And what very, very linear way would that be? Because my way is anything but linear, yet I have managed to make Kyber every GAC so far while progressing through four divisions.
Congrats. That's awesome news and glad you're having a fun time. When I say linear, I'm referring to following CG's path of success and how you are kind of forced to stay on that path if you want to remain competitive and be a leaderboard fanatic. But I don't look at GAC achievements and rankings as a very good indicator on how good someone or their roster is. Just look at what's up there now.
So, you claim that CG created a path of success which competitive players and "leaderboard fanatics" are forced into? Yet, here you are discussing that apparently there are more ways to be competitive and reach the top of the GAC leaderboards. Do you always contradict yourself like this? Or do you simply have a hard time deciding what you actually mean?
I understand what you're saying about GP. I acknowledge that it has a bearing on the match not accounted for within match-making.
Still a big NO to the mods bit.
You can't draw a reasonable line there and you shouldn't try.
Pre GL’s I would be inclined to agree, now absolutely not - the system needs a tweak. And I’m a perfect case in point. My roster is pushing 4.9m and it’s very optimised, including 2 GL’s. That means I have 24 G13’s that range from useless (Rose Tico) to decent (both RH’s).
I am regularly matched in GAC with players pushing 6.5 to 7.2m GP - so I am running a GP deficit in the region of 1.6m+. All of which will each have at least 1 GL. Now the GL v GL aspect is fine and in my view is how it should be. But that’s where the issues arise.
The zeta count is lopsided, in some cases my opponents having maybe 45 more zetas. And number of mods across many more toons with speeds in excess of 20+. Rose Tico at relic 5 is worth more GP than a g12 with a zeta WaT Tambor - are they comparable in impact? No.
This is where top X of each roster as an algorithm is flawed - it needs to account for other aspects that reflect roster strength - zeta count, #mods with a speed >20, # 6 dot mods. So a weighted calculation if you will. That will go a long way to ensure GL players square off with one another and avoid then ludicrously lopsided matches I have found myself in.
You had me all the way through here until you said the bit about speed. 6e mods are accounted for somewhat in that they have a higher GP than other mods.
But no, speed of mods should never, ever, ever be factored into match making.
T. Someone who's mods arent all that fast.
I beg to differ. A recent opponent of mine, had maybe 19 characters all with a speed in excess of 300 - not including GL’s. I think I have maybe 6, possibly 7. That is a massive disadvantage- with secondary speed rolls being less frequent now versus vanilla mods, this where the gulf of 1.6m+ GP starts to bite.
I am not concerned in the slightest about gaps of 300k - 600k - but when it’s pushing 1.6m+ it really starts to bite.
So, your problem would be solved if division 1 was simply split in 2 divisions?
Pre GL’s I would be inclined to agree, now absolutely not - the system needs a tweak. And I’m a perfect case in point. My roster is pushing 4.9m and it’s very optimised, including 2 GL’s. That means I have 24 G13’s that range from useless (Rose Tico) to decent (both RH’s).
I am regularly matched in GAC with players pushing 6.5 to 7.2m GP - so I am running a GP deficit in the region of 1.6m+. All of which will each have at least 1 GL. Now the GL v GL aspect is fine and in my view is how it should be. But that’s where the issues arise.
The zeta count is lopsided, in some cases my opponents having maybe 45 more zetas. And number of mods across many more toons with speeds in excess of 20+. Rose Tico at relic 5 is worth more GP than a g12 with a zeta WaT Tambor - are they comparable in impact? No.
This is where top X of each roster as an algorithm is flawed - it needs to account for other aspects that reflect roster strength - zeta count, #mods with a speed >20, # 6 dot mods. So a weighted calculation if you will. That will go a long way to ensure GL players square off with one another and avoid then ludicrously lopsided matches I have found myself in.
You had me all the way through here until you said the bit about speed. 6e mods are accounted for somewhat in that they have a higher GP than other mods.
But no, speed of mods should never, ever, ever be factored into match making.
T. Someone who's mods arent all that fast.
I beg to differ. A recent opponent of mine, had maybe 19 characters all with a speed in excess of 300 - not including GL’s. I think I have maybe 6, possibly 7. That is a massive disadvantage- with secondary speed rolls being less frequent now versus vanilla mods, this where the gulf of 1.6m+ GP starts to bite.
I am not concerned in the slightest about gaps of 300k - 600k - but when it’s pushing 1.6m+ it really starts to bite.
