Who thinks TW Match Making works well?

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Natetiffer
143 posts Member
edited July 2020
I have been observing the matchmaking on TW for the last few months and it just does not add up. Wins and losses aside, does TW Matchmaking really work?
Are you regularly matched against a Guild that has >10% more GP than your Guild
Are you regularly matched against a Guild that has significantly more Meta's/GL's than your Guild?
Are you regularly matched against a Guild with lower combatants which means they have a higher average GP per player

Fair to me means the same number of Players (give or take 1) have entered TW in each guild and the GP of the players entered is within 2%
so if 30 players with a combined GP of 100M entered in one guild they should be matched against a guild with 29, 30 or 31 with a combined GP of 98m - 102m

It is true, a mismatch does not necessarily mean you will lose if you are the receiving end but that is not the point here, the point is we want CG to review the match making again and involve the players in that process

Who thinks TW Match Making works well? 96 votes

Yes, I am fairly matched > 90% of the time
9% 9 votes
Yes, I am fairly matched > 75% of the time
4% 4 votes
I think matching works around 50% of the time
25% 24 votes
No, I am unfairly matched > 75% of the time
23% 23 votes
No, I am unfairly matched > 90% of the time
33% 32 votes
I don't really look that closely and so have no opinion
4% 4 votes
This is the Way
Post edited by Natetiffer on

Replies

  • You should probably put some definition around what you mean by “works well.” It’s hard to tell sometimes if it’s a guild not being led well vs underperforming vs poor matchmaking when we win big. My guild usually gets good participation even in losses, so it’s easier to see if we were mismatched or sandbagged in losses.
  • @Scuttlebutt is on the money.

    Mismatches happen. I’m not disputing that. But there are definitely guilds out there who are weak at PvP and complain about matchups that they could well win with some decent strategy.
  • @Scuttlebutt is on the money.

    Mismatches happen. I’m not disputing that. But there are definitely guilds out there who are weak at PvP and complain about matchups that they could well win with some decent strategy.

    Made an edit, happy to take the feedback! I just want CG to acknowledge
    This is the Way
  • CCyrilS
    5398 posts Member
    I appreciate the way you are going about this, and I don't even necessarily think your idea is bad. Your constructive approach is commendable.

    That being said, MM is fine and it's better to adapt to it than to expect it to adapt to you.
  • Referring to a quote on my other post:
    Anyway, it’s not worth continuing this, because I agree that matchmaking needs changed to match active GP AND number of signed up players +/- 1.

    This is what I want! 34 people join in a 50 strong guild, guild has 100mgp, the 34 has 68m
    they should be matched against 33, 34, 35 that has 68m GP give or take 2%

    This has not happened in our TW with this current guild ever!

    Yes, we are adapting and trying to find new ways for defence and offence, we review counters and to be honest we have got close a few times. But I do disagree with the statement MM is fine. But happy to agree to disagree. I am sure time will tell.

    I thought a Poll might just help me see if it is the minority impacted or not...
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  • The last two TW saw us matched with guild that had SIGNIFICANTLY stronger players. Last guild had 4 GL on defense (we have none) The prior war had 2 GL. Needless to say we lost both. I have nothing nice to say about the matching in this game.
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  • Natetiffer
    143 posts Member
    edited July 2020
    GUILD 49 MEMBERS 111m vs GUILD 47 MEMBERS correction they have 130m (3 Mercs left 19m)
    42 Join 36 Join
    avg 2,233,521 avg 2,765,957
    HMMMMMM
    Post edited by Natetiffer at 7:2
    Post edited by Natetiffer on
    This is the Way
  • cenql9wnrfs8.png

    I know not many have voted but I think the pattern is obvious...
    This is the Way
  • TVF
    29611 posts Member
    People that think things aren't working well are more likely to voice their opinion.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    30042 posts Moderator
    Natetiffer wrote: »
    cenql9wnrfs8.png

    I know not many have voted but I think the pattern is obvious...

    unfortunately a poll like this doesn't capture enough of the picture to show a pattern.

    all of your questions in the post are great and help paint the picture, but the choices on the poll don't capture that.

    also there is a bias that players who lose are likely to also feel like it was more of a mismatch than if they won.

    in general this topic is complicated/nuanced to really capture it in a poll.
  • @Kyno
    I know but got to try...

