How would you fix GL imbalance?

Replies

  • Slaveen
    462 posts Member
    Pre-SLKR buff: finished 1/2 every day with Rey.

    Post-SLKR buff: Can hardly penetrate top 10. I’m not doing anything wrong. You can’t beat a toon who is literally immune to damage for 4 turns in a row who can wipe your team, including your Galactic Legend, in two of his turns.
  • Tezza23
    88 posts Member
    They already have , they gave kylo the buff he desperately needed to defeat Rey . Didn’t see this many posts about balance when kylo was garbage. Kylo is stuck with fo to make his team work whereas Rey can mix and match so many legendaries to dramatically change her team . My arena 15 Rey 5 kylo in top 20 top ten 8 Rey , my kylo gets killed in a minute and a half by Rey users so if you cant kill kylo you are doing something very wrong.
  • Nitrogen
    111 posts Member
    Tezza23 wrote: »
    They already have , they gave kylo the buff he desperately needed to defeat Rey . Didn’t see this many posts about balance when kylo was garbage. Kylo is stuck with fo to make his team work whereas Rey can mix and match so many legendaries to dramatically change her team . My arena 15 Rey 5 kylo in top 20 top ten 8 Rey , my kylo gets killed in a minute and a half by Rey users so if you cant kill kylo you are doing something very wrong.

    Kylo was ALWAYS better in PVE, the balance was Rey better in PVP Kylo better in PVE, seemed pretty balanced.

    You saying "Kylo is "stuck with FO" is the opposite of how I look at them. I would love it if Rey could be effective with an all Resistance team. You say "mix and match so many legendaries" to me means, messing up all your other GAC teams in order to make Rey effective.

  • Daishi
    699 posts Member
    Tezza23 wrote: »
    They already have , they gave kylo the buff he desperately needed to defeat Rey . Didn’t see this many posts about balance when kylo was garbage. Kylo is stuck with fo to make his team work whereas Rey can mix and match so many legendaries to dramatically change her team . My arena 15 Rey 5 kylo in top 20 top ten 8 Rey , my kylo gets killed in a minute and a half by Rey users so if you cant kill kylo you are doing something very wrong.

    In my Nov 2015 shard the SLKR users seem tod do just fine with a full FO team. Only Rey teams I see climbing thru SLKR have G13 Wat with them. Kinda funny how the LS leader needs a DS character to compete. Also show me ONE Rey team using a full resistance team in the meta report. You can't, because they dont work.

    As far as "stuck with FO" I see it as, you actually use the required characters for his unlock event to make his best team. That means a new player could just go all in on FO to make the top meta team. For someone to do that with Rey theyll need Rey requirements (which includes BB8 and JTR requirements which also means working on FO), plus theyll need old republic to unlock JKR, Seperatists and GR/GR padme to unlock GS, as well as a raid only character.

    Kylo has a fraction of the effort to actually get for a new player, is the strongest character, and can solo the only meaningful content (HSTR) for top end rewards.

    As far as the beginning with Tenacity up for 1 turn, that wont do anything... like NOTHING. Rey already gives her team crit immunity on her first turn, but you know what happens? Rey gives crit immunity, SLKR stuns GS, Hux TM swap with SLKR, SLKR AOE which weakens your team by siphon, hux goes again which then dispels all buffs on the opposing team. Pretty much the only way for any "buff" to be meaningful vs SLKR is for it to be a locked buff, or hux u.immediately dispels it.
  • Tezza23
    88 posts Member
    In arena you don’t mess any team up by mix and match , and with Luke Skywalker she has become much harder to beat . In grand arena you have the same choice as me to either use her for a certain win in attack or chance her for a possible 1 shot defeat in defence . In pve you are using her on light side geo the hardest PvE content out there so still very much a strong PVE character. If you are complaining about sith raid the answer is not to buff or debuff but to rework raids in general , marvel guilds work together , Star Wars guildS screw each other over .
  • RAYRAY
    2637 posts Member
    edited June 25
    Having just unlocked Rey, I am sad that I made the wrong choice. I was committed and couldn't shift gears though. Now to hear that there is going to be a fix to AI to make a reliable counter (on offense only) to beat Kylo go away, I am not sad but po'd. Kylo is great, fix any wonky AI and unintended consequences. BUT at the same time, give something to Rey to make her a reliable counter to Kylo without needing a broken AI. Maybe something like: All resisitance allies gain 10% offense, 10% speed, and 10% defense for each First Order enemy and if all allies are resistance they gain a locked tenacity up for 3 turns to start the match. Would that be enough to counter the Kylos team?
    ☮ Consular ☮ American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor) JedhaYavin IV
  • Daishi wrote: »
    Currently Rey has several 60 banner counters due to her defensive kit. She wastes her initial turns with a buff that is easily countered and worked around, while Kylo first turn is always a 2 turn locked stun creating a 5v4 situation out the gate. Kylo has nothing approaching a 60 banner counter, plus hes a monster in the highest gear reward activity in the game (HSTR).
    So how would YOU fix this imbalance?

