Who thinks TW Match Making works well?

Replies

  • Kisakee wrote: »
    Nope, matchmaking isn't fair at all. And sometimes it's not even fun but a massacre.
    23tkbangaztz.png

    Could you post some more information? A screenshot taken 8 hours into a war doesn’t tell us anything.
  • Natetiffer wrote: »
    Well we lost as expected but for a short while we thought we were going to pull it off... We are new to having GL's and our top player but his SEE on defence they took it out with 1 attempt. Their top player had 2 GL's at leat.

    If you have only few GLs I'd suggest don't put them on the defense. Any of them have relatively cheap counters and good players won't have trouble with few numbers of them (GLs wall is another story). On the other side, all GLs are offensive beasts so every GL is basically guarantied win (sometimes undersized) against top opponent's teams.
  • Could you post some more information? A screenshot taken 8 hours into a war doesn’t tell us anything.

    What exactly you want to know? That we had more GP, more General Skywalkers, more Reys, more Kylos? Or that they managed to clear only two territories in total while half of us hardly couldn't join the fight as there was nothing left?
    We're no hardcore guild, we only expect participation but don't judge someone on their outcome as long as they give their best. We haven't lost a single TW for months now and were nowhere close to do so. Okay, we may have a good strategy and discipline is above average (whatever this is measured on) but this time it wasn't even a fight. It was a massacre, our opponent never stood a chance. Winning is fun and all but only if you have a worthy enemy.
    "Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid."
    - Grand Admiral Thrawn
  • Kisakee wrote: »
    Could you post some more information? A screenshot taken 8 hours into a war doesn’t tell us anything.

    What exactly you want to know? That we had more GP, more General Skywalkers, more Reys, more Kylos? Or that they managed to clear only two territories in total while half of us hardly couldn't join the fight as there was nothing left?
    We're no hardcore guild, we only expect participation but don't judge someone on their outcome as long as they give their best. We haven't lost a single TW for months now and were nowhere close to do so. Okay, we may have a good strategy and discipline is above average (whatever this is measured on) but this time it wasn't even a fight. It was a massacre, our opponent never stood a chance. Winning is fun and all but only if you have a worthy enemy.

    Yes, those are the stats that make the case even more compelling that the devs need to do something about this.

    The issue with the map picture is that it leaves lots left unstated. In a global game, I'm sure there are many TW maps that look horribly one-sided after 8 hours, especially if one guild is predominantly based in East Asia.

    The other issue with map pictures is that perfectly fair matchups can end up looking horribly one sided too, either due to a lack of skill on one guild's part or a lack of engagement.

    As ever - I'm not disputing that there's an issue and definitely not questioning whether or not you were at a disadvantage in this war. Just recommending that you post something that conclusively demonstrates this, so the devs can't write it off.
  • Kisakee
    1648 posts Member
    Disadvantage? We were the ones holding all advantages in our hands and we obliterated our enemy without even trying. Their average rosters were not even close to ours, they lost before the fight even started.
    If the devs would finally match guilds max GPs and only participating people in step two we would see a total different outcome.
    "Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid."
    - Grand Admiral Thrawn
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kisakee wrote: »
    Disadvantage? We were the ones holding all advantages in our hands and we obliterated our enemy without even trying. Their average rosters were not even close to ours, they lost before the fight even started.
    If the devs would finally match guilds max GPs and only participating people in step two we would see a total different outcome.

    can you provide the numbers of how many joined and GPs of both guilds. This would also be helpful.
  • Kisakee wrote: »
    Disadvantage? We were the ones holding all advantages in our hands and we obliterated our enemy without even trying. Their average rosters were not even close to ours, they lost before the fight even started.
    If the devs would finally match guilds max GPs and only participating people in step two we would see a total different outcome.

    Oh yes. For some reason I didn't spot that you were the victors!

    Take care - somone will be on soon to decry you as a sandbagger!
  • Kisakee
    1648 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kisakee wrote: »
    Disadvantage? We were the ones holding all advantages in our hands and we obliterated our enemy without even trying. Their average rosters were not even close to ours, they lost before the fight even started.
    If the devs would finally match guilds max GPs and only participating people in step two we would see a total different outcome.

    can you provide the numbers of how many joined and GPs of both guilds. This would also be helpful.