So, your problem would be solved if division 1 was simply split in 2 divisions?
A simple divide is pointless because it needs to be based on something tangible. My point is an algorithm that reflects the strength of a roster. A blanket one size fits all approach of top X players in a roster is a very flawed approach as it isn’t accounting for other aspects that makes a roster potent.
Does there need to be further segmentation in division 1? In my view yes. But the Crux is what that division is based on - it has to be more refined.
I don’t want to be in a group similar to my GP alone - I would in all likelihood crush my opponents and that’s not what I want - I enjoy a good contest. But what’s happening at present doesn’t allow for that.
And what very, very linear way would that be? Because my way is anything but linear, yet I have managed to make Kyber every GAC so far while progressing through four divisions.
Congrats. That's awesome news and glad you're having a fun time. When I say linear, I'm referring to following CG's path of success and how you are kind of forced to stay on that path if you want to remain competitive and be a leaderboard fanatic. But I don't look at GAC achievements and rankings as a very good indicator on how good someone or their roster is. Just look at what's up there now.
So, you claim that CG created a path of success which competitive players and "leaderboard fanatics" are forced into? Yet, here you are discussing that apparently there are more ways to be competitive and reach the top of the GAC leaderboards. Do you always contradict yourself like this? Or do you simply have a hard time deciding what you actually mean?
What are talking about? Where did I say there are more ways to be competitive and reach top spots in GAC leaderboards? To maintain that position you have play a linear way, one way. This is common knowledge and has been brought up several times in this thread by others already.
And what very, very linear way would that be? Because my way is anything but linear, yet I have managed to make Kyber every GAC so far while progressing through four divisions.
Congrats. That's awesome news and glad you're having a fun time. When I say linear, I'm referring to following CG's path of success and how you are kind of forced to stay on that path if you want to remain competitive and be a leaderboard fanatic. But I don't look at GAC achievements and rankings as a very good indicator on how good someone or their roster is. Just look at what's up there now.
So, you claim that CG created a path of success which competitive players and "leaderboard fanatics" are forced into? Yet, here you are discussing that apparently there are more ways to be competitive and reach the top of the GAC leaderboards. Do you always contradict yourself like this? Or do you simply have a hard time deciding what you actually mean?
What are talking about? Where did I say there are more ways to be competitive and reach top spots in GAC leaderboards? To maintain that position you have play a linear way, one way. This is common knowledge and has been brought up several times in this thread by others already.
I wouldn't bother mate, everytime one of these conversations pops up Waqui enters and talks about what he says you mean rather than addressing what you have actually said and the intentions behind what you mean when you outline something.
Also i agree, anyone who can't see that there is an obvious way to game the system isn't looking hard enough.
And what very, very linear way would that be? Because my way is anything but linear, yet I have managed to make Kyber every GAC so far while progressing through four divisions.
Congrats. That's awesome news and glad you're having a fun time. When I say linear, I'm referring to following CG's path of success and how you are kind of forced to stay on that path if you want to remain competitive and be a leaderboard fanatic. But I don't look at GAC achievements and rankings as a very good indicator on how good someone or their roster is. Just look at what's up there now.
So, you claim that CG created a path of success which competitive players and "leaderboard fanatics" are forced into? Yet, here you are discussing that apparently there are more ways to be competitive and reach the top of the GAC leaderboards. Do you always contradict yourself like this? Or do you simply have a hard time deciding what you actually mean?
What are talking about? Where did I say there are more ways to be competitive and reach top spots in GAC leaderboards? To maintain that position you have play a linear way, one way. This is common knowledge and has been brought up several times in this thread by others already.
I wouldn't bother mate, everytime one of these conversations pops up Waqui enters and talks about what he says you mean rather than addressing what you have actually said and the intentions behind what you mean when you outline something.
Also i agree, anyone who can't see that there is an obvious way to game the system isn't looking hard enough.
Thanks. I don't think it's a not looking issue, it appears to be a this is what I do so let's try and preserve it so it can keep going issue. But I'll take your advice.
I don’t know about that rank 2 guy! But, no — no issues with rank 1.
As long as you're having fun that's all that matters in the end. It must be really hard not to level some of those very bare factions of yours up that you want to but won't risk having that easy mode activated. Mind if I ask how many waves you pull in DS Geo? LS Geo?
To highlight the fundamental flaws with the system. Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I am on the left and you are on the right.