    Latest tw the guild had 163m Vs our 110 and the matching gave 15 spots to fill on defence. So we had 41 join they had maybe 30... We never really stood a chance.

    Something doesn't feel right to me
    This is the Way
  • It has been a rare case that both our guild and the opposing guild have been in the match all the way to near the end. Most of the time it is a mismatch with either our guild running all over our opponent or the other way around.

    One of the problems is that speed mods do not seem as weighted as high as they should be. When there is a discrepancy of say 1000 or more 10+ speed mods between one guild and the other, you have a fairly good idea which guild is going to win.
  • TVF
    29611 posts Member
    Mods aren't weighted one bit afaik, nor should they be.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • From what has been said on the forum previously the matching works based on GP of guild members joined at the end of the join window and that's it. There doesn't appear to be anything else. So if 40 join with 90m from one guild and 30 or 32 or 35 or 39 join from another guild but their joined GP is also 90m that's the match.

    One end of the range is fair the other is not

    p1alyt1cf1r6.jpg
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  • IMHO the TW matchmaking is absolute garbage. We get matched with GLs and no one in our guild is even close to owning one. FTP is yet again the scum on the bottom of the boot.
  • Nikoms565
    14114 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    IMHO the TW matchmaking is absolute garbage. We get matched with GLs and no one in our guild is even close to owning one. FTP is yet again the scum on the bottom of the boot.

    I agree that TW matchmaking is absolute garbage (we've been on both sides of it - this one we have 23 GLs vs. 44 - amazingly, there are 22 defensive slots - two times ago we had 22, our opponents had 6). However, it's not a f2p vs. p2p issue. Many f2p players have GLs. It's just bad matchmaking. Period. There is no need to confuse the issue.
    Post edited by Nikoms565 on
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  • The latest in our recent string of being screwed by matchmaking. Over the past 3 months this has been a good example of our matchup over 90% of the time. It's been too consistent for too long for this just to be bad luck.

    7esv8r3gt0jt.png
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  • Chilichimp
    16 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    War matchmaking is trash, because it doesn't take into account player-count other than to limit defensive deploys, but there's only a finite number of strong defensive/good counter offensive teams. This doesn't wind up being a handicap for the sandbagging guilds, but a boon.
  • Agreed. Match making needs to be fixed immediately. Our guild is always on the losing end of this ridiculousness. In the most recent match. Our "opponents" cleared ALL of our defense. We couldn't even clear 1/2 of one of their front row territories. They had Galactic Legends on Defense. We barely have any 7 star Malaks. How can we compete against level of mismatch. It's a waste of time to put any effort or thought into setting defenses and deciding what to hold back for attacks. If I'm going to be the Washington Generals, I'm going to find something better to do with my time.
  • Unfortunately @CG_Doja_Fett has probably already got his hands full...

    We experience this still and lost the last two TW's to guilds that outweighed us. I think more people need to actually flag the mismatch which may help with some analysis, but in essence the process is not looking at average or better still a weighted average GP.

    Active GP is a flawed methodology if the opponent has 10 more or 10 less active players. Active GP and number of players should match: 42 @ 110m vs 41 @ with 111m is a good match. 42 @ 110m vs 32 @ 111m is a bad match!

    I have friends in a guild that were outmatched on paper but cleared the board, only because the opponent set less than half their defence, this result doesn't help understand if there is a genuine mismatch
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  • Natetiffer wrote: »
    Unfortunately @CG_Doja_Fett has probably already got his hands full...

    We experience this still and lost the last two TW's to guilds that outweighed us. I think more people need to actually flag the mismatch which may help with some analysis, but in essence the process is not looking at average or better still a weighted average GP.

    Active GP is a flawed methodology if the opponent has 10 more or 10 less active players. Active GP and number of players should match: 42 @ 110m vs 41 @ with 111m is a good match. 42 @ 110m vs 32 @ 111m is a bad match!

    I have friends in a guild that were outmatched on paper but cleared the board, only because the opponent set less than half their defence, this result doesn't help understand if there is a genuine mismatch
    This is a valid point.