    My suggestion is 2 small kit changes to rey.
    1: Add to leadership "Light side allies are immune to fear and damage over time effects".

    Kylo is immune to taunt effects to make him hard to counter. This would give Rey parity in PvP and fit her defensive build.

    2: Add to her ultimate, "When in ultimate stance, light side allies are immune to critical hits"

    Again this fits her defensive build and makes her ultimate meaningful.

    This is the biggest whale crybaby post I’ve ever seen. You can mod or structure Rey teams differently to counter Vader if you’re this upset about it. Get over yourself and let 99% of the player base have some hope for a change.
  • Not introduce them to begin with? Let's be honest, this game wasn't suited for them just yet. Sure, they can be beat but every other aspect in this game will be dictated by these 2 toons. Hopefully the road ahead will shed some light on the future plans.

    But as far as the current issue. Tough call. I don't have them but if I were a Rey owner I'd be kind of discouraged that's for sure. SLKR Kylo is just the better option. At the very least give her some dang raid bonuses because the top 10 hstr rewards alone put her in the back if the to do list. Curious to see how CG and guilds handle this soon to be big problem.
  • Daishi wrote: »
    Currently Rey has several 60 banner counters due to her defensive kit. She wastes her initial turns with a buff that is easily countered and worked around, while Kylo first turn is always a 2 turn locked stun creating a 5v4 situation out the gate. Kylo has nothing approaching a 60 banner counter, plus hes a monster in the highest gear reward activity in the game (HSTR).
    So how would YOU fix this imbalance?

    My suggestion is 2 small kit changes to rey.
    1: Add to leadership "Light side allies are immune to fear and damage over time effects".

    Kylo is immune to taunt effects to make him hard to counter. This would give Rey parity in PvP and fit her defensive build.

    2: Add to her ultimate, "When in ultimate stance, light side allies are immune to critical hits"

    Again this fits her defensive build and makes her ultimate meaningful.

    The 2nd one makes sense as it reduces the kylo crit train. Though to be honest, I'm not sure why damage is 1 hp anyway... seems silly not to just be immune all-together.

    As for the first, I rather see buffs to some other resistance characters.

    As one example, a change to Holdo's unique something like this:

    When another Resistance ally loses Foresight, Amilyn Holdo gains Taunt for 1 turn and Recovers 20% Health and 20% Protection. While Amilyn Holdo doesn't have Taunt, she has +50 Speed and all other Resistance allies have Critical Hit Immunity.


  • Daishi
    699 posts Member
    Daishi wrote: »
    Currently Rey has several 60 banner counters due to her defensive kit. She wastes her initial turns with a buff that is easily countered and worked around, while Kylo first turn is always a 2 turn locked stun creating a 5v4 situation out the gate. Kylo has nothing approaching a 60 banner counter, plus hes a monster in the highest gear reward activity in the game (HSTR).
    So how would YOU fix this imbalance?

    My suggestion is 2 small kit changes to rey.
    1: Add to leadership "Light side allies are immune to fear and damage over time effects".

    Kylo is immune to taunt effects to make him hard to counter. This would give Rey parity in PvP and fit her defensive build.

    2: Add to her ultimate, "When in ultimate stance, light side allies are immune to critical hits"

    Again this fits her defensive build and makes her ultimate meaningful.

    The 2nd one makes sense as it reduces the kylo crit train. Though to be honest, I'm not sure why damage is 1 hp anyway... seems silly not to just be immune all-together.