I don't know much about the #2 guy, but I am one of the officers in Bus74's guild and in his arena shard. I don't care what anyone says - I am glad to have him in my guild. The amount of work and theory-crafting that goes into every GAC battle is off the charts - you should see the pages and pages of notes he takes to plan out every battle, plan out which units to use to complete feats, how to maximize banners by using "lesser" units on a team, where to undersize, etc. Everyone has a way they like to play, whether it's being good at raids, or maximizing TB waves, or taking first in the GAC leaderboards. You don't like the way he plays? You don't like him beating you? Get good. Because I guarantee that you don't put in the same level of effort, and definitely aren't as skilled, as he is.
Also, he's consistently one of our top TW performers (go figure - when you have a lot of unorthodox counters for meta teams, you are pretty useful in TW regardless of GP) and does well enough in TB to keep us happy. Sure he doesn't get a KAM shard because he's busy maximizing his roster for GAC, but I think having the Premiere Kyber Champion of Division 1 (and the game sense that comes with him) in our guild is worth it.
I don't know much about the #2 guy, but I am one of the officers in Bus74's guild and in his arena shard. I don't care what anyone says - I am glad to have him in my guild. The amount of work and theory-crafting that goes into every GAC battle is off the charts - you should see the pages and pages of notes he takes to plan out every battle, plan out which units to use to complete feats, how to maximize banners by using "lesser" units on a team, where to undersize, etc. Everyone has a way they like to play, whether it's being good at raids, or maximizing TB waves, or taking first in the GAC leaderboards. You don't like the way he plays? You don't like him beating you? Get good. Because I guarantee that you don't put in the same level of effort, and definitely aren't as skilled, as he is.
Also, he's consistently one of our top TW performers (go figure - when you have a lot of unorthodox counters for meta teams, you are pretty useful in TW regardless of GP) and does well enough in TB to keep us happy. Sure he doesn't get a KAM shard because he's busy maximizing his roster for GAC, but I think having the Premiere Kyber Champion of Division 1 (and the game sense that comes with him) in our guild is worth it.
That’s a lot of effort for something so little. I have gained lots of respect for someone who I do not know at all. Wow.
I don’t know about that rank 2 guy! But, no — no issues with rank 1.
As long as you're having fun that's all that matters in the end. It must be really hard not to level some of those very bare factions of yours up that you want to but won't risk having that easy mode activated. Mind if I ask how many waves you pull in DS Geo? LS Geo?
To highlight the fundamental flaws with the system. Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I am on the left and you are on the right.
Not really sure what you are trying to say with this picture... you are a bit faster than he is with some of your units? And have a little more GP? You have a better Padme, Brood, and Bossk, and he has a better GAS, Malak and Thrawn. Are you saying that whoever has the highest GP, regardless of roster or skill, should be #1 in GAC, followed by the #2 in GP, etc.?
I don't know much about the #2 guy, but I am one of the officers in Bus74's guild and in his arena shard. I don't care what anyone says - I am glad to have him in my guild. The amount of work and theory-crafting that goes into every GAC battle is off the charts - you should see the pages and pages of notes he takes to plan out every battle, plan out which units to use to complete feats, how to maximize banners by using "lesser" units on a team, where to undersize, etc. Everyone has a way they like to play, whether it's being good at raids, or maximizing TB waves, or taking first in the GAC leaderboards. You don't like the way he plays? You don't like him beating you? Get good. Because I guarantee that you don't put in the same level of effort, and definitely aren't as skilled, as he is.
Also, he's consistently one of our top TW performers (go figure - when you have a lot of unorthodox counters for meta teams, you are pretty useful in TW regardless of GP) and does well enough in TB to keep us happy. Sure he doesn't get a KAM shard because he's busy maximizing his roster for GAC, but I think having the Premiere Kyber Champion of Division 1 (and the game sense that comes with him) in our guild is worth it.
Thanks for that. That's great you guys are happy and like I said, that's all that matters is that you enjoy the game you're playing. With that said, it still doesn't change the fact that the system is flawed in a major way. I'm sure it takes lots of planning to do what he does,I don't think anyone is disputing that. But again, it also shows that there are ways to play the system which should not be the case. And as far as him beating me, I wouldn't know. We would never be paired together so we'd never know.
I don’t know about that rank 2 guy! But, no — no issues with rank 1.