    36 of us joined, we were at 235 mil GP at that point and they just below 205 mil.
    "Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid."
    - Grand Admiral Thrawn
  • Kisakee
    1648 posts Member
    We were 41 at that point with 235 mil GP. With 36 joined we stood with 206.34 mil GP at the front. This means we must have fought their entire guild while we on average had 5.73 mil GP and them only 4.1 mil GP per player. I don't understand how CG ever could consider this an even fight.
    "Never make the mistake of believing forbearance equates to acceptance, or that all positions are equally valid."
    - Grand Admiral Thrawn
  • Natetiffer
    290 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    NEW DAY
    NEW TW

    Post your stats:
    GUILD size = Number of Players & GP
    Opponent size = Number of Players & GP

    Number of players joined "your guild"
    Number of players joined "opposing guild"

    GP joined your guild
    GP joined opposing guild

    AVG GP joined your guild
    AVG GP joined opposing guild

    Keep it polite and friendly!

    Happy Battles Everyone!!!
    Post edited by Natetiffer on
    This is the Way
  • Natetiffer
    290 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    GUILD size = Number of Players & GP
    Scruffy Looking Belmont Clan 50 @ 129m
    Opponent 44 @144m

    Number of players joined SLBC = 44
    Number of players joined Opponent guild = 34 (17 Def x 2)
    GP joined SLBC 117m Avg GP 2.65m
    GP joined Opponent guild c. 117m Avg GP 3.44m
    vupzsa40u6c0.png

    Loss as expected
    Post edited by Natetiffer on
    This is the Way
  • Natetiffer
    290 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Guild I Know 47 @ 52.5m
    Opponent Guild 50 @ 86m

    Number of players joined IK = 41
    Number of players joined Opponent guild = 26 (13 Def x 2)
    GP joined IK 47.7m Avg GP 1.16m
    GP joined Opponent guild c. 48m Avg GP 1.84m

    Unexpected Win
    Post edited by Natetiffer on
    This is the Way
  • 21/11/2020 TW

    They join 43 or 44 ( deliberately to have easy TW vs low level guild? Who knows) We 48.

    Guild vs guild:

    wdsq8bjmb0v2.jpeg

    Opponent have more than 1000 G13 than us, 6000+ relic levels and much more GL. Maybe because they join 4 less than us only have 500+ g13 and 3000+ relic levels.

    As a protest against this very unfair matchmarking that it is happening in the last 3 TW and because the possibilities to win are 0%, we have decided to put only one only very bad team per player in defense:
    - All in attack to have some fun vs his GL and top teams
    - Opponent will not have fun, no top teams to win, no GL to beat, no fights means no fun.

    If all guilds with very unfair matchmarking like this one does the same... maybe CG will do something to fix it.
  • Natetiffer
    290 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    I was thinking we had our first fair match for some time as 40 of us joined and there were 20 defence slots. Our opponents overall guild GP was lower than ours but looked like a higher average per player. The tw was very close. We won but not by a huge amount.

    The only thought I had just now is they might have had more join and it was our 40 that restricted the number on defence to 40... So an unknown still.

    @Galadria75
    Yes, all we are asking for is a more in depth review. I think some of the matching is clearly based upon GP only and not number of players Joined as well...

    To be continued...
    This is the Way
  • Its worst for the guilds at 90-120 Million GP imo, when its not about who has the most relics, G12's, zetas etc but instead who has the most malaks, GAS' , new CLS team etc.

    At this bracket, it is easier for the system to be exploited. The higher brackets are fine imo
  • Hortus
    615 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Its worst for the guilds at 90-120 Million GP imo, when its not about who has the most relics, G12's, zetas etc but instead who has the most malaks, GAS' , new CLS team etc.

    At this bracket, it is easier for the system to be exploited. The higher brackets are fine imo

    "Exploiting" assumes that people do it on purpose. While in most cases it just incomplete guilds, people slacking or have time issues, etc. Especially in the GP range you mentioned.

