyB
    2390 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?

    They literally said there is a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, and they go back on it by negotiating with cheaters. Clearly you don't know how to read.

    As for the binding arbitration, it states in the ToS if you cannot come to a resolution to a dispute you are given the right to go to binding arbitration, with an independent accredited arbitrator. If they never reply to your messages, or inquiries, how the heck are you supposed to resolve a dispute. Radio silence is not an option.

    We are on the same side but you are into insults, ok. Let's see where that zero tolerance policy is in the tos, since you know how to read, you can help me.

    c47juhtu37i4.jpg

    I know where i saw it
  • ShaggyB wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?

    They literally said there is a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, and they go back on it by negotiating with cheaters. Clearly you don't know how to read.

    As for the binding arbitration, it states in the ToS if you cannot come to a resolution to a dispute you are given the right to go to binding arbitration, with an independent accredited arbitrator. If they never reply to your messages, or inquiries, how the heck are you supposed to resolve a dispute. Radio silence is not an option.

    We are on the same side but you are into insults, ok. Let's see where that zero tolerance policy is in the tos, since you know how to read, you can help me.

    c47juhtu37i4.jpg

    I know where i saw it

    Zero tolerance policy for cheaters only applies to cheaters that don't spend a lot.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?

    They literally said there is a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, and they go back on it by negotiating with cheaters. Clearly you don't know how to read.

    As for the binding arbitration, it states in the ToS if you cannot come to a resolution to a dispute you are given the right to go to binding arbitration, with an independent accredited arbitrator. If they never reply to your messages, or inquiries, how the heck are you supposed to resolve a dispute. Radio silence is not an option.

    We are on the same side but you are into insults, ok. Let's see where that zero tolerance policy is in the tos, since you know how to read, you can help me.

    c47juhtu37i4.jpg

    I know where i saw it

    Naturally I also know that post...which is not a part of the tos.
  • CG please for the love of all things just say something about this anything at this point even tell us you don't care and your doing what you want at least then we know
  • KM1
    145 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    KM1 wrote: »
    The problem is inconsistent application of TOS. Many people pay to build their collection and hope to get crystals in fair arenas and crystal equivalent buying tokens in GACs because of this payment. However when people cheat and the event organiser (CG) doesn't make-whole the injured party and instead negotiates and minimizes punishment of the cheater (because they paid them off) it is fraud.
    Inconsistent justice is no justuce at all!

    Exactly. It is consumer fraud. Buying X character and the crystals to get the gear to get them to say relic 7, is buying a reduction in the time spent to get the character to a competitve advantage.

    If they knowlingly allow cheating it negates the purchase made. You get the new character and the ability to use it, but a cheater can make said investment no different than a 3 star lvl 1 version.

    That willing interaction while stating 0 tollerance is where the true issue is. It undercuts the integritty of the game and makes ones purchases irrelevant.

    Cg, by allowing that behavior, is commiting consumer fraud against spenders. As they are selling a reduction in time spent to get to competatice advantage while knowing that users they allowed back can undercut that.

    0 tollerance is the solution.... not the option. This game is pay to win. A counter can happen and it will, but to allow a cheater to exist is not a fair counter.

    Its time to acknowledge the issue, appoligize and define what is being done now. Id love some kind of gift as well but.... i doubt we get that if the conversation is too hard to even start.

    I assume this is precisely why they haven’t made a statement yet. The cheating negotiations is far too serious and I bet all relevant companies involved have been in discussions, including all their legal representation.

    This is far from over.

    Hmm doubt a TOS can be applied in law like you can hold them accountable for not enforcing it, it's the reverse. Or is there any clause there where they promise you to enforce it when you use their product? Even if that was the case it's a lawfully binding agreement between you and the company...and not 3rd parties.

    in their ToS it states that cheating is taken on a case to case basis, unless told otherwise.

    They clearly stated in a previous post that it is a 0 tolerance policy on cheaters.....so why are cheaters still playing the game?

    This is where the problem is!

    I get that and it's entirely reasonable to demand an answer. Just not lawfully enforcable...at least with the assumption they don't obey the tos.

    it sure is enforceable, if they refuse to answer an inquiry about a refund, because you feel cheated (because of chesters) then you have every right to sue them. They are liable for their actions.

    If they dont reply then you cannot go to arbitration like it is stated in their ToS. Therefore they are circumventing their own ToS. Which would make it consumer fraud, and breach of contract since the ToS is legally binding for both parties.

    Which clause in the tos do you think warrants a legal enforcement? They draw the line what you can't do and what they can do if you do the forbidden things, nowhere does it say they have to do any of it on infringement. I'm not knowledgable about law or consumer fraud. Only talking about how to interpret tos.

    Section 15 states that if you contact the EA help desk (ea help desk tells you to contact the Dev Team) and cannot come to a resolution with regards to a dispute, you have the right to go to arbitration. But contact with a developer is a must for it to get to that point. So if a developer never replies to you or answers your question then you are being robbed of your right to arbitration. Hence consumer fraud. If you are a consumer that has gone into a contract (ToS) with a service provider (CG/EA) and they KNOWINGLY don't uphold their end of the agreement then it is fraud. There are numerous other precedents I can name here about consumer rights, and contract law, but I won't go into that. They broke their ToS, which means they broke their contract with you, but expect you to still follow the ToS?? I think not.

    Also I would like to point out that according to Google Play ToS, a developer MUST answer within 3 days time to any disputes you may have. They MUST! If they don't then it is up to Google to enforce the punishment.

    Ok, this is pretty interesting. Not practical whatsoever though. Doubt any online game company is capable of responding to all inquiries from all it's players...this looks like something more related to problems with the service, bugs etc. and not the state of the game(=quality of the product) Is there any precedent because a company haven't replied within 3 days it has been considered consumer fraud...in gaming or elsewhere?

    Quality of product....which also means quality of game play, if there are cheaters in the game, or people circumventing crystal purchases, that means the quality of the product that they paid for is not what they paid for.

    I'm just stating what is in their ToS.

    They have to reply, hence why there is a EA help desk. But because CG is so backwards they have an automated reply from EA that just says contact the Dev Team. They are the only game under the EA umbrella that does this (to my knowledge). They also have to reply if you have some form of dispute. Its just like any other company, if you have a dispute with Amazon, they will work with you to resolve the situation, always.

    Still don't understand where you refering in the tos.

    6. Rules of Conduct
    When you access or use an EA Service, you agree that you will not:
    bla bla

    We are the ones agreeing on these. They don't promise to apply any of clauses, but have a right to do so.

    And

    15. Dispute Resolutions by Binding Arbitration

    What exactly will you be disputing that they promised elsewhere in the tos as a part of the service?

    They literally said there is a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, and they go back on it by negotiating with cheaters. Clearly you don't know how to read.

    As for the binding arbitration, it states in the ToS if you cannot come to a resolution to a dispute you are given the right to go to binding arbitration, with an independent accredited arbitrator. If they never reply to your messages, or inquiries, how the heck are you supposed to resolve a dispute. Radio silence is not an option.

    We are on the same side but you are into insults, ok. Let's see where that zero tolerance policy is in the tos, since you know how to read, you can help me.

    c47juhtu37i4.jpg

    I know where i saw it

    Naturally I also know that post...which is not a part of the tos.

    So CG lied? The tame moderators need to know
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