As long as you're having fun that's all that matters in the end. It must be really hard not to level some of those very bare factions of yours up that you want to but won't risk having that easy mode activated. Mind if I ask how many waves you pull in DS Geo? LS Geo?
To highlight the fundamental flaws with the system. Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I am on the left and you are on the right.
Excuse me, this bot uses account sharing.
You have been banned.
I don’t know about that rank 2 guy! But, no — no issues with rank 1.
As long as you're having fun that's all that matters in the end. It must be really hard not to level some of those very bare factions of yours up that you want to but won't risk having that easy mode activated. Mind if I ask how many waves you pull in DS Geo? LS Geo?
To highlight the fundamental flaws with the system. Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I am on the left and you are on the right.
Excuse me, this bot uses account sharing.
You have been banned.
Meh, with what I've spent I'll get a week vacation possibly.
I don’t know about that rank 2 guy! But, no — no issues with rank 1.
As long as you're having fun that's all that matters in the end. It must be really hard not to level some of those very bare factions of yours up that you want to but won't risk having that easy mode activated. Mind if I ask how many waves you pull in DS Geo? LS Geo?
To highlight the fundamental flaws with the system. Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I am on the left and you are on the right.
Not really sure what you are trying to say with this picture... you are a bit faster than he is with some of your units? And have a little more GP? You have a better Padme, Brood, and Bossk, and he has a better GAS, Malak and Thrawn. Are you saying that whoever has the highest GP, regardless of roster or skill, should be #1 in GAC, followed by the #2 in GP, etc.?
Not at all. I'm saying that the people that are at the top should be the best players in that division, but as it is now, that isn't possible. I think enough has been shared to leave this case behind. You all take care and keep kicking rear.
Yeah I understand how the matching works.... not much of a championship having 2nd rate rosters winning it though. After the first round, they should be matching to where you are on the leaderboard.
You are using logic. It should work that way. While the top 80 are pretty much going to be the same for most, it should be a true tournament. Round 1, if you are 3-0 then the next round the whole group should have been 3-0 in your bracket. If you were 0-3, you should move to a group that is all 0-3 player in your GP range. And the so on and so on as you move out. I assume if that happened people would cry a lot.
I currently have more fun playing my alt account in GAC. Because it isn't even close to my main account in G and there is more variety in the battles. You can switch some things up on defense that can shock some people. On my main account I can pretty much tell you the teams I will see on defense every GAC. The only time it changes if someone has had some bad RNG and has poor mods. Then you might see something different but even then, it is few and far between.
Not at all. I'm saying that the people that are at the top should be the best players in that division, but as it is now, that isn't possible. I think enough has been shared to leave this case behind. You all take care and keep kicking rear.
I'm sorry, but from the picture you posted and Bus 74's guild mate's comment, they managed to achieve better results with an inferior roster but hardworking. That sounds like the definition of a better player to me.
I can guarantee that if the thin roster was put against someone with a full roster they would get smashed no matter what the skill level of players were. Additionally, there is nothing to show that the thin roster is a better player than the full roster as they will never meet.
Having thought about it, the divisions shouldn’t be based upon total GP but whatever the MM GP is. Then for each round, players should be matched according to rank groups. After a random matchup in round 1.
At least that way, each division would get the best players in that div rather than those who have gamed the system to get the best possible match ups.
Yeah I understand how the matching works.... not much of a championship having 2nd rate rosters winning it though. After the first round, they should be matching to where you are on the leaderboard.
That is exactly how a championship should work!
It makes zero sense that people with such a roster can easily get #1... MM should be around the same GAC points from the current championship...
Terrible idea. You will see some extremely uneven matches this way - not only during the first GA where everyone start at 0 points. I believe the use of top-X GP and leagues result in more even matches.
and not with Top-X Chars...
If you do it with Top-X Chars, only those chars can be used! Not other ones!
Another terrible idea. Matching by top-X GP is actually pretty close to matching by the GP of the characters the round winners actually use to win a round (in 5v5 div. 1 + 2 at least - I didn't investigate 3v3 cases).
GAC should be about the #1 player inside the division... Not about luck in MM.
Top-X GP may result in some fair matches but doesn't work for a ranked leaderboard like GAC.
As I said, no game does such a system like we have right now. Not a single one.
MMR matchmaking or GAC points are still better and will contribute towards #1 for the division.
If they would get rid of the pricing and the leaderboard, I would go for a Top-X GP MM. (Still unfair if you have only maxed out these toons and get paired with someone that got all toons maxed)
If you do my idea, you would need more divisions to get fair matches.