    Btw, another two examples.

    miz5dlau034l.jpg

    43vs28-29. In community theory, it should be overwhelming loss for us. In practice - extremely close loss.

    i0m40dmr3a2t.jpg

    33vs33+ . In theory, even or favored for us matchup. In practice, obvious loss.
  • I'm a guild officer for a guild with ~100m-110m these past 6 TWs. I use the bot for TW matches and the matchmaking is definitely more bad than good. Out of the last 6 TWs we have won 1. Why? Because of GLs. 5 of those 6 matches have been against opponents with at least 3 GLs, one opponent had 7 GLs... We have 0 GLs, 6 malaks (2 at 7*), 7 DRs, 1 GAS... You get the point. We have nothing that's going to blow away an opponent, but we do have good strategies and decent all-around rosters. The one TW we did win was against a team with 0 GLs that was very similar to our guild in terms of meta characters except with Traya and GG (they had 14 to our 7, and 47 to our 35, respectively). Before this stretch of 6 TWs, we were 3-1 because of good matchmaking (0 GLs in our opponents' squads, and fairly decent similarities with the other meta teams). I've spoken with some GL owners against whom we've had to fight and they say they're either taking a break from the hardcore TWs from their real guilds, or they are helping out a friend win a TW easily. I'm not against that at all, but if people are going to be doing that, at least pair them up against a similar guild with GLs.

    Also, I have seen what was mentioned previously where a guild had 33 players to our 45, but they all had really good rosters (all at 3m+ GP, multiple GASes, DRs, malaks, etc.). That's really not fair at all when we have some players at 700k GP joining TW.

    All in all, I'm not saying matchmaking is horrible, but it does need a lot of improvement. It's just too inconsistent in my opinion. A guild of 100m GP is basically a beginner, early mid-player guild. We are all f2p in my guild and play for fun. We should not be facing guilds with multiple GLs and 30+ DRs and Malaks at this point...
  • Natetiffer
    290 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    utqaxzfeib3y.png

    vs.

    4zy2k3uvd6pn.png

    43 Joined from I Know, 14 Territories to fill so 28/29 on Opponents Joined 56.7m
    so Avg:
    1.3m vs 2m

    Well it started well but I Know just don't have the High GP Squads, the opponent just tore through the weaker Guild.....

    On Scruffy Looking it looks like the 2nd Fair TW Match in a row...
    y3mue7984r4p.png

    vs.

    xj6znwbas4gv.png

    35 of us 18 defence spaces 107m joined... Only Time Will Tell

    Scruffy won and by quite a gap, GL's on Scruffy swung it but not sure how many of them Joined to say if it was truly fair
    Post edited by Natetiffer on
    This is the Way
  • It's just not funny any more...
    maybe time to quit wasting my time and money
    This is the Way
  • j1ev8oxeknfm.jpeg
    Sometimes it works really well.
  • @DarjeloSalas
    I'm glad. It is good to hear that some folk are still getting fair matches and enjoying the game. We had a 2k lead and now 3k behind.

    nyj4vpkif365.jpg
    This is the Way
  • 26 of them Vs 37 of us
    1.3m higher average per player

    Still broken
    This is the Way
  • Our guild is firmly in the 'TW match making is a complete joke' camp sadly.
    I'd expect for lower guild levels (no-one has GLs) or high end guilds (most probably have GLs, or multiples), match making may be ok. But in the middle zone such as we are at ~230M, we have many players 70-90% towards their GLs. Then we get matched against guilds with 30M more GP (typically going in short with ~42 players in TW), andfor those 10-15 players we have close to a GL, they all have theirs in the opponents' guild. That makes it ridiculously one-sided. Only twice in the last few months we had similar GLs, and we got a close win. Most of the time though we're outmatched horrendously with the opponent having 10+ more GLs.
    In GAC the matching algorithm can somewhat account for this in 1on1, but not in TW.
    Our guild is quickly losing interest.
    Very sad CG don't seem to want to address this.
  • Wimma wrote: »
    Our guild is firmly in the 'TW match making is a complete joke' camp sadly.
    I'd expect for lower guild levels (no-one has GLs) or high end guilds (most probably have GLs, or multiples), match making may be ok. But in the middle zone such as we are at ~230M, we have many players 70-90% towards their GLs. Then we get matched against guilds with 30M more GP (typically going in short with ~42 players in TW), andfor those 10-15 players we have close to a GL, they all have theirs in the opponents' guild. That makes it ridiculously one-sided. Only twice in the last few months we had similar GLs, and we got a close win. Most of the time though we're outmatched horrendously with the opponent having 10+ more GLs.
    In GAC the matching algorithm can somewhat account for this in 1on1, but not in TW.
    Our guild is quickly losing interest.
    Very sad CG don't seem to want to address this.

