@Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
So, my guild has been having a low TW participation rate at 38/50 joining consistently. We won 8/10 of our last TW, but today this horribly overpowered guild compared to ours (they have us on 15 key characters both in gear and #s as shown in my post above) so my question is this:
Did a having a high win % from the low % join going into a higher joining GP matchup lead to us facing what I am calling an OP guild?
The factors are all true, I just don't know if am algorithm computes it with them.
Thanks for this totally fair and fun match-up CG! We love being able to do absolutely nothing against a wall of GL's, it increases our enjoyment of this form of the game enormously. It really helps the morale! Great work. Keep it up!
Edited to add that we have 49 members deployed, because gosh darn it, wouldn't want to be accused of trying to sandbag or give the apologists more reasons to defend the amazingly communicative company that is CG.
@Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
The problem with dropping GP to fight lesser opponents is that there is a difference between a 6m gp player vs two 3m gp players...active GP means nothing when understanding the difference in rosters. Why do guilds do this, if there wasn't a roster advantage?
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
Well that was the response in the QA, in further discussion, they have said they would look into the whole system again, but nothing official or promised.
The background behind that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
That's because that's not what I said.
When they look at statistics for the game mode they dont see any particular group or entity that is falling outside of the expected range on the win loss ratio.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, it will be especially difficult when you continually ignore the matchup screenshots that people show you at your request.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, it will be especially difficult when you continually ignore the matchup screenshots that people show you at your request.
I’m not ignoring them. I look at them all, and none of them show x 6M GP players taking on 2x 3M GP players.
The screenshots are misleading, because they always report on full guild vs full guild, which is absolutely never representative of the actual match.
Anyway, it’s not worth continuing this, because I agree that matchmaking needs changed to match active GP AND number of signed up players +/- 1.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Good luck with that.
You've been given examples. And I'm a 6m+ GP player, I don't personally have issues as other lower tier players sometimes do. I'm perfectly in the know regarding why guilds drop players for TW...
I used 6m GP vs two 3m GP to make the point of the active GP argument. While I agree, and didn't intend, that this isn't the normal matchup...what is normal is seeing 38-40 vs 50, of the same "active" guild GP.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, it will be especially difficult when you continually ignore the matchup screenshots that people show you at your request.
I’m not ignoring them. I look at them all, and none of them show x 6M GP players taking on 2x 3M GP players.
You're right, but I'm pretty sure it was just a generic example to illustrate that GP is meaningless. A 6M GP player will probably be able to take out all the teams the 2 3M GP players can field if they also need to save teams for offense.
The screenshots are misleading, because they always report on full guild vs full guild, which is absolutely never representative of the actual match.
They are only mildly misleading. Sure, it's the entire guild, but because it's still usually most of the guild, it's close enough, and you always know ahead of time if either guild has a shot.
For example: this TW, we went in with 44 (out of 49). We have 27M more GP than our opponents did, even down a player. We had double the number of g13, far outclassed them in mods, and have 29 GL's to their 2. There was zero chance they were going to win. This is exactly why CG needs to fix TW matchmaking.
I think the easiest fix is what you said: use active GP and player count. This should greatly decrease the number of egregious mismatches.
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
But some guilds are always going to face an imbalance on these things.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
I agree! They clearly match according to total guild gp. They should definitely try something else. Like having x members with certain amounts of gp... yadda yadda... with ya man.
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
But some guilds are always going to face an imbalance on these things.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
You have demonstrated why the culture of this game is horrendous. You're basically normalising bad code. Why should we accept that there's an imbalance? This isn't a game with 10 guilds. This is a game with thousands.
Why has it become ok to eat **** and just say, "oh thats life".
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
But some guilds are always going to face an imbalance on these things.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
You have demonstrated why the culture of this game is horrendous. You're basically normalising bad code. Why should we accept that there's an imbalance? This isn't a game with 10 guilds. This is a game with thousands.
Why has it become ok to eat **** and just say, "oh thats life".
I’m not normalising bad code.
Do I think they should change MM to match on active GP AND number of signed up players? Yes.
Do I think they should change MM so that guilds are only matched with guilds with a similar amount of key toons? No.
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
But some guilds are always going to face an imbalance on these things.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
You have demonstrated why the culture of this game is horrendous. You're basically normalising bad code. Why should we accept that there's an imbalance? This isn't a game with 10 guilds. This is a game with thousands.