    As for the first, I rather see buffs to some other resistance characters.

    As one example, a change to Holdo's unique something like this:

    When another Resistance ally loses Foresight, Amilyn Holdo gains Taunt for 1 turn and Recovers 20% Health and 20% Protection. While Amilyn Holdo doesn't have Taunt, she has +50 Speed and all other Resistance allies have Critical Hit Immunity.

    The problem with any buff is Hux. Really the thing that makes SLKR teams hard to counter in general is Hux. He dispels all debuffs on all enemies, he gives bonus TM swap, he blocks TM generation by enemy, and he is super fast. You really need something on the resistance side that neuters hux to have any hope of countering reliably. You need locked buffs that can't be dispelled, and maybe a locked buff immunity AOE debuff that would block FO from the renewing advantage which is the other part that makes Kylo impossible to counter, they all always have advantage due to how many of their kits give advantage. Advantage now makes them all immune to crit, and makes the tanks permataunt. You dispel the taunt, it dispels the advantage which SLKR reapplies if it was dispelled, which then reapplies the taunt.
  • Daishi
    699 posts Member
    Maybe new character... Resistance counter-intelligence officer. Unique: If any Kylo and Hux are on a team together Kylo kills Hux at the start of battle.
    :smiley:
  • Easy.
    Whilst Rey has another ally with the inspire buff, she has a 70% chance to dispel a stacking debuff...

    Whilst it might be slightly harder to code, but it would mean that, say Vader inflicts his dots, they have a 70% chance to be dispelled, for each debuff...

    This, in turn, wouldn’t made Vader a useless counter,but you would need other debuffs on her to ramp up the damage

    Or there could be

    Add a tenacity buff for one turn to all allies whenever she uses lifeblood.
    This can be dispelled, same with the crit immunity
  • Put Kylo how he was before because nothing was wrong with him. Make him immune to cooldown reduction when he's alone to stop the Gas+1 team, like you should have from the beginning. His buff was an overcorrection, and buffing Rey to keep up is more of the same.
  • Daishi
    699 posts Member
    Easy.
    Whilst Rey has another ally with the inspire buff, she has a 70% chance to dispel a stacking debuff...

    Whilst it might be slightly harder to code, but it would mean that, say Vader inflicts his dots, they have a 70% chance to be dispelled, for each debuff...

    This, in turn, wouldn’t made Vader a useless counter,but you would need other debuffs on her to ramp up the damage

    Or there could be

    Add a tenacity buff for one turn to all allies whenever she uses lifeblood.
    This can be dispelled, same with the crit immunity

    @Mastersbgames Did you mean CAN'T be dispelled? Because hux dispel is what makes the current crit immunity worthless. Yes if someone is silly enough to run Kylo without hux is much easier to counter by a lot of teams. His crit immunity built into his kit since his first touchup/rework does still stop a lot of counters.

    Also dispelling DOTs doesn't do anything, since often it's a vader lead team, and vader lead blocks DOTs from being dispelled. They just reappear.

    What you propose would change nothing at all to slow the vader counter, and wouldn't help when fighting SLKR. In reality what we need is something like IPD or B2 for LS that does a dispel and blocks buffs to help counter SLKR by being able to dispel all the advantage/taunts, and block buffs so that the leadership can't reapply the advantage which renews the taunt. LS could also benefit from someone like Thrawn or Traya, or Wat. Simply put LS lacks most of the utility that DS has. You suffer with Rey when you put DS allies on the team since her leadership doesn't support or protect them. If they're not gonna fix rey herself, they need to QUICKLY release (and tell us about them even faster) LS characters with similar utility to Thrawn/Traya/Wat. If there was a LS version of any of those characters it would help greatly. A LS fracture/TM swap character would help us get around the taunt to get to SLKR before he can ramp up. A LS IPD/B2 that would mass dispel and apply buff immunity would do the same.

    LS teams shouldn't have to resort to mixing 4 metas to make a semi-comperable team, and DEFINATELY shouldn't be relying on DS characters (Wat) to make the team work.
  • Needing wat (as we will after the 5s strat is nerfed) for the best version of the team isn't really a problem IMO. I'm fine with using 1 off-faction toon. (as most SLKs seem to do with Malak) The problem is Rey has no good way around a 2 taunt team and the team damage is insanely low. Low damage wouldn't be a problem if they were super tanky, but vs SLKR + red SIT even a 210k HP Rey doesn't provided enough survivability to keep people alive reliably.