    I'm not sure if this exact type of problem (big real power increase between "close to GL" and "have GL" states with relatively low increase in any parameters which can be used for matchmaking) can be addressed at all.
  • I still think the main issue is when matching TW Active GP but the number of players joined is ignored then it's not going to be fair...

    Whilst we Have more GL's they just have loads of high GP players, we have a range of 400k to 5m

    Current status of our recent match, 5 hours left:
    US - 5605
    THEM - 10,808
    GUILDS :: US vs THEM
    Members :: 50 vs 34
    GP :: 143.0M vs 149.9M
    Avg Arena Rank :: 631.16 vs 341.94
    Avg Fleet Rank :: 189.68 vs 165.29
    Zetas :: 1864 vs 2918
    Ults :: 3 vs 2
    ACTIVE IN TW :: 37 vs 26

    they are 1.3m higher average per player

    I know there was some interest shown in what was happening but I and the guild are feeling quite fed up.

    @Kyno @CG_Doja_Fett
    This is the Way
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    @Natetiffer as we approach the new year, I dont expect things to happen int he near term right now. I will ping the specific dev who has been requesting the analysis, to see where they have gotten with this.
  • @Kyno
    Thank you...

    I honestly believe there's something not quite right and I know there's a fine balance between existing features and new content. We have been absolutely decimated the last few TW's and it is quite demotivating!

    Look forward to the New Year!!

    Merry Christmas
    This is the Way
  • Natetiffer
    290 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    jayum969ktji.jpg

    ra41x9wtx231.jpg
    Post edited by Natetiffer on
    This is the Way
  • Whoaa we got "All time best" TW pairing. Opponents have about double GLs (110 vs 60) and 1000 G13 characters more.

    Wonder how hard it is to do scoring system and matchmaker vs scores instead of GP or any fraction of GP. As GP for invidual characters are so horribly unbalanced. Pairing more succesfull vs eachother will eventually balance out. Carry win/lose score with each player so if changing guild at least results carry over with you. Forfeits are easy to count out to not mess out scores.

    Or simply count GL vs GL or G13 vs G13 and give it some balancing factor.

    Not that it was play at all but vs 4GL walls we managed to punch through 3 and pierce 4th to 3 deffers. And then clear fleets and backrows. Of course we were wiped fully.

    And of course it has happened other way around that we were way ahead. Losing is stupid but as is winning outright.

    -D
  • I'm a guild officer for a guild with ~100m-110m these past 6 TWs. I use the bot for TW matches and the matchmaking is definitely more bad than good. Out of the last 6 TWs we have won 1. Why? Because of GLs. 5 of those 6 matches have been against opponents with at least 3 GLs, one opponent had 7 GLs... We have 0 GLs, 6 malaks (2 at 7*), 7 DRs, 1 GAS... You get the point. We have nothing that's going to blow away an opponent, but we do have good strategies and decent all-around rosters. The one TW we did win was against a team with 0 GLs that was very similar to our guild in terms of meta characters except with Traya and GG (they had 14 to our 7, and 47 to our 35, respectively). Before this stretch of 6 TWs, we were 3-1 because of good matchmaking (0 GLs in our opponents' squads, and fairly decent similarities with the other meta teams). I've spoken with some GL owners against whom we've had to fight and they say they're either taking a break from the hardcore TWs from their real guilds, or they are helping out a friend win a TW easily. I'm not against that at all, but if people are going to be doing that, at least pair them up against a similar guild with GLs.

    Also, I have seen what was mentioned previously where a guild had 33 players to our 45, but they all had really good rosters (all at 3m+ GP, multiple GASes, DRs, malaks, etc.). That's really not fair at all when we have some players at 700k GP joining TW.

    All in all, I'm not saying matchmaking is horrible, but it does need a lot of improvement. It's just too inconsistent in my opinion. A guild of 100m GP is basically a beginner, early mid-player guild. We are all f2p in my guild and play for fun. We should not be facing guilds with multiple GLs and 30+ DRs and Malaks at this point...

    I'll tell you a "secret", people don't go through months of the very hard grind of GL just to be in the same situation- they do it to get an advantage.

    The matchmaking is set by the active gp of the participating players, not the gp of the entire guild. That mean each guild is match with a guild within the range of reasonable active gp. Now, what we do with our gp is entire up to us. We could have this gp from Tuskan or from Sith Empire, from Phoenix or from 501st (I go to the extream for the argument).
    You want to succeed more in TW/GAC/TB- develop more effective toons
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