If you go for Top-X GP they should restrict the matchup only to those X chars. Otherwise (as described) it is unfair and not in-line with a tournament gamemode.
I don't know much about the #2 guy, but I am one of the officers in Bus74's guild and in his arena shard. I don't care what anyone says - I am glad to have him in my guild. The amount of work and theory-crafting that goes into every GAC battle is off the charts - you should see the pages and pages of notes he takes to plan out every battle, plan out which units to use to complete feats, how to maximize banners by using "lesser" units on a team, where to undersize, etc. Everyone has a way they like to play, whether it's being good at raids, or maximizing TB waves, or taking first in the GAC leaderboards. You don't like the way he plays? You don't like him beating you? Get good. Because I guarantee that you don't put in the same level of effort, and definitely aren't as skilled, as he is.
Also, he's consistently one of our top TW performers (go figure - when you have a lot of unorthodox counters for meta teams, you are pretty useful in TW regardless of GP) and does well enough in TB to keep us happy. Sure he doesn't get a KAM shard because he's busy maximizing his roster for GAC, but I think having the Premiere Kyber Champion of Division 1 (and the game sense that comes with him) in our guild is worth it.
Yeah that’s all well and good and good on him. All I’m saying as that either he should be in a division with similar sized rosters where he can be number 1 or he plays other guys at similar ranks. There is no proof that he is any better than someone with a larger roster or the best in div 1, only that he has ‘worked the system’ to get the best possible matchup. There is no sense or logic in him being number 1 in div 1......
Yeah I understand how the matching works.... not much of a championship having 2nd rate rosters winning it though. After the first round, they should be matching to where you are on the leaderboard.
That is exactly how a championship should work!
It makes zero sense that people with such a roster can easily get #1... MM should be around the same GAC points from the current championship...
Terrible idea. You will see some extremely uneven matches this way - not only during the first GA where everyone start at 0 points. I believe the use of top-X GP and leagues result in more even matches.
and not with Top-X Chars...
If you do it with Top-X Chars, only those chars can be used! Not other ones!
Another terrible idea. Matching by top-X GP is actually pretty close to matching by the GP of the characters the round winners actually use to win a round (in 5v5 div. 1 + 2 at least - I didn't investigate 3v3 cases).
GAC should be about the #1 player inside the division... Not about luck in MM.
But it isn't about #1 player in the divisions. Otherwise it would need to be paying a huge sum for getting that and maybe 2,3 and nothing to the rest. Just like any other thing in the game, it's about the degree of success.
And what very, very linear way would that be? Because my way is anything but linear, yet I have managed to make Kyber every GAC so far while progressing through four divisions.
Congrats. That's awesome news and glad you're having a fun time. When I say linear, I'm referring to following CG's path of success and how you are kind of forced to stay on that path if you want to remain competitive and be a leaderboard fanatic. But I don't look at GAC achievements and rankings as a very good indicator on how good someone or their roster is. Just look at what's up there now.
And once again, what would that path be exactly?
Yep, that almost sums it up. The part in red isn't exactly true either. A couple well built and high relic'd teams can help your guild do much better in LS&DS Geo TB and territory wars.
So your argument is that roster management is a bad thing in a roster management game? Hilarious!
I contribute to my guild's TB and TW success just fine thanks, usually ranking in the top 10 and often top 5, though I don't have the highest GP in the guild by any means.
It simply is not necessary to max out most characters unless you are in a really high GP competitive guild. I don't have the resources to do it and I don't see the point.
The old GA matchmaking by total GP did drive roster suppression, especially if you were as fleet-heavy as I was back then. It **** and thankfully CG changed to the top{x} system when they introduced GAC.
Pre GL’s I would be inclined to agree, now absolutely not - the system needs a tweak. And I’m a perfect case in point. My roster is pushing 4.9m and it’s very optimised, including 2 GL’s. That means I have 24 G13’s that range from useless (Rose Tico) to decent (both RH’s).
I am regularly matched in GAC with players pushing 6.5 to 7.2m GP - so I am running a GP deficit in the region of 1.6m+. All of which will each have at least 1 GL. Now the GL v GL aspect is fine and in my view is how it should be. But that’s where the issues arise.
The zeta count is lopsided, in some cases my opponents having maybe 45 more zetas. And number of mods across many more toons with speeds in excess of 20+. Rose Tico at relic 5 is worth more GP than a g12 with a zeta WaT Tambor - are they comparable in impact? No.