    She needs more damage, more tank, or both. It *might* be enough if they just stopped SLKR from gaining ult charge while in ult stance to prevent him from chaining ults or allowed Rey to gain ult charge in ult stance so that she also could chain ults.
  • Daishi
    699 posts Member
    hamfisted wrote: »
    Needing wat (as we will after the 5s strat is nerfed) for the best version of the team isn't really a problem IMO. I'm fine with using 1 off-faction toon. (as most SLKs seem to do with Malak) The problem is Rey has no good way around a 2 taunt team and the team damage is insanely low. Low damage wouldn't be a problem if they were super tanky, but vs SLKR + red SIT even a 210k HP Rey doesn't provided enough survivability to keep people alive reliably.

    She needs more damage, more tank, or both. It *might* be enough if they just stopped SLKR from gaining ult charge while in ult stance to prevent him from chaining ults or allowed Rey to gain ult charge in ult stance so that she also could chain ults.

    You just compared using Malak on SLKR to using Wat... using Malak, a darkside character on a DS team is more like Rey using GS. Imagine if to have an effective SLKR team to counter Rey you needed Traya, GS, DR, and Malak, and the full FO team was totally useless.
  • Daishi wrote: »
    You just compared using Malak on SLKR to using Wat... using Malak, a darkside character on a DS team is more like Rey using GS. Imagine if to have an effective SLKR team to counter Rey you needed Traya, GS, DR, and Malak, and the full FO team was totally useless.

    I don't really have a problem with mixing light and dark side for PVP. The real problem with mixing is that Rey doesn't provide protection to DS toons, which makes them vastly weaker under Rey than I would prefer. Poe also can't inspire them, which is a problem.

    Don't get me wrong, Rey is **** awful when compared to SLKR. Great kit that is just totally outmatched in every aspect of the game. She desperately needs to be tweaked.
  • NataPda
    32 posts Member
    Agree. light sight allies quickly die after 2nd ultimate, Rey - after 3rd. Kylo heals himself with his aoe much better while Rey is losing hp with lifeblood (it's needed for WW) and she get so few healing using her basics.
  • Daishi wrote: »
    Easy.
    Whilst Rey has another ally with the inspire buff, she has a 70% chance to dispel a stacking debuff...

    Whilst it might be slightly harder to code, but it would mean that, say Vader inflicts his dots, they have a 70% chance to be dispelled, for each debuff...

    This, in turn, wouldn’t made Vader a useless counter,but you would need other debuffs on her to ramp up the damage

    Or there could be

    Add a tenacity buff for one turn to all allies whenever she uses lifeblood.
    This can be dispelled, same with the crit immunity

    @Mastersbgames Did you mean CAN'T be dispelled? Because hux dispel is what makes the current crit immunity worthless. Yes if someone is silly enough to run Kylo without hux is much easier to counter by a lot of teams. His crit immunity built into his kit since his first touchup/rework does still stop a lot of counters.

    Also dispelling DOTs doesn't do anything, since often it's a vader lead team, and vader lead blocks DOTs from being dispelled. They just reappear.

    What you propose would change nothing at all to slow the vader counter, and wouldn't help when fighting SLKR. In reality what we need is something like IPD or B2 for LS that does a dispel and blocks buffs to help counter SLKR by being able to dispel all the advantage/taunts, and block buffs so that the leadership can't reapply the advantage which renews the taunt. LS could also benefit from someone like Thrawn or Traya, or Wat. Simply put LS lacks most of the utility that DS has. You suffer with Rey when you put DS allies on the team since her leadership doesn't support or protect them. If they're not gonna fix rey herself, they need to QUICKLY release (and tell us about them even faster) LS characters with similar utility to Thrawn/Traya/Wat. If there was a LS version of any of those characters it would help greatly. A LS fracture/TM swap character would help us get around the taunt to get to SLKR before he can ramp up. A LS IPD/B2 that would mass dispel and apply buff immunity would do the same.