Why has it become ok to eat **** and just say, "oh thats life".
I’m not normalising bad code.
Do I think they should change MM to match on active GP AND number of signed up players? Yes.
Do I think they should change MM so that guilds are only matched with guilds with a similar amount of key toons? No.
StarSon gave you an example above, that we noticed you didn't reply too. Please feel free to reply to the example given.
Replies
I'm not even going to say it
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
Did a having a high win % from the low % join going into a higher joining GP matchup lead to us facing what I am calling an OP guild?
The factors are all true, I just don't know if am algorithm computes it with them.
Thanks for this totally fair and fun match-up CG! We love being able to do absolutely nothing against a wall of GL's, it increases our enjoyment of this form of the game enormously. It really helps the morale! Great work. Keep it up!
Edited to add that we have 49 members deployed, because gosh darn it, wouldn't want to be accused of trying to sandbag or give the apologists more reasons to defend the amazingly communicative company that is CG.
The problem with dropping GP to fight lesser opponents is that there is a difference between a 6m gp player vs two 3m gp players...active GP means nothing when understanding the difference in rosters. Why do guilds do this, if there wasn't a roster advantage?
Well that was the response in the QA, in further discussion, they have said they would look into the whole system again, but nothing official or promised.
The background behind that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
That's because that's not what I said.
When they look at statistics for the game mode they dont see any particular group or entity that is falling outside of the expected range on the win loss ratio.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, it will be especially difficult when you continually ignore the matchup screenshots that people show you at your request.
The screenshots are misleading, because they always report on full guild vs full guild, which is absolutely never representative of the actual match.
Anyway, it’s not worth continuing this, because I agree that matchmaking needs changed to match active GP AND number of signed up players +/- 1.
You've been given examples. And I'm a 6m+ GP player, I don't personally have issues as other lower tier players sometimes do. I'm perfectly in the know regarding why guilds drop players for TW...
I used 6m GP vs two 3m GP to make the point of the active GP argument. While I agree, and didn't intend, that this isn't the normal matchup...what is normal is seeing 38-40 vs 50, of the same "active" guild GP.
You're right, but I'm pretty sure it was just a generic example to illustrate that GP is meaningless. A 6M GP player will probably be able to take out all the teams the 2 3M GP players can field if they also need to save teams for offense.
They are only mildly misleading. Sure, it's the entire guild, but because it's still usually most of the guild, it's close enough, and you always know ahead of time if either guild has a shot.
For example: this TW, we went in with 44 (out of 49). We have 27M more GP than our opponents did, even down a player. We had double the number of g13, far outclassed them in mods, and have 29 GL's to their 2. There was zero chance they were going to win. This is exactly why CG needs to fix TW matchmaking.
I think the easiest fix is what you said: use active GP and player count. This should greatly decrease the number of egregious mismatches.
The same as DarjeloSalas:
Let's see your data that supports your claim. Why wait?
I mean, just read back a bit. There have been several screenshots of the matchups in this thread, and some in the other active thread.
Edit: and just to give another example
Actually I misread the original post. Thought it was directed at me, it wasn’t. So I’ll be on my way.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
You have demonstrated why the culture of this game is horrendous. You're basically normalising bad code. Why should we accept that there's an imbalance? This isn't a game with 10 guilds. This is a game with thousands.
Why has it become ok to eat **** and just say, "oh thats life".
I’m not normalising bad code.
Do I think they should change MM to match on active GP AND number of signed up players? Yes.
Do I think they should change MM so that guilds are only matched with guilds with a similar amount of key toons? No.
StarSon gave you an example above, that we noticed you didn't reply too. Please feel free to reply to the example given.
What's your point and how is it relevant to what you quote?
My point is going in with fewer players more often than not will result in a favorable matchup, and it is relevant because it is some of my data.
You know what the point is, and the relevance of the post. Let's stop pretending we don't understand...
He does this in every thread I've noticed. Must be bored with the game or something. Just ignore him, it's easier that way.
It's not relevant to my and Ggdjqjchsabjdj's discussion. As a response to me/us it made no sense. Quoting me/us made no sense.
Yes, it may be relevant to others, but why the quote?
That's not what @Ggdjqjchsabjdj and I were discussing. Your quote was pointless. Your comment may be relevant to others but not to what you quoted.
But ok, thanx at least for explaining your point.