This is where top X of each roster as an algorithm is flawed - it needs to account for other aspects that reflect roster strength - zeta count, #mods with a speed >20, # 6 dot mods. So a weighted calculation if you will. That will go a long way to ensure GL players square off with one another and avoid then ludicrously lopsided matches I have found myself in.
You had me all the way through here until you said the bit about speed. 6e mods are accounted for somewhat in that they have a higher GP than other mods.
But no, speed of mods should never, ever, ever be factored into match making.
T. Someone who's mods arent all that fast.
I beg to differ. A recent opponent of mine, had maybe 19 characters all with a speed in excess of 300 - not including GL’s. I think I have maybe 6, possibly 7. That is a massive disadvantage- with secondary speed rolls being less frequent now versus vanilla mods, this where the gulf of 1.6m+ GP starts to bite.
I am not concerned in the slightest about gaps of 300k - 600k - but when it’s pushing 1.6m+ it really starts to bite.
So, your problem would be solved if division 1 was simply split in 2 divisions?
A simple divide is pointless because it needs to be based on something tangible.
You pointed out that big differences in total GP is a problem. That problem would be solved by splitting the current div. 1 into 2 divisions, right?
My point is an algorithm that reflects the strength of a roster. A blanket one size fits all approach of top X players in a roster is a very flawed approach as it isn’t accounting for other aspects that makes a roster potent.
I highly doubt that CG aim to make completely even matches. I doubt that removing the incentive to build your roster stronger (and hence also the incentive to spend money) fits their business model.
Pre GL’s I would be inclined to agree, now absolutely not - the system needs a tweak. And I’m a perfect case in point. My roster is pushing 4.9m and it’s very optimised, including 2 GL’s. That means I have 24 G13’s that range from useless (Rose Tico) to decent (both RH’s).
I am regularly matched in GAC with players pushing 6.5 to 7.2m GP - so I am running a GP deficit in the region of 1.6m+. All of which will each have at least 1 GL. Now the GL v GL aspect is fine and in my view is how it should be. But that’s where the issues arise.
The zeta count is lopsided, in some cases my opponents having maybe 45 more zetas. And number of mods across many more toons with speeds in excess of 20+. [...]
This is where top X of each roster as an algorithm is flawed - it needs to account for other aspects that reflect roster strength - zeta count, #mods with a speed >20, # 6 dot mods. So a weighted calculation if you will. That will go a long way to ensure GL players square off with one another and avoid then ludicrously lopsided matches I have found myself in.
You had me all the way through here until you said the bit about speed. 6e mods are accounted for somewhat in that they have a higher GP than other mods.
But no, speed of mods should never, ever, ever be factored into match making.
T. Someone who's mods arent all that fast.
I beg to differ. A recent opponent of mine, had maybe 19 characters all with a speed in excess of 300 - not including GL’s. I think I have maybe 6, possibly 7. That is a massive disadvantage- with secondary speed rolls being less frequent now versus vanilla mods, this where the gulf of 1.6m+ GP starts to bite.
I am not concerned in the slightest about gaps of 300k - 600k - but when it’s pushing 1.6m+ it really starts to bite.
So, your problem would be solved if division 1 was simply split in 2 divisions?
A simple divide is pointless because it needs to be based on something tangible.
You pointed out that big differences in total GP is a problem. That problem would be solved by splitting the current div. 1 into 2 divisions, right?
My point is an algorithm that reflects the strength of a roster. A blanket one size fits all approach of top X players in a roster is a very flawed approach as it isn’t accounting for other aspects that makes a roster potent.
I highly doubt that CG aim to make completely even matches. I doubt that removing the incentive to build your roster stronger (and hence also the incentive to spend money) fits their business model.
Pre GL’s I would be inclined to agree, now absolutely not - the system needs a tweak. And I’m a perfect case in point. My roster is pushing 4.9m and it’s very optimised, including 2 GL’s. That means I have 24 G13’s that range from useless (Rose Tico) to decent (both RH’s).
I am regularly matched in GAC with players pushing 6.5 to 7.2m GP - so I am running a GP deficit in the region of 1.6m+. All of which will each have at least 1 GL. Now the GL v GL aspect is fine and in my view is how it should be. But that’s where the issues arise.