    LS teams shouldn't have to resort to mixing 4 metas to make a semi-comperable team, and DEFINATELY shouldn't be relying on DS characters (Wat) to make the team work.

    No, I didn’t mean can’t be dispelled. Why would I?
    From this, you need to mod in a specific way anyway. I understand that some (if not most) have their hux as the second fastest, but seeing as I can only go off first hand experience, I can say that having Vader wipe out a character on your team before yours have a go, due to Vader being second s a massive pain

    Also, in regards to your second point, this would neuter it. Yes, under Vader lead, the DOTS reapply, but Rey would take precedence over that and dispel them.
  • @John_Matrix1985
    The only thing they need to do is allow a sim of the hstr. A solo can hardly gets you top 20 these days

    Nice brag.

    Even if you had 21 SLKR's in your guild, because people can't be constantly available to hit the raid, I'd be shocked if an actual solo (not, "I could have solo'd it, but was busy" - an actual solo) fell out of the top 10 more than 25% of the time.

    And, of course, needless to say that vast, vast majority of people are not in guilds with 21 SLKRs. The vast majority of folks aren't even in guilds with 200M gp.

    Say what you want, of course, but you should know you look quite a lot like someone wearing their own bum for a hat.

  • Nitrogen
    111 posts Member
    hamfisted wrote: »
    ... The problem is Rey has no good way around a 2 taunt team and the team damage is insanely low. Low damage wouldn't be a problem if they were super tanky, but vs SLKR + red SIT even a 210k HP Rey doesn't provided enough survivability to keep people alive reliably.

    She needs more damage, more tank, or both. It *might* be enough if they just stopped SLKR from gaining ult charge while in ult stance to prevent him from chaining ults or allowed Rey to gain ult charge in ult stance so that she also could chain ults.

    If they reversed the ult charges - Rey can gain ults in stance and SLK can not that might be a very elegant, simple solution.

  • Nitrogen
    111 posts Member
    After saying that... it also might make mirror matches a total nightmare.
  • Someone touched on Inspired granting 3 instances of crit immunity instead. I think that would be a rather elegant step in the right direction. They could just tweak rhP's zeta to that instead of the garbage it is now.

    GLR teams would still be missing a reliable taunting tank. So maybe a small adjustment to Holdo/JTR or a tweak to GLR that enables the actual resistance tanks to be worth a **** on the new resistance team.
  • Nitrogen
    111 posts Member
    Someone touched on Inspired granting 3 instances of crit immunity instead. I think that would be a rather elegant step in the right direction. They could just tweak rhP's zeta to that instead of the garbage it is now.

    GLR teams would still be missing a reliable taunting tank. So maybe a small adjustment to Holdo/JTR or a tweak to GLR that enables the actual resistance tanks to be worth a **** on the new resistance team.

    The fact that resistance has zero good taunting tanks while FO has two is pretty ridiculous.
  • TVF
    24403 posts Member
    They helped Rey owners by releasing Luke.

    Too bad people assumed he was trash.
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  • TVF wrote: »
    They helped Rey owners by releasing Luke.

    Too bad people assumed he was trash.

    Yes. That will be very "helpful" for most Rey owners... in 3 months.
    So yet again, SLK is great with his required farms. GLR needs to draw yet another toon from another A-tier team to keep up with him.
  • TVF
    24403 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    They helped Rey owners by releasing Luke.

    Too bad people assumed he was trash.

    Yes. That will be very "helpful" for most Rey owners... in 3 months.
    So yet again, SLK is great with his required farms. GLR needs to draw yet another toon from another A-tier team to keep up with him.

    Hey if SLKR owners are allowed to laugh at Rey owners, then I'm at least allowed to laugh at non-JKL owners.

    But really I'm just laughing at everyone who complained about how bad Luke looked.
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  • TVF wrote: »
    But really I'm just laughing at everyone who complained about how bad Luke looked.

    Then go start a new thread for that. I know plenty of GLR owners that wanted JKL pretty bad (raises hand) but had no chance for a 1st showing unlock.
  • TVF
    24403 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    But really I'm just laughing at everyone who complained about how bad Luke looked.

    Then go start a new thread for that. I know plenty of GLR owners that wanted JKL pretty bad (raises hand) but had no chance for a 1st showing unlock.

    Why did you have no chance?
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