    Some guilds give up on their TW, possibly out of protest or possibly just down to sheer apathy. This happens more I imagine at lower levels than it does at high GP levels.

    The devs could be misled if they solely look at the outcome of wars when ascertaining whether or not a matchup was fair. Some perfectly fair matches are won by a landslide, whilst some mismatches finish relatively closely.
  • It's like players in GAC who join but don't compete, they get rewards and no effort but can mess up the opponent's chances of completing the bonus feats...

    As we either come first or second and we all get rewards! So the issue here is more around the enjoyment of the game. We have lost our last two TW but we had a laugh, even seeing how many attempts we could rack up on one squad just for a meme! But players are leaving the game...

    Maybe TW should work on a Division basis like GAC??? Would that help at all???

    Thank you @DarjeloSalas

    This is the Way
  • Natetiffer wrote: »
    Maybe TW should work on a Division basis like GAC??? Would that help at all???
    In theory, it could. Like once you hit 300m for example, you are locked in a certain bracket and can't fight a 220m guild even if 12 players miss a TW sign up and your active GP is ~220m. It would be more likely to have shorthanded guilds face eachother.

    However, seeing how divisions become outdated relatively quickly, this would be something to be updated as the game progresses, otherwise situation in the highest TW division would be very similar to what's happening now above 250m within a few months/ maybe a year.
  • Natetiffer
    143 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Our 44 @ 122m
    Vs
    Their 28 @ c.122m

    Do the math their average squad size

    cc468ws9odop.jpg
    vri1hxnslm4m.jpg

    Win or lose this shows matchmaking on active GP alone doesn't work
    @CG_Doja_Fett please help, you're our only hope
    This is the Way
  • Hortus
    512 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Let me show you something. On the screen - the most closest TW result for our guild for ages. Our join number was 35+ (don't remember exactly), their - you can guess from squad count. As you can see, we won. While "only active GP matters in matchmaking" theories don't give us a chance, we should be crushed here. While the results on the picture are what we see in several dozens matchups.

    Yes, those matches where we have much more more people joined than opponents tends to be harder. But we never, ever seen any "overwhelming" matchups which community theories about MM algorithms predicts for such difference. Even few fights we lost were very close and we certainly could win if people followed orders better and made less errors on choosing counters.

    The MM algorithm works differently for our guild than for the rest of world? I highly doubt it. The community is missing something in their theories about how it works (because complains mostly come from people who lose and therefore observation base is biased)? For me, it seems very likely.3zh0ysap283a.jpg
    Post edited by Hortus on
  • @Hortus
    We have had wins and losses very similar to yours above... We just want to bring it to CG's attention that something doesn't seem right.!!

    These sorts of wins actually give the guild a real boost of satisfaction... But it also disheartens along the way. This isn't a bitter we always lose post, because we do win! It is just that it doesn't seem to be working in the way it is expected...

    I like your example, it helps, and I truly appreciate you taking the time.

    And you never know, we might win ours yet B)
    This is the Way
  • tdtwiggy wrote: »
    The latest in our recent string of being screwed by matchmaking. Over the past 3 months this has been a good example of our matchup over 90% of the time. It's been too consistent for too long for this just to be bad luck.

    7esv8r3gt0jt.png

    If your average arena rank as a guild is over 500 that explains a whole lot of your TW problems.
  • Gifafi
    5516 posts Member
    Don’t really care, it’s tw, but seems ok overall
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Kisakee
    1462 posts Member
    Nope, matchmaking isn't fair at all. And sometimes it's not even fun but a massacre.
    23tkbangaztz.png
    Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid.
  • Well we lost as expected but for a short while we thought we were going to pull it off... We are new to having GL's and our top player but his SEE on defence they took it out with 1 attempt. Their top player had 2 GL's at leat.

    The only consolation was we got 2 zeta's for losing instead of one...

    One of our recent recruits, a long time player quit today, said the game just isn't fun anymore. We've seen this a lot in recent weeks...

    I know not everyone thinks tw is unfair, it's great to hear that it works well for others. It would be great if the unfair matches were a minority.

    I do find the game frustrating at times but my love of star wars keeps me going. Stay safe everyone, let's keep the conversation polite and keep it going. Thanks everyone for sharing...

    This is the Way!
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