The zeta count is lopsided, in some cases my opponents having maybe 45 more zetas. And number of mods across many more toons with speeds in excess of 20+. [...]
This is where top X of each roster as an algorithm is flawed - it needs to account for other aspects that reflect roster strength - zeta count, #mods with a speed >20, # 6 dot mods. So a weighted calculation if you will. That will go a long way to ensure GL players square off with one another and avoid then ludicrously lopsided matches I have found myself in.
You had me all the way through here until you said the bit about speed. 6e mods are accounted for somewhat in that they have a higher GP than other mods.
But no, speed of mods should never, ever, ever be factored into match making.
T. Someone who's mods arent all that fast.
I beg to differ. A recent opponent of mine, had maybe 19 characters all with a speed in excess of 300 - not including GL’s. I think I have maybe 6, possibly 7. That is a massive disadvantage- with secondary speed rolls being less frequent now versus vanilla mods, this where the gulf of 1.6m+ GP starts to bite.
I am not concerned in the slightest about gaps of 300k - 600k - but when it’s pushing 1.6m+ it really starts to bite.
So, your problem would be solved if division 1 was simply split in 2 divisions?
A simple divide is pointless because it needs to be based on something tangible.
You pointed out that big differences in total GP is a problem. That problem would be solved by splitting the current div. 1 into 2 divisions, right?
My point is an algorithm that reflects the strength of a roster. A blanket one size fits all approach of top X players in a roster is a very flawed approach as it isn’t accounting for other aspects that makes a roster potent.
I highly doubt that CG aim to make completely even matches. I doubt that removing the incentive to build your roster stronger (and hence also the incentive to spend money) fits their business model.
2 divisions wouldn't solve the problem at this point. Even if the range of divisions spread more as new divisions are added, right now the range is 4.5m to 8m. I expect CG to drag it as long as they can and only do 2 when they do it since each division means having to give out more rewards for them.
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So, you claim that CG created a path of success which competitive players and "leaderboard fanatics" are forced into? Yet, here you are discussing that apparently there are more ways to be competitive and reach the top of the GAC leaderboards. Do you always contradict yourself like this? Or do you simply have a hard time deciding what you actually mean?
Still a big NO to the mods bit.
You can't draw a reasonable line there and you shouldn't try.
So, your problem would be solved if division 1 was simply split in 2 divisions?
A simple divide is pointless because it needs to be based on something tangible. My point is an algorithm that reflects the strength of a roster. A blanket one size fits all approach of top X players in a roster is a very flawed approach as it isn’t accounting for other aspects that makes a roster potent.
Does there need to be further segmentation in division 1? In my view yes. But the Crux is what that division is based on - it has to be more refined.
I don’t want to be in a group similar to my GP alone - I would in all likelihood crush my opponents and that’s not what I want - I enjoy a good contest. But what’s happening at present doesn’t allow for that.
What are talking about? Where did I say there are more ways to be competitive and reach top spots in GAC leaderboards? To maintain that position you have play a linear way, one way. This is common knowledge and has been brought up several times in this thread by others already.
I wouldn't bother mate, everytime one of these conversations pops up Waqui enters and talks about what he says you mean rather than addressing what you have actually said and the intentions behind what you mean when you outline something.
Also i agree, anyone who can't see that there is an obvious way to game the system isn't looking hard enough.
Thanks. I don't think it's a not looking issue, it appears to be a this is what I do so let's try and preserve it so it can keep going issue. But I'll take your advice.
It is the almighty one! Behold!
As long as you're having fun that's all that matters in the end. It must be really hard not to level some of those very bare factions of yours up that you want to but won't risk having that easy mode activated. Mind if I ask how many waves you pull in DS Geo? LS Geo?
To highlight the fundamental flaws with the system. Pictures are worth a thousand words they say. I am on the left and you are on the right.
Also, he's consistently one of our top TW performers (go figure - when you have a lot of unorthodox counters for meta teams, you are pretty useful in TW regardless of GP) and does well enough in TB to keep us happy. Sure he doesn't get a KAM shard because he's busy maximizing his roster for GAC, but I think having the Premiere Kyber Champion of Division 1 (and the game sense that comes with him) in our guild is worth it.
That’s a lot of effort for something so little. I have gained lots of respect for someone who I do not know at all. Wow.
Not really sure what you are trying to say with this picture... you are a bit faster than he is with some of your units? And have a little more GP? You have a better Padme, Brood, and Bossk, and he has a better GAS, Malak and Thrawn. Are you saying that whoever has the highest GP, regardless of roster or skill, should be #1 in GAC, followed by the #2 in GP, etc.?
Thanks for that. That's great you guys are happy and like I said, that's all that matters is that you enjoy the game you're playing. With that said, it still doesn't change the fact that the system is flawed in a major way. I'm sure it takes lots of planning to do what he does,I don't think anyone is disputing that. But again, it also shows that there are ways to play the system which should not be the case. And as far as him beating me, I wouldn't know. We would never be paired together so we'd never know.
Excuse me, this bot uses account sharing.
You have been banned.
Meh, with what I've spent I'll get a week vacation possibly.
Not at all. I'm saying that the people that are at the top should be the best players in that division, but as it is now, that isn't possible. I think enough has been shared to leave this case behind. You all take care and keep kicking rear.
Dang, either yall are a tight knit group or it's all one dude with more laptops than we're being led to believe
You are using logic. It should work that way. While the top 80 are pretty much going to be the same for most, it should be a true tournament. Round 1, if you are 3-0 then the next round the whole group should have been 3-0 in your bracket. If you were 0-3, you should move to a group that is all 0-3 player in your GP range. And the so on and so on as you move out. I assume if that happened people would cry a lot.
I currently have more fun playing my alt account in GAC. Because it isn't even close to my main account in G and there is more variety in the battles. You can switch some things up on defense that can shock some people. On my main account I can pretty much tell you the teams I will see on defense every GAC. The only time it changes if someone has had some bad RNG and has poor mods. Then you might see something different but even then, it is few and far between.
I'm sorry, but from the picture you posted and Bus 74's guild mate's comment, they managed to achieve better results with an inferior roster but hardworking. That sounds like the definition of a better player to me.
Having thought about it, the divisions shouldn’t be based upon total GP but whatever the MM GP is. Then for each round, players should be matched according to rank groups. After a random matchup in round 1.
At least that way, each division would get the best players in that div rather than those who have gamed the system to get the best possible match ups.
GAC should be about the #1 player inside the division... Not about luck in MM.
Top-X GP may result in some fair matches but doesn't work for a ranked leaderboard like GAC.
As I said, no game does such a system like we have right now. Not a single one.
MMR matchmaking or GAC points are still better and will contribute towards #1 for the division.
If they would get rid of the pricing and the leaderboard, I would go for a Top-X GP MM. (Still unfair if you have only maxed out these toons and get paired with someone that got all toons maxed)
If you do my idea, you would need more divisions to get fair matches.
If you go for Top-X GP they should restrict the matchup only to those X chars. Otherwise (as described) it is unfair and not in-line with a tournament gamemode.
Yeah that’s all well and good and good on him. All I’m saying as that either he should be in a division with similar sized rosters where he can be number 1 or he plays other guys at similar ranks. There is no proof that he is any better than someone with a larger roster or the best in div 1, only that he has ‘worked the system’ to get the best possible matchup. There is no sense or logic in him being number 1 in div 1......
But it isn't about #1 player in the divisions. Otherwise it would need to be paying a huge sum for getting that and maybe 2,3 and nothing to the rest. Just like any other thing in the game, it's about the degree of success.
I contribute to my guild's TB and TW success just fine thanks, usually ranking in the top 10 and often top 5, though I don't have the highest GP in the guild by any means.
It simply is not necessary to max out most characters unless you are in a really high GP competitive guild. I don't have the resources to do it and I don't see the point.
The old GA matchmaking by total GP did drive roster suppression, especially if you were as fleet-heavy as I was back then. It **** and thankfully CG changed to the top{x} system when they introduced GAC.
You pointed out that big differences in total GP is a problem. That problem would be solved by splitting the current div. 1 into 2 divisions, right?
I highly doubt that CG aim to make completely even matches. I doubt that removing the incentive to build your roster stronger (and hence also the incentive to spend money) fits their business model.
You pointed out that big differences in total GP is a problem. That problem would be solved by splitting the current div. 1 into 2 divisions, right?
I highly doubt that CG aim to make completely even matches. I doubt that removing the incentive to build your roster stronger (and hence also the incentive to spend money) fits their business model.
2 divisions wouldn't solve the problem at this point. Even if the range of divisions spread more as new divisions are added, right now the range is 4.5m to 8m. I expect CG to drag it as long as they can and only do 2 when they do it since each division means having to give out more rewards for them.